Bernie Sanders running means a less "progressive" or more establishment candidate will win

[Renew Deal]

Sanders will dilute the support of the Harris and Warrens of the world. This helps the Biden, Klobuchar, and Hickenloopers of the world.

[Maven]

1. Not sure about that. I support Harris and would never consider supporting Bernie. nt

[Renew Deal]

3. There is no doubt that you are a loyal supporter

But there are many people out there looking for the "most progressive" option. Some even care if they are electable. All of the "progressive" options will cancel each other out.

[Maven]

6. I don't know what you mean.

I support Harris not only because she is one of the most progressive politicians out there but also because she is brilliant, effective and has excellent leadership qualities. I believe that she is eminently electable. I lived in CA when she was the state AG and I've seen her in action. She's the real deal.

Progressives are looking for the best candidate, not just a laundry list of positions. The idea that Bernie is going to take away support from Harris (when the two candidates couldn't be more different) is silly.

[blm]

64. It wasn't meant that a Harris supporter would SWITCH to Sanders, but, that

Sanders’ additional candidacy will DILUTE the overall field of progressive candidates which could result in a more centrist candidate winning the nomination.


I have 3 progressives I am considering at this point, and Harris is one of them.

[Andy823]

63. Sounds like

You are talking about a group that won't vote "unless" they get their candidate, the so called most progressive option. Which to me means they are the same kind of crowd that was over on the JPR boards bashing Democrats and promoting trump instead of Hillary. The were never going to vote for a Democrat in 2016, and they won't this time, so I don't think what they want really matters.

We have a good group of progressives running and one of them will win, even if they aren't as progressive as the crowd on the JPR boards want.

[emulatorloo]

78. Bernie's blindness on civil rights makes him less progressive

And IMHO Warren brings more to the table as the “most progressive” option. More accomplishments, and she’s a policy wonk.

Of course YMMV

[brush]

81. Same here. The best thing for the Party is for Sanders to be out ASAP.

And with California's primary moved way up on the primary calendar that is very likely to happen. Who needs all that divisiveness again?

[Aristus]

2. I'm about as far to the left as one can get, and I'm not voting for Bernie.

Because I'm a DEMOCRAT!

I won't do anything that will help re-elect Trump; including and especially voting for Bernie!

[Maven]

7. +1000

[Apollyonus]

22. +1000 nt

[ehrnst]

53. +1000.

[TomSlick]

60. Why is this not clear to everyone?

Bernie will help Trump win - again.

[Thekaspervote]

69. Don't know but we need to keep saying! Hopefully he will be resoundingly defeated early in the

Primary... just like in 2016

[Blue_Tires]

4. Please... He got us stuck with Trump last time

and you think his cultists give a rat's ass?? Either Bernie wins or they'll blow the whole thing up out of sheer spite

[PTWB]

8. How did he get us stuck with Trump?

There are a lot of factors - Stein, Russian meddling, Comey, poor campaigning by HRC in the “blue wall” states, etc. I don’t see Bernie fans being much of a factor.

I like Bernie. I think he would make a fine President, infinitely better than Trump. But right now I’m leaning heavily toward Kamala for my primary support.

[Blue_Tires]

15. Yeah, prominent Berners telling Dems to "send a message by staying home"

and lampshading the idea that there was NO FUCKING WAY Trump could *EVER* be worse than Hillary, Ed Snowden (back when folks still took him seriously) screaming that there was never a better time in history to vote third party, H. A. Goodman swearing up and down as late as OCTOBER 2016 that he had it from the most impeccable sources that Hillary's arrest was imminent and Sanders would be the new nominee, or in Susan Sarandon/Michael Moore's case adopting that bullshit "A-Hillary-loss-could-be-the-best-thing-that-ever-happened-to-this-party" talking point didn't have *ANY* effect on Dem voters at all...

And no these are not random nutbars, these are among some of the most prominent and high-profile names in the liberal pundisphere with millions and millions of followers on Twitter.

[PTWB]

17. Why blame Bernie for that?

Bernie certainly isn’t responsible for messaging from Moore, Sarandon, Snowden, etc. Bernie endorsed Hillary. If he wanted to sow division he easily could have.

"I have come here to make it as clear as possible why I am endorsing Hillary Clinton and why she must become our next president," Sanders said at a joint rally. "Secretary Clinton has won the Democratic nomination and I congratulate her for that." Bernie July, 2016

[Blue_Tires]

21. It's incumbent on Bernie to reel in what I call his "zoo"

Since they're the people who sunk him the first time, and they're the people who are going to sink him this time... But we all know that isn't going to happen yet oh my GOD there will be endless hand-wringing and recriminations when Bernie strikes out with black voters *again* because his most vocal supporters on Twitter have been calling Kamala Harris a cop and a whore who isn't even a real black woman for a solid month... And I've got news for you: The hatemob mentality might have halfway worked against a polarizing figure like Hillary, but it is NOT going to work against candidates of color more liberal than St. Bern. Of course Bernie hasn't taken a single bit of my advice since 2015 so why should he start now?

And yes, after some arm-twisting Bernie gave a warmed-over endorsement but he never actively encouraged his people to fall in line... It's hard for me to fully blame him, since so many people have been telling him he's the sole savior of liberal politics that it's only a matter of time before he starts believing in all that hero worship bullshit. I also know for a fact that Bernie really hates Hillary and Obama and the Dem party (which ironically is why he feels a kindred connection with Trump) so why would he help us out anyway?? I'd said in 2017 that the party would regret how much they bent over backwards to kiss his ass and kowtow to his snowflake mob cultists because he's just going to fuck us in return and that's what's happening.

I just want him to drop the fucking pretense and run as in Independent... This way his race can be ALL about HIM and he won't even have to deal with those messy rigged primaries...

[Garrett78]

25. Bernie himself repeatedly sticks his foot in his mouth on matters of racism and sexism.

That, far more than his policy positions, is what separates him from others and essentially eliminates him as a contender.

He's done after New Hampshire, which he may not even win this time around. Once we get into the larger, more diverse states, he has no path to victory.

[PTWB]

26. How do you "know for a fact" that Bernie hates Hillary and Obama?

FWIW I love Obama and Kamala is most likely going to get my vote in the primary, though it is far too early to make a concrete decision.

[Blue_Tires]

28. So tell me when was the last time he ever mentioned them? Or praised them?

Lest you forget, the last few time St. Bern has talked about Obama he couldn't avoid dishing out a backhanded non-compliment...

Any more questions? You're wearing me out for someone who just joined...

[PTWB]

30. Jeez, sorry for "wearing you out"

You’d think a discussion wouldn’t be too much for someone on a discussion forum, but it is what it is I suppose.

I don’t know when the last time is that Bernie praised Hillary or Obama was. I’m not a big Bernie guy and don’t follow his every word, even less since he lost the last primary.

What I do know is that I support his progressive platform. If he wins the nomination I’ll support him, although reluctantly - I don’t trust him to stay a Democrat if he wins.

You made the assertion that you “know for a fact” that Bernie hates Obama, Clinton and the Democratic Party. I asked you to back that up. If you have evidence of that “fact” I’d like to see it because anyone who hates Obama, Clinton or the Democratic Party is someone I will fight hard against.

Barack Obama was the best President in my lifetime. He’s in my top 3 since Lincoln. Hillary would have been a phenomenal President.

[Blue_Tires]

31. Yes, I know for a fact that he hates Hillary and Obama

and I know this just by watching and listening to him... Perhaps you should try it yourself instead of coming at me? Sometimes reading a little more and posting a little less can make all the difference.

See that box at the top of the page? Why don't you have a dive into the archives and see for yourself if I'm lying, since I'm not your personal research assistant. Sorry, I quit playing that game 8 years ago.

Regardless, welcome to DU... However long your stay lasts.

[Blue_Tires]

35. Oh and lest you forget, St. Bern tried to primary Obama in 2012.

But then why should you even know that?

[PTWB]

38. I don't remember Bernie being on the primary ballot in 2012

At least not in my state.

I feel like you’re mad for the sake of being mad. I like Bernie. I support his progressive policies. I do NOT support him for the nomination. I’m leaning toward Kamala.

Focus on what matters!

[Blue_Tires]

40. He failed to get himself or anyone on the ballot

because, you know, Obama was wildly popular...

Is this the action of someone who supposedly loves, admires and respects Barack H. Obama?

[PTWB]

42. I wasn't aware he tried to get on the ballot in 2012

I definitely would have taken a dim view of that. We were lucky to have Obama for 8 years.

[Thekaspervote]

70. +1000

[shanny]

62. how convenient

I thought it was the Russians! Or Jill Stein! (same thing!). Or Cheating! (I actually buy that one) Or a government that ignores far too many of its citizens! (that too)(oh wait...that one isn't an acceptable alternative, even as a partial explanation)

Dang. Now I'm confused. But that's OK. Everybody is.

