Yesterday the last car rolled down the line at Lordstown GM in Lordstown Ohio, I wept as I

[Demsrule86]

Last edited Sat Mar 2, 2019, 10:31 AM - Edit history (1)

witnessed this. Many watching the last moments face ruin and bankruptcy as there are not enough jobs to go around. MY son (twenty something) was lucky he was sent to Indiana last summer. Lordstown GM closed because of steel tariffs. Donald Trump is to blame.

It is simply to costly to make small cars in this country anymore-the tariffs combined with the poor sales of small cars sent the jobs overseas...and thousands will lose their jobs a result. The next time we have a gas price increase. Non-American workers will make the money. Foreign nations will profit and not us. The country that gave us automobiles will not longer manufacture them. It really is a dark day in the Unite States and does not bode well for our future. Below is information about the plant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lordstown_Assembly

[watoos]

1. I've been involved in plant closings.

They are like funerals. Gas is already $2.70/gal in Pa.

[Demsrule86]

5. I believe we are heading for recession. And even the new GM truck was sent overseas...steel

tariffs were devastating for autos...and didn't help steel at all. Hubs works in steel and his company lost money due to the tariffs. I have been in five plants that closed. It was heartbreaking and not just because of the jobs lost...but because most of us recognize the truth that if you want to be a great country, you have to make something...and now the GOP and Trump are costing us green jobs as well.

[DownriverDem]

100. It's all

about the money. I see the GM Headquarters from the building I work in. I'm sure trump will blame Obama and Hillary.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

111. money for execs, none for workers

[Demsrule86]

178. Thanks for the post ...very impressive. Yeah, good old Mary (CEO) what a piece of crap she is.

[True Blue American]

9. We lost 5 plants

Under GW Bush.

One was the original DAYTON ENGINEERING LABORATORY COMPANY, ( DELCO,) established by charles Kettering, who installed the first self starter on a Caddie.

Breaks your heart to see the demise of what built the middle class and restored the country.

A good share of this lies at the feet of the billionaires we keep electing plus the mismnagement of those simply out to protect shareholders.

[Demsrule86]

14. It really does break you heart.

[onethatcares]

2. recently I read on DU

the average price of a new car is $37K with a payment of $540 or there about.

who the hell can afford that on top of a house payment/rent, food, insurance, gas and all those little things?

Gas prices in West Central Florida, St Pete area $2.50/gal regular.

[Demsrule86]

3. The Cruze didn't cost that much and most people lease these days.

But the reason the cars cost more now is because of steel tariffs partly thanks to fucking Trump.

[Drahthaardogs]

6. Leasing is a gimmick for most

You never actually own the car, build equity, etc. It's just another way they scheme the system to make Americans feel like they have more money than they do, but it keeps us poorer in the long run

[Ferrets are Cool]

8. Yeah, leasing is a big

fucking TRAP. Reminds me of a sink hole.

[True Blue American]

10. True.

[Ohiogal]

93. Agree 100%.

[MrModerate]

11. Equity is a car isn't worth as much as you'd think . . .

The value plunges the second a new car leaves the lot, and even a minor accident can result in the car being totaled and your equity going up in smoke.

I used to buy, but I never will again.

[True Blue American]

20. True, bbut t I drove my

Olds Intrigue for 13 years. It was still like brand new when I traded.

[Drahthaardogs]

24. It depends. If you don't buy brand new and only take out a four year loan

You build equity fast

[csziggy]

29. I've been buying used cars

Some off lease, some trade-ins. But then I have enough money to pay cash for those used cars and don't have to finance them.

Cars are tools - I buy what I need to do the job I have for it. When I was running my farm I bought trucks that would pull my trailers. When my husband was commuting to work, I bought him Priuses to maximize gas mileage.

I will never have a long term lease on a vehicle. I buy what I need, drive it until it won't do its job and sell it - or send it to the junk yard.

[MrModerate]

44. How long do you consider long-term?

My son recently signed one for three years, which doesn't seem like an extreme commitment. Also, I think many people would find managing vehicles like you do to be a bit too complicated for them (notwithstanding all the online tools available these days).

[csziggy]

78. Basically anything other than renting a car for a vacation

I just don't believe in paying a dealership for the use of a car that I will not own. Heck, normally I don't rent cars for vacations since I no longer fly and drive my own vehicle (well, my husband drives) to where ever I'm going on this continent.

Later this year we're taking the Queen Elizabeth to cruise to the UK, spending almost three months there, and cruising back on a Royal Caribbean ship. And we'll be leasing a vehicle for part of that vacation - though part will be a bus tour or two.

Now that we're both retired, our vehicles sit a lot. When my husband was working, there was a service location a block from his job so he could take his commuter car in, get it serviced, and pick it up after work. Now we have to drive two vehicles into town, drop one off for a few days, and then drive back in to pick that one up.

I don't see buying used cars that complicated. Three of the last four vehicles we bought were located online - two from Cars.com, the other from Carvana. It was painless hunting for my choices, I could check the Carfax reports before I looked at them, and there were great photos to evaluate the interior and exterior condition.

The last one I bought was from a friend who is a used car salesman at a car dealer. Our older Prius quit and I needed a car to last a few months until we leave for Britain. He'd just gotten a trade-in in great shape and I bought it a few days after it was left at their lot. It's not my ideal vehicle but it will do until we're ready to leave the country. I may gift it to a niece who needs a car - she's stuck out in the country with three kids and no transportation.

[Demsrule86]

53. and when cars and truck are made mostly overseas where are these used vehicles

going to come from? You will end up paying new car prices for used cars in the end.

[Ferrets are Cool]

55. I haven't bought a new car since 1986.

I feel smarter for that.

[Demsrule86]

15. It is actually cheaper to lease these days...hard to believe I know.

[Drahthaardogs]

27. No it's not. If I pay the car off in four years and drive it for eight or ten

I'm WAY ahead of the game. If you look at a monthly payment only yes, but that's money you are throwing away. Over the course of eight years, I'm ahead buying.

[MrModerate]

36. For me it's a matter of risk vs reward . . .

And a lot of it has to do with the complexity of modern cars, which means that fixing them after even minor accidents can quickly exceed the value of the vehicle, at which point it's totaled and your equity goes poof.

Couple that with the lower payments on a lease and the option of upgrading your technology every three years for about the same cost, and leasing can be pretty attractive.

[Drahthaardogs]

105. It doesn't work that way unless you have cheap secondary insurance

Or only carry liability.

[Historic NY]

109. Leasing is fine if your able to write it off, maybe not any more with Trump...

I know people that lease and the cars sit most of the time because they become afraid of going over on mileage. My buddy up the street got ripped over a KIA lease. He ending paying more than if he purchased monthly (down payment etc). But his wife had to have it, no research just sign the paper. He was on fire when he saw other places were even cheaper. My cousin the same, she squanders money so much she now barely gets by between her pension and social security. She leased a Nissan, again it sits because she get rides from other people. She should have bought out the old one on the lease. Meanwhile she pays each month on this one the same model and color but doesn't go anywhere. In another year or so she will have to turn in in. Some people can't manage money. If you drive under 10k a yr a lease is a waste.

[OhioBlue]

176. In my area, add to risk column, the fracking waste the State and localities

are spreading on the roads that rusts the under body and damages brake lines. I will lease my next vehicle.

I finally paid my car off. Got a brake job and the mechanic tells me the under body is completely rusted. Shortly after that, I was at a township meeting and learned that they are allowing fracking brine to be spread on the dirt roads in the summer for "dust control". A few weeks ago, I read an article that ODOT is spreading it as a deicer. I talked to a body shop about what could be done for my car... he said nothing can be done, it is happening to lots of vehicles.

