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Tue Apr 16, 2019, 06:50 AM

The apse of Notre Dame, post fire. Stunning picture



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Reply The apse of Notre Dame, post fire. Stunning picture (Original post)
Recursion Apr 2019 OP
lark Apr 2019 #1
JayhawkSD Apr 2019 #2
hlthe2b Apr 2019 #3
Wounded Bear Apr 2019 #15
Rene Apr 2019 #4
machoneman Apr 2019 #11
blaze Apr 2019 #13
Aristus Apr 2019 #14
Amishman Apr 2019 #20
GoCubsGo Apr 2019 #23
hack89 Apr 2019 #24
GoCubsGo Apr 2019 #25
Dyedinthewoolliberal Apr 2019 #26
hack89 Apr 2019 #28
mnhtnbb Apr 2019 #5
Recursion Apr 2019 #7
dalton99a Apr 2019 #9
Wounded Bear Apr 2019 #16
FakeNoose Apr 2019 #12
mnhtnbb Apr 2019 #18
JayhawkSD Apr 2019 #21
GulfCoast66 Apr 2019 #19
jmbar2 Apr 2019 #6
redstatebluegirl Apr 2019 #8
calimary Apr 2019 #10
IronLionZion Apr 2019 #17
msongs Apr 2019 #22
Historic NY Apr 2019 #27

Response to Recursion (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 07:54 AM

1. This is just gut wrenching!

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 07:58 AM

2. It's uplifiting, really.

 

The stonework is essentially unaffected. Look at the pulpits. Stone is the heart and soul of a medieval building. The roof can be rebuilt.

Some of the great windows were lost, but some survived. The great lady will live on.

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Response to JayhawkSD (Reply #2)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 08:56 AM

3. too fresh, too raw... We'll get to this realization, surely, but for now it feels a bit like

losing a beloved family member and being told you still have others...

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Response to JayhawkSD (Reply #2)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 09:39 AM

15. Not so fast...

Intense heat can deteriorate stone, make it soft and powdery. It remains to be seen how structurally sound the stone work is.

I hope its OK, but we don't know yet. Hell, they still have firefighters on flare up detail.

They'll rebuild it, but we don't know yet how extensive that rework will be.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 08:58 AM

4. There's not enough old Oak trees in all of Europe to use....will need metal

structure in roof.

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Response to Rene (Reply #4)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 09:17 AM

11. Yes, the mere size in girth let alone length...

precludes using real oak for the ceiling cross beams. Heck, even the wooden cross-walk up there was made of huge oak slabs cut lengthwise.

I've always marveled at the many USA based Mountain and West Coast resorts/eateries that were either built in the 1800's or had later re-purposed old and giant pieces of wood into ceilings and the like. All show exposed, soaring and magnificent rafters and cross-pieces. These trees (extremely large) though no longer exist IMO in Canada or the US.

The French will need to consider using steel, aluminum or maybe even some kind of carbon fiber for the new roof supports. I wonder too if they will use lead again for the roof 'shingles' not only due to modern environmental concerns (leeching of lead into ground water) but also the estimated 210 metric ton weight, as reported. Modern fireproof materials, far lighter and easier to obtain, could replace lead. Likewise the cross-walk, also hidden from view, could be re-made out of aluminum to lighten the load on the side walls, already weakened 80 years into the original construction, which lead to the brilliant use of the flying buttresses to solidify the walls.

Btw, I'll add that the carbon fiber (CF) idea isn't wild at all. The French Airbus conglomerate slready makes huge CF wings for the latest Airbus jet passenger planes quite closeby. That and another firm that makes equally huge blades for wind powered windmills.

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Response to machoneman (Reply #11)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 09:33 AM

13. This Twitter thread suggests they are prepared to rebuild




Down-thread a bit... claims these trees were planted for this very purpose.


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Response to Rene (Reply #4)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 09:36 AM

14. I wonder if anyone will think to offer American oak to the French for the restoration.

If we have any at all of the appropriate kind, we shouldn't hesistate to give it as a gift to our oldest ally.

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Response to Aristus (Reply #14)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 10:20 AM

20. I know the US has the oak

The sawmill I use for lumber regularly cuts PA white oak of suitable size. Expensive as heck, but available.

