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crazytown

(7,277 posts)
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 11:06 AM Feb 2019

We Won't Get Fooled Again

Last edited Wed Feb 20, 2019, 08:53 AM - Edit history (1)

Meet the new Bern
Same as the old Bern


I am not now, nor have I ever been, a liberal Democrat New England Monthly, 1985

Democrats and Republicans are “tweedle-dee” and “tweedle-dum” New York Times, 1989

Why should we work within the Democratic Party if we don’t agree with anything the Democratic Party says?

My own feeling is that the Democratic Party is ideologically bankrupt.

https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2016/2/6/1480860/--My-own-feeling-is-that-the-Democratic-Party-is-ideologically-bankrupt.htm

Do you consider yourself a Democrat? July 12, 2016

Right now, I am a Democrat obviously and we’re going to fight as hard as we can to transform the Democratic Party. So that’s where I am right now.

Right now?
No. It’s fair to say that’s where I am and that’s where I’ll stay.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/07/28/bernie-sanders-party-affiliation-not-simple-question/87666494/

I am an independent and I have always run in Vermont as an independent October 23, 2017

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2017/10/23/bernie-sanders-i-am-an-independent/792186001/

My issue is not with the message but the messenger. In 2017, Sanders spoke for no one but himself. It’s a matter of trust.

72 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
We Won't Get Fooled Again (Original Post) crazytown Feb 2019 OP
Lord I hope so. redstatebluegirl Feb 2019 #1
He doesn't have nearly as much going for him now as he did in 2016 bearsfootball516 Feb 2019 #3
Yup. These dumb hit pieces on Sanders aren't even necessary. LiberalLovinLug Feb 2019 #38
Quoting Sanders is a hit piece? crazytown Feb 2019 #62
Youthful indiscretions dalton99a Feb 2019 #2
So... teach an old dog new tricks? tinrobot Feb 2019 #5
You can try crazytown Feb 2019 #11
Youthful indiscretion, you mean like the rape fantasy he wrote? Maru Kitteh Feb 2019 #67
That's why he cant be trusted. honest.abe Feb 2019 #4
K&R sheshe2 Feb 2019 #6
Best song ever and I have no clue how I'll vote yet. akraven Feb 2019 #7
And the world looks just the same crazytown Feb 2019 #8
One of my forever favorites - spouse and I ragged through 2 albums akraven Feb 2019 #9
The memories live on crazytown Feb 2019 #10
Meet The New Boss RAAD2 Feb 2019 #18
You can't trust him either. 2016, I'm staying a Democrat. crazytown Feb 2019 #28
If he wasn't bought in 2016, he was an idiot, OR he didn't give a shit. MH1 Feb 2019 #34
Fitting maxrandb Feb 2019 #52
I for one don't think Bernie is going to have the same momo as last time. NoMoreRepugs Feb 2019 #12
Pretty sure you meant mojo.. disillusioned73 Feb 2019 #42
Momo short for momentum... NoMoreRepugs Feb 2019 #65
Ahhhh.. disillusioned73 Feb 2019 #72
The Democratic Party is for Democrats louis c Feb 2019 #13
Meet the new boss. Nowhere near as repulsive as the old boss. lame54 Feb 2019 #14
Third Party Candidates Gave Us Trump the Last Time-The Very Future of Our Country is at Stake dlk Feb 2019 #15
False Cuthbert Allgood Feb 2019 #20
Third Party Candidates Peeled Off Enough Votes to Give Trump the Electoral College dlk Feb 2019 #22
I assume you are talking about Stein. Cuthbert Allgood Feb 2019 #25
Its not just the actual votes Stein received, but also those voters she turned off.. honest.abe Feb 2019 #40
"Surely" Cuthbert Allgood Feb 2019 #46
You just gave your opinion. I have a different opinion. honest.abe Feb 2019 #47
No. Doesn't mean it's right. That's all I'm saying. Cuthbert Allgood Feb 2019 #48
Its an opinion...just like yours saying it was Hillary's fault. honest.abe Feb 2019 #49
A logical fallacy rarely supports a premise... LanternWaste Feb 2019 #54
Maybe if Jill Stein hadn't LIED her Fucking HEAD Cha Feb 2019 #68
But so well loved. /nt tonedevil Feb 2019 #23
Bernie Sanders, the convenient Democrate ... when he runs for President that is... NotHardly Feb 2019 #16
What's a Democrate? SammyWinstonJack Feb 2019 #55
This crazytown Feb 2019 #71
To be clear I am NOT a Bernie supporter angrychair Feb 2019 #17
What was Sander's option other than caucusing with Democrats? CrossingTheRubicon Feb 2019 #31
Sorry, don't understand the question angrychair Feb 2019 #44
You asked, "If he was against Democrats why has he caucused with them for almost 30 years?" CrossingTheRubicon Feb 2019 #45
Got you angrychair Feb 2019 #53
Thank you for a sane post in a sea of hate LiberalLovinLug Feb 2019 #41
I absolutely LOVE this song (long version): George II Feb 2019 #19
Great song, but better with these lyrics change spike jones Feb 2019 #32
Maybe He Will Select Susan Sarandon As His Running Mate, Too! DoctorJoJo Feb 2019 #21
If you truly oppose Sanders... Roy Rolling Feb 2019 #24
It's an informative post. crazytown Feb 2019 #27
+1 uponit7771 Feb 2019 #30
It's reality.. nothing wrong with that. Cha Feb 2019 #69
Well to blunt this is the DU and we are supposed to support Democrats which Bernie himself declined cstanleytech Feb 2019 #26
lyric nitpicking? moonseller66 Feb 2019 #29
Absolutely correct. crazytown Feb 2019 #35
Warren's to the left of him, Harris to the right, here he is stuck in the middle again. lark Feb 2019 #33
Warren's address to the Nation Council of American Indians crazytown Feb 2019 #37
I so agree. lark Feb 2019 #39
This time round I think we need both a Warrior and a Healer. crazytown Feb 2019 #43
sorry Sanders, Kamala already has my vote JuJuYoshida Feb 2019 #36
bernie is NOT A DEMOCRAT!!! if he changes just to run .... that is just opportunistic. trueblue2007 Feb 2019 #50
+1000 Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Feb 2019 #51
I was NEVER fooled! Cha Feb 2019 #56
Really? crazytown Feb 2019 #57
Really! Cha Feb 2019 #63
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2019 #58
Where did you return from? nt R B Garr Feb 2019 #59
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2019 #60
Your post was a smear about this website... R B Garr Feb 2019 #61
DU Rec...nt SidDithers Feb 2019 #64
K & R SunSeeker Feb 2019 #66
K&R Tarheel_Dem Feb 2019 #70

