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Tue Apr 16, 2019, 06:06 PM

 

I think if we need to wait for bipartisanship before impeaching

Then it renders the process worthless.
We're going to be waiting a long time.

"Impeachment is so divisive to the country that unless there's something so compelling and overwhelming and bipartisan, I don't think we should go down that path, because it divides the country."

I disagree with Nancy on this bipartisanship requirement and called my Representative to ask him to push for starting the process.

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Reply I think if we need to wait for bipartisanship before impeaching (Original post)
SHRED Apr 2019 OP
TwilightZone Apr 2019 #1
SHRED Apr 2019 #3
Pachamama Apr 2019 #29
NewJeffCT Apr 2019 #106
Grasswire2 Apr 2019 #11
onetexan Apr 2019 #61
uponit7771 Apr 2019 #64
Hortensis Apr 2019 #35
uponit7771 Apr 2019 #45
AncientGeezer Apr 2019 #2
uponit7771 Apr 2019 #22
Hortensis Apr 2019 #42
uponit7771 Apr 2019 #43
Hortensis Apr 2019 #50
uponit7771 Apr 2019 #52
Hortensis Apr 2019 #55
uponit7771 Apr 2019 #57
maxsolomon Apr 2019 #108
Hortensis Apr 2019 #110
maxsolomon Apr 2019 #111
watoos Apr 2019 #4
SHRED Apr 2019 #6
Grasswire2 Apr 2019 #13
Mr Tibbs Apr 2019 #78
Grasswire2 Apr 2019 #89
Pope George Ringo II Apr 2019 #94
Mr Tibbs Apr 2019 #100
Nevermypresident Apr 2019 #5
SHRED Apr 2019 #7
Grasswire2 Apr 2019 #14
Pachamama Apr 2019 #33
uponit7771 Apr 2019 #41
Karadeniz Apr 2019 #8
SHRED Apr 2019 #9
mtnsnake Apr 2019 #20
uponit7771 Apr 2019 #65
Fiendish Thingy Apr 2019 #10
loyalsister Apr 2019 #109
brooklynite Apr 2019 #12
Grasswire2 Apr 2019 #15
ehrnst Apr 2019 #17
uponit7771 Apr 2019 #24
ehrnst Apr 2019 #67
brooklynite Apr 2019 #18
mtnsnake Apr 2019 #19
uponit7771 Apr 2019 #26
FBaggins Apr 2019 #66
uponit7771 Apr 2019 #69
FBaggins Apr 2019 #71
uponit7771 Apr 2019 #82
Kurt V. Apr 2019 #36
uponit7771 Apr 2019 #38
Mr Tibbs Apr 2019 #112
uponit7771 Apr 2019 #23
RandiFan1290 Apr 2019 #46
uponit7771 Apr 2019 #53
Pope George Ringo II Apr 2019 #86
brooklynite Apr 2019 #96
Pope George Ringo II Apr 2019 #97
Buffalo Soldier Apr 2019 #105
brooklynite Apr 2019 #107
ehrnst Apr 2019 #16
DFW Apr 2019 #25
uponit7771 Apr 2019 #30
DFW Apr 2019 #37
uponit7771 Apr 2019 #40
DFW Apr 2019 #47
uponit7771 Apr 2019 #48
DFW Apr 2019 #54
uponit7771 Apr 2019 #62
ehrnst Apr 2019 #76
bearsfootball516 Apr 2019 #77
uponit7771 Apr 2019 #80
bearsfootball516 Apr 2019 #84
uponit7771 Apr 2019 #85
Pope George Ringo II Apr 2019 #88
uponit7771 Apr 2019 #91
Pope George Ringo II Apr 2019 #92
uponit7771 Apr 2019 #79
ehrnst Apr 2019 #95
uponit7771 Apr 2019 #27
Nevermypresident Apr 2019 #75
Pope George Ringo II Apr 2019 #93
Poiuyt Apr 2019 #21
DFW Apr 2019 #28
uponit7771 Apr 2019 #32
Pachamama Apr 2019 #39
uponit7771 Apr 2019 #44
Pachamama Apr 2019 #56
uponit7771 Apr 2019 #59
mnhtnbb Apr 2019 #31
uponit7771 Apr 2019 #34
DFW Apr 2019 #49
uponit7771 Apr 2019 #51
DLevine Apr 2019 #58
Mike Nelson Apr 2019 #60
uponit7771 Apr 2019 #63
Oneironaut Apr 2019 #68
uponit7771 Apr 2019 #70
Oneironaut Apr 2019 #73
uponit7771 Apr 2019 #81
Oneironaut Apr 2019 #87
uponit7771 Apr 2019 #90
Oneironaut Apr 2019 #98
uponit7771 Apr 2019 #99
Oneironaut Apr 2019 #102
watoos Apr 2019 #72
uponit7771 Apr 2019 #83
kentuck Apr 2019 #74
EveHammond13 Apr 2019 #101
guillaumeb Apr 2019 #103
KPN Apr 2019 #104

Response to SHRED (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 06:14 PM

1. Conviction and removal from office requires bipartisanship.

As for what renders the process worthless, that would be an impeachment without a conviction.

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Response to TwilightZone (Reply #1)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 06:18 PM

3. The impeachment process

 

Would bring forward such compelling evidence I think it would force the Senate's hand.
At the very least it would get their votes on record.

If we don't be brave and start then we will never know.

Furthermore, I think not doing it makes our party look weak and we lose votes.

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Response to SHRED (Reply #3)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 04:40 AM

29. I agree with you Shred....

I also believe that even if the impeachment then failed to bring removal from office, the evidence would be public and so overwhelming that the public would be so outraged that the 2020 election would find Republican House and Senate members voted out of office swiftly....along with Trump.....

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Response to Pachamama (Reply #29)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 02:39 PM

106. Not sure what would happen after the House votes

let's say that the House votes to impeach Trump and they get maybe 20-30 Republicans to go along with it because of the evidence presented in public and behind closed doors (national security) is so compelling. So, that's maybe 260 or so votes to impeach and 175 against it.

Is Mitch McConnell required to have a trial in the Senate, or could he sit on it and not allow a vote like he does with so many other things passed by the House? Not to mention sitting on Merrick Garland for a year.

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Response to TwilightZone (Reply #1)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 07:30 PM

11. removal from office is not the necessary goal here and now

The necessary goal is filing the Articles of Impeachment and beginning the process, which allows Dems in the House investigatory powers that can produce information that will propel the electorate to repudiate Trump.

The GOAL is bigger than impeachment itself. The GOAL is to galvanize public opinion against Trump and Republicans ASAP.

Think strategically.

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Response to Grasswire2 (Reply #11)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 05:40 AM

61. Agree, swaying the public opinion by getting the truth out

Is the best thing we can do ahead of 2020

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Response to Grasswire2 (Reply #11)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 05:46 AM

64. +1, lying to congress during impeachment process nets greater consequences than just a slap on hand

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Response to TwilightZone (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 04:47 AM

35. +100. Democracy is NOT worthless, and its processes

must play out. And yes, they need to be improved against the next time our electorate might vote to give an intensely corrupted party control of the senate as well as the presidency. In the meantime, we protect.

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Response to TwilightZone (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 05:02 AM

45. Then don't move for conviction or removal, use impeachment to stop the stone walling & lying

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 06:16 PM

2. To what end...Speaker Pelosi can count votes. There may not

be enough House votes to get out of there....to actually impeach in the House?

Then what?

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Response to AncientGeezer (Reply #2)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 04:20 AM

22. Impeachment process negates KGOP stonewalling and ability to lock folk up who lie to congress

... about issues during impeachment process.

Basically stops the bullshitting.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #22)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 04:54 AM

42. No, it doesn't. The SENATE would control the trial.

Today's senate is extremely corrupt. They'd manipulate it to show the entire nation that the Democrats are trying to illicitly remove a president we don't like. And that they're the saviors.

Where we are now is far from the worst things could be. We could lose the power of our vote and with it our personal freedoms and democracy. I'm convinced they've decided on that solution to the demographic and social progressions that guarantee they will lose elections until the white man's party no longer exists. And they have a lot of support among the electorate, including those right here who want to discard the very democratic principles and processes that make up our fortress.

When the necessary elements come together, we will act.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #42)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 04:57 AM

43. This is false on its face, and we don't have to move to convict or for removal. I don't know

... where you got that from.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #43)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 05:12 AM

50. So, impeachment as a shit-kicking exercise?

What some probably imagine is strength appears to others as weakness.

With no payoff for being criminally stupid, and potentially dreadful cost, perhaps we should exercise a little self control instead. Maybe take up some nice, calming hobbies because what took decades to evolve won't be fixed for some while. There's no magically satisfying shortcut.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #50)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 05:17 AM

52. No, just harder for KGOP to stonewall and lie to congress without consequences

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #52)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 05:22 AM

55. Tiny payoff at best, huge costs, but gotcha.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #55)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 05:31 AM

57. I disagree the pay off is tiny, sending these bastards to jail for lying to congress after ....

... the house brings them before them for questioning is huge.

Right now there's no obstruction of justice charge that can be brought its just lying to congress which is not a crime any longer seeing it's seldom enforced.

Also, Barr has already said congress wont get the full report unless there's an impeachment process brought.

Barr can't go to congress and lie like he did in the 90s about the OLC procedures either.

With an impeachment the consequences for lying and stonewalling get serious ... jail time is added on

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #42)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 03:18 PM

108. You're wrong on how the trial is conducted in the Senate.

The House managers of Impeachment function as the prosecutors.

Roberts would be the presiding judge.

Senators are the jury.

I remember BECAUSE THE GOP DID IT <20 YEARS AGO.

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #108)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 03:38 PM

110. That's right, thanks for pointing it out. Rehnquist presided.

Wish this reality was more reassuring, but it involves huge elements of uncertainty and even bigger dangers. If Roberts joined the Republican corruption to protect the president from accountability to the people, the consequences would almost certainly ultimately extend far beyond just failing to remove.

I'm sure our congressional leaders and their advisers have plotted out every conceivable path and outcome. How on earth do they sleep, even with the hours they work?

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #110)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 03:43 PM

111. Ambien.

Well, that's how the Bush Administration slept after invading Iraq.

I prefer Roberts over any of the other 4 Repuke assholes on the court.

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 06:31 PM

4. This is why Democrats don't vote,

 

Not enough Ted Kennedy’s, Al Frankens and AOC’s.

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Response to watoos (Reply #4)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 06:35 PM

6. You've got to fight

 

Not move deadlines, deliver strongly worded letters, or issue subpoenas you don't intend to enforce.
None of that works.
None of it.

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Response to SHRED (Reply #6)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 07:36 PM

13. the perception of weakness kills any momentum!

..and allows Team Trump to set the narrative.

The American people cry for strong leadership from Dems.

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Response to Grasswire2 (Reply #13)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 10:26 AM

78. At this point in time we offer almost no resistance to Trump

 

He openly commits felonies, but nothing is ever done about it.

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Response to Mr Tibbs (Reply #78)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 11:10 AM

89. true that

If not for our watchdog press, we wouldn't even know....

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Response to Mr Tibbs (Reply #78)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 11:22 AM

94. So what do you think the difference is between Schiff chairing inquiries

and a failed impeachment process?

Aside from ending it by giving the ball to McConnell, letting him spike it, and having Trump take a victory lap?

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Response to Pope George Ringo II (Reply #94)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 12:45 PM

100. It would probably help to stop announcing things as "failed" before they happen

 

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 06:34 PM

5. Of course there would be enough votes in the House with our majority.

I agree with Shred wholeheartedly.

Trump is such a horrible President and Commander in Chief (we could all list 50 adjectives to describe him). To not try is wrong for our nation, it's values, our national security, our democracy.

It's time to get access to all the evidence. No more stonewalling and fuc_ery re the Mueller Report and tax returns a formal judicial impeachment investigation would provide.

This is as much about the open process during a House Judiciary Committee Impeachment investigation that could actually help us win in 2020, even if the Senate trial doesn't go our way.

I love Pelosi but no longer agree with her strategy. She thinks impeachment is so divisive to our country? Seriously?!? We are there already...

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Response to Nevermypresident (Reply #5)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 06:37 PM

7. Yeah, god forbid we have a divided country

 

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Response to Nevermypresident (Reply #5)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 07:37 PM

14. Hurray! well said. nt

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Response to Nevermypresident (Reply #5)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 04:46 AM

33. +1000000

Completely agree....

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Response to Nevermypresident (Reply #5)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 04:54 AM

41. +1, 80% of Americans want to see the Full Mueller Report 90% of KGOPs want to hide it

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 06:43 PM

8. A good rule to follow is to do the right thing. If a president is corrupt, destroys departments

instead of supporting their purposes, lies to the people, abuses power, does not defend laws, stirs up hate and fear for political purposes, knowingly harms middle class citizens, obstructs justice, ignores his nepotism and cronyism, defends nations hostile to us, undermines allies thus jeopardizing natl security, conducts deals in secret...I bet most of this could be turned into impeachable offenses.

As I've said before, even if he's not convicted, he'll always have "impeached" after his name. And the process will do a good job of getting his corruption public.

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Response to Karadeniz (Reply #8)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 06:44 PM

9. Yep

 

Great points.

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Response to Karadeniz (Reply #8)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 08:36 PM

20. Exactly. Unfortunately, too many people are scared about shit that might never happen.

 

Letting a disastrous crook of a president off scott free with no impeachment hearings will more than likely result in disaster for the Democratic Party.

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Response to mtnsnake (Reply #20)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 05:48 AM

65. +1, Red Don will never even be as popular with democrats as Clinton was with indies and republicans

... post impeachment.

Red Don isn't lying about a BJ

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 07:17 PM

10. "The math" is the end goal, not the requirement for starting impeachment. Nt

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #10)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 03:38 PM

109. It's not really known if they have the votes in the House, too

Just having the majority is not enough. There is no guarantee all of the House Dems would support impeachment. Putting the few Dems in districts/states that support republicans in the position to vote for impeachment could easily backfire for them in the worst way. They could face a backlash from Democrats for voting for it at the same time as a massive republican mobilization.

There were a few republicans who crossed over to oppose Clinton's impeachment. The potential long term damage is not likely to be worth short lived satisfaction. I think Pelosi knows what she's doing.

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 07:32 PM

12. So, you'll like to lose the Presidential Election?

Because Impeachment without Conviction will help achieve that.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #12)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 07:39 PM

15. How many times must we explain "strategy" to you?


You are simply wrong.

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Response to Grasswire2 (Reply #15)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 07:42 PM

17. Actually, Brooklynite is right.

What part of "impeachment without the Senate will mean he is not removed, and he will say he was "exonerated" and the GOP will work the term "failed Democrat witch hunt" into every single campaign ad.

How many times must this "failure" of the strategy of impeachment be explained to you?

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #17)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 04:33 AM

24. As many times as access to process to be explained to you ... you've been busy, hmmmmm

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #24)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 06:11 AM

67. As have you.

Perhaps the concept of a "discussion board" is unclear?

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Response to Grasswire2 (Reply #15)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 07:45 PM

18. If I'm wrong, so is Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Adam Schiff...

...but perhaps anonymous bloggers know better.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #18)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 08:28 PM

19. Then so be it! n/t

 

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #18)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 04:35 AM

26. Only Pelosi is adding the requirement of bipartisanship

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #26)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 06:08 AM

66. "Only" Pelosi? Is there more than one Pelosi in the Housr?

Or are we talking about the speaker... the highest-ranking Democrat in the country?

You imagine that she’s alone in that opinion???

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Response to FBaggins (Reply #66)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 06:20 AM

69. Of course she's not alone, I don't think she has 100% agreement though and the case

... against impeachment is falling apart.

We'll see, at some point the stonewalling by the KGOP is going to get fever pitch and the "we can't do nothin" isn't going to fly anymore.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #69)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 06:31 AM

71. The point is that you're missing the clear implication

We don’t have anywhere near the votes to impeach.

We can debate all we like re: whether impeachment without conviction helps or hurts, but losing a vote on impeachment itself has no upside at all.

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Response to FBaggins (Reply #71)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 10:36 AM

82. This is false, we do have the votes to impeach. We don't have the votes to convict and remove ...

... but there's not going to be a dem in congress who's going to vote against impeaching red don expect to keep their seat.

Voted against impeachment would be the who subject of their primary.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #18)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 04:47 AM

36. Journalists, authors , teevee ppl. and yes bloggers (but not anonymous) also say you're wrong.

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Response to Kurt V. (Reply #36)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 04:49 AM

38. +1, hinging impeachment off of bipartisanship isn't a reasonable goal when the KGOP has a mouth

... piece in FAUX News and the rest of Conservative Winger World working for them.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #38)

Sun Apr 21, 2019, 07:26 AM

112. Bipartisanship is not possible with the Republican Party

 

The Republican party never ever compromises so it's pointless making deals with them

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #12)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 04:33 AM

23. There's no factual evidence for this. Red Don will never be as popular with democrats as Clinton was

... with republicans.

