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G_j

(40,366 posts)
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 09:31 AM Apr 2019

Jimmy Carter takes call from Trump regarding China

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-jimmy-carter-china-war-infrastructure-economy-trade-war-church-1396086?fbclid=IwAR2RpWwUWl16RTUKx8GEMyCLsDtpQLFr-waLpu1Tfcl4HnOLIP8FFm8xJIw

Former President Jimmy Carter told a church congregation this weekend that he had spoken with President Donald Trump about China on Saturday, and said the commander in chief was worried that Beijing had outpaced its global rivals.

—-

Carter, 94, said Trump was worried that “China is getting ahead of us,” and suggested the president was right to be concerned.

“Since 1979, do you know how many times China has been at war with anybody?” Carter asked. “None. And we have stayed at war.” The U.S., he noted, has only enjoyed 16 years of peace in its 242-year history, making the country “the most warlike nation in the history of the world,” Carter said. This is, he said, because of America’s tendency to force other nations to “adopt our American principles.”

In China, meanwhile, the economic benefits of peace were clear to the eye. “How many miles of high-speed railroad do we have in this country?” he asked. While China has some 18,000 miles of high-speed rail, the U.S. has “wasted, I think, $3 trillion” on military spending. “It’s more than you can imagine. China has not wasted a single penny on war, and that’s why they’re ahead of us. In almost every way.”


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Jimmy Carter takes call from Trump regarding China (Original Post) G_j Apr 2019 OP
So glad Carter said this malaise Apr 2019 #1
Even when the principles are clear, what/who gives you the right to try to impose yours? Perseus Apr 2019 #21
Very well said malaise Apr 2019 #24
+1 Power 2 the People Apr 2019 #31
I would only argue that it's been the guise of adopting our "principles." It's always, always Maru Kitteh Apr 2019 #37
I completely agree malaise Apr 2019 #40
Nothing but the best snakeoil salesmanship on the planet! Maru Kitteh Apr 2019 #41
The most disturbing part of the attempt at global hegemony to me malaise Apr 2019 #42
At age 94, Carter would still make a great leader. panader0 Apr 2019 #2
The MiC is killing the US, thwarting its progress CousinIT Apr 2019 #3
idiot trump and President Carter FM123 Apr 2019 #4
not 100% accurate cojoel Apr 2019 #5
As much as I agree zipplewrath Apr 2019 #6
And we must make prevention of Chinese industrial espionage a priority. China is great at stealing Pepsidog Apr 2019 #18
These were pretty much my thoughts as well. pangaia Apr 2019 #29
You have to remember who Carter was talking to. Caliman73 Apr 2019 #43
Actually this was a public speech zipplewrath Apr 2019 #45
Jimmy will never get that time back.. dubyadiprecession Apr 2019 #7
Thanks for the laugh, true but funny Perseus Apr 2019 #23
Some great words from President Carter. Ferrets are Cool Apr 2019 #8
Wow. Excellent. We thank and love you Jimmy Carter. KPN Apr 2019 #9
Kick dalton99a Apr 2019 #10
I never thought of that, however Butterflylady Apr 2019 #11
Boy, is he right! PatrickforO Apr 2019 #12
No kidding. trump called HIM? calimary Apr 2019 #13
I know, that threw me for a loop too. smirkymonkey Apr 2019 #46
I think Carter is Trump's favorite living ex-President Polybius Apr 2019 #14
that is interesting as Carter is probably the most progressive president since FDR yaesu Apr 2019 #16
LBJ probably was - with Medicare, Medicaid, the expansion of food stamps karynnj Apr 2019 #27
Jimmy is the only one with no political bone with him Otto Lidenbrock Apr 2019 #26
Trump disliked W long before Jeb and him ran in 2016 Polybius Apr 2019 #56
My biggest surprise is that... N_E_1 for Tennis Apr 2019 #15
his corporate advisers would never give him the real dope & he's too stupid to figure it out himself yaesu Apr 2019 #17
And he called Jimmy Carter, for crying out loud. Dave Starsky Apr 2019 #34
Guffaw! N_E_1 for Tennis Apr 2019 #35
I imagine President Carter was just as surprised to hear from him. Dave Starsky Apr 2019 #36
that's good bdamomma Apr 2019 #57
"the U.S. has "wasted, I think, $3 trillion" on military spending" most going to red state welfare. uponit7771 Apr 2019 #19
And Trumps takeaway from this is ...... ? marble falls Apr 2019 #20
this needs to be broadcast far and wide. the orange asshole not only asked for help... Javaman Apr 2019 #22
The most warlike nation patphil Apr 2019 #25
Yep malaise Apr 2019 #32
Fear and anger are great motivators. Caliman73 Apr 2019 #44
How much money did we waste in Iraq so that Dubya could gain Daddy's approval? llmart Apr 2019 #39
Need our political candidates saying the same thing Auggie Apr 2019 #28
My hero - since I was in fifth grade. (nt) IndyOp Apr 2019 #30
What an amazing man Blue Owl Apr 2019 #33
Hasn't the man suffered enough? nt Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2019 #38
That's because some billionaires get rich when we are at war. C Moon Apr 2019 #47
The Left was right flamingdem Apr 2019 #48
SNL should parody this phone conversation Otto Lidenbrock Apr 2019 #49
I can't think of any industrialized nation that hasn't gotten or isn't getting ahead of it dflprincess Apr 2019 #50
K&R, bookmarked too yonder Apr 2019 #51
When I heard Trump called Carter about China DFW Apr 2019 #52
President Carter gets it. lpbk2713 Apr 2019 #53
And Trump shit himself in response Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Apr 2019 #54
Hard to believe trump actually asked someone, ANYONE, for advice on anything. oldsoftie Apr 2019 #55

malaise

(267,784 posts)
1. So glad Carter said this
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 09:37 AM
Apr 2019
This is, he said, because of America’s tendency to force other nations to “adopt our American principles.”

Sadly the principles aren't clear these days

The rest of the planet has more to fear from the US than the US does from the rest of the planet.
 

Perseus

(4,341 posts)
21. Even when the principles are clear, what/who gives you the right to try to impose yours?
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 11:07 AM
Apr 2019

Who says that your principles are better than someone else principles? what works for you may not work for somebody else. The problem is not only the principles, but the fact that those principles are pushed by money, the USA wants to have a McDonalds everywhere in the World, why? McDonalds is not good for people's health, and a lot of the countries around the World used to have great diets, fresh food, no Monsanto to deal with, no pesticides to pollute the crops, water, air with, and that is what the USA tries to push to other countries, to change the way they do business, the way they live, and most of the time is not good to change a healthy way of living for profits which eventually will go to doctors because now the health of the country has deteriorated. That is the real problem.

When you look at Evangelists in the USA, how good do they make Christianity look? How much better are Evangelicals to many of the extreme cults around the World? you want to export that? Why?

malaise

(267,784 posts)
24. Very well said
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 11:14 AM
Apr 2019

The only principle appears to be accumulating wealth by any means necessary.

That said I like rule of law although that has been under siege for centuries.

Maru Kitteh

(28,303 posts)
37. I would only argue that it's been the guise of adopting our "principles." It's always, always
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 02:49 PM
Apr 2019

been about an ongoing feeling of entitlement to all the planet's resources and maintaining global superiority, which are pretty much two sides of the same coin.



malaise

(267,784 posts)
40. I completely agree
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 04:05 PM
Apr 2019

but you have to admit that they sure can market the opposite of their intentions

malaise

(267,784 posts)
42. The most disturbing part of the attempt at global hegemony to me
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 04:18 PM
Apr 2019

is the spread of the racist evangelicals - that is some serious shit.

CousinIT

(9,151 posts)
3. The MiC is killing the US, thwarting its progress
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 09:42 AM
Apr 2019

Makes perfect sense. There's good reason Carter won the Nobel Peace Prize.

cojoel

(952 posts)
5. not 100% accurate
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 10:03 AM
Apr 2019

China has undergone a massive military buildup in the last 20 years, and is asserting itself over regions such as the South China Sea.

But it is true they have not engaged their military all over the world time and time again. I think that is what President Carter is describing.

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
6. As much as I agree
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 10:03 AM
Apr 2019

This is a bit misleading. China hasn't been at war, since Korea, because they have had an extremely limited capacity to do so. Projecting power is a difficult thing to do, and it isn't cheap either. They haven't gone to war with Taiwan because they knew we would protect them. Vietnam has a history in conflicts with China that encourage China to not try to project power there. And they aren't going back into South Korea any time soon. But they do oppress a few regions that might otherwise try to split from them. And all their neighbors are extremely wary of them.

And China hasn't been totally passive on this front. They are building a capacity to project SOME power. Not globally, but regionally. They've bought and converted aircraft carriers and submarines. They've built a capacity to attack satellites. And they are expanding islands in the South China Sea artificially and militarizing them. They are playing a very long game, but it does involve the intent on using military power to project power and control beyond their borders.

We spend way too much on our military power, although DU might not agree on what the "right" amount is. And the GOP has created more pointless wars as of late, but even Obama was limited in his capacity to wind them down. A growing China, much like a growing Japan almost a century ago, is a problem that shouldn't be ignored. But it isn't carte blanche to do "just anything" either.