bearsfootball516

(6,369 posts)
3. He doesn't have nearly as much going for him now as he did in 2016
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 11:13 AM
Feb 2019

He doesn't have the advantage of being the new face that comes out of nowhere and surprises everyone. In 2016, he ran as being super progressive compared to Hillary, but now, a lot of the serious candidates have stances very similar to him, so his positions on issues won't make him stand out like last time. And back in 2016, he was the ONLY other option if you were a Democrat and didn't really like Hillary. Now, if you don't like Harris, you can vote Biden or Booker or Warren or Castro or Gillibrand, etc. There are so many other options than just Bernie.

LiberalLovinLug

(14,153 posts)
38. Yup. These dumb hit pieces on Sanders aren't even necessary.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 02:23 PM
Feb 2019

In fact, now we are going to find out just who was only hating on Sanders because of a party letter requirement, and who actually demeans him because they don't like progressive values, or are afraid of them, or think they are "undoable". Because now you've got a bunch of younger ones that have a D in front of their names so attacking their message won't be as easy, like you could the D-less Bernie. Policy is always more important than even what letter is in front of the name. Some the letter is more important, but I'll never understand that.

Its funny listening to some here that seem to be under the impression that its only a kind of cult of personality. Towards this old grumpy disheveled man who barks more than he speaks. NO...it has always been about his message. His principles. His shared vision for the country. Now that that is being shared by others coming up.....GREAT! Its probably time for Bernie to hang up his jacket anyways.

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
62. Quoting Sanders is a hit piece?
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 09:06 PM
Feb 2019

2016 - I’m staying a Democrat - 2017 I’ve always been an Independent. The issue is one of trust, not what letter is after his name.

akraven

(1,975 posts)
7. Best song ever and I have no clue how I'll vote yet.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 11:53 AM
Feb 2019

Fighting in the street with our children at our feet...…………...

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
8. And the world looks just the same
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 11:56 AM
Feb 2019

And history ain't changed
'Cause the banners
they are flown in the next war

Insanely great

akraven

(1,975 posts)
9. One of my forever favorites - spouse and I ragged through 2 albums
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 12:02 PM
Feb 2019

and finally found a CD!

Years ago - this one still makes me cry:



MH1

(17,537 posts)
34. If he wasn't bought in 2016, he was an idiot, OR he didn't give a shit.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 02:11 PM
Feb 2019

Doesn't matter which of the three, he won't get my vote again.

