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Thu Apr 18, 2019, 10:55 AM

It turns out, great white sharks are scared of something, too

https://www.washingtonpost.com/science/2019/04/17/great-white-sharks-are-afraid-orcas-new-study-shows/?utm_term=.c866ed5fabe5



Jaws is afraid of Free Willy.

A new study published in Nature this week demonstrated that when pods of orcas entered an area around South Farallon Island off the coast of San Francisco, the great white sharks in the area cleared out — and didn’t return for months.

No ocean predator is more fearsome in the public imagination than the great white shark, but even they appear to steer clear of orcas, highly intelligent pack hunters that have been observed on rare occasions to attack great whites — and eat their livers.

“On one occasion, we had 17 sharks that we were tracking simultaneously at the island when a group of orcas showed up,” said Salvador Jorgensen of the Monterey Bay Aquarium, who led the study that involved Stanford University and Point Blue Conservation Science.

“We were able to see from the data all the sharks leaving the side of the island the orcas had arrived on,” he said, “and within a few hours had vacated the island completely.”

The findings are the result of 27 years of research, but Jorgensen suspected the two predators had been doing this dance for a while.


Orcas will work together to pin them down and eat their livers. This is like some Hannibal Lecter type stuff. They've even learned to use tonic immobility in some cases.

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Reply It turns out, great white sharks are scared of something, too (Original post)
IronLionZion Apr 2019 OP
Beringia Apr 2019 #1
Blue_true Apr 2019 #35
Beringia Apr 2019 #40
JHan Apr 2019 #54
Beringia Apr 2019 #55
JHan Apr 2019 #56
Volaris Apr 2019 #44
Blue_true Apr 2019 #50
Kurt V. Apr 2019 #51
Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2019 #2
jberryhill Apr 2019 #4
Volaris Apr 2019 #45
Baitball Blogger Apr 2019 #9
milestogo Apr 2019 #61
defacto7 Apr 2019 #11
malaise Apr 2019 #22
hunter Apr 2019 #30
IronLionZion Apr 2019 #39
defacto7 Apr 2019 #41
BannonsLiver Apr 2019 #12
Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2019 #15
tymorial Apr 2019 #27
hatrack Apr 2019 #13
Corgigal Apr 2019 #3
Volaris Apr 2019 #46
magicarpet Apr 2019 #53
Chin music Apr 2019 #5
jcgoldie Apr 2019 #8
Chin music Apr 2019 #19
Volaris Apr 2019 #47
Ilsa Apr 2019 #6
tymorial Apr 2019 #28
Volaris Apr 2019 #48
jcgoldie Apr 2019 #7
A HERETIC I AM Apr 2019 #14
hunter Apr 2019 #17
A HERETIC I AM Apr 2019 #18
TexasBushwhacker Apr 2019 #23
hunter Apr 2019 #36
TexasBushwhacker Apr 2019 #37
Volaris Apr 2019 #49
lunatica Apr 2019 #10
GulfCoast66 Apr 2019 #16
lunatica Apr 2019 #20
GulfCoast66 Apr 2019 #25
IronLionZion Apr 2019 #24
GulfCoast66 Apr 2019 #26
RhodeIslandOne Apr 2019 #52
Downtown Hound Apr 2019 #21
Volaris Apr 2019 #43
IronLionZion Apr 2019 #29
samnsara Apr 2019 #31
defacto7 Apr 2019 #32
IronLionZion Apr 2019 #38
Blue_true Apr 2019 #33
Blue_Tires Apr 2019 #34
Volaris Apr 2019 #42
myohmy2 Apr 2019 #57
A HERETIC I AM Apr 2019 #58
IronLionZion Apr 2019 #59
milestogo Apr 2019 #60

Response to IronLionZion (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 10:56 AM

1. Brains over Braun

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Response to Beringia (Reply #1)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 07:19 PM

35. An Orca has both. sonewhere out there is the video or an Orca cutting a Great White in half

with one bite. Orcas are apex predators, remember that next time you see a Seaworld show (if they have not stopped them). We are lucky that Orcas don't have a taste for us.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #35)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 09:10 PM

40. I know how dangerous orcas can be


I worked at SeaWorld in San Diego in the concessions and used to go visit the orcas every chance I got. I witnessed an orca attack a trainer. I was the only one in the stands. The orca grabbed the guy by the thigh and pushed him into the wall. He got away but I'm sure needed stitches. It is amazing they don't kill humans in the wild, not sure why because they go after seals and such.