[Demsrule86]

65. Cars are super expensive. Most people take 7 years loans these days...and once paid off

there are maintenance and repair costs. Below is an article that explains my thinking.

https://community.cartalk.com/t/leasing-is-cheaper-than-owning/81440

[Drahthaardogs]

112. If you need to take a seven year loan out

You are looking at cars beyond your means. That's why they lease and it's exactly what I said. It gives people a sense of wealth they don't really have and is just another symptom of the fucking of the American worker.

My last car was a lease turn in that had about 34 K on it. I already had my credit union approve me for a loan for 4 years. When I went in to buy, they pushed hard for me to use their financing. I showed them what the credit union approved and said if you can beat the rate, go for it.

They die, BUT they wanted me to take out a seven year loan. I made sure there were no penalties, and took it BUT I paid on it as if it were a four year loan. Paid it off in 3.5.

And that's how you beat them at their own game.

[oldsoftie]

121. Thats just it; you beat them at their own game. Cars or anything else. We have to.

Last car i bought they gave me 500 off for taking their financing. So i took it, and refinanced it the next week. There werent any restrictions so why not save the 1.5%?

[Drahthaardogs]

128. Awesome!

Good job

[Demsrule86]

179. I agree with that...my only point is as cars are moved overseas...we lose jobs and the ability to

get the great deals you talk about...simply won't be enough of a supply of used cars.

[RobinA]

200. Reminds Me

of the time I was looking to buy a new Honda Civic. I figured out a lowball but fairish number, shopped it around, and nobody would meet it. One dealer asked me, "Who gave you that number, XYZX dealer?' So I went to XYZX and gave them my number, which they agreed to. I go down to get the car and the guy goes, So, you are financing through us? I said I wasn't financing at all and the guy about had a kitten right there on the showroom floor. " You said...!!!!!!!!" I told him, Nope, I never said I was financing. I hadn't, he had assumed but never asked how I was paying for the thing.

I think I must be on XYZX's blacklist (if there is such a thing) though, because I went to them a couple years ago for a lease price and they came back with a monthly payment $100 more a month than anybody else.

[getagrip_already]

60. As others have said, leasing is NOT cheaper.....

It's an accounting tool, not a cost saving tool. If you have a business, it can make sense to lease due to tax advantages. But for an individual, it's more expensive.

Costs don't go down just because you lease. And the leasing company isn't doing it out of the kindness of their hearts; they extract money from the process.

The car doesn't cost any less to buy and isn't worth any more when you are done with it. In fact, you may owe extra if you go over the mileage you agree to, have any body damage, or didn't maintain it to the agreed upon schedules. So if the cost of ownership is cost to buy minus price at sale, plus the leasing company profit, then it's pretty clear you are paying extra to lease.

So if you lease it from yourself, you can save a bundle. If you can't, then you need a new calculator.

[TexasBushwhacker]

73. Leasing is great for people who used to trade in their cars every few years

I know plenty of people who never EVER drive a car that's more than 5 years old. If you're good at taking care of your cars and don't put a bunch of miles on them, leasing makes sense. If you're someone like me that buys their car new, pays it off and drives it until it becomes unreliable, buying makes more sense (and cents).

My current car is a 2006 Scion xB that just hit 100K miles. I've never had any work done beyond scheduled maintenance. I'm not even that good about getting the oil changed regularly, yet it has never broken down on me. I'm 62 and don't put nearly as many miles on my vehicles as I once did, so my next car will be used, probably from a car rental company since those are well maintained or a lease return. I'm hoping to get a hybrid.

I will say this. My current car is the smallest I've ever driven. While I love its goofy look (AKA The Toaster) I've been run off the road twice by 18 wheelers . It's just too low to be visible to big trucks. So my next car will higher/bigger, even if it means lower gas mileage. Driving in Houston means sharing the road with lots of BATs (Big Ass Trucks) and SUVs. To be safer, I just need a bigger vehicle.

[Bettie]

142. Depends on how much you drive

the mileage restrictions will get you if you drive a lot.

[allgood33]

146. In some circumstances, especially for the young, it's better to UBER

No insurance costs, maintenance, gas, parking fees. If you are going for a visit across LA or other major cities like NYC is just simpler to Uber. There are special apps for seniors etc. If you divide the number of trips into the cost of your auto insurance you will understand.

[Demsrule86]

150. No it is not ...Uber is not cheap and not safe for women espcially.

Last edited Mon Mar 4, 2019, 12:38 PM - Edit history (1)

My future daughter in law...a broke millennial working for Starbuck despite a college degree asked me if I would pay for her uber for three days back and forth to work...it is five or 10 minutes away...it was over $50.00 on the second day...that is not cheaper...and was not even a week and back and forth to work only. Have you ever hired an Uber? I have. Cheap is not a word I would use.

[allgood33]

182. using the Uber app, my neighbor who is 67, pays 5.50 for a ride from her grocery store which

is 8 miles from her home. She takes the bus to the store, and gets Uber back home with packages...and help from the Uber driver. We live in Maryland.

[Demsrule86]

194. Well my future daughter in law lives in Autstin town Ohio and it cost me over $50.00 for three

days of back and forth to work. And not millennial can afford that ( unless they have decent jobs which many don't) Now your friend took the bus back home so it would have been $11. back a forth say to go to work even at that reduced price (and don't forget the tips...users are rated on tips you know) which could be as much as $66.00 per week. ...which is $528.00 per month + tips and that is only back and forth to work...grocery shopping or going out would add to the price...no UBER is not going to take the place of a car.

[lastlib]

64. Leasing is (as my grandfather so aptly put it) buying a dead horse.

You get nothing to show for it.

[LuckyLib]

165. What shocks me is how many people lease.

“It’s the only way I can get a new car!”

Analyze that argument for a moment.

[teamster633]

45. I love my Cruze.

Even though I don't even have 40,000 miles on my current car, I can't help considering buying in on this last year...it may well be the last domestic sedan that I have an opportunity to buy.

[Demsrule86]

66. The cruze is a great car. I love it. The Cobalt before it which was cheaper is a workhorse...my

kid drove my 2006 Cruze until it was hit in November...it had 170,000 miles on it and was going strong.

[oldsoftie]

120. I've had one as a rental a few times. It was/is a fine car. Decent mileage too

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

127. Somehow I doubt most people lease.

I don't. I don't think I know anyone who does.

There are circumstances in which leasing makes sense, but that mainly applies to people who are sufficiently car-obsessed that they always want to be driving a new car. Some of us are quite happy buying a car for cash and driving it for a very long time.

[MichMan]

132. It is around 30% of new car sales are leases

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

133. 30% is hardly most people.

That sounds like about what I'd expect.

I also expect some significant number of those leases are corporate ones. The car I recently bought had come off a corporate lease.

[oldsoftie]

22. 1st car i ever bought on my own was a new one. I've never bought new since. (40 yrs)

Let someone else take the hit on the depreciation.
These days, cars are lasting easily to 200k miles. It was NEVER that way back in the 70s. And US or foreign made, they ALL last longer. I had a Pontiac that had over 300k when i sold it. Most of the others have had well over 200k.
Find what you like with 20-40k on it and pay less than half the cost of new. Drive it till the wheels fall off

[Drahthaardogs]

30. You and I think alike

It's the only way to do it

[Demsrule86]

32. Sure, with cars mostly being made overseas and increasing in prices...do you really think used cars

will continue to be cheap enough for most Americans who now have shitty jobs to buy?

