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Thu Apr 18, 2019, 09:40 PM

There are no excuses left for not impeaching Trump. That is, if impeachment is still

one of the remedies provided in the US Constitution for a president who cannot or will not honor the oath he took at his inauguration. If impeachment is just a "quaint" notion left over from those 18th century idealists who scribbled some high-sounding phrases on parchment, then fine--- concoct whatever excuses make it easier for you to live with your inaction. But, if impeachment means anything at all; if it is a real "thing", now is the time for it.

No president in our history has deserved impeachment more than Trump.

No Congress has had more evidence of presidential incompetence, misfeasance and malfeasance.

No president has ever gained his office with the criminal assistance of a foreign adversary and then sought repeatedly to use his illegitimate title to argue that he is couldn't be prosecuted.

If the Senate Republicans choose to violate their oath and condone the ongoing criminal activities of Donald Trump, that's on them.

If we don't force them to vote on Trump's impeachment, THAT'S ON US.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 09:44 PM

1. Excuse number one - not emough votes

excuse number two - a base of ignorant voters who would be emboldened by this.

As Churchill said:

“The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

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Response to question everything (Reply #1)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 09:49 PM

2. Trump's base will vote for him whether

 

He is impeached or not. Not impeaching Trump should really fire up Dems right?

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Response to watoos (Reply #2)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 10:28 PM

4. Must impeach must fight like hell

We will lose the house and the presidency in 2020 if they don't impeach

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Response to question everything (Reply #1)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 09:58 PM

3. I'm sorry you have such a poor opinion of democracy. Does "not enough votes" mean

you don't think the Democratic House would vote to impeach Trump?

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Response to Atticus (Reply #3)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 11:13 PM

6. Of course not. It means that there are insufficient votes in the Senate to convict.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 10:59 PM

5. Pelosi is having a conference call on Monday with House Dems. This should be interesting. nt

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 11:33 PM

7. Impeachment is when the House brings charges against Twitler...

But it's up to the Senate to run the trial and decide if Twitler is guilty or not.

If they vote guilty, he's out. But if they vote not guilty, he'll stay in office and (IIRC) would be able to run again in 2020 anyway.

Nancy would know if there are enough votes to kick the bum out, and I'm guessing there aren't - which might be the reason she's not gung-ho about impeaching.

I get depressed when people say we should wail till 2020 and beat Twitler at the polls. Damn, I want him out ASAP!!! But if a failed impeachment would allow him to stay on course and run again anyway, then I can understand why Nancy feels the way she does.

Looks like we're stuck between a rock and a hard place. Go forward with an impeachment that's probably not going to succeed, OR concentrate on beating Twitler (and the Russians) in 2020.

Still in all, I feel we should try our best and go for the impeachment anyway... if for no other reason than to add Twitler's name to the list and shame the hell out of him in the history books.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 01:32 AM

8. There is a difference ...

... between "excuses" and "reasons".

And I believe there are compelling reasons not to pursue impeachment proceedings at this time.

There is much more to this story yet to be revealed. The deluge of information today was illuminating - but it is the forthcoming drip, drip, drip that will cause the greatest erosion of support for Trump.

We have yet to see the unredacted version of Mueller's report - and we know by what we've already read that what is still under wraps is NOT going to be good for Trump.

There are areas the Mueller probe did not delve into in detail - such as Trump's finances, and how they may go to prove his being compromised. Let House Dems continue their queries into that aspect - along with others - the results of which may be even further damaging to Trump and his cohorts, and serve as further proof of his corruption.

I understand the desire to "impeach now!!! - and to some extent, I would love to see that happen.

But the fact is that impeaching now will only result in the GOP-led Senate refusing to convict - which in turn means Trump campaigns in 2020 as a wrongly-persecuted victim of a a witch-hunt who was "cleared and exonerated" by the failure to remove him from office - and you know his "base" will eat that up.

I say let things play out. Let Schiff and the other PTB in the Democratic party call witnesses, subpoena documents, etc., and lay out for the citizenry what comes to light through that process. It may be painfully slow and steady - but it's the best way to win the race.

And let's not forget that time is on our side. The more information that drips, drips, drips out over the next year and a half, the closer that flow of information is disclosed to November 2020 - and given the attention span of many of our fellow citizens, the fresher in their minds revelations about Trump will be as they go to the polls to vote.

All of this to say the obvious: When you want your opponent buried in his own shit, why stand in the way of more shit inevitably being dumped?

Just my two cents.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #8)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 06:57 AM

9. Your "two cents" is always welcome, even when we disagree, as we do here.

Your points are all well taken, although I don't think anyone can predict the public's reaction to a Trump "acquittal" as a "fact".

Rather than quibble about reactions and counter-reactions if such-and-such is said or done, let me state my primary concern: we currently have our pants down and our ass in the wind internationally. If China decides to seize Taiwan---or sinks a "trespassing" US vessel in "their" sea---or if Russia invades the Balkans---we are TOTALLY unprepared to respond militarily or diplomatically. But, he does have his "big button".

Thanks for your thoughts.

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Response to Atticus (Reply #9)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 09:39 PM

11. And thank you for ...

… your thoughtful response.

I am not anti-impeach. I’m just saying that the unredacted Mueller report will undoubtedly contain more ammunition to go after Trump with, as well as investigations the House Dems are embarked on.

Let’s get as much ammunition in our arsenal as possible before we go into battle.

It’s possible (probable) that we don’t yet know the most explosive info in the Muller report, or what further investigations will turn up.

Just as an aside, I think what Trump engaged in before he was “elected” might be the tipping point for a lot of those still supporting him. Many are looking at Mueller’s findings and dismissing them as part and parcel of down-and-dirty politics – which they’ve come to expect. I believe that if he is proven to have laundered money for the Russians as a private citizen, for example, they might see him in a whole different light.

I wish the Dems (and the media) had made more of the fact that Trump’s “charity” spent its money on buying two paintings of him, and was used as a personal piggy-bank. That’s the kind of thing that turns everyone off. But I’ve learned from sites where Republicans post that most of them have never even heard about that, and don’t know the “charity” was shut down and that Trump is barred from being involved in any charities in NYS for ten years.

I believe it's the "private citizen" Trump who is most vulnerable, because he can't claim that 'politics' were at play when it comes to things he did before he was even a blip on the political radar.

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 07:28 AM

10. I disagree, work on policy to get a dem president, we WANT to run against Trump! Nt

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Response to Atticus (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 11:10 PM

12. Do it. Let history record that he was impeached by the U.S. House of Representatives.

The House must do its constitutional duty and conduct hearings on impeachment.

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