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Response to Beringia (Reply #40)

Mon Apr 22, 2019, 12:09 AM

54. Orcas do not fare well in captivity...

In the wild , Orcas travel great distances - restraining them to a cement box for our entertainment is cruel. The greater the distance a marine animal has to travel, the more frustrating a limited space will be for them. Which is why examples of attacks on humans by orcas mostly happen when they're confined in places like SeaWorld.

Further, its physiology: put an animal that uses echolocation, whistles, and pulsed calls in a cage and they'll lash out.

In the wild they typically don't attack humans...

Killer whales seem to follow rules that go beyond basic instinct and border on culture. Individual pods forage, communicate and navigate differently, much the way different cultures of people do. Researchers have witnessed “greeting ceremonies” between pods. They’ve even seen the equivalent of a funeral. It may very well be that within “orca culture” there is a social norm not to go after people.

A more scientific explanation might be that we’re simply not tasty enough to be included on the killer whales’ menu. Orcas, it turns out, have picky palates. The Southern Resident Killer Whales of Puget Sound dine on only the fattest Chinook salmon, even if it means allowing an entire school of skinnier salmon to swim by. Transient orcas, which have a broader diet, have shown similar selective behavior, in one case killing a gray whale but eating only its tongue.

A third possible reason is that we don’t resemble any food source killer whales typically depend on. There have reportedly been incidents where an orca attempted to hunt a human, but broke off the hunt immediately upon realizing it wasn’t a sea lion.

Okay, so we’ve established that killer whales are pretty darned smart — they have a culture with specific behaviors, a picky diet, and they know that we don’t taste very good. Still, humans pump toxins into their water, we bombard them with noise, and sometimes we kidnap their babies and put them in aquariums. Orcas have a pretty good reason to hate us, perhaps even enough to want to extract revenge, yet they don’t. The answer here might be friendship. There are many cases where nomadic killer whales have gravitated to humans, bonding with them and playing games. Trainers at places like Sea World say very little goes into orca training. The whales seem to understand people, and are eager to cooperate and create bonds.


https://ww2.kqed.org/quest/2011/07/20/why-killer-whales-don%E2%80%99t-eat-people-where-science-and-legend-meet/

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Response to JHan (Reply #54)

Mon Apr 22, 2019, 12:17 AM

55. I agree


I would never go to a show featuring orcas, dolphins, seals. I would never work at SeaWorld now. I was very glad the movie Blackfish came out.

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Response to Beringia (Reply #55)

Mon Apr 22, 2019, 12:28 AM

56. yup, blackfish was really eye opening for me too.

which is why I'm never surprised when I hear of orcas lashing out in captivity.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #35)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 11:11 PM

44. Ummm, you need to watch the documentary Blackfish..

We piss them off (or make them crazy) yeah, they're gonna kill the shit out of us heh

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Response to Volaris (Reply #44)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 07:38 PM

50. Wow. Use us as tongue cleansers for their Great White dinner.

Yeah!

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Response to Volaris (Reply #44)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 07:44 PM

51. I've seen it. they can and do kill when given the chance

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Response to IronLionZion (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 10:57 AM

2. Orcas are the assholes of the ocean.

Ever watch the documentaries where they hunt down baby whale calves and devour them in front of their parents?

It's brutal.

Yeah, after seeing that I don't really feel all that guilty about going to Sea World after all.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #2)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 10:59 AM

4. They're not vegans

 

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #4)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 11:12 PM

45. Lol THIS made me laugh today!

Many thanks, Jberryhill!!

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #2)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 11:01 AM

9. They also play with their carcasses like a ball.

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #9)

Mon Apr 22, 2019, 07:29 AM

61. My dog informs me that this is normal celebratory behavior after a kill.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #2)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 01:17 PM

11. Humans are bizarre.

We see what we perceive as facial expressions of animals then project our oun emotions into those perceptions as if they must be feeling what we perceive. We project our morality on creatures millions of years older than we are as if we have some insight that transcends theirs and yet humans have committed atrocities against other humans infinitely worse than any creature that has ever inhabited this planet. We know that the best ant repellent is the crushed bodies of ants so we crush them alive to make a paste to use for that purpose and call it natural organic ant repellant. We do the same to our own by drawing and quartering our enemies and nailing their body parts on city walls as a warning.... look on the dark net. We still do it.

And we call Orcas assholes?

This isn't meant to be personal, it's a statement about humanity.

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Response to defacto7 (Reply #11)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 05:00 PM

22. Great post

We invent tools to kill other species

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Response to defacto7 (Reply #11)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 06:33 PM

30. I respect Orcas as I respect Wolves.

My brothers and sisters on this small blue dot.