[oldsoftie]

88. It depends on what your needs are. I've never spent 20k for a car yet.

And i seriously doubt i will for my next one. And some of those foreign makers are opening new plants HERE, so a foreign car may be more US than a US car. And the markup is so much that off-lease prices will still be affordable to most. I know a guy who just bought a 2002 for 400.00. And it RUNS!!
You CAN still buy new ones for under 20, its just that most folks dont want to. Its just like HGTV; they've made everyone think they simply MUST have whatever Chip & Joanna are showing this year. Auto ads play on men wanting big trucks to be macho & women wanting big & flashy to appear successful. Ever since i was in my 20s i've seen people pay almost as much for a car payment as rent. Of course, i live where a home can sell for under 100 a sq ft too

[RobinA]

203. My Current 2015

model is the first time I've cracked 20k - been buying new since my first new car in 1985. I probably won't be that low again. I try to by decent cars, and it's getting harder and harder to find anything decent and not bug-sized for less than 20.

[RobinA]

202. I Don't Think

a decent used is that cheap now. I recently bought out my lease because the same car used was more, several thousand more, than the lease buyout. Yes, I drove considerably under the mileage limit on the lease.

Personally, I leased, yes, because I wanted more car than I could afford. I needed a four wheel drive and the payments were more than I was comfortable with so I leased. Over the years I've paid cash, bargained, paid off loans early...anything to get the price of my cars down. I don't keep cars for more than about 75k because I'm a single female and I don't need the car breaking down a 2 in the morning. So this time I just damn well wanted the car I wanted - midlevel Honda CRV . Rolling in luxury, that's me!

[Demsrule86]

204. all I am saying is the decent prices will go away when cars are shipped in mostly from overseas so

will the quality. Also, as job are taken from us ...don't see how average folks can afford cars much longer.

[Ohiogal]

96. Exactly what we do, too.

Cars are such a rip off!

[oldsoftie]

119. Yep! but diamonds are the WORST rip off!!

[Demsrule86]

31. Well if peope don't buy new cars there won't be any for you to buy as a used car. And if cars go

up which they have, your price will go up as well.

[oldsoftie]

82. There are plenty of people who are slaves to image & will always buy new.

Some of my friends are like that. They also never sell their old car, they trade them in. The WORST choice. But thats who they are and what they like

[Demsrule86]

98. They won't be able to afford them.

[oldsoftie]

122. Well, we'll see. I've been hearing that for 30 yrs.

Just like housing, if the prices get too high, people wont buy. And the prices WILL come down.
But you're right, i depend on OTHER people to buy new so i dont have to. And most who buy on an 8 yr note are also the types who wont keep a car that long.

[Demsrule86]

162. This is the endgame...and with manufacuring moving there will be other markets with cash...

GM makes and sells many cars in China for example. We will as usual be fucked.

[csziggy]

42. My sister just found a great deal on an off lease car

From Hertz. Now, she lives in Orlando so they have a big lease fleet there that they upgrade on a regular basis so she had a good selection to look at. But she looked at new, at trade-ins, and at long term lease vehicles, and the best deal was from Hertz. Low mileage and in great shape.

I tend to buy a little older vehicles - 4-5 years old - and drive them until they are completely dead. Like you said, drive it until the wheels fall off.

[Demsrule86]

49. Again, even fleet car sales are down...and without people buying new cars those

deals won't be deals soon.

[happybird]

114. We do the same, learned it from my parents

The only brand new car they ever bought was a VW beetle in the 70s.

My husband and I go with Hondas. Our current Accord has 215,000 miles on it and is going strong. It had close to 70,000 when we bought it for a few grand.

Regular maintenance is key. No car payments is awesome.

[Adrahil]

186. Keep in mind that huge pick-ups and SUVs are driving up the average.

I bought a top-of-the-line Honda Accord Touring last year. The final price was below the "average" cost of a new car.

I could have gotten a nicely equipped one for almost $10K less. and I could have paid even less if I wanted a Civic (too small for me, but not for most folks).

It's the drive to HUGE vehicles that is driving up average costs.

[WeekiWater]

201. 37 k buys one heck of a car.

I mean a really really nice car.

[Act_of_Reparation]

208. You a Boomer?

I only ask because you forgot to mention student loans.

[mahina]

4. Thank you for telling this story. Can you tell us a little bit about please?

Thank you for telling this story.

Can you tell us a little bit about please? How long how do you been making cars here? I keep reading about conversion to electric engines and hearing about small scale retrofit operations starting to be led by individual mechanics.

I hope somehow we can find a way to heal.

[Demsrule86]

13. The Lordstown plant was the biggest employer in the Warren area. Thouasand of jobs will be

lost now...all over the Midwest as parts plants will close. There are few good paying jobs in the area so it is truly a disaster for the workers and their families.

The plant opened in 1966. There was a great deal of pride in the plant. People don't realize that autos are one of the few businesses who hire those who were sent to jail...they gave many a second chance. When you work for GM, it truly was like a family. I am so sad about the closing. It use to be you could graduate from High School and walk in the next day and get a manufacuring job which supported a family and allowed a comfortable middle class life. I am very sad about this. And I do believe that we are facing an recession and this time autos won't be there to pull us out thanks to the steel tarrifs which were very damaging...I believe in tariffs are needed when done properly. But Trump is an idiot. I can only hope he loses the Mid West over this...Trump doesnt understand that this is a big deal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lordstown_Assembly

[mahina]

123. Thank you. I appreciate that. I looked online and read some of the newspaper articles

About the plant and the community.

I’m so sorry it’s happening to all those people. What a terrible loss.

[MichMan]

7. The Cruze was selling poorly

Generally true of all sedans while crossovers are selling very well. While it is true that smaller sedans like the Cruze are not selling, the crossover vehicles that are popular are not all gas guzzlers. They use turbocharged 4 cylinder engines and are built on small car platforms.

Assembly plants are very expensive to operate on only 1 or 2 shifts. The workers are all offered transfers to other GM plants if they are interested in moving.

[True Blue American]

16. And now the Buick LaCross is gone.

So what happenes to those of who who do not like SUV’?

The steel tariffs and tax cuts of 50% for. Company to move overseas is what Sherrod brown has been fighting against all his political life.

Trump asked Sherrod what he could do, Brown told him to get rid of that tax.

[Demsrule86]

47. Ford isn't selling or making cars here now...so who the hell knows.

It is disgraceful...and I hope that Trump is rocked by this in 20 and loses in a landslide. Pennsylvania is affected too as they have parts plants.

[druidity33]

130. I love my Subaru Crosstrek...

about half of the models are made in the US, sadly not the Crosstrek. But the Outback is made in Indiana i think. My car gets around 34mpg...

[Demsrule86]

17. That is unture about all workers getting job offers. I know because my husband and my son

worked there. There are not enough jobs. And salaried worker jobs are being cut by 13,000. Please don't misrepresent this as no big deal...It is a big deal. And not all workers will get jobs

[True Blue American]

21. They get job offers IF

There is a job open at another plant!

[Demsrule86]

28. They are laying off in five plants. There are not enough jobs...and those who live in

Michigan will be given priority for Michigan jobs as the moving costs are less...so you see Ohio workers are screwed so don't opine that this is no big deal and hey the workers will just have to move because it is not true. There are not enough jobs for all the workers. And salaried jobs are being cut by 13,000 so they have a better chance of being hit by a truck as getting a transfer.

[True Blue American]

37. You said it.

I watched the devestaion of losing 5 plants in the orignal car city.

Many wnt back to schools or College to train for jos tht can not be outsourced

There is another problem now. After years of preaching college they are now begging for skilled trades as the older ones died off or retired.

[Demsrule86]

43. There is a reason why retraining is a dirty word in the Mid West...many trained for n

jobs that were not really there.

[True Blue American]

52. But those who had the will retrained

For jobs that could not be outsourced.

