General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWe Won't Get Fooled Again
Last edited Wed Feb 20, 2019, 08:53 AM - Edit history (1)
Meet the new Bern
Same as the old Bern
I am not now, nor have I ever been, a liberal Democrat New England Monthly, 1985
Democrats and Republicans are tweedle-dee and tweedle-dum New York Times, 1989
Why should we work within the Democratic Party if we dont agree with anything the Democratic Party says?
My own feeling is that the Democratic Party is ideologically bankrupt.
https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2016/2/6/1480860/--My-own-feeling-is-that-the-Democratic-Party-is-ideologically-bankrupt.htm
Do you consider yourself a Democrat? July 12, 2016
Right now, I am a Democrat obviously and were going to fight as hard as we can to transform the Democratic Party. So thats where I am right now.
Right now?
No. Its fair to say thats where I am and thats where Ill stay.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/07/28/bernie-sanders-party-affiliation-not-simple-question/87666494/
I am an independent and I have always run in Vermont as an independent October 23, 2017
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2017/10/23/bernie-sanders-i-am-an-independent/792186001/
My issue is not with the message but the messenger. In 2017, Sanders spoke for no one but himself. Its a matter of trust.
redstatebluegirl
(12,264 posts)He will get scrutiny this time he didn't get last time, that will terrify him.
bearsfootball516
(6,369 posts)He doesn't have the advantage of being the new face that comes out of nowhere and surprises everyone. In 2016, he ran as being super progressive compared to Hillary, but now, a lot of the serious candidates have stances very similar to him, so his positions on issues won't make him stand out like last time. And back in 2016, he was the ONLY other option if you were a Democrat and didn't really like Hillary. Now, if you don't like Harris, you can vote Biden or Booker or Warren or Castro or Gillibrand, etc. There are so many other options than just Bernie.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,153 posts)In fact, now we are going to find out just who was only hating on Sanders because of a party letter requirement, and who actually demeans him because they don't like progressive values, or are afraid of them, or think they are "undoable". Because now you've got a bunch of younger ones that have a D in front of their names so attacking their message won't be as easy, like you could the D-less Bernie. Policy is always more important than even what letter is in front of the name. Some the letter is more important, but I'll never understand that.
Its funny listening to some here that seem to be under the impression that its only a kind of cult of personality. Towards this old grumpy disheveled man who barks more than he speaks. NO...it has always been about his message. His principles. His shared vision for the country. Now that that is being shared by others coming up.....GREAT! Its probably time for Bernie to hang up his jacket anyways.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)2016 - Im staying a Democrat - 2017 Ive always been an Independent. The issue is one of trust, not what letter is after his name.
dalton99a
(81,065 posts)Hopefully he'll pivot and help Democrats
tinrobot
(10,848 posts)Doubtful.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)Maru Kitteh
(28,303 posts)That was so very gross.
honest.abe
(8,556 posts)Thanks for posting this.
sheshe2
(83,327 posts)akraven
(1,975 posts)Fighting in the street with our children at our feet... ...
crazytown
(7,277 posts)And history ain't changed
'Cause the banners
they are flown in the next war
Insanely great
akraven
(1,975 posts)and finally found a CD!
Years ago - this one still makes me cry:
crazytown
(7,277 posts)RAAD2
(95 posts)Same as the old boss.
$$$$$$$$
You cant buy Bernie.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)MH1
(17,537 posts)Doesn't matter which of the three, he won't get my vote again.
(I have no fear that he will get the Dem nomination so feel I can safely make that statement.)
I am referring to his too-late, too-tepid (by miles) "support" of Hillary as the nominee.
If he were a real leader we wouldn't have had so many of his "bros" (of both genders) refusing to vote for Hillary.
I'll move myself and my family aside
If we happen to be left half alive
I'll get all my papers and smile at the sky
For I know that the hypnotized never lie
Do ya?
There's nothing in the street
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
And the parting on the left
Is now the parting on the right
And the beards have all grown longer overnight
[Chorus]
I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
Don't get fooled again
NoMoreRepugs
(9,260 posts)The others in the field are newer and shinier. Just my opinion.
disillusioned73
(2,872 posts)NoMoreRepugs
(9,260 posts)disillusioned73
(2,872 posts)louis c
(8,652 posts)lame54
(35,134 posts)dlk
(11,432 posts)Third party candidates can't win sufficient electoral votes to win an election. They have, however, given us Republican presidents who have caused great harm. Speaking of steep learning curves...
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,861 posts)dlk
(11,432 posts)None of them had enough votes to win. Which part of that is false?
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,861 posts)Do you have numbers that show those voters would have voted Clinton?
I can speak to WI since it's my state, Clinton not showing up to campaign here was a much bigger factor than any third party candidate.
honest.abe
(8,556 posts)with her bogus attacks on Clinton. I remember during the Dem convention Stein was outside putting on a big show protesting and being interviewed by the media. That surely sucked away more than enough votes to give the election to Trump.
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,861 posts)In the world of politics and votes, we usually talk about things that are verifiable rather than opinion. I'm sure you think that, but it doesn't make it reality. And I really, really do not like Stein.
The far bigger impact, on WI at least, was that Clinton never came here.
honest.abe
(8,556 posts)Something wrong with that?
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,861 posts)Unless you have some data to back it up, it's all just opinion.