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Response to Aristus (Reply #14)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 02:39 PM

23. No. Just no.

I am sorry their church was damaged, but the last thing this country--or anyone else needs to be doing is cutting down their oaks or other hardwood trees, especially not in the quantities needed here. They take many, many decades to get large enough to harvest. Meanwhile, our forests are already being whittled down to nothing, at a time when we need them the most to fight climate change. If the US wants to donate something, let them donate some steel.

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Response to GoCubsGo (Reply #23)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 02:45 PM

24. Our forests are growing, not shrinking

80% of New England is presently forested. In the 1850’s it was 40%.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #24)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 02:57 PM

25. And, you are still losing 24.000 acres per year

according to Harvard University and the University of Vermont. And, New England is just a small fraction of this country's area. Deforestation is a hell of a lot worse elsewhere. Much of what is getting reforested elsewhere is pine trees that can be harvested again in 20 years.

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Response to hack89 (Reply #24)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 03:19 PM

26. Forested or Tree Farmed?

There is a big difference...……….

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Response to Dyedinthewoolliberal (Reply #26)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 04:26 PM

28. Forested in New England

People forget how NE was heavily deforested before the industrial revolution due to sheep farming. When the jobs and population shifted to the cities large swaths of the country side were abandoned and trees reclaimed the farms and sheep pastures.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 09:05 AM

5. This is what the stained glass looked like in the top row above the altar

before the fire




a view toward the altar before the fire




I took these shots in April 2017 when I was there. Posted a thread with my best shots from that trip here: https://www.democraticunderground.com/103669698

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Response to mnhtnbb (Reply #5)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 09:09 AM

7. The process of making some of those colors has been lost

We literally don't know what chemicals they used in the glass anymore.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #7)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 09:16 AM

9. Many workers also died of lead poisoning in the process

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Response to dalton99a (Reply #9)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 09:42 AM

16. Not just lead...

the bright colors required several different toxic heay metals.

I know it's blasphemous, but they'll probably end up with some kind of modern materials.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #7)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 09:22 AM

12. Yes that's true

Historic stain-glass windows would need to be replaced with modern materials and processes. However I read in another post that the windows of Notre-Dame weren't damaged though (miraculously!). So checking and cleaning smoke and ash would be required of course, but the windows are all there.

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Response to FakeNoose (Reply #12)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 09:53 AM

18. Not all the windows are there. That's why I posted the before photo

of the windows behind the altar. Post # 5

If you look at the photo in the OP, those windows are clearly gone. All of them.


That is the part of the Cathedral that was facing east. Morning sun would have lit all those windows behind the altar.

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Response to mnhtnbb (Reply #18)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 11:27 AM

21. They do appear to be gone.

 

On the other hand, I saw a morning picture that showed the big circular window above the main doors as being intact. Reports are that some of the narthex windows survived.

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Response to mnhtnbb (Reply #5)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 09:56 AM

19. They are the biggest lose IMO.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)


Response to Recursion (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 09:10 AM

8. Heartbreaking.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 09:16 AM

10. That image - with the cross so clearly delineated-

there’s something rather unearthly about that.

That which survives.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 09:48 AM

17. At least one firefighter was badly injured

but for the most part, the wooden interior can be rebuilt. The spire can be rebuilt with fireproof materials. And some wealthy French families have committed hundreds of millions of dollars towards the rebuilding effort. New construction jobs might employ some folks.

This better not be arson. Some news sources have claimed the authorities have ruled it an accident and ruled out arson for now but the investigation continues. RW media has already scapegoated immigrants, muslims, and minorities without any evidence.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 12:59 PM

22. no picture. broken link n t

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 03:47 PM

27. I think its going to be okay........

I was at Windsor Castle just before and after the fire...young people, crafts people, were working. I was dumbfound how many Americans were putting the plaster back together piece after piece. The cathedral at Ypres was totally destroyed during WWI, they put it back together one piece at a time.


The windows remained mostly intact...

[link:https://www.yahoo.com/news/notre-dame-smolders-investigation-begins-072837844--finance.html|

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