(I have no fear that he will get the Dem nomination so feel I can safely make that statement.)

I am referring to his too-late, too-tepid (by miles) "support" of Hillary as the nominee.

If he were a real leader we wouldn't have had so many of his "bros" (of both genders) refusing to vote for Hillary.

maxrandb

(15,188 posts)
52. Fitting
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 03:20 PM
Feb 2019

I'll move myself and my family aside
If we happen to be left half alive
I'll get all my papers and smile at the sky
For I know that the hypnotized never lie
Do ya?

There's nothing in the street
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
And the parting on the left
Is now the parting on the right
And the beards have all grown longer overnight

[Chorus]
I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
Don't get fooled again

NoMoreRepugs

(9,260 posts)
12. I for one don't think Bernie is going to have the same momo as last time.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 01:10 PM
Feb 2019

The others in the field are newer and shinier. Just my opinion.

dlk

(11,432 posts)
15. Third Party Candidates Gave Us Trump the Last Time-The Very Future of Our Country is at Stake
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 01:18 PM
Feb 2019

Third party candidates can't win sufficient electoral votes to win an election. They have, however, given us Republican presidents who have caused great harm. Speaking of steep learning curves...

dlk

(11,432 posts)
22. Third Party Candidates Peeled Off Enough Votes to Give Trump the Electoral College
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 01:47 PM
Feb 2019

None of them had enough votes to win. Which part of that is false?

Cuthbert Allgood

(4,861 posts)
25. I assume you are talking about Stein.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 01:50 PM
Feb 2019

Do you have numbers that show those voters would have voted Clinton?

I can speak to WI since it's my state, Clinton not showing up to campaign here was a much bigger factor than any third party candidate.

honest.abe

(8,556 posts)
40. Its not just the actual votes Stein received, but also those voters she turned off..
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 02:29 PM
Feb 2019

with her bogus attacks on Clinton. I remember during the Dem convention Stein was outside putting on a big show protesting and being interviewed by the media. That surely sucked away more than enough votes to give the election to Trump.

Cuthbert Allgood

(4,861 posts)
46. "Surely"
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 03:09 PM
Feb 2019

In the world of politics and votes, we usually talk about things that are verifiable rather than opinion. I'm sure you think that, but it doesn't make it reality. And I really, really do not like Stein.

The far bigger impact, on WI at least, was that Clinton never came here.

Cuthbert Allgood

(4,861 posts)
48. No. Doesn't mean it's right. That's all I'm saying.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 03:12 PM
Feb 2019

Unless you have some data to back it up, it's all just opinion.

Though I will say that at the time people were telling Clinton she needed to go to WI or else she would lose it. So there is that in favor of my opinion.

honest.abe

(8,556 posts)
49. Its an opinion...just like yours saying it was Hillary's fault.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 03:14 PM
Feb 2019

That's what a discussion board is for. Right??

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
54. A logical fallacy rarely supports a premise...
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 05:27 PM
Feb 2019

"Though I will say that at the time people were telling Clinton she needed to go to WI or else she would lose it."

Post hoc ergo prompter hoc.

Cha

(295,899 posts)
68. Maybe if Jill Stein hadn't LIED her Fucking HEAD
Wed Feb 20, 2019, 03:26 AM
Feb 2019

OFF about Hillary.. they would have voted for Hillary.

NotHardly

(1,062 posts)
16. Bernie Sanders, the convenient Democrate ... when he runs for President that is...
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 01:26 PM
Feb 2019
spoiled sport candidate. again

angrychair

(8,593 posts)
17. To be clear I am NOT a Bernie supporter
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 01:32 PM
Feb 2019

But in fairness to Senator Sanders, trying to paint him as being against Democrats by cherry-picking things he has said in the past is as much a false narrative as anything republicans say about Democrats.

If he was against Democrats why has he caucused with them for almost 30 years?

He has voted more with Democrats and Democratic Party planks than many actual Democrats.

He has done more to move forward serious debate on income inequality and minimum wage than most have in years.

I DO NOT support Sanders for president but I do support him as a senator of Vermont as long as he wants the job and his constituents keep voting for him and as a critical friend in our Senate Democratic caucus.

We all should.

 

CrossingTheRubicon

(731 posts)
45. You asked, "If he was against Democrats why has he caucused with them for almost 30 years?"
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 02:53 PM
Feb 2019

My question is what was his alternative?

Was he going to be a party of one?

