I'm a golfer. A fairly good one for my age.

[11 Bravo]

But here's the thing about golf. It's the only sport without a ref/umpire watching every move. We call penalties on ourselves. Among real golfers, cheats are reviled. After all, if you'll lie to a friend or a fellow competitor about your score, what WON'T you lie about? Crowd sizes? Adultery? Payoffs? Collusion?

I understand that the game has a bad rep in some circles as an elitist pastime; and while there may be some merit to that, it's not a fair representation of the sport as a whole. I grew up playing on what could charitably be described as poorly maintained cow pastures. (It sharpened my ability to scramble.)

Trump, on the other hand, grew up on tracks I would give my left nut to play. But instead of learning to respect the game and his competitors, he did what Trump does; ie: lie, cheat, and steal.

And that matters.

So fuck him.

And fuck every sycophantic Republican shithead that rolls over to excuse his every asshole move.

[htuttle]

1. I learned to golf on free, public courses in Milwaukee

Golf is as elitist as you want it to be, just like a lot of things.

Trump cheats at everything. He golfs as he lives. As a liar and a cheater. It's his nature.

[olegramps]

77. Golf is a for honest people. It relies on your integrity. Trump doesn't qualify.

If the ball moves while addressing it and you even playing by yourself and keeping score you record an additional stroke. That is how it is played. Total integrity. When I see Trump playing golf I want to vomit. He would push his grandmother in front of a bus for a buck.

[gratuitous]

2. Bowling doesn't have a referee unless you count the foul line sensor

Anyway, yes, in some circles it's enough to say a man cheats at golf and his character is torpedoed. I put Trump's cheating at golf in the same category as Dubya's babyish insistence that nobody could ride ahead of him when he went cycling. Even with Lance Armstrong along, nobody could ride in front of Dubya.

[PJMcK]

23. How would one cheat at bowling?

In the old days, you might write down an inflated score but there's not much you could do with the electronic scoring in use today.

More importantly, in bowling, your teammates and competitors are all standing near you and watching carefully as you roll your ball. In golf, your competitor might be a hundred or more yards away from you and unable to see if you improve your lie.

I'm probably over-thinking this. You're absolutely right that both sports usually don't have referees. And they're both great games.

[3catwoman3]

39. I'm almost 68. The last time I went bowling, I was 15. That was also...

...my score. I wish I could have cheated -

[PJMcK]

45. My family goes bowling every year on Boxing Day

There are usually a dozen or so of us and we usually play two or three rounds. My nephew is an excellent bowler and usually scores over 200.

If I break 100, it's a miracle!

[forgotmylogin]

59. You can still adjust the score on electronic lanes.

You just would need to do it when nobody is paying attention, and hope they weren't keeping track, and that they don't know how the scoring works.

[MarianJack]

58. I imagine that Bowling Green doesn't even have THAT...

...ever since the massacre.

RESIST!

[Lochloosa]

3. Totally agree. I've played for 45 years.

I grew up playing "cow pasture pool" on 9 bucks a round courses to TPC at Sawgrass.

I wouldn't think of cheating. Winter rules? Sure. But everyone was playing for fun.

But you can bet your sweet ass trump plays for money.

You don't cheat when there is money on the line.

[watoos]

22. I play with an 85 year old

Who plays from the senior tees and consistently shoots his age or better. I am 71 and play the middle tees so I only beat him half the time. We play in Pa. only once in a blue moon do we play winter rules, even when it’s really wet.
My buddy keeps score, if he sees anyone in our group rolling his ball he doesn’t mark down a score I have to laugh when someone asks him what he shot after 9 and my buddy says 28.
When you play the ball down on a cow pasture course it’s a different game.

[snort]

4. I cheat at darts.

[no_hypocrisy]

5. My father was a golfer.

He thought there was nobody lower than a player who cheats at golf.

He went so far as to opine OJ Simpson likely lied about the murders as he always found a way to avoid paying for losing at golf.

[TruckFump]

6. Golfer here.

Do not play much anymore because of my crippled hands -- Dupuytren's contracture -- used to be good, fairly good.

You are totally correct about Trump, IMO. It takes a real POS to cheat and cheat not only by improving your own lie, etc., but to sabotage your opponent? That takes a total shitwad.