Pepsidog

(6,252 posts)
18. And we must make prevention of Chinese industrial espionage a priority. China is great at stealing
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 10:57 AM
Apr 2019

and copying others innovations. China is similar to the USA pre WWII. I cannot imagine the progress China is making throughout the world while we are pre-occupied with Trump’s moronic policies, if you can call them policies. About the only thing I like about Trump, however, is like Reagan he is unpredictable which tends to scare other nations like China. I always said the perfect president is one with Obama’s brains and Trump’s balls

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
29. These were pretty much my thoughts as well.
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 11:55 AM
Apr 2019

China has grown it's power much differently than the US has. LONG GAME is it.. And they have one..

" But they do oppress a few regions that might otherwise try to split from them."

That is saying it very mildly. Continuing attempted genocide in Tibet. Their murderous policy in Xinjiang...

Caliman73

(11,690 posts)
43. You have to remember who Carter was talking to.
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 04:34 PM
Apr 2019

I think that he and President Obama could have quite the lengthy and nuanced conversation about the conflicts that China has had with its neighbors in the South China Sea and their current build up. He was talking to Trump however, so he had to use the most basic concepts possible and it is HIGHLY likely that Trump couldn't get what President Carter was talking about even with that simplistic information.

Regarding the wars, the problem is as others have said, that we insert ourselves into most parts of the world because of economic interests, not to spread democracy and benign leadership. We are in the Persian Gulf and Middle East because of the shipping lanes and oil, even though we get 10% or less of our own oil, our companies are the ones drilling and exporting a lot of it. We protect trade routes all over the world. We remain in South Korea because it is a major technology supplier to the US and rest of the world, plus we need a foot hold in case things heat up in Asia.

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
45. Actually this was a public speech
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 04:45 PM
Apr 2019

I suspect it was a severe summary just to make a particular point to this crowd. God I hope he talked at greater length and depth with Trump, although it probably would be valueless considering the "audience".

We have been in wars, as he said, most of our existence. One way or another they were all economically driven, whether Manifest Destiny, or the Barbary Coast. Heck, our Revolution was economically driven. That doesn't mean there were also other interests involved. It's hard to argue with Clinton's "wars". It's hard to argue with the start of the Afghan war. Even the Korean war is difficult to argue against, at least what started it. It's how we fight them, and end them, that often causes the most trouble. And none of this means that if we do nothing, the world will be a better place. When we defend shipping lanes, it's not just OUR ships, or our economies that benefit. When we try to intervene in genocides, it does have the effect of making SOME people think twice (just not enough unfortunately).

 

Perseus

(4,341 posts)
23. Thanks for the laugh, true but funny
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 11:10 AM
Apr 2019

The good thing is that Carter knows who he was talking to a bufoon.

Ferrets are Cool

(21,057 posts)
8. Some great words from President Carter.
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 10:15 AM
Apr 2019

I still find it difficult to believe that Agent Orange called him. His MagaTs are not gonna be happy bout that.

PatrickforO

(14,514 posts)
12. Boy, is he right!
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 10:25 AM
Apr 2019

Carter remains a great man, a wise man and a national treasure.

The only thing here that blows me away is that Trump actually called him up.

calimary

(80,693 posts)
13. No kidding. trump called HIM?
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 10:28 AM
Apr 2019

And not because the donald needed more fawning and shameless compliments?

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
46. I know, that threw me for a loop too.
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 05:00 PM
Apr 2019

The fact that Trump would call anybody for advice, let alone an ex-US Democratic President kind of astounded me. It will amaze me even further if it is shown that he actually listened and took the advice to heart.

Polybius

(15,235 posts)
14. I think Carter is Trump's favorite living ex-President
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 10:36 AM
Apr 2019

It's the only one he doesn't bash. Even Shrub gets bashed by Trump.

yaesu

(8,020 posts)
16. that is interesting as Carter is probably the most progressive president since FDR
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 10:53 AM
Apr 2019

& tRump is the most fascist president since Jackson, maybe opposites do attract.

karynnj

(59,474 posts)
27. LBJ probably was - with Medicare, Medicaid, the expansion of food stamps
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 11:26 AM
Apr 2019

and the whole Great Society. However ... there was the huge expansion of commitment - through lying about Tonkin Bay - of the Vietnam War.

I do think Carter might be second and think the effort he made toward a moral foreign policy may be unique among American presidents.

Otto Lidenbrock

(581 posts)
26. Jimmy is the only one with no political bone with him
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 11:22 AM
Apr 2019

He lied, smeared and hated Obama for years, turned against Bill because of Hillary and the Bush's because of Jeb.