[Demsrule86]

76. There are very few jobs that can't be outsourced...and the retraining was mostly in manufacuring...

this is what was offered. My daughter is worried. She is an accountant (just graduated) and many companies are shifting these jobs overseas.

[True Blue American]

137. And the companies are now cutting

Last edited Sun Mar 3, 2019, 02:44 PM - Edit history (1)

White Collar, too.

I feel for your daughter and the millions like her.

Congress has passed somany laws ober the years that has killed the work force. Automation has also caused a great deal of harm. I have read a lot about how technology is changing so fast that it is impossible to keep up.

We can only hope those of your daughters generation will help us clean out the old, moldy dead heads in Congress. I think the young will pull us through.

I wish your daughter good luck in her profession. My brother is a CPA goinginto retirement. He had to start his own pratce. Any chance of that for her?

[Demsrule86]

157. I think that is what will happen. Local companies will need accountants and we are looking a

building state economies to get jobs since the feds have given our jobs away.

[True Blue American]

171. Perfect

An infrastucture bill would put millions to work, good paying jobs and taxes flowing into the Treasury.

[oldsoftie]

19. people are missing that point; the car made in this plant wasnt selling well in the US.

Americans are addicted to their SUVs and crossovers.
I've never owned one, but almost EVERYONE i know has one.

[Demsrule86]

23. No you are missing the point. Cars in general were not selling that well and steel tariffs made

it way worse. GM could not make the Cruze until prices picked up after the tariffs...and this lead to the shutdown. Now cars will not be made in the USA for the most part...Ford won't even make the focus here anymore...and we have been talking about GM but Ford is closing plants as well...and the new GM truck was sent to Mexico. Thousands of jobs are being lost and your post take a simplistic views of this situation.

[True Blue American]

26. Ford is not making cars here,period!

[Demsrule86]

34. Exactly...and they won't sell them here either...from what I hear.

Think about that.

[True Blue American]

41. My Grandfather actually worked for Henry Ford after he bought the DT&

To move his cars. Laid off from the RR Henry promised him a lifetime job. 50 years.

[mtngirl47]

12. My Uncle went to work for GM at Lordstown in the 70's

He raised his kids, they both went to college and now he and my Aunt are enjoying a nice retirement. Note that both of my cousins moved out of the area for better jobs.

Sad that we won't have plants with jobs like this for your son's generation.

[Demsrule86]

18. My son actually works for GM in Indiana. He was one of the lucky ones and was transferred last

summer, but the future is uncertain. He is saving like crazy so he has other options down the road...smart kid.

[True Blue American]

25. My Son just took early retirement

From a plant that was Chrysler when he started. He was lucky enough he plant had a Union for professionals. He tried to warn them the overwork was too much.

[Demsrule86]

38. Overwork? Did you mean overtime? I am glad you son is OK.

[True Blue American]

57. He is an Engineer

His Dad sent him to College on GM wages.

He ended up working 12 hours a day, 7 days. Week, also on call. When he left he was resonsible for 256 people.

He is now one happy retiree, but not everyone has that opportunity. It made him sick at the misteartment on the floor. Do not forget Chrysler was sold twice. First to Daimler. They drained the company, then sold it again.

[Demsrule86]

67. My husband is an engineer. In his 50's he is still in demand. Chrysler is an example of how

equity firms are destroying this nation.

[True Blue American]

75. You said it!

Good Engineers are hard to find. He had the pleasure of saying no when they asked him to come back and teach.

Now my Grandson is building award winning robots because of his Dad. In his second year of College,but I doubt in the Auto Industry.

[Demsrule86]

79. No they are laying off. And are hiring for electrical engineers...but I think we can expect more

foreign workers will be hired than American as the plants will likely be overseas. And jobs follow the plants in terms of location. So tired of this situation. We lose the garment industry, electronic industry, steel industry, call centers, probably a million auto job when all is said and done and other industries as well...where will it end? There is always someone willing to work for little pay somewhere in the world.

[True Blue American]

138. Oh Lord

And our Politicians are making it easier to do.

The company actually asked my son to come back and teach. He had the pleasure of saying no.

He knows he was lucky to get out when he did. But almost worked himself to death before he did. Stress is an awful killer and the average worker today is under that stress.

[Demsrule86]

156. The new tax bill foisted on us by Trump makes it financially beneficial to ship jobs overseas.

This is why the GM truck went to Mexico.

[True Blue American]

169. Trump aked Sherrod what

He could do to help. Sherrod told him to get rid of the 50% tax break companies get for gong overseas.

Was that in this tax bill?

Another note,have heard for years that Germans can buy cars here but their tariff is very high there for our cars.

[Demsrule86]

180. Yes it was ...oh they already got some money (too much) but the tax bill increased the amount.

[MichMan]

33. There are auto plants being built in the US

Detroit will get a Jeep factory, the Motor City’s first new auto assembly plant in a generation, as part of a $4.5 billion manufacturing expansion in southeast Michigan by Fiat Chrysler that will mean nearly 6,500 new jobs, the company announced Tuesday.

FCA said it would convert the Mack Avenue Engine factory to an assembly plant for the next-generation Jeep Grand Cherokee and a new, large Jeep SUV. In all, the company said it will add production at five factories in metro Detroit.

“This is the way the city of Detroit fights unemployment and poverty,” Mayor Mike Duggan said of the Mack Avenue assembly plant. “Standing here today, to be back in the city of Detroit, is truly remarkable.”

Market economist Jon Gabrielsen, who consults in the auto industry, called the plan "an absolutely huge commitment on the part of FCA; $4.5 billion is over half of FCA’s average annual global capital investment being spent in just one city.”
Gov. Gretchen Whitmer concurred, noting that the economic impact was broad.

“It’s much bigger than the city of Detroit,” she told the Free Press as FCA prepared to make the announcement public. “A lot of people in our state will have job opportunities.”

Whitmer said the plans are expected to bring about 5,000 jobs to Detroit and another 1,500 to Macomb County.

FCA Chief Executive Officer Mike Manley told reporters the investment will grow core brands and electrify Jeep vehicles. He said the company is making a strong play for the large and rapidly growing market seeking three-row SUVs, which is currently dominated by General Motors with its Tahoe, Yukon and Escalade.

"Economic indicators, as we see them, are strong," Manley said, explaining that the company is diversifying products to capture new customers and further strengthen Jeep and Ram products.


https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/2019/02/26/jeep-fiat-chrysler-detroit-plant-suv/2989129002/

[Demsrule86]

40. That is one plant. It can't make up for the loses.

[Bear Creek]

35. Tariffs are part

SUVs and trucks have been forced on people in this country. The SUVs are a truck body with a car top. They are classified as a truck so they do not have to meet pollution emissions standards. Also the insurance companies backed them since they kill. Deaths are cheaper than injuries.
If they come out with a energy efficient car they make it as ugly as possible so you will not buy it.
Putrump's tarriffs make me think that the only person is trying to make lose is all American workers from farmers to the assembly line workers.
I am wondering though who is left that has 75000 to buy a new truck? I am sure the top 1% drive Fords and Chevys right?

[Demsrule86]

39. My son can't afford to buy the truck he makes and he is relatively well paid.

Last edited Sat Mar 2, 2019, 11:29 AM - Edit history (1)

[True Blue American]

46. Funny you should mention that.

Henry Ford was the first to give his employees raises. When asked why he said,” So his employees could afford to but the cars they make!”

[MichMan]

54. That was not why Ford raised wages to $5 per day

It was to improve chronic absenteeism.

Since you used quotation marks, if you have a reputable source directly quoting Henry Ford with what you claim he said, I would love to see it.

[True Blue American]

58. No,it wasn't!

Ford employees had it good for a long time.

[MichMan]

70. Still waiting for the link to the quote you attributed to Henry Ford

I can however provide a link from the Henry Ford Museum backing up what I stated. Perhaps they know what they are talking about.

"Ford workers disliked the new assembly line methods so much that by late 1913, labor turnover was 380 percent. The company's announcement to pay five dollars for an eight-hour day compared to the previous rate of $2.34 for a nine-hour day made many workers willing to submit to the relentless discipline of the line in return for such high wages.

Crowd gathered at the Ford Motor Company's Highland Park plant, on Manchester Street outside Building M after the announcement of the five-dollar day, January 1914. As Ford production men surveyed the phenomenal productivity increases of their new assembly line methods, they also noted a disturbing by-product: the workmen disliked the system and expressed their displeasure by taking jobs elsewhere. By late 1913, even before assembly lines were fully implemented throughout the shop, labor turnover was a whopping 380 percent. People quit so often that in order to expand the labor force by 100 men, the company had to hire 963.

In January 1914, Henry Ford -- probably in response to the urging of James Couzens -- took perhaps his boldest step ever, one that transcended engineering. The company announced that it would pay five dollars for an eight-hour day. Since the previous rate had been $2.34 for a nine-hour day, this was a shocking announcement. The work in the factory was no easier, the pace no less relentless. But the pay was now so good that people were willing to do the work. In practice the new wage went only to people deemed "qualified" after an investigation into their private lives.

Nevertheless, the lure of the money was so strong that most employees put up with such paternalistic policies, however reluctantly. This bargain between Ford and his workers -- submission to the relentless discipline of the line in return for high wages -- would turn out to be as important as the Model T itself."

https://www.thehenryford.org/collections-and-research/digital-collections/artifact/35765/

[Demsrule86]

81. It was part of it

Ford spoke about this.

[Demsrule86]

69. Exactly. Pretty soon none of us will be able to afford cars.

I think part of the poor sales in cars is because younger buyers saddled with student loans can't afford to buy a car.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

131. Well, if you think that if you must pay at least 35k for a car,

then yeah, a lot of people won't be able to afford one.

I've NEVER paid anything close to that amount, and I'm genuinely shocked that that's apparently the current median (or average, whichever) price for a new car.

[Demsrule86]

160. When new cars are not bought...used cars become less plentiful and more expensive.

And consider that some cars will be removed entirely from our market.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

168. There will always be enough people who want a new car

that it's hard to imagine used cars becoming scarce.

I remember a similar panic back in the 1970s, during the first oil crisis. All of a sudden people started hanging on to their cars for a whole lot longer than they used to, and there were fears that used cars would disappear. Didn't happen.

What did happen was that American automobile manufacturers finally woke up and realized they needed to build cars that were more reliable, more like the European and Japanese cars that people were buying.

And here's something that surprised me: according to a quick online search the average car in this country is just over 11 years old. Which is a huge change from the 1950s and 60s when people who could afford it bought a new car every two years. And it seemed that very few people had a car that was more than five years old. People also drove far less then than they do now. The reliability of cars has increased enormously, which is a very good thing.

And some cars lose very little value in the first few years. Heck, when I went out to buy a car last year I fully intended to get a brand new Fit in no small part because of that. Alas, new Fits had disappeared because there was a flood in the factory in Mexico, suspending production for several months. Then I learned that the 2017 model was the last one with a CD player, which I absolutely wanted, and one such had come off lease at the dealership. I didn't save very much money over a new one, but I got the features I wanted. Plus I'm in awe of how far the technology had come in a 13 years. My previous car was a 2004 Civic.

People survive the disappearance of specific cars or even entire car companies. I knew people that owned Saturns and were unwilling to consider any other car. The one time I test drove one I was shocked by how tinny and cheap it seemed. That company went out of business a decade ago, although I still see the cars on the road. Customer loyalty can be powerful.

[Demsrule86]

181. There may be folks who want a new car but with further job losses , how man can afford a new? It

will be worse five years from now.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

197. I guess not a single new car was sold during the Great Depression,

right? And that new car buying plummeted during the Great Recession?

Saying that no one will be buying a new car is a sort of apocalyptic thinking that makes no sense. In fact, while a quick Google search shows that new car buying fell by some 75% from 1929 to 1932, it wasn't just the stock market crash that caused that drop, but that new car sales had gotten unsustainably high by 1929. But even then, more than a million new cars a year were sold at the depths of the Great Depression.

Here's a link: https://www.autonews.com/article/20170122/NADA100/301239893/the-great-depression-tested-nada-and-dealers-before-recovery-began

Here's a chart that shows how long people have kept a car originally purchased new.
?la=en

What may well be unsustainable is an average new car price of 35k, and the continued manufacture and purchase of SUVs. Most people don't need such an unwieldy and inefficient vehicle, but they've been bamboozled by advertising. Many of them actually have crappy cargo space. I used to joke that my Honda was a two, possibly a three body trunk, and people were astonished when I showed it to them. Minus any bodies, of course.

[Bear Creek]

48. That's big problem

The costs are not right. The car manufacturers even admitted it is not the labor costs. They are insignificant to the cost of the vehicle.

I am worried about this also. My son works at the Honda plant in Marysville.

[True Blue American]

61. The reason?

Politicians slowly but surely killed Unions.

If they did not sign diminishing contracts the companies moved,or theatened to move to Mexico or overseas.

[Demsrule86]

74. That is true. The stamping union at Lordstown killed itself so as to get a new product...

There were two union there for years.

[Demsrule86]

72. So far they are looking strong but the steel tariffs have to be hurting them as they use

American parts.

[MichMan]

63. Please educate me on why the biggest selling vehicles are crossovers then ?

Crossovers are NOT SUV truck based. They are the built on car platforms the same as sedans with different styling. They make up over 40 % of all sales easily making it the most popular segment


https://www.statista.com/statistics/276506/change-in-us-car-demand-by-vehicle-type/

[oldsoftie]

124. Thats nonsense. Vehicle death rates are FAR lower than they were before SUVs flooded us.

And i cant stand SUVs & have never owned one. But cars/trucks/etc are FAR safer than ever before. Death rates in recent years are about 40% below what they were in the 80s. Even lower if you go WAY back.

But you make a good point on the pricing. They're ridiculous. But obviously people are buying them or they wouldnt be making them.

[True Blue American]

139. So many features have been added on

That makes them more expensive. But I think a Chevy Malibu runs around $26,000.

[oldsoftie]

143. And thats another one you can run forever. Great engine.

I know two people who put over 200k on theirs with zero maintenance outside the regular stuff

[True Blue American]

147. Yep.

new one in the family. He loves it.

[MichMan]

50. Lordstown workers fear for future as GM prepares to 'unallocate' plant

Article from the Detroit News this week.

All of these plant actions are part of GM's larger restructuring effort to continue through 2020. The goal is to save cash and divert precious capital toward the expensive electrification, mobility and autonomy ventures that GM says will underpin its future. As part of the belt-tightening, GM is also laying off about 4,000 salaried workers globally this month.

The Detroit automaker's top brass, including CEO Mary Barra and President Mark Reuss, say they need to make painful moves now while the company is in good financial standing. For GM's plants, that means cutting slow-selling sedans while addressing a growing — and costly — excess capacity problem their predecessors did not fully resolve in bankruptcy.

For affected hourly workers, GM has been offering transfer opportunities, as is required by the UAW contract. Some 400 workers from Lordstown have accepted transfers since January. Another 560 from Detroit-Hamtramck have also transferred, with most landing at Flint Assembly.