[Scarsdale]

64. I played many years

on women's leagues. Since the scores determined who won trophies, it was important to keep correct scores. Still, a couple of women cheated, and it is irritating. I even gifted one of the cheaters with "prayer beads" to keep her score. She never used them. I decided that cheaters only fool themselves. We all knew who cheated.

[TruckFump]

69. Yeah, I played about 50 years and then had to quit.

My dad was an ace golfer and his father was a designer for MacGregor golf clubs. I think I had a golf club in my hand before I could walk!

IMO, cheat and you only cheat yourself -- applies to golf and many things.

[Lucid Dreamer]

7. Golfers penalize themselves. So do sailors...

In sailing you will find that competitors will penalize themselves, even as far as disqualification, for fouls that may occur miles from any other competitors, officials or spectators.

I like that about sailing and I like that about golf.

[ProfessorGAC]

8. Like You And Lochloosa...

...I started playing at around 10, am now 62, and am a 4.5 on a low cost, 6300 yard track.
At that club with about 40 full fee ( including cart) members, the rest just public, there is only about 4 people who one could call professional workers.
Me and 2 others, and all of us are retired. The 4th guy is an IT supervisor for a mid-size specialty retailer
Everyone else are truck drivers, heating/cooling, plumbers, factory workers, refinery maintenance guys, etc.
Not one doctor, not one lawyer, not one commercial real estate person, not even one car salesman.
Yet, nobody is a cheater.
It's not a place where the well-heeled can avoid the hoi polloi. Just a bunch of folks doing outdoor recreation.

[OriginalGeek]

9. I've never broken a hundred

even when we played every other week. (I used to work at a place that did 4 10 hour days so we always had Friday off and we went every payday to a local public course that was maybe 15 bucks during the high season including cart). I still have the clubs my boss gave me. Haven't played in many years but i will one day when I have more free time (it's cheaper during the week) and I'll be using that same free set of Dunlops. But I do need a new pair of shoes - most everyone seems to be going to soft-spikes and I don't have those.

One thing my boss and our other player taught me though was you get what you get. No gimmies and no foot wedges. Your honor is on every line of that scorecard. I don't think I could work for a person I knew cheated at golf. I don't know how those cravens can work for or play golf with that mango bastard.

[A HERETIC I AM]

27. You are an average golfer, then.

Most average people that play the game, when they score themselves correctly, shoot around 100.

Don't forget, shooting bogey golf (18 over par) is 90, which is pretty damned good, if you think about it,

[OriginalGeek]

68. lol, I was always thrilled when I got a bogey

our main course had a short par 5 that I birdied once and I thought the guys were gonna have heart attacks (they were both better than average golfers but didn't mind waiting for me while I got all my swings in).

[FakeNoose]

10. It's a gentleman's game, and Chump is no gentleman

He just takes advantage of everyone on the course. Probably ruins it for a lot of people too.



Edit to add: It's an honorable person's game, and Chump has no honor.

[Journeyman]

11. People I play with haven't kept score in decades. We have incredibly enjoyable days . . .

for all we're out doing is having a good time, trying to gain a small measure of success in the immediate moment.

If I hit an errant shot, out into rough grass, I sometimes kick it into the open and play on. And when I hit a beauty that soars and lands where I intended it to go, I smile, maybe pump a fist, then forget it and try to do well in the next moment.

For me, the game gives endless expression of the sentiment Lincoln extolled in his parable of the assembled wise men:

"It is said an Eastern monarch once charged his wise men to invent him a sentence to be ever in view, and which should be true and appropriate in all times and situations. They presented him the words `And this, too, shall pass away.'

"How much it expresses!" Lincoln exclaimed. "How chastening in the hour of pride. How consoling in the depths of affliction!"

Yep. I may not play the game the way some believe its intended to be played, but neither do I make a mockery of it. I simply enjoy it for what it is, a pleasant moment outdoors in the company of friends.

[gratuitous]

25. I read a column years ago about how golf was better than basketball

He said watching Michael Jordan soar to the hoop for a thunderous dunk was thrilling, but the writer said he'd never be able to do that in a million years. But on the course? He could hit a shot or sink a long putt that would be the envy of Tiger Woods, and for that one stroke, he could be the best golfer in the world.