[emulatorloo]

79. So you don't believe Putin interfered in the US election to help Trump win?

You don’t believe it? No evidence?

Summary:
https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/348051002

Mueller’s indictment:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/02/16/read-robert-muellers-indictment-13-russian-nationals-election-meddling/346688002/

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

65. Riiiight, it was all Bernie's fault... that's not what Hillary said in her book, What Happened.

[trueblue2007]

5. bernie is NOT A DEMOCRAT!!! if he changes just to run .... that is just opportunistic.

Palmer Report
?Verified account @PalmerReport
37m37 minutes ago

The whole problem in 2016 ended up being Bernie himself. He’s always been the problem.
For forty years he’s been a toxic dumbass with zero accomplishments who just happens to be far-left.
Then cable news turned him into a god for the sake of ratings.

[Hekate]

12. Spot on

[shanny]

67. Far Left.

y'know, when someone says stupid shit like that--after a career of saying stupid shit--it's OK to not listen

[TheFarseer]

9. I'm afraid you're right

I supported Bernie last time, but I think I’d rather see Warren this time. I think they will split the progressive vote.

[Garrett78]

10. Demographics and perception will play a larger role than ideology.

Midwesterners and New Englanders will hurt one another in Iowa and New Hampshire.

Many Bernie fans seem to love Warren but dislike Harris, even though the latter 2 have the same voting record.

Votes won't be split over policy positions so much as over demographics (race, sex, region, etc.) and perception of policy positions.

Sanders is wholly reliant on Iowa and New Hampshire. So is Klobuchar. So are Warren and Biden. And Brown. Disappointing finishes will effectively end campaigns.

[CentralMass]

11. Can your crystal ball pick me some winnig lottery numbers?

[Renew Deal]

13. I would say yes

If it ever picked some for me.

[Garrett78]

18. While I disagree with the OP, we can be fairly certain of some things.

For instance, there's virtually no chance that Sanders will be the nominee. Just as we knew after Super Tuesday in 2016 that he wouldn't be the nominee.

[Thekaspervote]

71. Thank you for saying it out loud!!

[Awsi Dooger]

14. Adjustments don't work

If the base is determined to nominate someone from the more liberal wing, then it will sort out that way.

Primaries are like-minded people so one trigger can shift allegiance in the same direction. There is very little chance of the more liberal candidates splitting the vote in similar numbers.

Always default to normalcy and not adjustment

[Doremus]

16. Yes, by all means we need fewer candidates and less choices.

[Renew Deal]

19. That's not really relevant to my point but...

Look at what came out of 16 republican candidates in 2016.

?w=990

[Doremus]

20. Ooh scary picture. It must prove that if we have "too many" candidates we're going to

end up with a Trumpenstein again.

Fewer candidates = no scary Trump monster! Yay, fewer candidates!!

[Renew Deal]

23. I'm all for more choices

But there are consequences. #1 is a tyranny of the minority in which the most popular of the unpopular wins (Trump). #2 is if no one can get a majority of the delegates. That would be ugly.

Trump was a president most didn't want. He failed to get a majority in most primaries and failed to get one in the GE. Yet here we are.

[Doremus]

32. What did Bernie's candidacy in the primary have to do with orange cheetoh's win

You're conflating Bernie's primary run with Trump's eventual win. Why?

[Renew Deal]

36. You brought up the number of candidates

So Bernie specifically isn’t relevant. The large number of candidates is relevant to what you brought up.

[Doremus]

41. So you think we need fewer candidates in the primary.

Fewer choices is better?

I don't agree.

[Renew Deal]

43. You're focusing on what you think I think and not what I say

[SidDithers]

24. Harris is more progressive than Bernie...

She’s everything he is, plus she’s pro gun control, and recognizes that women’s rights and civil rights are important to Democrats.

Sid

[Doremus]

34. I like Kamala and would be pleased to vote for her.

I don't think her candidacy should preclude Bernie's entry into the race however.

The more progressives the easier to push the party back into leftist territory imo.

[Thekaspervote]

75. Harris is leaps and bounds ahead of BS. She won't be a "one person band"

IF She wins she will surround herself with great minds.

[doc03]

27. I hope that will be the case. We are not going to win any national

election running a socialist.