Jimmy left Washington and active politics decades ago. He has no link therefore is no threat.

N_E_1 for Tennis

(9,593 posts)
15. My biggest surprise is that...
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 10:38 AM
Apr 2019

Blobo actually asked for advice. The action is comforting and disconcerting at at same time. Comforting because he asked for advice, disconcerting because he should have known this already. Looking for a different point of view maybe?

yaesu

(8,020 posts)
17. his corporate advisers would never give him the real dope & he's too stupid to figure it out himself
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 10:56 AM
Apr 2019

I mean, he's living in a self made stupidity bubble. Putin probably got right on the phone when he heard about this & set him straight.

Dave Starsky

(5,914 posts)
34. And he called Jimmy Carter, for crying out loud.
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 12:59 PM
Apr 2019

Did he pull the wrong card out of the Rolodex? Was he actually trying to call Carter Page?

Dave Starsky

(5,914 posts)
36. I imagine President Carter was just as surprised to hear from him.
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 01:46 PM
Apr 2019

I can also easily picture Trump blathering on and listening to what Carter's telling him, thinking the whole time that he's talking to Carter Page.

uponit7771

(90,225 posts)
19. "the U.S. has "wasted, I think, $3 trillion" on military spending" most going to red state welfare.
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 11:02 AM
Apr 2019

... Can you imagine where the issues like climate change or health care would be at if that much money was spent on those issues.

Javaman

(62,435 posts)
22. this needs to be broadcast far and wide. the orange asshole not only asked for help...
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 11:09 AM
Apr 2019

he asked a DEMOCRAT.

patphil

(6,024 posts)
25. The most warlike nation
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 11:20 AM
Apr 2019

Yes, that is our true legacy to the world.
We talk about freedom and peace, while our actions around the world are quite the opposite.
I was in the military during the Vietnam War. I saw how it's done.
Get the people riled up then point them at an enemy.
With the masses on board you can do just about anything.
The trillions we spend on our military, and the resulting wars we have either been in ourselves, or have had other countries fight for us, have produced incredible human misery around the world.
When will we ever learn?
There is just too little love out there.
Jimmy Carter is truly a great man.

Patrick Phillips

malaise

(267,784 posts)
32. Yep
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 12:21 PM
Apr 2019

I watched the rise of the anti-Muslim propaganda shortly after the Soviet Union collapsed.
Now Venezuela is their new Cuba. It's sickening - what's worse is how many intelligent buy the bullshit.

Caliman73

(11,690 posts)
44. Fear and anger are great motivators.
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 04:37 PM
Apr 2019

The logic centers of your brain shut down when the limbic system (flight/fight/freeze) are activated. One of the reasons why the military does so much training in muscle memory techniques. When you are scared crapless, you want your limbic system to remember how to load and shoot.

llmart

(15,499 posts)
39. How much money did we waste in Iraq so that Dubya could gain Daddy's approval?
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 02:51 PM
Apr 2019

How many lives and how much money are we/have we wasted in Afghanistan? I remember how so many Americans mantra was "blow them people back to the stone age" as if they weren't already living in the stone age. Our media was and is complicit in beating war drums for whatever war action du jour happens to be occuring at any given time.

Until this country gets a grip on it's warmongering and power hungry macho trip, we will never make any real progress in issues that really matter.

Otto Lidenbrock

(581 posts)
49. SNL should parody this phone conversation
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 05:52 PM
Apr 2019

You cannot get two more contrasting men who both occupied the Oval Office. Maybe Dan Ackroyd can reprise his Carter impression - minus the moustache!

dflprincess

(28,057 posts)
50. I can't think of any industrialized nation that hasn't gotten or isn't getting ahead of it
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 09:12 PM
Apr 2019

whether it be with their safety nets or new technology.

But at least the defense contractors are doing well.

yonder

(9,631 posts)
51. K&R, bookmarked too
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 11:25 PM
Apr 2019

Great words from a great man - pretty much sums up what steps we could take to change.

DFW

(54,047 posts)
52. When I heard Trump called Carter about China
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 11:51 PM
Apr 2019

I thought the call was to inquire as to where China exactly was?

Trump obviously trusts neither his own State department nor his own Defense department (hmmm, maybe he's not so stupid after all), and the only living former Republican president (who actually did the job) is Dick Cheney, whose foreign policy didn't turn out so well, though he was able to put Bush's name on it. Trump hates both Obama and Clinton, and has no idea who John Kerry is. He was probably running out of names.

lpbk2713

(42,696 posts)
53. President Carter gets it.
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 11:59 PM
Apr 2019


At age 94 President Carter gets it.

Meanwhile, Trump can't even put together a coherent sentence.

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