I've never golfed, but I liked the comparison, which has stuck with me for many years.

[A HERETIC I AM]

28. I like that sentiment.

I will never forget the first time I landed one in the middle of the green on a par 3.

Tee to the middle of the dance floor! I was THRILLED!

[Journeyman]

42. Yeah, that's my joy in the game. I once sunk a 65 foot putt, all uphill, and for that moment . . .

everything was right in the world. It was all pure luck but I basked in the glory of my "skill."

I like your comparison. I couldn't touch the rim if I had a stepladder, but I have had those rare shots on the course.

As my brother is fond of saying, Every time you golf you're guaranteed to hit just enough good shots to want to come back.

[TeamPooka]

12. By cheating at golf Trump gets to pretend he's a winner in life. Deluded.

[Brother Buzz]

13. Hardy Greaves agrees

Rannulph Junuh:
You really love this game, don't you?

Hardy Greaves:
It's the greatest game there is.

Rannulph Junuh:
You really think so?

Hardy Greaves:
Ask anybody. It's fun. It's hard and you stand out there on that green, green grass, and it's just you and the ball and there ain't nobody to beat up on but yourself; just like Mister Newnan keeps hittin' himself with the golf club every time he gets angry. He's broken his toe three times on account of it. It's the only game I know that you can call a penalty on yourself, if you're honest, which most people are. There just ain't no other game like it.

[Perseus]

17. Great movie

I don't remember how many times I have watched it...and the kid is right, "you call penalty on yourself, if you are honest.".

One comment on people thinking Golf is an elitist sport...That is not true anymore, there are a few courses where I live where you can play 18 holes, with a cart for $15.00 or less, if you can buy the "Hot deal" you can pay $10.00, and it is a well maintained course, greens are slower that what i like, but they are true. It is a short course as it is slightly less than 6,000 yards, but it is very tough, you better hit the ball straight or carry 24 of them in your bag.

There are other courses like that where I live, longer, well maintained, they all present very good challenges, and you can still play for $18.00 or less on those. On one of them you don't even have to wear a polo shirt.

So...it is not elitist any more.

[ProfessorGAC]

20. Love That Scene, Buzz!

"It's hard, it's fun...". Dead on, Hardy
Funny story about that movie.
Guy I used to play with was NUTS about that movie. Theater twice, then bought DVD the day it came out.
I finally see it and told him I liked it too, I said, it was cool that Bagger was an angel.
He had no idea of what I was talking about.
Have never figured out how he watched it 50 times and didn't figure that out!

[Hekate]

14. Nicolle Wallace just had a sportswriter on who's just published a book on how Trump cheats at golf

...and what it reveals about his character. She had him on at the end of her show today and it was kind of hilarious. He says a lot of people are mad at him-- because they didn't think of this angle first.

Rick Reilly
Commander in Cheat: how golf explains Trump

[3catwoman3]

40. That was a most interesting interview.

My now 29 year old elder son was a big fan of Rick Reilly's Sports Illustrated articles.

[True Blue American]

62. He was on several shows. Said Trump was a decent golfer,

Did not have to cheat but cheated so much his caddies called him Pele, what ever that means.

[Hekate]

63. Pele is a soccer star famous for his ability to kick the ball. Trump kicks his golf ball...

...if he doean't like where it landed. Mostly he has his caddies do the cheating for him, though, by putting down another ball, or picking up his opponent's ball and moving it farther away from the hole.

[certainot]

67. i heard part of that and glad you referenced it here. sounds funny

i played a lot of golf years ago and it's hard to imagine the kind of cheating reilly described

i can't even stand people picking up the ball before it actually goes in the hole - no matter how close the last putt is. really hate it when someone does it to my ball as if doing me a favor. i have to hear the ball rattle a round in there.

[mahannah]

15. I love golf...trump gives it a bad name.

[Perseus]

18. the orange buffoon gives a bad name to the human race and everything he touches

he has the "unMidas touch", everything and everyone he touches is destroyed.