GM also began distributing forced-transfer offers to Lordstown workers this month. The forced offers are to Wentzville, Missouri, where the automaker builds midsize trucks and full-size vans. Workers who refuse the forced transfers lose all remaining pay and benefits, and only retain recall rights to Lordstown should the plant revive.

Eighty workers have received forced-transfer offers this month, according to GM, and 12 have accepted. The automaker needs 100 more workers at Wentzville, and Lordstown is being targeted because it has an excess of workers already on layoff.

"As part of our efforts to place employees impacted by the end of Cruze production at Lordstown Assembly, GM needs approximately 70 more people in Wentzville, Missouri," GM said in a statement to The Detroit News. "We are filling these positions in accordance with the provisions of the UAW-GM National Agreement."

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/general-motors/2019/02/27/lordstown-workers-fear-future-gm-prepares-unallocate-plant/2940711002/

[Demsrule86]

83. I have seen the job offers as I have access to the website and workers are accepting those

jobs and I have not seen that many offered either. Offers are made to individual folks but you usually hear about it.

[Farmer-Rick]

51. Just all a part of how capitalism works

They make it with the least and cheapest labor possible while charging and pricing it as high as possible. Eventually it all collapses because the labor they underpay is the same market they sell to.

Soooo, in order to get the cheapest parts and labor possible they move to impoverished countries; paying impoverished wages. Then they turn around and look for markets they can overcharge, or monopolize or scam and con. But since they moved their jobs, the markets are not there anymore. In the end it all has to fall apart because you can't keep cheating the people you want to buy your crap.

[Demsrule86]

84. This is unfettered capitalism as existed pre- Roosevelt which lead to a great depression...

What we need is regulated capitalism and fair trade agreement...no agreements with low wage countries should be made.

[Farmer-Rick]

134. Some people wanted to save slavery by regulating it

They wanted to be able to teach slaves to read and write. They wanted slaves to learn Christianity. They wanted a limit to the amount of torture a master could use on a disobedient slave. Some, the ones who won out, saw no redeeming qualities in the economic system of slavery. They wanted to get rid of it totally and change to another economic system.

I wonder which camp will win out on the economic system of capitalism? Should we give the underpaid labor health care because they can't afford it? Should we limit how little a boss can pay their worker? Should we prevent bosses from sexually abusing their workers? These sound to my ear like trying to regulate slavery. In the end, reforming a bad economic system with regulation rarely reforms the system.

It merely makes an immoral system a little bit more palatable for a little bit longer.

[Demsrule86]

159. I am not a socialist and do not favor such an economic policy... I believe in regulated

capitalism with a strong safety net. You compare apples to oranges with the slavery comparison...completely different things.

[Farmer-Rick]

167. No the 2 economic systems I compare are not apples and oranges

I am not a socialist either. I just know there is something seriously wrong with the capitalist economic system.

They both controlled a large part of the economy.

They both have some amount of regulation or limits to them in order to function. - In American Southern slavery, only people born with darker skin were enslaved. In American 21st century capitalism, only people born without huge amounts of capital must sell their labor to keep from starving. In American Southern slavery, the slave had very little legal rights. In American 21st century capitalism, the poor have very little legal rights especially if they can not afford a lawyer. In ancient Roman slavery, having sex with both male and female slaves was all part of the benefits of owning people. In American 21st century capitalism, forcing an employee into having sex with you is all a part of being a boss or a rich man.

They both ensure profits continue to flow to the already rich and prevent the majority of those born into the lower rungs of society from escaping.

They both hijack the political system to ensure their unethical systems continue long after they stagnate and corrupt.

Just like in both Ancient Roman and American Southern slavery, people in a capitalist econmy can not imagine anything better and believe their economic system is a natural outcome of traditional markets and civilization.

[Demsrule86]

183. I referred to the comparison of slavery and socialism...

Not the same thing at all.

[True Blue American]

172. Right on!

[CDerekGo]

56. Said all along

When Ford announced that they were canceling ALL Car Production, and focusing on SUV's (overgrown Station Wagons) that what will happen when $4.00 a gallon gasoline happens? No American Auto Manufacturer will have any product to offer. Not even if it's produced elsewhere. Sure, Ford will continue producing Fiesta, Focus and Fusion elsewhere in the world, but those products are changing and won't be certified for U.S. Consumption.
Same with GM, FiatChrysler. They're all discontinuing production of small cars, hell not even importing anything and slapping a GM/Ford/Chrysler badge on it.
Yes, I' fully aware, if no one purchases a body style, doesn't make sense to continue to produce a model that doesn't make a business money. Where does it stop? I don't need, or want a pickup. Never forget having Home Depot Kitchen Associate watch me load up my VW Passat with 'box cabinets' (the type you have to construct) She commented "You need to buy a truck" My response? "I need a truck 3 days a year, the other 362, I have to put gas in it!" Yes, I got ALL of my cabinets home, and NO, I still don't have a pickup, tho Home Depot now offers 90 minute rentals for situations just like that day.
Guess it's going to take $6.00 a gallon to get folks back out of those 12 to 14mpg gas hogs, and back into something sensible. Cuz, let's be honest, for a good portion of us, we tend to drive alone. Future will tell.

[MichMan]

77. The Chevy Equinox gets 32-39 mpg on the highway

[Bear Creek]

95. Not good enough

The crossovers still considered truck which skirts pollution and safety.

[oldsoftie]

144. SOME are considered "light trucks" but not all.

Depends on capacity, footprint, etc.
But 35mpg is still double what we had 15 yrs ago

[marble falls]

59. Back in the sixties union members wanting a day off used to put a mask on and strike, and ...

no-one crossed the picket line. Only happened on nice summer days.

[True Blue American]

62. You are repeating fables.

You have no idea how workers strived to get decent wages after WW2!

Then the younger generation simply complained.

[marble falls]

71. Wrong. My family had the masonry contract for Lordsburg. I was there. We are a pro-union family ...

And I was there when they'd pull a wildcat strike. Our brick and block layers and mason laborers weren't able to get inside a few times for inside work.

[Demsrule86]

99. What is Lordsburg?

[marble falls]

126. Scuse me Lordstown. I was there when dirt was broken in '65/'66, you'll excuse an old brain.

You need to look up the labor history of Lordstown to get an idea of how it was back then. May I offer you a couple of links?

[Demsrule86]

161. I did and saw no mention of any wild cat strike...perhaps you have link...I texted a guy who worked

for Lordstown for about 50 years and he remembers no such thing. Thanks in advance.

[marble falls]

166. Hell, there was a wildcat strike in '96. Over more substansive issues, but still ...

here were tons of wakouts, wildcat strikes in the sixties and seventies. I knew people who worked there during the same period. I was actually there.

https://libcom.org/library/lordstown-struggle-ken-weller
https://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/06/business/06uaw.html

http://struggle.ws/disband/solidarity/lordstown.html

[Demsrule86]

184. You said they wanted the day of now it is substanual issues?

The second link is an embarrassment for you...written by globalist job stealing scum and right wingers...drips with contempt for workers. I would be embarrassed to post such a thing. Here is a quote.

It is amazing how much more perceptive management is to the real problems of modern industry than are the traditional revolutionaries, who can only think of the working class in terms of wages and consumption. Modern capitalism can, by and large, cope with the traditional type of economic problem, for instance those dealt with by Marx. it can continue to develop production. It is in difficulties, however, when confronted with a massive resistance to its values, priorities and whole pattern of authority. Such a resistance can have both economic and other repercussions." (why those Marxist union stop the greater good that these selfless 'Managers want to do for them...um is starvation and deprivation good? I think not.

Oh and by the way, your links are for the same article. Wages and consumption do count...and a libertarian socialist? Really.