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Response to defacto7 (Reply #11)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 07:56 PM

39. No need to look on the dark net to see brutal atrocities and human suffering

it's on cable news where our own country puts children in cages separated from their families, often with no hope of reuniting.

And of course the brutal murders and wars happening in some areas of Africa and the Middle East.

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Response to IronLionZion (Reply #39)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 10:43 PM

41. Agreed. That's bad enough.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #2)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 01:20 PM

12. What a bizarre statement

So it’s okay to patronize a shitty place like sea world because you’re offended by an animal’s natural behavior in the wild.

GMAFB.

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Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #12)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 01:38 PM

15. I'm being semi-sarcastic. nt

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #15)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 05:55 PM

27. I didnt catch that and I am usually skeptical of anything that might meet Poes Law.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #2)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 01:23 PM

13. They're predators - they're doing what they evolved to do . . .

Nature is bountiful, and gracious, and beautiful, and without mercy.

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Response to IronLionZion (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 10:59 AM

3. And humans

captured them and taught Orcas to jump out of a crappy big fish tank to kiss a child that is being held over the side. Man, humans are stupid and we're lucky orcas don't give a damn about us.

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Response to Corgigal (Reply #3)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 11:16 PM

46. Again, watch the documentary Blackfish.

Cause when they START caring, is when the punishment begins (spoiler--it doesn't end well for that which can't hold it's breath for a half an hour).

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Response to Corgigal (Reply #3)

Sun Apr 21, 2019, 11:54 PM

53. What,.. our livers are tasty ?

Aren't Orcas fussy eaters.

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Response to IronLionZion (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 10:59 AM

5. Now, to duplicate whatever originates a fear response (instinctually now due to the attacks)

and make a shark repellent based on the same.

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Response to Chin music (Reply #5)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 11:01 AM

8. they already have been doing that

They call it "essence of death" or something like that.

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Response to jcgoldie (Reply #8)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 03:41 PM

19. Wow.

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Response to jcgoldie (Reply #8)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 11:19 PM

47. As I understand it, it's the scent of shark blood...they get the hell away from it...

Because anything that can kill a great white shark, isn't anything that other sharks want to fuck around with.

Makes sense, and what a great evolutionary adaptation, even if your brain is the size of a beer can heh...

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Response to IronLionZion (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 11:00 AM

6. Orcas ordering a nice chianti to go with it. NT

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #6)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 05:57 PM

28. They forgot the fava beans,

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #6)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 11:21 PM

48. Beat me to it. I posted it anyway because hell yes.

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Response to IronLionZion (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 11:00 AM

7. I saw a show on this on Nat Geo last week

Pretty damn cool. These sharks just split and swim thousands of miles in the ocean when the orcas move into the area. They kill one and it releases some sort of chemical in the water that tells the rest to get the hell out of dodge!

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Response to jcgoldie (Reply #7)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 01:34 PM

14. That chemical is blood!

We probably saw the same show, though I think it was originally aired some time ago.

The one I saw was looking at tagged White Sharks that were congregated around the Farallon Islands, off San Francisco. As soon as the Orcas arrived, they killed a White and literally within minutes, every single Great White shark had buggered off to the west! They went deep and they went fast, straight toward Hawaii.

Orcas are absolutely fascinating. If I remember what I saw correctly, there are at least 3 distinct populations off the west coast of North and South America. They actually speak different languages. They have hunting styles and practices unique to their group. The ones that hunt the sharks have learned to turn the sharks over and put them into a catatonic state, as someone else mentioned. How did they learn to do that? And not all populations around the world do it, either.

Incredibly smart, communicative, family oriented animals, not unlike Elephants in their group or Pod structure.

And not one single incident in recorded history of an Orca intentionally hurting a human in the wild.

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Response to A HERETIC I AM (Reply #14)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 02:26 PM

17. I suspect humans taste terrible, would make an Orca sick...

... and have a bad reputation as genocidal maniacs.

Mama Orcas teach their children to leave us alone.

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Response to hunter (Reply #17)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 02:33 PM

18. Until you piss one off that is held in captivity.

Remember Tillikum ?

He ripped Dawn Brancheau's arm off and swallowed it.

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Response to A HERETIC I AM (Reply #18)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 05:18 PM

23. And they used Tillikum's semen to produce 21 offspring

Talk about bad seed.

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Response to TexasBushwhacker (Reply #23)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 07:28 PM

36. What's bad?

Should we celebrate the ability to suffer captivity?

My own ability to suffer captivity is constantly at war with myself that would drop a big asteroid on this planet.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cretaceous%E2%80%93Paleogene_extinction_event

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Response to hunter (Reply #36)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 07:43 PM

37. I don't like Sea World either

But they continued to use Tilly's semen even after he had attacked 3 handlers. He was an exceptionally aggressive Orca. One might choose to NOT pass on his genes.