[B Stieg]

16. Well said! Thanks!

It's tough to make outsiders see the worthwhile personal challenges golf poses for its players.

[bluestarone]

19. Fully agree!

Golf is a great game of trust! I can just hear what golfers that play with tRUMP on any course are saying BEHIND his back!! I know they know what his score is!! Besides, that is what your handicap is all about! WHY CHEAT? Doesn't make sense!

[Kingofalldems]

21. This is Trump:

[Docreed2003]

24. +1

Lmao...love that flick!

[NewJeffCT]

33. I love it as well

great comedy - Bill Murray, Rodney, Ted Knight, Chevy Chase...

[NewJeffCT]

34. I bet you slice it into the woods... $100 bucks

[Docreed2003]

35. Big hitter the Llama...long

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

26. Ultimate frisbee, normally just called Ultimate, is self-refereed.

I've never played real golf, but played miniature golf at times. When my younger son was about five or six he'd cheat at that game, so rather than fight with him about it, I just decided we wouldn't keep score. Had a lot more fun that way, and invariably we'd all (me and both sons) would get at least one hole in one in a game.

I am not under any delusion that miniature golf is very much like the real game.

[Still In Wisconsin]

29. When I was a kid I was a caddy (for six years) at a very well-to-do country club...

We (the caddies) ALWAYS made fun of the cheaters behind their backs. ALWAYS. And this observation: the propensity to cheat seemed to correlate best to ONE attribute of golfers. No, it wasn't their handicap. It was how rich they were. Rich people like TRUMP often feel entitled to cheat I think.

[rufus dog]

37. Have you considered cheating is why they were rich?

Just saying, lacking morals allows a person to do better at golf and in business.

[Still In Wisconsin]

44. Lots of them (probably almost all of them) were born into their money.

But I'm sure they cheated to keep more of it and get even richer.

[rmac3075]

31. golf

Everyone who plays knows the guys who kick their ball from the heavy rough to the light rough etc. No one cares because we are out their to have fun; but screwing with someone's ball is unacceptable anywhere.

[moondust]

32. Only a pathetic little worm

would do the stuff he does on the golf course. Cheating, driving carts on the green. Ugh. To me he looks like a nerd swinging a golf club but the guy with the new book out about his cheating says he isn't that bad. I'd never play golf anywhere near him or his shitholes.

I play but I don't keep score so I don't always strictly follow all the rules. Very casual golf. My game is about half golf/half nature walk. One place I play occasionally has a couple deer hanging around in the woods next to one of the greens.

[PJMcK]

36. Golf reveals a person's character unlike most other activities

If you spend several hours with someone playing golf, you will garner an amazing insight into their personality. You will see how they deal with successes and failures, both big and small. You will get a picture-perfect view of their ethics and manners. And you'll discover if they are someone worthy of your time.

There are many stories about Trump's behavior on the golf course. But I have one from a personal experience, even if there are several degrees of separation.

In New York, there's a public course in the Bronx that's managed by Trump's golf company. It's ridiculously expensive but it's quite beautiful with panoramic views of the NYC skyline and the upper East River. On a par-3 hole, there's a big brass plaque alleging that in the inaugural round, Trump got a hole-in-one. It sounds to me like a claim Kim Jong-Il would make, and I just don't believe it. That's because Trump always lies and his arrogance knows no limits.

The story gets better! I play most of my golf on Long Island, about a 45-minute drive from Manhattan. I've made a number of good friends who work at the golf courses I play, (it's good to know the starters and the cashiers as well as the managers!). One fellow who is a groundskeeper at a state-owned facility told me that his best friend is the superintendent for Trump's New York course. When Trump scored his "ace," there were about a dozen holes cut on the greens so the greenskeepers could see how balls rolled on the new surfaces. Trump's tee shot went into one of the alternate holes, not the one with the flag stick in it! Obviously, he didn't care since he's a liar. Gotta feed the ego, ya know?

Golf-- and life-- are incompatible with liars.

I cannot imagine spending 4-5 hours playing a round with Donald Trump. That would be hellacious. And I hate it when someone cheats and thinks I don't notice it. It's insulting because only one of two things can be true: the cheater thinks I'm too unobservant to see the cheating OR the cheater thinks I'm stupid. Both are unacceptable.

