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Tue Mar 5, 2019, 11:37 PM

RICO Slobby

Every so often, it can be useful to update things that were discussed before. In this instance, I'm looking back almost two years. On Sunday, March 26, 2017, I posted an essay titled “RICO Suave” on DU:GD. In this essay, I noted that my favorite source of information on the Trump-Russian scandal, Malcolm Nance, had said the FBI was conducting a Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO) investigation.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10028855710

We have heard numerous opinions on if a sitting president can be indicted. This is unsettled law. However, in the 1990s, it was determined that a sitting president could be forced to defend civil charges. This is important, because RICO charges can include both criminal and civil charges.

I had assumed at the time that James Comey was in charge of the investigation that would lead to RICO charges. A few weeks later, I anticipated that it would be charged by Mr. Mueller. Even after Mr. Mueller handed off the Michael Cohen business to the Southern District of New York, I figured that Mr. Mueller would handle the RICO bit.

A number of people – including guests on MSNBC and CNN – kept saying the SDNY was actually more of a threat to Trump than Mr. Mueller. This included several people that I have a lot of respect for. Being rather dull-witted myself, I decided to ask a few people with far greater insight than myself about why the SDNY was more of a threat?

Their answers, as best as I understood them, were three-fold. First, top prosecutors tend to charge and try those cases that they are very confident they will win. Those charges are not always for the exact crimes they had investigated. A prime example of this was Patrick Fitzgerald's investigation of possible violations of the Intelligence Identities Protect Act in the Plame scandal. He ended up prosecuting Scooter Libby on charges of perjury, obstructing justice, and lying to the FBI and grand jury.

I had hoped there would be more charges. Mr. Fitzgerald had, for example, suggested that Congress investigate VP Cheney's role. However, as one of those smarter-than-me people told me, Libby ended up a convicted felon, and Cheney was left a toothless old dog. (Curious that Trump pardoned Scooter.)

The SDNY will have a much easier time prosecuting the Trump “family business” on RICO than Mr. Mueller could have proven, beyond an ill-defined “reasonable doubt,” Trump's direct participation in conspiring with Russia. More, the SDNY will include the Trump business relations with Russian interests. This allows them to reach the goal of charging all of those involved. It will include things that were done before Trump entered the republican primaries, the entire campaign, the transition, and the corruption since Trump took office.

It is most likely that Trump will be listed as an unindicted co-conspirator on the criminal charges, and faced with civil charges. However, I was told that the SDNY might actually try indicting Trump. If so, it would likely be sealed until he is removed from office.

Finally, I was told that while Trump is accurately being described as behaving as a mob boss, there were two important things to keep in mind: He's not that bright. Trump had no real understanding of what the powers and responsibilities of the presidency included when he decided to run. And second, he's a fucking slob in all he does, who anticipates everyone else has to clean up his messes.

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Arrow 31 replies Author Time Post
Reply RICO Slobby (Original post)
H2O Man Mar 5 OP
gateley Mar 5 #1
watoos Mar 5 #2
watoos Mar 5 #3
empedocles Mar 5 #4
watoos Mar 6 #8
SunSeeker Mar 6 #18
empedocles Mar 6 #23
SunSeeker Mar 6 #24
YessirAtsaFact Mar 6 #26
SunSeeker Mar 6 #27
Hekate Mar 6 #5
yonder Mar 6 #6
3Hotdogs Mar 6 #7
watoos Mar 6 #9
SamKnause Mar 6 #10
dalton99a Mar 6 #11
spanone Mar 6 #12
Laura PourMeADrink Mar 6 #13
DoctorJoJo Mar 6 #14
SunSeeker Mar 6 #15
uponit7771 Mar 6 #16
EndGOPPropaganda Mar 6 #17
Hermit-The-Prog Mar 6 #19
democrank Mar 6 #20
malaise Mar 6 #21
coeur_de_lion Mar 6 #22
BSdetect Mar 6 #25
dawnie51 Mar 6 #28
Blue Owl Mar 6 #29
Beringia Mar 7 #30
H2O Man Mar 8 #31

Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Mar 5, 2019, 11:39 PM

1. When Malcom Nance talks, I listen.

Which reminds me, I think he has a new book coming out.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Mar 5, 2019, 11:46 PM

2. Thanks for the explanation.

I was basically flying by the seat of my pants when I posted that it looked like the SDNY was pursuing RICO indictments against the Trump organization. Luckily you explained better what I posted, thanks.

The thing for people to remember, and I'm guessing about this again, this will be a massive investigation with bunches of indictments. This trial is going to last a long time, hopefully justice is served and karma is served.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Mar 5, 2019, 11:49 PM

3. I want to add another comment,

because I expect Trump to go ballistic when the shit hits the fan. We need our presidential candidate to be tough as nails.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Tue Mar 5, 2019, 11:51 PM

4. Good read. Thanks.

Rico civil suit is 'interesting'.