Though I will say that at the time people were telling Clinton she needed to go to WI or else she would lose it. So there is that in favor of my opinion.
honest.abe
(8,556 posts)That's what a discussion board is for. Right??
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"Though I will say that at the time people were telling Clinton she needed to go to WI or else she would lose it."
Post hoc ergo prompter hoc.
Cha
(295,899 posts)OFF about Hillary.. they would have voted for Hillary.
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)NotHardly
(1,062 posts)SammyWinstonJack
(44,129 posts)crazytown
(7,277 posts)angrychair
(8,593 posts)But in fairness to Senator Sanders, trying to paint him as being against Democrats by cherry-picking things he has said in the past is as much a false narrative as anything republicans say about Democrats.
If he was against Democrats why has he caucused with them for almost 30 years?
He has voted more with Democrats and Democratic Party planks than many actual Democrats.
He has done more to move forward serious debate on income inequality and minimum wage than most have in years.
I DO NOT support Sanders for president but I do support him as a senator of Vermont as long as he wants the job and his constituents keep voting for him and as a critical friend in our Senate Democratic caucus.
We all should.
CrossingTheRubicon
(731 posts)angrychair
(8,593 posts)Are you asking me something?
CrossingTheRubicon
(731 posts)My question is what was his alternative?
Was he going to be a party of one?
What sort of committee assignments could he have expected then?
Did BS caucus with Democrats because he is "for our party," or for his own purposes?
I understand you are not a BS supporter. I'm trying to explore your question.
angrychair
(8,593 posts)I would say his ideals are inherently little different than that Democratic Party planks.
His voting record shows him voting more with Democrats than most Democrats.
I would say it makes perfect sense to caucus with Democrats as they are of like mind.
He is a lot more likely to move forward aspects of his agenda (and he has, to his credit) when working with Democrats.
Nothing changes unless the majority sees the value in that change. Sanders can help move the agenda but he is not the answer. Its about more than one person. Its takes a unified movement like Harris and Warren and even AOC.
No one person has all the answers but hopefully working together we will get a little closer to real implementation of action on climate change, healthcare and education.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,153 posts)I also think he should not run again. But I'll never understand how people can just brush off decades of good work, alongside his longtime colleagues in the Democratic party, for decades. Like co-sponsoring the Medicare-for-All bill with Kamala Harris as an example.
But, hey, let's take the time, when we could be focusing on fighting Trump with Sanders and Democrats, to make a list of every past uncomfortable statement he's said in reference to the Democratic party. Some I'm sure were said in anger as well in moments of frustration with foot dragging on issues. Most was simple honest criticism. But lordy help us, we're too fragile to take criticism by anyone. We're perfect.
HE'S WORKING FOR THE GOOD GUYS FOLKS!!!
George II
(67,782 posts)spike jones
(1,654 posts)Then I'll get on my feet and say
We won't get fooled again
Won't get fooled again
No, no!
Meet the new boss
We are the new boss.
DoctorJoJo
(1,134 posts)Roy Rolling
(6,853 posts)Stop giving him free publicity.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)Quotes by Senator Sanders and nothing else. Says hes staying a Democrat in 2016, renegs in 2017. I dont trust him.
Cha
(295,899 posts)Important to remember history so it's Not repeated.
cstanleytech
(26,080 posts)to join.
Thats not to say he does not have good ideas at times however the facts are the facts no matter how anyone might wish different and in this case the fact is Bernie is an independent and not a Democrat.
moonseller66
(430 posts)There's a difference when you hear the correct word in the song. Nowhere does Roger Daltry say the word "won't."
He uses the word don't instead and it's misheard, misunderstood or wishfully changed nearly all the time.
The lyrics in question:
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
Don't get fooled again, no no
He's praying we DON'T get fooled again, not saying we Won't. We are basically an apathetic society but one that hopefully is learning. We've been fooled too many times and time and again we keep getting fooled such that it's become accepted that we will get fooled again.
Nit picking? Maybe. But there's a whole different meaning intermixing the two words while ignoring he plea.
Just a thought.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)The songs title is Wont get fooled again but the lyrics are more pessimistic - and some of the best lyrics ever written:
And the world looks just the same
And history ain't changed
'Cause the banners,
they are flown in the next war
The same sides, the same banners : history repeating.
lark
(23,003 posts)With apologies to whoever wrote "Stuck in the Middle".
With all the competition this time, think he'll struggle to be even get in the top 4, much less the top person. I know I'm totally done with him.
Of course, if he's the general candidate (he won't be) I will vote for him.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)impressed the hell out of me. Elizabeth is a warrior - here she showed heart.
lark
(23,003 posts)I really like her a lot too and am glad she's joined the race. We need her strong voice.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)I dont mean heal the divisions - no quarter given to MAGA at all, I mean sensitivity to the wounds, the pain so many have suffered through this monstrous presidency. Thats what I saw here. No I feel your pain or soothing words, but an open heart.
JuJuYoshida
(2,213 posts)trueblue2007
(17,138 posts)Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(107,063 posts)Cha
(295,899 posts)Kolohe
Response to crazytown (Original post)
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R B Garr
(16,920 posts)Response to R B Garr (Reply #59)
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R B Garr
(16,920 posts)Remember? (Republican Undergroundyour words)
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid