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Tue Apr 16, 2019, 11:14 AM

My anti-vaxer niece just let me know her 3 year old has a 102 temp

Fever and chills. I'm rapidly spiraling into a deep worry state.

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Reply My anti-vaxer niece just let me know her 3 year old has a 102 temp (Original post)
Siwsan Apr 2019 OP
NightWatcher Apr 2019 #1
Siwsan Apr 2019 #5
Ilsa Apr 2019 #8
Siwsan Apr 2019 #13
pnwmom Apr 2019 #21
NightWatcher Apr 2019 #25
Siwsan Apr 2019 #27
NightWatcher Apr 2019 #35
pnwmom Apr 2019 #20
Iggo Apr 2019 #23
Siwsan Apr 2019 #24
TheBlackAdder Apr 2019 #2
Siwsan Apr 2019 #9
Codeine Apr 2019 #12
Codeine Apr 2019 #3
Siwsan Apr 2019 #7
Codeine Apr 2019 #11
Big Blue Marble Apr 2019 #4
Siwsan Apr 2019 #6
MissB Apr 2019 #10
Siwsan Apr 2019 #14
hlthe2b Apr 2019 #15
honest.abe Apr 2019 #16
Siwsan Apr 2019 #17
Ilsa Apr 2019 #18
Edim Apr 2019 #19
pnwmom Apr 2019 #22
Renew Deal Apr 2019 #26
Siwsan Apr 2019 #28
Renew Deal Apr 2019 #29
shenmue Apr 2019 #30
Siwsan Apr 2019 #31
shenmue Apr 2019 #32
brewens Apr 2019 #33
Siwsan Apr 2019 #34
3catwoman3 Apr 2019 #36

Response to Siwsan (Original post)


Response to NightWatcher (Reply #1)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 11:24 AM

5. She's up and her usual active self

I'm hoping she's misread the thermometer. And I'm NOT calling the police. They are all at her grandfather's house so he's there, with them and will let me know if the temp doesn't go down.

She started on her Immunizations, when she was an infant, but then my nephew started down the conspiracy road. They are VERY militant vegans (and I'm not being hyperbolic) and with his dark net conspiracy beliefs, they are very difficult to deal with, when it comes to anything health related.

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Response to Siwsan (Reply #5)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 11:49 AM

8. She may have some protection, but no guarantees,

if they passed on round 2 boosters.

Make certain the child's temp is monitored, and she may need to be checked for strep throat. Or Meningitis if it gets worse.

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #8)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 12:03 PM

13. I'm keeping in close touch

I STRONGLY suggested they get some Children's Tylenol and/or Children's Motrin.

I'm a little worried about exposing myself to something, but I might just suck it up and head out, if things don't change. It's kind of a touchy situation, though, because the parents are heavily invested in their 'clean' lifestyle and very resistant to any advice. That didn't stop me from slipping in a mini lecture.

Oops - she just said the temp is starting to go down and they will go get the tylenol.

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Response to Siwsan (Reply #5)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 03:52 PM

21. My pediatrician always said their behavior was the key thing.

If they have fever of 102 or even higher but are acting normal, then they're probably okay and you can just watch them and push fluids.

If they are LISTLESS, regardless of fever, get them medical help.

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Response to Siwsan (Reply #5)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 04:13 PM

25. I read it wrong, sorry. I took it to mean you thought she had measles already.

I would only call the cops in a matter of severe live or death situations.

I'm going to delete the above as to not keep my misrepresentation out there to confuse.

My bad, hope she's better soon.

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Response to NightWatcher (Reply #25)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 04:17 PM

27. I know you meant well!

It sounds like she's getting back up to speed and she can be a really active kid. Her poor parents!!

I wish I could get through to her parents. One of my nephew's maternal uncles is a family physician. He lives down in Florida so he's not in a lot of contact. I'm considering getting in touch to see if he might be able to start a subtle conversation that will convince them they are making a serious, and potentially dangerous mistake by not finishing up her vaccinations.

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Response to Siwsan (Reply #27)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 05:39 PM

35. That sounds like a good idea.

Maybe the uncle doesn't know that they're missing their shots and this will get him on the case of checking on them and encouraging them to get fully vaccinated.

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Response to NightWatcher (Reply #1)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 03:49 PM

20. THAT would be madness, if she doesn't want to destroy her relationship

with the parents.

Even fully vaccinated small children, when they get a fever from a cold or a flu, will often spike a high fever.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #20)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 04:00 PM

23. Yep, vaccinations don't prevent fevers.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #20)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 04:11 PM

24. Thank you!

I'd never take that route. Her mom let me know that she's up, eating strawberries, drinking water and asking for noodles.

I likely over reacted because I worry about my little grandniece. My vaccinations, as a child, were pretty minimal and I had all of the usual childhood illnesses with no after effect - save for what turned out to be a moderately mild case of shingles, last year. I was uncomfortable but weathered through.

But when I was a child, I was also much more exposed to other kids, and down in the dirt and creeks outdoors playing. And, I was fed a very nutritious and BALANCED diet. I'd hope that my little sweetie, most likely, could sail through as I did, but why should she, if it isn't necessary. And why take the risk that she can't??

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Response to Siwsan (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 11:16 AM

2. Alternate between Tylenol and Motrin every four hours. If needed, a cool bath. Stay hydrated.

.

And by cool bath, luke warm. It will feel cold to the kid. Use a cup to pour water over body and back of head (if needed).

.

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Response to TheBlackAdder (Reply #2)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 11:50 AM

9. I just got off of the phone, with her

And gave her all of that advice. The mom practices Reiki, which she seems might be an effective treatment. Not that there isn't a place for Reiki, in the world, but I think a sick child calls for a bit more scientific based intervention.

I also suggested they go out and buy another thermometer, and see if they get the same reading. I have no idea how old the one is that they are using. They found it, stuck away somewhere in the house. It might be one from when my sister was still alive, and she's been gone for over 4 years.

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Response to Siwsan (Reply #9)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 11:58 AM

12. Reiki?

Jesus Christ, what a loon. No offense, of course — you’ve obviously got your shit together.

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Response to Siwsan (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 11:19 AM

3. 102 fever?

Is she anti-Tylenol as well? There is no need to let a fever rage in a little one. Children’s Tylenol goes down easily and works well.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #3)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 11:28 AM

7. I'm going to mention the children's Tylenol

As long as it's a liquid, and has ABSOLUTELY NO ANIMAL PRODUCTS, I'm sure she'll use it. The mother is a hard core, read the fine print vegan.

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Response to Siwsan (Reply #7)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 11:57 AM

11. I've no issue with that.

So far as I am aware it’s vegan. Now that said, I’ve been a vegan for thirty years this month, but if my kid is sick they’re getting whatever meds are required, regardless of source.

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Response to Siwsan (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 11:22 AM

4. Has she called the pediatrician?

Young children spike fevers rather easily. But they should be under the care of a doctor.

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Response to Big Blue Marble (Reply #4)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 11:26 AM

6. They are visiting from out of town.

I'm keeping in contact. My bro-in-law does have a good doctor they can call.



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Response to Siwsan (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 11:52 AM

10. Well febrile seizures are pretty scary

If they’ve never experienced one, they’ll likely panic if it gets to that point.

I’m hoping that your great niece/nephew will be just fine.

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Response to MissB (Reply #10)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 12:05 PM

14. Her fever is starting to go down

I pushed and pushed, and they've agreed to buy some Children's Tylenol.

They just have to accept that Reiki and elderberry juice aren't the Panacea to all illness.

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Response to Siwsan (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 12:07 PM

15. I echo calling the pediatrician. While vaccine preventable disease like measles is an issue, odds

are that the fever may be nonspecific viral, or an early indicator of an ear or throat infection. Young children get short term fevers for all kinds of reasons, but she should be encouraged to at least get a phone consultation.

Suppressing the fever may make the child feel better, but if it is bacterial, such as many ear and throat infections, without seeking appropriate care it could seriously delay therapy. Untreated otitis can lead to deafness, for example, and untreated strep throat can likewise be serious. At least making the inquiry of the pediatrician will allow them to monitor the situation and to ensure that the child is seen when absolutely necessary.

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Response to Siwsan (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 12:16 PM

16. 102 is not really dangerous for a 3 year old.

Also, depends if this is under arm or anal or mouth. Under the arm registers lower temp. We usually don't give medicine to our toddler until 103 F mouth or anal. Also, depends how the child is reacting. If acting weird or not eating or puking then call doctor.

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #16)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 12:25 PM

17. She is monitoring and said the temp has gone down by over a degree

She ate something, earlier, but isn't particularly hungry, now. I told them to keep her hydrated - maybe make popsicles out of juice.

It's just difficult, with their lifestyle, because all of the common sense advice tend to fall on deaf ears.

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #16)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 02:49 PM

18. Usually add one degree, roughly, to

Convert axilla to oral temp. If 102 under the arm, she'd probably register about 103 oral. Anal is the best source since it is core and not affected by a drink of cold or hot food.

But you probably know this already, so I'm just providing an extension of your post.

Glad the little girl is doing better now.

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #16)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 03:47 PM

19. I agree

with you and with this:

"Fever is a protective adaptive response that should be allowed to run its course under most circumstances."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4703655/

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Response to Edim (Reply #19)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 03:54 PM

22. Thank you. Yes. n/t

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Response to Siwsan (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 04:15 PM

26. 102 for a 3 year old is not a big deal on its own

Kids get sick.

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #26)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 04:20 PM

28. I think I'm just hyper reactive, due to her lack of vaccinations

She's my only grand niece and is destined to be an only child.