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Response to empedocles (Reply #4)

Wed Mar 6, 2019, 12:15 AM

8. I don't think it is a civil suit.

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Response to watoos (Reply #8)

Wed Mar 6, 2019, 01:04 AM

18. RICO provides for both criminal and civil suits.

For example, victims can sue for treble damages, and the defendant need not have been convicted criminally under RICO. https://rico.uslegal.com/civil-remedies/

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #18)

Wed Mar 6, 2019, 07:10 AM

23. Right! Another angle to go at the crime family. Get around some of the defenses.

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Response to empedocles (Reply #23)

Wed Mar 6, 2019, 11:41 AM

24. And those unpaid contractors could get treble damages plus attorney fees.

But they'd need a good law firm capable of dealing with Trump's protracted legal shenanigans.

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #24)

Wed Mar 6, 2019, 12:30 PM

26. Trump won a lot of these cases by making a protracted case out of it

And running his subcontractors out of money they could afford to spend on legal fees.

SDNY won't have that issue.

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Response to YessirAtsaFact (Reply #26)

Wed Mar 6, 2019, 12:36 PM

27. Yep. nt

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2019, 12:02 AM

5. Excellent as always. I am so looking forward to the results of a RICO investigation...

...for which there are no presidential pardons.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2019, 12:02 AM

6. Thanks for another far too infrequent, well-written and thoughtful post, H2O Man.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2019, 12:12 AM

7. Does an indictment have to be approved by Billy Barr?

Or can he prevent it?

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Response to 3Hotdogs (Reply #7)

Wed Mar 6, 2019, 12:16 AM

9. Good question.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2019, 12:27 AM

10. Gerardo

"Rico Suave"









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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2019, 12:30 AM

11. Kick

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2019, 12:33 AM

12. K&R...

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2019, 12:36 AM

13. Question: if SDNY indicts and it is sealed, will it

Be secret? Or will we know there's a sealed indictment waiting for him? Important for campaign for sure.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2019, 12:41 AM

14. The Beauty of RICO Is That They Will Seize and Freeze All Assets. So Trump ....

... will end up so broke he will be giving hummers behind McDonald's for happy meals!

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Response to DoctorJoJo (Reply #14)

Wed Mar 6, 2019, 01:00 AM

15. Yep, RICO was made for Trump Org. nt

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Response to DoctorJoJo (Reply #14)

Wed Mar 6, 2019, 01:00 AM

16. +1

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2019, 01:04 AM

17. It's not RICO. It's never RICO

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2019, 01:05 AM

19. wannabe mob boss

The Trumps wish they could be an important cell in Putin's mob. None are smart enough or know enough. They're useful, privileged patsies for the Russians. They're also useful to our home-grown, Repug-nurtured oligarchs. That usefulness will come to an end as the criminal threads are unwound in public.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2019, 03:06 AM

20. Let's hope Mueller or SDNY takes the Trump Syndicate down.

Trump needs to go from vertical to horizontal....and soon.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2019, 05:45 AM

21. He is going down - love this

I was told that while Trump is accurately being described as behaving as a mob boss, there were two important things to keep in mind: He's not that bright. Trump had no real understanding of what the powers and responsibilities of the presidency included when he decided to run. And second, he's a fucking slob in all he does, who anticipates everyone else has to clean up his messes.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2019, 06:37 AM

22. Veeeeeeery interesting

He’s as stupid and lazy as he looks. Mueller investigation is important but he’s in more trouble than that. As long as he’s gone I don’t really care who gets him. SDNY, or Mueller.

I can’t understand how he still functions, with all these axes hanging over his head. The stress would kill me. But I guess I have a conscience. He doesn’t.

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Response to coeur_de_lion (Reply #22)

Wed Mar 6, 2019, 12:18 PM

25. He's a malignant narcissist with extreme delusions of invulnerability.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2019, 01:58 PM

28. If you caught that freak out...

of R. Kelly on CBS Morning Show, that's what Trump will do. I thought Kelly was going to be removed in a straight jacket there for a minute.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Wed Mar 6, 2019, 11:35 PM

29. Betchya he doesn't throw his own McD's wrappers away

If some lowly pee-on didn't do it for him, he'd be wallowing in his own filth 24/7...

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Thu Mar 7, 2019, 06:19 PM

30. This is off the subject

But I thought it was interesting. I was listening to a youtube video yesterday on Near Death Experiences, and the man talking who had one is Tony Cicoria. He is Chief of Orthopedics at Chenango Memorial Hospital, Norwich, New York, and Clinical Assistant Professor of Orthopedics at SUNY Upstate Medical School, in Syracuse. I recognized that is the area you talk about as being from. He mentions he recognized a special feeling for a woman, like he had known her before, and he said he saw her looking like an Indian Princess. Then he talked to her and she told him she used to take care of the chief of the Onondaga nation and he said she used to be an Indian Princess.

He talks about this at the 1 hour mark.

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Response to Beringia (Reply #30)

Fri Mar 8, 2019, 11:24 AM

31. I've known Tony

for over 30 years. He's a good man.

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