NEVER

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #12)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 05:03 AM

46. Gore lost

Nice try, though.

Start impeachment NOW

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Response to RandiFan1290 (Reply #46)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 05:18 AM

53. +1, the arguments against impeachment are starting sound like BS at this point. Red Don will never

... be as popular with democrats as Clinton was with republicans in the late 90s.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #12)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 11:03 AM

86. As somebody who knows better, I actually do have some serious questions about impeachment

Is there anything which would even force McConnell to take the matter up? Or could he just ignore it indefinitely?

Is there anything which would force him to take it at all seriously? Or could he just hold a voice vote, laugh it off, and bury it before his first cup of coffee?

Assuming the timetable isn't strictly prescribed and enforceable, would McConnell have it killed five minutes after it hit the Senate? Or would he just pocket it and declare it an official witch hunt the next time he needed a distraction or Trump needed a bump in the polls?

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Response to Pope George Ringo II (Reply #86)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 11:38 AM

96. Answer: yes

The prospect of losing the Senate when Republicans vote against Conviction after iron-clad evidence of criminal behavior is made public.

Republicans in 1974 held firm until the "smoking gun" tape came out, then folded.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #96)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 11:42 AM

97. So basically a borderline "October Surprise" moment, but nothing mechanical?

My understanding is that the courts are reluctant to issue orders on the subject, viewing it as fundamentally political.

Of course, if we get that smoking gun, that changes things. But the frank truth is that we don't have it yet.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #12)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 02:29 PM

105. Wrong

 

I think history has proven...every time Democrats go big...they win!!!

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Response to Buffalo Soldier (Reply #105)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 02:47 PM

107. Do you know how we "went big" in 2018?

We campaigned on jobs and health care and education costs. We DIDN'T campaign on Trump and Russia and Impeachment.

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Tue Apr 16, 2019, 07:39 PM

16. Well, if he's not removed, he gets to say "I was completely exonerated from that witch hunt."

And without the Senate, he won't be removed, so really, that renders the impeachment process worthless.

I disagree with anyone wanting that scenario going into 2020.

And I have contacted my Democratic Senators and Congressman and told them this.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #16)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 04:34 AM

25. And THAT reason, above all others, is why Pelosi is right

As much as we would love to attach the stigma of an impeachment to Trump, he would use his inevitable exoneration from the McConnell Senate to crow from the highest mountain, "See? I was wrongly the object of unjust Democratic persecution!" And it would fire up his base to vote to every last bit of the 110% of the vote their electronic vote-counting machines are programmed to give them.

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Response to DFW (Reply #25)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 04:40 AM

30. They'll crow even if Red Don is taken out of the white house like Assange !! When has reality ever

... mattered to those people!?

Red Don will NEVER be as popular to democrats as Clinton was to republicans so forget about post impeachment bumps.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #30)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 04:49 AM

37. If reality mattered to them, they wouldn't be voting for him in the first place n/t

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Response to DFW (Reply #37)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 04:53 AM

40. So, Red Don will crow no matter what ... nothing is going to stop that. Red Don crowing is not

... good reason to stop the impeachment process now.

Nor is a post impeachment bump seeing most people aren't going to vote for Red Don anyway.

The rationale ... FOR ... impeachment is to end the stonewalling and bold faced lying to congress.

We'll have nearly 2 years of that if there is no impeachment process now.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #40)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 05:03 AM

47. He can't crow that he beat impeachment if he hasn't been impeached.

Impeachment is for offenses that are perceived to have a chance of conviction. A prosecutor that brings charges that have zero chances of a conviction is wasting the public's time and money.

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Response to DFW (Reply #47)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 05:04 AM

48. YES HE CAN !! When has reality ever stopped him !? We're not dealing with a sane person here

There's nothing in the last 2 years that says the KGOP are rooted in reality.

If they don't have a narrative that fits them they straight up make one up !!!

Hell, he's "crowing" now by saying he's fully exhonorated ... that's false.

Red Don's crowing is not a good reason to stop impeachment process

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #48)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 05:20 AM

54. Per se, agreed, however, he isn't the only one running in the next election

Close Senate races also hinge on turnout and perception during the next 18 months. We'd all like to see him tossed in the nearest dungeon in chains for the rest of his days. No one disputes that. However, there are other considerations to be taken into account. We shouldn't run the danger of not regaining the Senate due to a Trump sympathy vote.