Maybe when more babies start showing up, I'll regain my rationality! And I know for a fact that any future kidlets WILL be fully up to speed with their vaccinations because their potential parents are realistic.

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Response to Siwsan (Reply #28)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 04:29 PM

29. I would be disturbed about the vaccine situation too

That’s ridiculous.

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Response to Siwsan (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 04:34 PM

30. Take her to the hospital. Get her vaccinated.

If you can't do that, just take her to the hospital.

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Response to shenmue (Reply #30)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 04:43 PM

31. The fever has abated

She's finally asking for food (Fruit and noodles. She loves noodles) and sucking down the water.

The flat out truth is, I've lost so many close family members, lately (5 in the past 4 years) that my first reaction, now, is to panic.

I'm just going to have to keep trying to convince them they are acting in a VERY irresponsible way. It's just really hard. My nephew hasn't really dealt with his mother's death, and he's turning to some really whacked out sources to rationalize his fragile emotional state. Nothing we say has any credibility. Strangers on the internet? They are the authorities he listens to.

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Response to Siwsan (Reply #31)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 04:45 PM

32. Okay.

Just do your best

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Response to Siwsan (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 05:03 PM

33. My girlfriends oldest daughter is a semi-anti vaxer. From what I gather, she gets her ideas on what

to allow and when from the internet, so the kids do get some vaccinations.

She's also a horrible housekeeper and has six kids. It was an annual event that a seriously ill grandkid was taken to the nearest city for medical care. When I use your bathroom, and there is not even hand soap, I know no one is even washing their hands like you should. I always hear the whole household is sick in the cold and flu season, it's no wonder.

One time years ago, we were sitting right there when she wiped one kids runny nose with a washcloth, then a little later used it to wipe jelly off the next oldest kids face, and the kid called her on it! Even a third freakin' grader knew better! Quarantining a sick kid in their room and taking the usual sanitation precautions, not an option in that household. You'd think someone suspicious of vaccinations, would make double sure they didn't need one if they could.

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Response to brewens (Reply #33)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 05:28 PM

34. Yikes!

Except for the vaccination situation, my grandniece is well cared for. Her mom is a bit of a neurotic (she had a very traumatic childhood) but both parents love her to pieces. It's their fanatical lifestyle that concerns me. And, I can't help but wonder what will happen if, once their daughter gets more exposure to the big, outside world, she decides that austere vegan lifestyle just isn't for her. I readily admit that I hope she turns out to be just as big a rebel as I was.

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Response to Siwsan (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 07:12 PM

36. Pediatric nurse practitioner here, with 43 years.

..in the trenches. I will offer you what I call my “Fever 101” lecture (pun intended). I have given this information to worried parents more times than I can count in my now lengthy career.

First point - fever, in and of itself, is seldom dangerous. The 2 times that it is are not related to infection, which is quite fascinating. Those 2 times are heat stroke and malignant hyperthermia, which is a bad reaction to an anaesthetic gases. There are dangerous illnesses accompanied by fever, but it is the illneses that are dangerous, not the fever.

Second point - fever has benefits. It slows down germ growth and speeds up white blood cell production. There is thinking among immunologists and infectious disease docs that over-management of fever may result in illnesses lasting longer because we are interfering with the body’s attempt to heal itself.

Third point - the goal of fever management is to bring the temp down enough to feel more comfortable, but not necessarily down to normal. We want the fever to do its work, but not to feel miserable while it does.

Fourth point - 102 is NOT high in a young child. 104 is. Someone above gave the excellent information that her pediatrician said behavior is always a huge factor. That is absolutely correct. If kids are what I call “hot and happy,” it is perfectly OK to just watch. Intervene when they get cranky. Fever reducers usually start Wednesday raking in abut 30 minutes.

Fifth point - Tylenol can be dosed at 4-6 hour intervals, and Motrin at 6-8. I would not recommend giving Motrin every 4 hours. The using both approach has rather fallen out of favor as there is potential for overdosing, and advising the use of two agents adds to fever phobia, making the situation sound so dire that a single medication is not enough. It is sometimes still recommended for fever of 105 or for kids prone to febrile seizures. Not for 102. Febrile seizures occur in about 4% of kids, and are scary but, happily, usually do not cause harm.

Sixth point - if a child perks up on either Tylenol or Motrin, that is very reassuring. If there is a serious diagnosis like meningitis, over-thecounter fever reducers ain’t gonna do it.

Your niece’s situation sounds well within typical illness patterns. Fevers can lead up to 5 days before peds folks start to worry that we need to do a lot of investigating, as long as the child continues to perk up when the fever reducer is given. count 24 hour periods from onset of symptoms, not the names of the days of the week. A child who develops a fever at 10 PM on a Monday night has not had a fever for 3 days at noon on Wednesday - not yet 48 hours. It is important to count properly, so as not to worry too soon that something has lasted too long.

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