You provided no information whatsoever for your...they want a day off so they strike claim...thus I conclude it is untrue.

[Demsrule86]

85. That is untrue and I wish you would self delete...we don't need fantasy stories

about how the unions did this...fact is we have a middle class because of unions.

[True Blue American]

148. And we are losing the middle class because of the desmise of Unions.

Some were not perfect but it was a rough business getting companies to pay decent wages and benefits to workers. It took guts on the part of workers to stand against them

[Demsrule86]

149. Yes and we are way worse off without them.

[True Blue American]

170. The post above is what Republicans love

To repeat about Unions.

[Demsrule86]

185. Yes...it is.

[Demsrule86]

94. I would appreciate a link to this ...if you know the circumstances since I found nothing on this...

[blueinredohio]

136. Is the story true

If you can't remember the name of the town? And you were supposedly there.

[Demsrule86]

158. Good point. The person said Lordsburg...no such place that I have ever heard of...union haters are

not always Republicans although they should be.

[blueinredohio]

173. I know, I worked with some in a union shop

Always downing the union but sucking all the benefits they could get. But they were republicans.

[Demsrule86]

187. Yep as they lose everything some Some who voted for these Republicans will have the added burden of

knowing they helped cause it.

[jalan48]

68. Unfortunately, the auto workers are like the coal miners. They are in an industry that's going out

of business due to climate change and refuse to believe it. The auto makers could switch to all electric cars and still employ some but where are the Americans who could afford these cars? Our government could massively subsidize purchases to kick-start the process but that's not going to happen because it's cheaper to build them in a third world country anyway. Welcome to the future.

[Demsrule86]

86. That is untrue...cars will still be made forever, we just won't be making them... because

of greed. Coal cost too much to dig up so it is not the same period....we don't make phones but we buy them. The same will be true of cars only we won't have the jobs and it will become an even shittier country in terms of inequality. Who will pay for the cost of single payer and low cost or free college...if we make nothing and generate no income....if our folks are left to fight for scraps? I have seen what happens to those forced to exist this way...suggest you pay a visit to Gary Indiana , Youngstown Ohio and Detroit and sadly I could fill this post with other areas.

[jalan48]

90. Our eco-system will no longer be able to support our fantasy lifestyles. Getting enough food

and water will be the primary concern of future generations. The days of a dream like Disneyland society are rapidly coming to a close.

[Demsrule86]

92. Oh please. Lets deal with the here and now. Green cars will repace gas burning cars.

People have to get around. As for the rest of your post, I think you been reading to many prepper articles.

[jalan48]

103. I wish we would deal with the here and now but we're too busy maintaining our fantasies.

[Demsrule86]

106. I always enjoy your posts but I think yours might be a bit of fantasy this time.

[jalan48]

110. Tell that to the Polar Bears my friend.....

[Demsrule86]

188. I have had few meaningful conversations with polar bears! hehe....just kidding. Have a great Monday!

[jalan48]

190. To you as well. We may disagree on some things but on getting rid of Trump and the Republicans

we are on the same side.

[Demsrule86]

193. We are on the same side. And I too think climate change is the most serious issue we face...just not

sure how we educate folks so it can be fixed in time. I will and you will do a happy dance the day that traitor Donnie leaves office.

[jalan48]

199. I don't know either, it's happening in slow motion which makes it harder to comprehend.

We can try and at least our chances are better with Dems-they don't deny it's real and that is an important start.

[Demsrule86]

205. This is true. Democrats will address climate change...might not be what you or I want exactly but

it will be the beginning. We have to win hearts and minds on this one...going to leave a mark!

[jalan48]

206. I agree. The young people are going to push. It's life and death for them.

[INdemo]

80. Could it be that Trump with his tariffs has found a way to destroy

another one of Obama's accomplishments when he found the avenue for GM loans and tireless work with Congress that saved the company?

After all Trump tried to destroy the ACA,he has found a way to do away with banking restrictions that protect consumers and much more

All this double talk from the idiot about saving these GM plants is just a smoke screen.

[Demsrule86]

87. I hope voters realize this.

[Bear Creek]

97. I believe you are right

Hurting families in the process. Not that he'd give a damn.

[MichMan]

89. Trying to understand how tariffs affected sedan sales and not crossovers

Not a fan of tariffs, but not sure how they are relevant to poor sales of the Cruze.

Don't crossovers trucks and SUV use more steel ?

[Demsrule86]

91. There is less profibility in cars -particularly small cars. The tariffs added $1200 per car

in the case of the Cruze made in Lordstown Ohio. It was unsustainable. Had the tariffs not happened, we might have gotten the truck plant sent to Mexico in Lordstown or somewhere else in this country. and the Lordstown might have made the Cruze longer and got a new product.

[Bear Creek]

101. Not true

Advertising and forcing a bad product on Americans that way the gas and oil industries got what they wanted. The auto industries put out cheaper product that had less regulations. And the insurance companies came out happy because it reduced their payouts. American families were left paying for all of it.
By the way the vehicles are made to last only 5 years.

[Demsrule86]

104. It is completely true...and I know this personally...because I have ties to Lordstown...and

your post shows that you really don't know what is going on. Regulation on American auto have increase over the years...not decreased. Insurance has nothing to do with this...other than wanting congress to continually make cars safer which has been costly for American cars...and some foreign models do not have to do this.

[MichMan]

108. Every vehicle sold in the US has to meet the same safety and emissions requirements

Regulations have most certainly increased the cost of cars. CAFE standards, airbags, rear view cameras, tire pressure monitoring systems etc etc etc.

As far as I know, the only vehicles that are not required to meet US standards are those 25 yrs old or older that are imported privately.

[Demsrule86]

189. It has nothing to do with cafe....smaller cars don't have the profit margin because there is a limit

to what folks will pay and we compete with other small cars who were not impacted by the steel tariffs. That is merely a fact and why few if any in the long run small cars will be built here...the Cruze will be built in Korea and Mexico...just not here.

[Bear Creek]

115. Do research

People do try to justify bad choices SUVs are just that. Bad product shoved down everyone's throat. If you think that insurance companies dont influence politicians you are mistaken. Suvs in accidents cause deaths and death payouts are cheaper than survivors. Gas and oil have been making out like bandits.
Trucks have less stringent regs than cars.

[MichMan]

117. Why are consumers walking past all the cars and buying Crossovers, Trucks and SUV?

Still don't understand how they are being forced ?

Toyota for example sold 343K Camrys 280K Corollas and 87K Prius in 2018 vs. 427K Rav4, 244K Highlanders & 245K Tacoma pickups.

Way more Crossovers, Trucks and SUV than cars

Who was forcing their customers to buy them? Salesman at the dealers under gunpoint?

[Demsrule86]

164. I told you I have ties to the Lordstown plant and the tariffs are why the plant is closing ....I

don't intend to debate that.

[oldsoftie]

174. 5 years? Oh for Gods sake. The average age of cars on the road TODAY is over 10 years.

Cars are made to last a helluva lot longer than those made 50 years ago. Remember, back when odometers didnt go above 99,000?

[MichMan]

102. But there were no price increases on the Cruze due to tariffs

Why did people stop buying them in sufficient numbers that caused 2 of the 3 shifts to be suspended a year or so ago?

It wasn't because of tariffs making them more expensive, it was because consumers weren't interested.

Tariffs may have played a role in why a newer vehicle wasn't allocated there, but has nothing to do with the poor sales of the Cruze.

Also, Chrysler is investing 4.5 billion in Detroit for a new Jeep plant and not in Toluca Mexico which also makes Jeeps, so go figure.

