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Atticus

(15,124 posts)
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 10:44 PM Apr 2019

I think it is quite possible that Trump has no intention to leave the White House until he

has such iron control over the entire government that he is confident he can safely hand off to Ivanka. If that sounds implausible or even idiotic to you, aren't those the sort of adjectives we'd have used three years ago if someone had predicted that Trump would actually defy black-letter law that requires his tax returns be handed over and that he'd offer a pardon to a DHS acting director if he would defy court rulings and block asylum seekers from entering the US.?

Rules are meaningful only so long as both parties at least try to abide by them. Where one party ignores them, following the rules is simply an excuse for losing. "At least we stayed civil and respectful" won't console me one damn bit if we let Trump steal another election.

43 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I think it is quite possible that Trump has no intention to leave the White House until he (Original Post) Atticus Apr 2019 OP
I can see that happening........or, worse yet: CaliforniaPeggy Apr 2019 #1
once the new president is sworn in, Trump has zero power and only minimal SS protection. Grasswire2 Apr 2019 #4
That's right Thekaspervote Apr 2019 #15
I appreciate your explanation! Thank you for relieving my mind. n/t CaliforniaPeggy Apr 2019 #18
Tell them malaise Apr 2019 #26
Key word here Law ENFORCEMENT. kacekwl Apr 2019 #29
Not if the majority is on his side. blueinredohio Apr 2019 #30
not so Grasswire2 Apr 2019 #39
If he loses the election he becomes a private citizen on 01/20/2021, The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2019 #5
This is what Lawrence said leftieNanner Apr 2019 #14
Thank you for explaining this! I was truly worried. n/t CaliforniaPeggy Apr 2019 #19
+1000 smirkymonkey Apr 2019 #23
Yes. Imagine Trump being removed for the WH TrishaJ Apr 2019 #24
Federal employees, including military and law enforcement, take oaths... renegade000 Apr 2019 #6
Thank you so much! This is very helpful. n/t CaliforniaPeggy Apr 2019 #20
Did you see Assange get dragged out of the Ecuadorian embassy? We are going to do the same notdarkyet Apr 2019 #2
I will try to hold that thought! Mme. Defarge Apr 2019 #10
Great minds. nt UniteFightBack Apr 2019 #12
Lawless, and consolidating power. Grasswire2 Apr 2019 #3
Curious what makes you think that this would happen, GW? mr_lebowski Apr 2019 #13
It would be easier if we can get a majority in the Senate. Turbineguy Apr 2019 #7
Yours greytdemocrat Apr 2019 #9
A majority in the Senate would be great... friend of m and j Apr 2019 #34
Power is produced and reproduced by thousands of small daily acts struggle4progress Apr 2019 #8
I agree we can't lose focus on what we can do now but we can chew gum and walk at friend of m and j Apr 2019 #35
After he loses in 2020 and he doesn't want to leave...then we'll Julian Assange his ass. nt UniteFightBack Apr 2019 #11
If he refused to leave he would be escorted out of office so fast your head ... spin Apr 2019 #22
I agree that he even he knows they will be coming for him and friend of m and j Apr 2019 #36
Let's hope such a situation never occurs. ... spin Apr 2019 #42
Hopefully someone with warrants in hand will arrest him right after that moment. Grasswire2 Apr 2019 #16
"Will you accept the results ? " friend of m and j Apr 2019 #17
I personally do not believe the citizens of this nation would allow Trump ... spin Apr 2019 #21
K&R ck4829 Apr 2019 #25
We are ruled by a 21st-century Caligula dalton99a Apr 2019 #27
They did know how to get rid of Caligula katmondoo Apr 2019 #32
I just flashed on Malcolm MacDowell playing him in the X-rated biopic /nt localroger Apr 2019 #33
I think there is a lot of hyperbole and hysteria in this thread. onenote Apr 2019 #28
I agree. If Trump lost but refused to leave office there would be an uprising. .. spin Apr 2019 #43
He said yesterday that he had "the absolute power to..." TWICE dawg day Apr 2019 #31
It will not happen unless he has the military behind him. Hotler Apr 2019 #37
And once he is voted out of office he will not have the military behind him anyhow. The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2019 #38
He will be INDICTABLE on the steps of the Capitol that moment. Grasswire2 Apr 2019 #40
I only see two scenarios.... not_the_one Apr 2019 #41

CaliforniaPeggy

(149,298 posts)
1. I can see that happening........or, worse yet:
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 10:48 PM
Apr 2019

If he loses the election and still refuses to leave.

Is there a mechanism for getting him out of OUR White House?

He doesn't believe in the rule of law.........

Grasswire2

(13,564 posts)
4. once the new president is sworn in, Trump has zero power and only minimal SS protection.
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 10:58 PM
Apr 2019

He will be a mere citizen.