I'm like you, 11 Bravo. If we're playing for fun, I don't care what score you claim. It's your company and the natural beauty I'm interested in. However, if we're playing a competitive game, then you have to follow the rules religiously. Otherwise the scores don't mean a thing.

[3catwoman3]

41. I cannot imagine spending 4-5 minutes...

...with Trump for any reason.

[PJMcK]

46. Yep (n/t)

[Codifer]

38. "Golf,

a walk in the park ruined."

Mark Twain

... but I do enjoy it.

[TantricBiker]

43. He Doesn't just cheat at golf

He doesn't just cheat at golf, he also drives the cart on the greens.

Am I the only one who remembers the pictures of him doing that?

On a positive note I offer the following true story:
When I was 12 I got a job at the Byron Nelson Golf Tournament counting cars as they came into the parking lot.
At the end of my shift I went into the trailer housing the tournament office.
I suddenly realized I was standing next to Jack Fucking Nicklaus. Just me, him, and one other person in the trailer.
He leaned over, looked me in the eye, introduced himself, and shook my hand.
I was just a kid, but he treated me with kindness and respect, the number one golfer in the world.
Nicklaus showed class when no one was watching. Pretty sure he doesn't cheat at golf!

Tantric Biker

[watoos]

54. Yeah well Arnie was my guy,

Jack played golf with Trump, I don't know how many times, but that doesn't sit well with me.

[Dave Starsky]

76. Jack's a Trumper, for sure.

I think a lot of big-time golfers tend to run Republican. They don't get to where they are without a lot of money behind them. I don't know many golfers who came up from a hardscrabble life and remember what it was like. Chi-chi Rodriguez, maybe?

[Brother Buzz]

81. One could make the argument Ben Hogan was the quintessential...

hardscrabble golfer.

[PJMcK]

57. He doesn't just cheat at golf

He cheats at business.
He cheats in his marriages.
He cheats his customers.
He cheats his lawyers.

With all of his cheating, he cheats himself.

[Dave Starsky]

70. Driving a cart on the greens is, in golf circles, truly outrageous.

To the extent that if you or I were ever to try it, the greenskeeper would murder us while the other golfers watched, and no jury with a golfer on it would ever convict him. That's how bad a sin that is.

[hughee99]

47. If you feel that strongly about golf cheats, you should probably avoid

Any stories about Bill Clinton on the course.

[ismnotwasm]

51. WTF

The topic is Golf and Trump.

[hughee99]

52. Actually, the topic is cheating at golf, and the OP infer a lot of things

About golf cheats in general. I was curious if they actually felt this way about golf cheats in general, and that the example of the big dog would make this clear pretty quick.

Look, there are a million things wrong with Trump, but if someone wants to point them out and starts with his golf game, I think they might need to re-evaluate priorities.

[zipplewrath]

55. Well, there's a difference that I suspect golfers would understand

Look, I play alot as a single which means I get paired alot with other golfers I don't know.
I see alot of rules broken. Some don't know the rules that well. Some just have "learned" rules that don't exist, a bit like Monopoly. There is a class of guys I call "fluffers" that ALWAYS roll their ball a little bit to improve the lie.

We generally don't call these guys "cheaters". IF we're competing against each other, we might agree before hand on what is permissible (which in itself is a violation of the rules). But generally, a guy that takes a generous drop, or quits on a hole and writes down a double par isn't really considered a cheater by golfers.

But what you NEVER do is screw with another player. You DON'T touch his ball. You don't talk or screw around during his swing, and you NEVER make his situation worse. Even more so, you will warn/caution a player if you think he IS about to break a rule.

But TRUMP for god's sake kicks peoples balls INTO sand traps. He drives across greens. And he trains his caddies to cheat for him so he doesn't get caught. I play WITH guys that I'm not competing with and they'll ask permission to "break rules" all the time. My general answer is "I don't care, it's your game". But if they screwed with MY ball, they'll eat it.

[hughee99]

56. There's definitely kinds of cheating that are worse than others.

And if you’re playing a friendly game amongst your foursome, people make up different rules all the time for that. I don’t really have an issue as long as everyone is playing the same rules. But if one is going to make a blanket statement about “golf cheats”, I’m going to assume they expect a strict adherence to the rules.