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Response to A HERETIC I AM (Reply #14)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 11:26 PM

49. This raises thesis level questions abiut both evolutions for me..m

If raised in captivity, could a dolphin be 'taught' a language that humans could understand (and then generationally, teach it to other wild populations)?

We know birds can 'see' Earth's magnetic fields. I wonder if sharks can see something similar, being as they made a straight line for Hawaii (from the goddamn west coast of the United States!)?

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Response to IronLionZion (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 11:01 AM

10. Fascinating! Damn! That photo is scary!

I heard somewhere that dolphins attack sharks. Not to kill them but to make them leave.

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Response to lunatica (Reply #10)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 02:18 PM

16. Not Bull Sharks they don't!

I saw one kill and start feeding on a dolphin. And I was on a kayak😳

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #16)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 04:42 PM

20. I meant groups of dolphins

Dolphins, like Orcas work together.

I’m very glad you got away!

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Response to lunatica (Reply #20)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 05:50 PM

25. Thanks but I was never in any danger.

Totally freaked out! You bet.

I’ve always known big sharks can and do hang out in 3 feet of water or so, but to have it confirmed in such a violent up close way was eye-opening!

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #16)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 05:35 PM

24. Bull sharks are the worst threat to humans

they are responsible for most attacks, they're the most brazen, and can go in shallow murky water and upriver farther than most others

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Response to IronLionZion (Reply #24)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 05:52 PM

26. They are really the only thing I truly fear when in the water in Florida.

When they decide to eat a human, he or she generally gets eaten! Or at best best severely injured.

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Response to IronLionZion (Reply #24)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 08:17 PM

52. Yup

 

Most white shark attacks on humans are accidents. But a "test bite" from a 14 foot white shark is usually fatal.

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Response to IronLionZion (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 04:57 PM

21. I saw a show one time about a rare instance where a group of scientists actually witnessed an

Orca killing a Great White. The amazing thing was that a completely different group of scientists who were monitoring a tagged Great White not too far away but still a significant distance away (I don't remember exactly, but it probably something like 40-50 miles away) observed that the tagged White dove very suddenly to a depth of over 500 feet at about the same time the other White was killed by the Orca. That is a depth that Orcas can't reach due to needing to breathe air. Somehow it just seemed to know what had just happened, miles away.

There's a lot we don't know about these animals.


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Response to Downtown Hound (Reply #21)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 11:08 PM

43. Anything that can smell a drop of blood from a mile away,

Likley knows damn well when that spilled blood came from one of it's fellows, and what drew that blood.

Useful adaptation on the sharks part, I'd say...

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Response to IronLionZion (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 06:26 PM

29. Orca Whale vs. Great white shark Video



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Response to IronLionZion (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 06:35 PM

31. we have orcas here in wash state..they are starving because of the low salmon population

..maybe we should give them a few great whites.

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Response to samnsara (Reply #31)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 07:01 PM

32. Or clean up our act before it's too late.

Well, that's not likely.

You know, sharks are one of the oldest species on earth? I think I read something like 200 million years. Don't quote me on the years.

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Response to samnsara (Reply #31)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 07:52 PM

38. We should hire orcas to put sharks in their place

where there are frequent shark attacks. We can feed them salmon or whatever they want. It would be good of them to eat bull sharks, which are the worst.

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Response to IronLionZion (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 07:04 PM

33. Have known this for a while. Orcas are vicious killers that can cut a Great White

in half with one strike.

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Response to IronLionZion (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 07:18 PM

34. This is news?

Orcas have been slapping around Great Whites for millions of years if not more?

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Response to IronLionZion (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 11:05 PM

42. Orcas are serious fuckin hunters...

And I'd bet money that the sharks know damn well when the Chianti is being served lol!!

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Response to IronLionZion (Original post)

Mon Apr 22, 2019, 12:40 AM

57. will orcas...

...attack and eat humans?

...

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Response to myohmy2 (Reply #57)

Mon Apr 22, 2019, 01:04 AM

58. There are no recorded incidents of wild Orca hurting humans

Intentionally.

So....no, they won’t

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Response to myohmy2 (Reply #57)

Mon Apr 22, 2019, 07:25 AM

59. Never kill or eat, but there have been bites or they knock over a small boat or something

They mostly are smart enough to know humans are not good to eat

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_whale_attack

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Response to IronLionZion (Original post)

Mon Apr 22, 2019, 07:27 AM

60. I bet they are afraid of being kidnapped and taken to SeaWorld.

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