[Doremus]

33. Whew, that's good. Cause Bernie's not a socialist.

If we're going to be against something, we should at least learn what it is we're against.

https://www.google.com/search?q=democratic+socialism&oq=democratic+socialism&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.2589j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[David__77]

29. I don't think I'd have a problem voting for Sanders or for Biden.

....

[Gore1FL]

37. Just out of curiosity, do you think only one woman and one minority should run, too?

You know, vote dilution and all....

[Autumn]

39. I doubt that. Biden, Bernie, and Warren are all a perfect fit for what we need now.

Klobuchar, Hickenlooper and a couple of others will be gone quick.

[Tiggeroshii]

44. Warren and BS are the only truly progressive candidates running so far.

Most progressives will likely vote for one of them. And Unlike last time it will all probably be sorted out by March.

[Renew Deal]

45. Will he drop out when he loses or hang around for a few more months?

[Tiggeroshii]

46. Well the very definition of losing means he cant hang around.

[Renew Deal]

72. Is he aware of that?

[Tiggeroshii]

74. He was last time.

As was Hillary in 2008, after she stayed into the summer and dropped out when it was over. Good for the both of them.

[Blue_true]

47. Harris and Booker have a more progressive voting record than Bernie.

Harris even outranks Warren in that regard. How can you make your claim in the face of their records?

[Tiggeroshii]

48. interesting

[Blue_true]

51. A liberal group compiled their voting records.

Harris was the most progressive or second. Bernie was seventh or eight. Warren was either first or second, the top was between Warren and Harris. Booker was around fifth.

[Recursion]

49. Most of the field is more progressive than Bernie

I don't know where he gets this reputation, because it's sure as hell not his Congressional voting record.

[Tiggeroshii]

50. because they havent voted for medicare for all yet

or 70% tax rate, or tuition free college at universities. if you add those issues bernie and warren would win in a landslide

[Blue_true]

56. What does voting for those things now prove? nt

[Recursion]

73. Warren's more of a neoliberal

In the Krugman/Banerjee/Fukuyama arc of that spectrum. She's also probably one of the more hawkish candidates we have.

[Blue_true]

54. I pointed that out.

Everyone that has announced so far except I think Klobuchar ranked higher than him when their voting records were compiled and graded by a progressive group. It was presented here on DU.

Bernie talks a good game, but his actual track record is middling.

[LuvLoogie]

58. I think they like they way he says "millionaires and billionaires."

Or the way he says. I am not a Democrat and I am running for the Democratic Party nomination for President because Democrats aren't good enough.

[jcgoldie]

55. I don't understand how anyone can call Sanders the most progressive...

...when he's the only major democratic candidate who the NRA doesn't rate an F.

[BannonsLiver]

61. It was all sorted out by March last time

Only Bernie and his followers didn’t get the memo. But I suspect you are right about 2020, only not in the way you hope.

[Garrett78]

68. In 2016, the race effectively ended on Super Tuesday.

That may not be the case in 2020 with there being such a large field, but Sanders will - as in 2016 - be eliminated from contention no later than Super Tuesday.

[shanny]

52. I am not worried.

My personal criteria visavis "progressive" is whether Wall St. is OK with a candidate or not. So far only Warren and Bernie are "not." In fact, I think they are hated, which greatly endears them to me. I think all the rest will split the more moderate vote, and there are a lot of them.

[liberal N proud]

57. At this point, I have only ruled out one Democratic candidate

I will not support Sanders in the primaries. He will not get my vote and I will do nothing to help him. I have worked on all campaigns going back to Clinton.

My support is earned and not demanded. And the crap that went down last election by the BS campaign and the Bobs left a very bad taste in my mouth, one I can still taste.

[LakeArenal]

59. Biden 2020.

[bigtree]

66. there will be an overwhelming progressive push this election

...coming from voters, and bolstered by at least three major Dem candidates.

Hickenlooper isn't a serious contender, and there's still Sherrod Brown to come, I think, possibly Beto.

[AlexSFCA]

76. this is probably correct and we will likely be down to 2 viable candidates

e.g. bernie and biden or bernie and kamala. I won’t vote for bernie in the primary but one doesnt need to be a genius to predict that bernie will win the primary.

[Garrett78]

80. "...one doesn't need to be a genius to predict that bernie will win the primary."

I replied to a similar post of yours in another thread but now I realize that you're just trolling. That anyone could think Sanders is likely to win the nomination is dumbfounding.

[Fiendish Thingy]

77. Strictly your opinion- No evidence to support your assertion nt