The Republicans had their feel-good moment when they impeached Clinton, too. They boosted his image for life and probably added few ten million to his net worth in heightened speaking fees and book sales in the process. When former president Trump tries to book his first speaking engagement, assuming he is still half-way coherent by then (not a given), I want it to be one where six people turn up and the rest of the tour is subsequently canceled.

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Response to DFW (Reply #54)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 05:41 AM

62. Red Don will NEVER EVER be as popular with democrats as Clinton was with republicans at that time

... and that's what it would take for a Red Don 'bump'.

He didn't get one after Barr's Summary, he aint getting one now.

I don't know where the Clinton impeachment comparisons came from but they're not rooted in facts and don't releate to now.

Look up Clinton's approval post impeachment; a good portion of Clinton's bump came from republicans and indies ... not just democrats.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #62)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 09:41 AM

76. Doesn't matter. His fans will not change their minds, and their Senators know it. (nt)

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #76)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 10:21 AM

77. Not to mention, it's just not gonna happen.

Posters on DU can post "IMPEACH NOW!!" every day here until election day 2020, but it's still not gonna happen.

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Response to bearsfootball516 (Reply #77)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 10:33 AM

80. LOL ... I'd like to hear a 2020 candidate say this and expect to win the primary. If Red Don broke

... laws there's no reason not to impeach him.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #80)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 10:50 AM

84. I'd love for him to be impeached. Still not gonna happen.

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Response to bearsfootball516 (Reply #84)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 10:56 AM

85. I still believe in more pressure from the people more better. Again, the first candidate that relays

... that sentiment will be the example to the rest that "no impeachment" is a losing argument for being president.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #80)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 11:08 AM

88. With Moore having a great poll, Jones has a tenuous path to reelection in Alabama

How do you think a vote on impeachment would impact his narrow window? Manchin has a much bigger window, but his constituents might well tell him to vote against impeachment too. It's not like we could primary him seriously and expect anybody with a D after their name to win that seat.

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Response to Pope George Ringo II (Reply #88)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 11:15 AM

91. We can impeach and not convict or remove to get the KGOP to stop stonewalling. That's the point

... of impeachment proceedings.

In regards to other races demcorats can start the impeachment proceedings to get KGOP to stop stonewalling and lying to congress then run silent like they are now.

At what point is impeachment "worth it"?!

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #91)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 11:17 AM

92. When it's more productive than simple Congressional inquiries.

Until then, there's a straight line between impeachment and a Trump victory lap breaking Twitter.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #76)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 10:32 AM

79. His fans are irrelevant and always have been

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #79)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 11:23 AM

95. They are relevant to what the GOP Senate majority will and will not do.

Is that clearer?

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #16)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 04:37 AM

27. He gets to say that even if he's dragged out of office like Assange, facts have never mattered to...

... Red Don.

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #16)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 09:37 AM

75. Frankly, trump will always continue his gaslighting by saying "I was completely exonerated from

that witch hunt", irregardless!!! LOL

We will just agree to disagree - I do not think the formal Judiciary Committee's Impeachment investigation will be worthless at all, for the reasons I and others have previously stated.



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Response to ehrnst (Reply #16)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 11:20 AM

93. I don't have any Democratic Senators or a Congressman.

On the bright side, I don't need to worry about Cruz, Cornyn, and Brady pushing for impeachment.

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 02:25 AM

21. Democrats shouldn't worry about impeachment dividing the country

The country can't get any more divided than it is now.

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Response to Poiuyt (Reply #21)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 04:38 AM

28. We're not at all worried about that.

It's giving Trump ammunition for next year that we don't want to do. McConnell and Miller are surely rubbing their hands in anticipation of the propaganda treasure trove when the Senate's "innocent of all charges" verdict is rendered in the middle of an election campaign. Assuming that the average American voter has Rachel Maddow's sophistication is risky business indeed.

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Response to DFW (Reply #28)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 04:43 AM

32. He's already got that ammunition now. We can impeach and not convict or move for removal the point

... is to stop the stone walling and lying to congress.

Without impeachment republicans are going to do both of the aforementioned without anything to stop them.