[llmart]

113. The American public is fickle and short sighted.

Gas prices have been relatively low compared to the W. years, so once again Americans jumped on the bandwagon and thought, hey, I'm getting a big ass truck or an SUV - the bigger the better. Some of us remember $4.00 a gallon gas and make no mistake about it. It will go back up. About a month ago it was $2.00 a gallon.

The great W. recession/depression wasn't really even that long ago. The collapse of the housing market wasn't that long ago. But what do I see in the last 4 or 5 years here in the metro Detroit area? People buying and building big houses once again.

Americans just never learn.

[Demsrule86]

163. The Cruze wasn't selling as noted, which cost the first layoff...but the second one

and the closing of the plant was due to the steel tariffs which added $1200 to the cost of a car...and consider that the Trump tax debacle makes it more profitable to make cars overseas.

[True Blue American]

140. Cost of steel for one thing

That is why Sherrod Brown has been fighting the tarrifs that are killing our steel plants.

Dumping from China of inferior steel is another. Trump is right on some of the tarrifs, wrong on others.

[sandensea]

107. Damn NAFTA, and Old Man Bush and his narco sidekick Salinas for foisting this on us.

Plus, NAFTA is the reason we have Cheeto in the Oval Office now.

He knows how much people hate it (and rightfully so) and exploited that very effectively - but in bad faith, of course, since he never intended to really do anything about it.

[Demsrule86]

155. Yep...and Clinton is too blame as well. He should never have forced Democrats to pass this disaster

much less signed it.

[sandensea]

175. Sad, but true.

In hindsight, he no doubt wishes Bush had been able to sign it before he left office.

But alas, Salinas decided to hold out in the closing months of '92, confident that a new U.S. president would give him a better deal.

You may recall that when Bush was asked why the NAFTA agreement was being delayed, he famously replied that, on the Mexicans' part, there was "too much Chicanery."

Not too prudent an answer, you might say.

[Bear Creek]

116. So now what

The biggest problem that is the root. People do not have enough money to spend. Even having a good paying job can't cover costs. Let alone paying for anything as large as a car purchase. And with robots going to replace by low estimates 40% of all jobs.

[Demsrule86]

154. That is not why Lordstown closed...it closed because of tariffs and slow car sales...bigger

more expensive cars are selling. We need jobs...and have now lost 1000's of good paying jobs.

[mnhtnbb]

118. This post made me think about my car history.

I will be 68 this month. I've owned 9 cars. Only 3 were bought new and only 1 was a new American made car: a Jeep Cherokee in 1988 when SUV' s were first on the market. My current car is a 2007 BMW wagon with only 59000 miles on it. I found it on line when it was 2 years old and flew to Cincinnati to drive it home to Chapel Hill, NC. I recently decided I'm going to keep it for as long as I can. I'm retired and living downtown where I walk to almost anything or everything. I probably drive the car no more than a couple of times a week.

My point is that baby boomers are still a big part of the population and many of us are looking to either give up driving or seriously cut back on the need for 2 cars/ family.

We need to be talking--as a nation--about so many things. Instead, we're distracted by a traitorous, lying con man who is focused on enriching himself through occupying the Oval Office and couldn't give a damn about the country.

I don't think this is going to end well. He must be removed from office and the Republican party which has enabled him must be relegated to the dust bin of history.

[Power 2 the People]

125. +1000

Dark day indeed.

[Demsrule86]

153. It is a dark day indeed.

[Blue Owl]

129. Then trump has the gall to go around hugging American flags

What a traitor...

[Demsrule86]

152. Yes he is an f'ing traitor.

[roamer65]

135. I LOVE MY 2017 CRUZE.

Best goddamn car I have ever had.

So of course than means GM has to kill the model.

GM is forcing me to buy a Subaru Impreza in about 4 years. Sigh.

[True Blue American]

141. The Malibu

Is the top seller now. i may have to go down to that.

[Demsrule86]

191. The Malibu is a great car. And last year,you couldn't give them away ...had there been steel

tariffs, I doubt they would have survived...course there is a new plant too. My college age daughter drove a Malibu 2002...great car bought from an old lady who drove it to church. One day she calls me...her car is on fire...I asked where she was...She says in the car! I told her,' get out of the damn car'! The entire car burned. It turns out she had not put a drop of oil in that car. She thought that there would be an idiot light to tell her when to change her oil, but this car was too old for that...sigh. I never thought to tell her that. But you would have though she would have realized after a certain amount of time that the oil needed to be changed...did tell her every 5000 miles for a car that age...Kids!

[True Blue American]

195. My Buick is still serviced every Spring and Fall.

I told the Service Manager, I know and ONSTAR tells me, but I am of the old school. He laughed.

The new Malibu parks, pulls you back if you drift. I like it so many really love that car.

[Demsrule86]

196. I love the new Malibu and would like to buy one but we have to wait until hospital bills are paid

for hubs surgery...he had spinal surgery five weeks ago...it went well, and he will live. I am feeling very thankful despite the bills.

[True Blue American]

198. Thank God for that!

Cars are just things, but Health is all important.

We need to fight for better Health care for everyone, but thank goodness your Husband is better! Nothing is better than that.

[williesgirl]

145. This is so sad. I was born & raised in Youngstown, OH and

remember a once-booming steel industry as well as the Lordstown plant opening. Lots of good paying union jobs. But, all that is history now. My heart aches for all those displaced/unemployed workers.

[Demsrule86]

151. To see the shuttered factories in Youngstown makes you realize the bullshit that has been foisted on

Americans with globalism...the idea that we would be better off competing with low wage workers is total crap and we have seen green jobs shipped overseas as well as white collar jobs. What we are left with is a a massive loss of job as Perot once stated...a rush to the bottom and the reward is a weak consumer centered economy which is unsupportable long term. This combined with tax cuts that targeted the top incomes created a huge inequality problem. It will never be solved by a universal wage where a majority of Americans would get very little money and the rich would live like feudal kings. We must bring back jobs with reasonable laws for outsourcing companies (carrot and stick) and tariffs for those countries that screw us...not like Trump's tariffs but one that actually work. We must also tax the rich and corporations.

YSU has been helping Youngstown to improve . While Tressel is not perfect, he has done some good things. And I see progress. But we just lost good paying auto (and parts) jobs- thousands of them in Ohio...and other areas. And for what? It is supposed to help the steel industry to issue tariffs...there is not enough steel left for it to work and steel pays some of the lowest wages in Ohio-less than Walmart for line workers. Compare that to the high wages in autos for line workers and you see why this was so damn stupid. And steel tariffs hurt companies like my husband's too ;They are a steel company that make parts for auto plants and parts plants as well.

More than likely Parma GM will close without Lordstown and a Ford plant may close as well due to parts supply issues...I am not sure Maryvsille is safe either...Honda plant. I wonder if this was Trumps way of further weakening the unions which it did. This is heartbreaking for our area but it is a blow to the entire country.

[Straw Man]

177. As long as labor is not free to cross borders ...

... the way that raw materials and capital are, then "globalization" is a sham and a lie: a race to the top for multinational corporations and a race to the bottom for workers who are trapped behind increasingly meaningless national borders.

[Demsrule86]

192. You are exactly right HP offer to transfer workers to India...these workers were met with hate

and death threats. My friend said they all left. She works for HP but who knows how long.

[MicaelS]

207. IMO, the best way to go is to buy a "Certified" Used Car.

With one of those, you will get a 7 year / 100,000 miles extended warranty, with a less than $100 deduction for repairs. That is a hell of a better warranty than any new car. Keep the car until the warranty expires, and get another.

[roamer65]

209. ...and so the truth comes out. GM is moving Cruze production to Mexico.

I refuse to buy vehicles not assembled in the United States.