Is he going to barricade himself in the WH?

If so, at the witching hour of the inauguration of 46, some entity of law enforcement will remove him.

kacekwl

(6,994 posts)
29. Key word here Law ENFORCEMENT.
Sun Apr 14, 2019, 08:49 AM
Apr 2019

Right now the head of law enforcement is a trump stooge. Who by the way like the mounting number of local governments choose not to enforce the law.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,280 posts)
5. If he loses the election he becomes a private citizen on 01/20/2021,
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 11:00 PM
Apr 2019

and if he refuses to leave the White House at that time he's an unauthorized trespasser in a secure government building. I should think federal marshals could haul his ugly orange ass out of there just as they could any other unauthorized private citizen.

leftieNanner

(14,998 posts)
14. This is what Lawrence said
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 11:57 PM
Apr 2019

After the new president is sworn in, the US Marshalls will escort him out of our house. It's the time between November and January 20th that makes me nervous.

renegade000

(2,301 posts)
6. Federal employees, including military and law enforcement, take oaths...
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 11:06 PM
Apr 2019

to defend and uphold the Constitution of the US against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

This would be a textbook reason why that oath exists.

And yes, I'm sure there will be some idiots they either disregard this, or are so brainwashed that they believe anyone anti-Trump is a domestic enemy, but they are *not* the majority.

Grasswire2

(13,564 posts)
3. Lawless, and consolidating power.
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 10:55 PM
Apr 2019

Ms. Pelosi's "math" and "bipartisanship" are never going to happen. The "comity" of Congress is but a cruel joke. Look how DiFi got played in the Kavanaugh matter, with her "gentleman's agreement" with Flake and Grassley. Republicans are gutter fighting, mob fighting.

If Articles of Impeachment were filed now, Dems would immediately be able to acquire the Mueller Report in full and all underlying evidence. The dynamic would change immediately, and the American people would provide critical mass to propel adjudication.

The larger goal must be the immediate release of the evidence, whether or not impeachment seems feasible at this time.
 

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)
13. Curious what makes you think that this would happen, GW?
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 11:55 PM
Apr 2019

"If Articles of Impeachment were filed now, Dems would immediately be able to acquire the Mueller Report in full and all underlying evidence."

I think you mean to say "this is how it's supposed to work" ... which is potentially a far cry, unfortunately, from how it would work out in reality.

This is a lawless POTUS, a lawless AG, and a Senate Majority comprised of toadies (and Turtles) who also have no respect for the law.

IQ45 & Barr would absolutely NOT, IMHO, comply with any established laws surrounding impeachment proceedings, any more than they're complying with the law now.

friend of m and j

(220 posts)
34. A majority in the Senate would be great...
Sun Apr 14, 2019, 11:15 AM
Apr 2019

and we might even get a Conviction on the Articles of impeachment which the House would passed which would order order him removed from office. But that is still just a piece of paper. Unfortunately the founding fathers didn't give us a means of physically enforcing that order.

struggle4progress

(118,041 posts)
8. Power is produced and reproduced by thousands of small daily acts
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 11:38 PM
Apr 2019

Were Trump to refuse to leave, we could deal with it

Until then, let's focus on building what we need now

friend of m and j

(220 posts)
35. I agree we can't lose focus on what we can do now but we can chew gum and walk at
Sun Apr 14, 2019, 11:21 AM
Apr 2019

at the same time. I hope Nancy is giving some thought to a plan to physically remove him from the oval office.

spin

(17,493 posts)
22. If he refused to leave he would be escorted out of office so fast your head ...
Sun Apr 14, 2019, 03:08 AM
Apr 2019

would spin. I personally believe he knows that.

friend of m and j

(220 posts)
36. I agree that he even he knows they will be coming for him and
Sun Apr 14, 2019, 11:32 AM
Apr 2019

though he may be too stupid to come up with a plan to protect himself (he is not real good at planning) you can bet that Steve Banion and Stephen Miller have a plan to stop anyone from physically escorting him out of the oval office.

spin

(17,493 posts)
42. Let's hope such a situation never occurs. ...
Sun Apr 14, 2019, 01:19 PM
Apr 2019

If Trump refused to leave office I feel we would have an uprising in this nation. Things could get nasty quick.

Grasswire2

(13,564 posts)
16. Hopefully someone with warrants in hand will arrest him right after that moment.
Sun Apr 14, 2019, 12:39 AM
Apr 2019

He will be indictable in that instant.