This is about our national security, what good is an election that's going to be infested with Russians helping Red Don ... again!?!?

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #32)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 04:52 AM

39. +100000

Correct - he already is claiming that he has been exonerated and is stonewalling....

Impeachment will show the public what is to be found on the illegal activities and crime of Trump. If he is impeached and the info is public and then he is not removed, the public will be so outraged with Republican Senate members that they will vote them out of office in 2020 and also Trump.

If we don't impeach, I actually think that many Democrats and would be voters will sit out the election....

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Response to Pachamama (Reply #39)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 05:01 AM

44. Yep, to mitigate the stonewalling is worth impeachment in and of itself. Democrats would have to ...

... have some discipline and run quite about the process from seated pols to prez candidates and not feed the M$M trolls.

Maybe that's what Pelosi is more concerned about ... but to think the Russians are going to sit this one out because they got caught last time isn't rational.

They'll be helping Red Don again, and there's nothing to stop them seeing Benedict Donald is def-funding the initiatives to have clean elections.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #44)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 05:29 AM

56. The Russians are even more emboldened now than ever.....

And they are laughing at us....literally....

I am in Europe right now and even had a Russian telling me that it was funny to them to see how easy it has been...

I am in Mallorca Spain right now where I sail. Quite literally had a Russian tell me this as he took utter pleasure knowing I am an American. My companion who is German had to nearly hold me back from saying something about Russia that might end up having one of this Russian's friends do something to me. Mallorca is crawling with Russian Oligarchs and their friends and Russian Mafia....

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Response to Pachamama (Reply #56)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 05:33 AM

59. +1, and Russia is infesting the KGOP with tons of cash. There's no reason to believe they're

... going to let their whore, Benedict Donald, go at it alone in 2020.

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 04:41 AM

31. I agree that it is time to start the impeachment process

There certainly are numerous compelling reasons.

I don't buy the argument that we shouldn't do it because of a forgone conclusion in the Senate. I think that exposing 45 and the Republicans who have supported his impeachable actions provide Dems the ammunition needed to take back the Senate.

I believe that Dems need to beat the drums on a daily basis that 45 and his Republican enablers are violating the Constitution-- and the oath of office they took to support it--in so many ways, that impeachment is necessary.

I plan to contact my Dem Representative and tell him so.

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Response to mnhtnbb (Reply #31)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 04:47 AM

34. Same here, those against impeachment aren't giving reasoning based on good logic and some are

... just straight out lying about the downside now.

Red Don will never ever be as popular with democrats as Clinton was with republicans in the late 90s

The process mitigates the KGOP stonewalling and we can impeach without convicting or moving for removal so it doesn't even get to the senate unless Moscow Mitch brings it up himself.

The KGOP lies or stonewalls during impeachment process they go to jail.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #34)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 05:08 AM

49. If they lie or stonewall during the impeachment process with the current "Justice" Department

They will go not to jail, but to Mar-a-Lago for a free week of luxury entertainment.

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Response to DFW (Reply #49)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 05:15 AM

51. Impeach Barr too, then vote to convict Barr for OoJ but don't move for removal.

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 05:31 AM

58. Agree, time to start the impeachment process.

Air Trump's dirty laundry for all the world to see. What ever happened to defending the Constitution, following the law, doing the right thing? Let's do it.

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 05:34 AM

60. Depends on the goal...

… the goal, for me, is not impeachment. Clinton was impeached, Nixon was not impeached. I've asked people who was impeached and they say, "Nixon."

… so, for me, the goal is removal from office. When that can be done, do it. I'm not interested in giving Trump a "win" he can use to try and get reelected.

--- that leads to another goal: let's win. I don't want a McConnell appointee replacing RBG on the SC and will not be content to say, "At least, we did those articles of impeachment."

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Response to Mike Nelson (Reply #60)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 05:43 AM

63. Trump will make up a win even if he's dragged out of office like Assange. Red Don is not sane

... and we should stop expecting reality based thinking from him.

Hell, he's going around the country right now saying he's exonerated and he's not.

Clinton post impeachment doesn't factually apply to Red Don, Red Don will never be as popular with democrats as Clinton was with republicans.

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 06:19 AM

68. The real reason is that an impeachment vote would probably fail and leave Trump emboldened.

If it didn’t fail, there would be no conviction. Impeachment is not a political reality.