What sort of committee assignments could he have expected then?

Did BS caucus with Democrats because he is "for our party," or for his own purposes?

I understand you are not a BS supporter. I'm trying to explore your question.

angrychair

(8,593 posts)
53. Got you
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 04:21 PM
Feb 2019

I would say his ideals are inherently little different than that Democratic Party planks.

His voting record shows him voting more with Democrats than most Democrats.

I would say it makes perfect sense to caucus with Democrats as they are of like mind.

He is a lot more likely to move forward aspects of his agenda (and he has, to his credit) when working with Democrats.

Nothing changes unless the majority sees the value in that change. Sanders can help move the agenda but he is not the answer. It’s about more than one person. It’s takes a unified movement like Harris and Warren and even AOC.

No one person has all the answers but hopefully working together we will get a little closer to real implementation of action on climate change, healthcare and education.

LiberalLovinLug

(14,153 posts)
41. Thank you for a sane post in a sea of hate
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 02:36 PM
Feb 2019

I also think he should not run again. But I'll never understand how people can just brush off decades of good work, alongside his longtime colleagues in the Democratic party, for decades. Like co-sponsoring the Medicare-for-All bill with Kamala Harris as an example.

But, hey, let's take the time, when we could be focusing on fighting Trump with Sanders and Democrats, to make a list of every past uncomfortable statement he's said in reference to the Democratic party. Some I'm sure were said in anger as well in moments of frustration with foot dragging on issues. Most was simple honest criticism. But lordy help us, we're too fragile to take criticism by anyone. We're perfect.

HE'S WORKING FOR THE GOOD GUYS FOLKS!!!

spike jones

(1,654 posts)
32. Great song, but better with these lyrics change
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 02:08 PM
Feb 2019

Then I'll get on my feet and say
We won't get fooled again
Won't get fooled again
No, no!

Meet the new boss
We are the new boss.

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
27. It's an informative post.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 01:57 PM
Feb 2019

Quotes by Senator Sanders and nothing else. Says he’s staying a Democrat in 2016, renegs in 2017. I don’t trust him.

cstanleytech

(26,080 posts)
26. Well to blunt this is the DU and we are supposed to support Democrats which Bernie himself declined
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 01:55 PM
Feb 2019

to join.
Thats not to say he does not have good ideas at times however the facts are the facts no matter how anyone might wish different and in this case the fact is Bernie is an independent and not a Democrat.

moonseller66

(430 posts)
29. lyric nitpicking?
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 02:03 PM
Feb 2019

There's a difference when you hear the correct word in the song. Nowhere does Roger Daltry say the word "won't."

He uses the word don't instead and it's misheard, misunderstood or wishfully changed nearly all the time.

The lyrics in question:

Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
Don't get fooled again, no no

He's praying we DON'T get fooled again, not saying we Won't. We are basically an apathetic society but one that hopefully is learning. We've been fooled too many times and time and again we keep getting fooled such that it's become accepted that we will get fooled again.

Nit picking? Maybe. But there's a whole different meaning intermixing the two words while ignoring he plea.

Just a thought.

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
35. Absolutely correct.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 02:15 PM
Feb 2019

The song’s title is ‘Won’t get fooled again’ but the lyrics are more pessimistic - and some of the best lyrics ever written:

And the world looks just the same
And history ain't changed
'Cause the banners,
they are flown in the next war

The same sides, the same banners : history repeating.

lark

(23,003 posts)
33. Warren's to the left of him, Harris to the right, here he is stuck in the middle again.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 02:08 PM
Feb 2019

With apologies to whoever wrote "Stuck in the Middle".

With all the competition this time, think he'll struggle to be even get in the top 4, much less the top person. I know I'm totally done with him.

Of course, if he's the general candidate (he won't be) I will vote for him.

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
37. Warren's address to the Nation Council of American Indians
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 02:21 PM
Feb 2019

impressed the hell out of me. Elizabeth is a warrior - here she showed heart.

lark

(23,003 posts)
39. I so agree.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 02:26 PM
Feb 2019

I really like her a lot too and am glad she's joined the race. We need her strong voice.

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
43. This time round I think we need both a Warrior and a Healer.
Tue Feb 19, 2019, 02:41 PM
Feb 2019

I don’t mean heal the divisions - no quarter given to MAGA at all, I mean sensitivity to the wounds, the pain so many have suffered through this monstrous presidency. That’s what I saw here. No ‘I feel your pain’ or soothing words, but an open heart.

Response to crazytown (Original post)

Response to R B Garr (Reply #59)

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