Take him away, boys. A perp walk on the steps of the Capitol would be cool. We can dream about that for a moment, can't we?

friend of m and j

(220 posts)
17. "Will you accept the results ? "
Sun Apr 14, 2019, 01:08 AM
Apr 2019

That was a question that Trump was asked the day before the election in 2016. Trump responded to the audience " I promise you and the American people that I will totally and 100% accept the election results....if I win". Since then he has made no secret that he intends to stay in office as long as he wants to.

When China removed term limits on it's President and thus made him "President for life" Trump told Xi that he "liked that idea. Maybe we will have to try that someday".

After Mueler started his investigation of conspiracy between Trump and Russia and talk of impeachment started floating around Trump told his rallies that "I promise you that if the Dems and the "deep state" try to remove me from office there will be violence in the streets."

Micheal Cohen finished his testimony to a House investigative commitee, his last words were "If Trump is impeached or loses the 2020 election there will not be a peaceful transition of power".

In the last week he tossed out the idea that all this mess is just a attempted coup. I think that was just a piece of red meat he threw to his base to keep them fired up. I think his recent trip to the border also was setting the stage for what may transpire. When he was told by Secretary of Homeland Security that some of what he wanted to do was illegal and against laws and court orders, His response was "I don't care". To him the laws and the court orders are just pieces of paper. Congress nor the courts don't have police forces and so are not as powerful as he is.

Another act setting the stage is going around the chain of command and giving orders directly to Border Patrol and Ice Agents to not allow any of "them" to get across the border. Getting Law enforcement officers direct orders may come in handy if he has to order soldiers to defend the WH if anyone tries to remove him from office. He is not going to just sit in the oval office and wait on the Marshals to drag him out.

This gets us to a points that DU contributor and a few others made in another post; There appears to be no law enforcement mechanism to use against the Executive branch. If there is one that I don't know about who would give the order to remove him from office. And what happens if when the officers are confronted at the gates with several hundred soldiers and ex soldiers (likely members of white supremacy groups). Then we have a constitutional crisis.

side bar comment about Ivanka. If Trump wins 2020 I would not be at all surprised to see Pence forced out and given a Federal judgeship, then Trump appointing Ivanka as VP. The Trump legacy will be assured .


spin

(17,493 posts)
21. I personally do not believe the citizens of this nation would allow Trump ...
Sun Apr 14, 2019, 03:05 AM
Apr 2019

or any other president to declare he is president for life or violate the two term rule established in the Twenty-Second Amendment. They might allow a president to have three or more terms only if the Twenty-Second Amendment was repealed. The chances of that happening are similar to my winning the Lottery with a ticket I found laying on the street.

I also feel Bush the Younger ruined any chance of one family becoming a presidential dynasty again. No more possibility of Bush the Elder, Bush the Younger and Bush the Brother all winning the chance to sit behind the big desk in the the Oval Office. I wouldn’t give Ivanka much chance of becoming president as most people will feel one Trump was more than enough.





onenote

(42,379 posts)
28. I think there is a lot of hyperbole and hysteria in this thread.
Sun Apr 14, 2019, 08:26 AM
Apr 2019

If he loses, he leaves. You can bank on it.

spin

(17,493 posts)
43. I agree. If Trump lost but refused to leave office there would be an uprising. ..
Sun Apr 14, 2019, 01:30 PM
Apr 2019

The citizens simply would not stand for any attempt Trump would make to become a dictator. I feel many in his base would desert him at that point.

However we do live in interesting times.

dawg day

(7,947 posts)
31. He said yesterday that he had "the absolute power to..." TWICE
Sun Apr 14, 2019, 08:59 AM
Apr 2019

He loves that term "absolute power." It's his new thing. I certainly hope those GOP-leaning libertarians hear that. But they probably just hear his lie, "I will cut your taxes."

Hotler

(11,353 posts)
37. It will not happen unless he has the military behind him.
Sun Apr 14, 2019, 11:37 AM
Apr 2019

I also think there is a lot of top brass that does not like him.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,280 posts)
38. And once he is voted out of office he will not have the military behind him anyhow.
Sun Apr 14, 2019, 11:59 AM
Apr 2019

All he'll have behind him is goons like Keith Schiller and Matty "The Squid" Calamari.

Grasswire2

(13,564 posts)
40. He will be INDICTABLE on the steps of the Capitol that moment.
Sun Apr 14, 2019, 12:46 PM
Apr 2019

The moment the new president is sworn in.

Trump will be indictable and could lawfully be arrested.

Right then and there.

 

not_the_one

(2,227 posts)
41. I only see two scenarios....
Sun Apr 14, 2019, 01:10 PM
Apr 2019

turdface will have consolidated enough power to stay on indefinitely (our little political experiment being over)

or

turdface will not even bother to go to the inauguration, and will secretly already be on his private jet heading to Saudi Arabia, because he knows he is facing jail time.

He will, in no way, participate in a peaceful transition.

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