[zipplewrath]

65. Well, it was in reference to Clinton

Clinton took "mulligans" galore apparently. He may have been a major fluffer too IIUC. I never heard of him kicking someone else's ball into a bunker. And I never heard of him declaring himself "club champion" because of a score he personally reported from ANOTHER golf course after finding out the winning score.

[hughee99]

72. I've heard stories about him not counting strokes.

Not claiming a 7 that was really an 8 either, but turning pars and bogies into birdies. I don’t know if the stories are true (I’ve never golfed with any president), but that sort of thing would certainly fall into the flat out cheating category.

In either case, it seems like we’re debating which is worse. If one is the sort of person who thinks if someone cheats at golf, they’ll cheat at anything, I’m not sure it makes much of a difference.

[TNNurse]

48. My husband and I play some.

We look for less expensive options. We are not competitive. We only announce scores when we do well. I like it because of depth perception problems, other sports with balls coming at me were a problem.

We used to watch golf on TV, but he cannot bear the idea of watching a pro would play with Trump.

[Pepsidog]

49. It's the scorpion and frog story. It's in his nature to be a dishonest, lying scumbag.

[NastyRiffraff]

50. Trump always has to be the best at everything

but he never is. Not even close. It's amazing no one has called him out to his face on his cheating, but then he plays mostly with Republican sycophants like Lindsey Graham (who seems to LOVE to play golf with him). He's played with pros like Tiger Woods, Rory McIlroy, and Jack Nicklaus, none of whom called him on cheating. I understand why they didn't, but damn I wish they would have. He needs to be publicly humiliated.

[rurallib]

53. As a friend used to tell me: The best wood in his bag is his pencil

[11 Bravo]

75. Most golf course pencils don't have an eraser.

Trump's does.

[cannabis_flower]

60. I only played golf..

at Putt-Putt. I know it's not really golf, but that's as close as I got. My sister on the other hand played on the Marie's golf team and still plays in tournaments.

[dameatball]

61. Golf does not like me. I have played three times and every time I lost every ball in the bag and

went home. When you play as poorly as I do there really is no point in cheating. I did like walking around on the courses. Good exercise.

[zipplewrath]

66. 3 times?

It took me YEARS to break 100. It is the most difficult game in the world. The best in the world had a record in his hay day of about 25%. I need to teach you "beginners rules" so you lose fewer balls and have more fun.

[dameatball]

73. If I don't count the swings where I miss the ball completely I can break 200...:)

[zipplewrath]

74. Yup

I always think we teach it wrong. Start with putting, move on to "bump and runs", then "chips", then move on towards the full swing. Teach making SOME contact first. Then worry about winding up and killing it later.

[dameatball]

80. Funny you said that about putting first. Back in the early 90's after my divorce I tried to find

things for the kids to do when they came over. Couldn't afford to go to Disney, camping, shopping, etc, every other weekend. So we did canoeing, cooked out, etc. Ages 5-11 or so. Years before I was a sort of community park raised kid and during the summers we sometimes played what they called "Clock Golf."
Basically you bury an empty tin can in the middle of a circle and then measure out 20' or so to each mark on the hour hand. I bought a putter and a few golf balls at the flea market.
The kids always loved it. Yes, they cheated. We never lost any golf balls and none of us became President.

[Dave Starsky]

82. That's a great idea.

I remember spending hours on the damn driving range, before I even learned to putt. It was frustrating.

Now I'm an ace at putting and chip shots, but I still can't avoid slicing or hooking to save my life.

[DinahMoeHum]

71. "Not only are you a cheat. . ."

[ProfessorGAC]

78. I Just Now Watched That Movie!!!

Plate of shrimp! (That's from Repo Man)

[Mr.Bill]

79. I saw an interview with George Bush Sr. after he left office.

They asked him how life was different now that he was not president anymore. He said "I seem to lose at golf more often, now." I took this to be not a comment about him cheating, rather about people purposely letting him win because he was president.

[Kingofalldems]

83. He actually cheated a little kid.

Unfreakingbeleivable.