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Response to Oneironaut (Reply #68)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 06:23 AM

70. Red Don says he's fully exonerated now so he's already emboldened. We're not talking about ...

... a sane person who will spout reality win or lose.

Red Don's response to impeachment, fail or succeed, is not a sound reason to not impeach

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #70)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 07:15 AM

73. I would say the problem isn't his response, but the public perception.

Impeachment would have a high probability of leaving egg on the Democratic party’s face. Even if we succeeded, our failure to convict would supersede a successful impeachment. Either way, there is a net loss to us.

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Response to Oneironaut (Reply #73)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 10:35 AM

81. Then don't move to convict, that simple. The point of impeachment is to reduce the OoJ & stonewallin

... stonewalling that is going to be present now.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #81)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 11:03 AM

87. Imo, it would be decried as a political stunt, then.

Impeachment is political. However, if you have one shot, you don’t want to blow it. Impeachment without trying for conviction would be a pointless act, imo, and Trump would use it to his advantage. We need all the legitimacy in the process that we can get.

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Response to Oneironaut (Reply #87)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 11:12 AM

90. Impeachment is used to stop the stonewalling not get Red Don removed and dems can make that clear

... and then run silent.

What is the breaking point?! At what point is enough is enough ?!

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #90)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 11:46 AM

98. Problem is, if you do that and then find nothing, it would be awful for the Democrats.

We really need to tread carefully with impeachment. It could backfire horribly and give Trump the 2020 election.

Imo, he’s done more than enough to be impeached. However, we need to prove it, and get some Republicans in the Senate on our side. Otherwise, it will be disastrous and make future impeachment attempts impossible.

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Response to Oneironaut (Reply #98)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 12:09 PM

99. How would it be awful ? Thx in advance

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #99)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 12:55 PM

102. Because it will look like we went in fishing for evidence and found nothing.

It also plays into Trump’s “Witch-hunt” mantra. We can’t afford to investigate Trump and find nothing in the investigation. It would be a major talking point he could use in 2020.

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 06:32 AM

72. Right now Trump is claiming that he is exonorated,

 

because of the Mueller report. The only way we see the full Mueller report before the election is to start impeachment proceedings. It's not really a choice for Democrats in the House. There is enough evidence, enough reason now to impeach Trump. Democrats are obliged to impeach Trump per the Constitution. Speaker Pelosi is making a political calculation that impeachment will hurt our chances in the 2020 election, I disagree. There will never be enough votes in the Senate to convict Trump, even after the 2020 elections. People who are saying to wait for bipartisanship before impeaching trump are really saying to never impeach Trump. Impeachment will allow Democrats to see the Mueller report before the election which will show more reasons why Trump should be impeached.

If people want to just look at impeachment politically, let's do it.

Not impeaching Trump will allow him to say that the Mueller report exonerated him, to say that Democrats overstepped, to say that Democrats were on a witch hunt, to say that it is Democrats who need to be investigated.

Impeaching Trump will rile up his 34% base, so fucking what? That 34% was always going to vote for Trump.
Not impeaching Trump will cause Democrats to stay home and not vote because once again Democrats have shown that they are weak.

Desperate times calls for desperate measures. Writing nice letters and asking politely will not convince monsters to stop.

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Response to watoos (Reply #72)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 10:39 AM

83. THIS !! The case against impeachment is falling apart once people know the facts. Red Don will never

... ever be as popular with dems as Clinton was with republicans in the late 90s so those who compare Red Don with Clinton isn't being factual.

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 07:35 AM

74. If the Repubs cannot find the "bi-partisanship" to help release the Mueller Report?

Then, I don't know where Democrats can find "bi-partisanship"?

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 12:53 PM

101. agree

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 12:56 PM

103. Recommended.

If we look at impeachment as the investigatory/prosecutorial aspect of the situation, it is up to the prosecutor, on this case the House Democrats, to lay out the case for the jury. Unfortunately for the country, the jury is the GOP controlled Senate. But if enough criminal behavior is revealed, the electorate has the opportunity to be aware of the crimes.

And even if Trump is acquitted by the Senate, he could lose in 2020.

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 01:29 PM

104. I agree. Democrats should stand up for the rule of law and the Constitition.

Under Pelosi’s the bipartisan condition, even if we win the Senate in 2020, we would not impeach for lack of “bipartisan” support should tRump prevail (heaven forbid) in 2020.

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