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Fri Apr 19, 2019, 07:47 PM

 

The time has arrived for us to worry what might happen if we DON'T impeach the lunatic in the WH

instead of worrying what might happen in 2020 if we do impeach him.

If we don't impeach, it's like saying we admit that Trump is above the law. If we don't impeach, there are a lot of folks out there who might not realize just how guilty he is, folks who voted for him in 2016. If we don't impeach, we could very well lose our dignity as a Party, along with so much of the respect that we have been fighting so hard to keep for the last few decades.

We are not the ones who should be worried at all about impeachment. It's the republicans who are shitting their pants because any way you look at it, they are screwed. If Trump is impeached and the GOP in the Senate does not vote to remove him, it's the Republicans who stand to lose at the ballot box in 2020 because any law abiding Americans will lose any remaining respect that they had for those assholes to begin with. Rest assured that there are a lot of decent Americans who got fooled into voting for Trump in 2016. Through the impeachment hearings alone, those folks would see the light, they'll see the truth, and they will not be fooled again.

Don't forget. We have something called The Truth on our side. With the truth on our side, we can enter the impeachment process with confidence. In the dire situation our country is in, our forefathers would expect nothing less of us but to follow through with the Articles of Impeachment of the Constitution. They wrote those articles in there for a good reason. It was to protect this country from terribly sick lunatics just like Trump.

The only way we can lose is for us to look the other way and let him continue to run amok. It's time to put aside any remaining fears we might have about impeachment and boldy step up to the plate to go after Trump with a vengeance. And never look back. The truth is our friend, and what better way to get the truth out there than through impeachment hearings.

It's long past time to put any fears aside about what might happen if we do or if we don't. We simply need to do what our hearts are telling us to do. Impeach!

71 replies, 5458 views

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Reply The time has arrived for us to worry what might happen if we DON'T impeach the lunatic in the WH (Original post)
mtnsnake Apr 2019 OP
TwilightZone Apr 2019 #1
honest.abe Apr 2019 #9
TwilightZone Apr 2019 #14
KPN Apr 2019 #20
honest.abe Apr 2019 #27
uponit7771 Apr 2019 #51
TwilightZone Apr 2019 #65
Magoo48 Apr 2019 #62
TheRealNorth Apr 2019 #2
mtnsnake Apr 2019 #5
KPN Apr 2019 #21
uponit7771 Apr 2019 #52
FreepFryer Apr 2019 #3
mtnsnake Apr 2019 #6
SunSeeker Apr 2019 #4
bdamomma Apr 2019 #30
Dan Apr 2019 #7
Buffalo Soldier Apr 2019 #12
bdamomma Apr 2019 #31
uponit7771 Apr 2019 #54
durablend Apr 2019 #28
DoctorJoJo Apr 2019 #8
pangaia Apr 2019 #69
world wide wally Apr 2019 #10
babylonsister Apr 2019 #11
procon Apr 2019 #13
TwilightZone Apr 2019 #15
mtnsnake Apr 2019 #16
TwilightZone Apr 2019 #17
mtnsnake Apr 2019 #23
TwilightZone Apr 2019 #18
mtnsnake Apr 2019 #26
procon Apr 2019 #43
Evolve Dammit Apr 2019 #66
EveHammond13 Apr 2019 #19
mtnsnake Apr 2019 #24
CTAtheist Apr 2019 #22
UniteFightBack Apr 2019 #25
bdamomma Apr 2019 #33
Pepsidog Apr 2019 #29
SunSeeker Apr 2019 #32
bdamomma Apr 2019 #34
patphil Apr 2019 #35
MasonDreams Apr 2019 #36
CaptainTruth Apr 2019 #37
procon Apr 2019 #46
uponit7771 Apr 2019 #55
better Apr 2019 #59
Steven Maurer Apr 2019 #38
democrank Apr 2019 #39
meadowlander Apr 2019 #40
DallasNE Apr 2019 #41
triron Apr 2019 #42
coti Apr 2019 #44
rufus dog Apr 2019 #45
mtnsnake Apr 2019 #47
uponit7771 Apr 2019 #50
uponit7771 Apr 2019 #48
uponit7771 Apr 2019 #49
DinahMoeHum Apr 2019 #53
watoos Apr 2019 #56
VOX Apr 2019 #57
kentuck Apr 2019 #58
Name removed Apr 2019 #60
FrankTC Apr 2019 #61
proud patriot Apr 2019 #63
Mr Tibbs Apr 2019 #64
YOHABLO Apr 2019 #67
pangaia Apr 2019 #68
pangaia Apr 2019 #70
jimlup Apr 2019 #71

Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 08:09 PM

1. "If we don't impeach, it's like saying we admit that Trump is above the law."

I think this assertion is fundamentally flawed. This isn't a binary argument. Continuing the investigations in and outside of Congress and exposing Trump, his dealings, his family, and his cronies in public hearings, for example, would not even remotely be the same as admitting he's above the law.

Just because every Dem isn't screaming "impeachment" from the rooftops doesn't mean we as a party condone his behavior.

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Response to TwilightZone (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 08:42 PM

9. Hearings are not enough.

Many wont pay attention. Hearings are like spanking a murderer. It might help a bit but we need an electric chair.

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Response to honest.abe (Reply #9)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 08:51 PM

14. What do you think impeachment is?

Hearings. Lots and lots of hearings. That's what impeachment is.

For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_process_against_Richard_Nixon#Impeachment_hearings

I'm not sure why, but many people seem to be under the impression that hearings under impeachment will be radically different from public hearings held by Congress. This impression is false.

Will more people pay attention if the hearings are under the guise of impeachment? Perhaps, but the vast majority of people already know who Trump is, already know what he's done, and have made up their minds about how they feel about that. Some care, some don't, some know and support him anyway. If you're expecting impeachment to radically change the minds of a significant chunk of voters, you're going to be disappointed.

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Response to TwilightZone (Reply #14)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 09:19 PM

20. Exactly ... so what is your point. You seem to

be arguing for and against impeachment. We should start impeachment hearings and hold them till the cows come home if necessary and in order to potentially implicate other GOP as colludeRs so stthey see the light and move to supporting rather than on obstructing it.

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Response to TwilightZone (Reply #14)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 09:34 PM

27. Hearings on steroids.

It will be radically different. News coverage will be intense and continuous. Much more information will come out and many more will be paying attention. Exactly what is needed,

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Response to TwilightZone (Reply #14)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 08:26 AM

51. Impeachment is hearings where people go to jail if they lie to Congress.

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #51)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 02:50 PM

65. You keep making this claim, but it's false.

Under oath is under oath. Impeachment hearings are no different from other Congressional hearings in this regard.

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Response to TwilightZone (Reply #1)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 01:34 PM

62. Yup. It's time for action across the board.

Action on every front, all of the time, is the correct course. Make them lie, make them cheat, make them show themselves. Leave no corridors of relief open for them. And, always, always tie every Republican to 45’s tail. They are one.

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 08:11 PM

2. I changed my mind after the report was released

I agree - I think there is potentially more danger in not impeaching. But I think before we go to impeachment, we need the unredacted report (if possible) and we need to hear from Mueller. Barring any red lights from Mueller or the unredacted report should it be released to Congress, then you proceed to impeachment. The testimony from Mueller will be key because they story he tells will be instrumental in swaying the, "I don't want to hear about/tired of hearing about it crowd".

But we also have to have a unified message and drill that through the media.

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Response to TheRealNorth (Reply #2)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 08:31 PM

5. I agree that when we impeach, we choose the best time possible to begin the impeachment proceedings

 

Yes, it's important to learn everything possible that we can get from Mueller before we begin the proceedings.

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Response to TheRealNorth (Reply #2)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 09:23 PM

21. Everybody was tired of hearing about Watergate

as well, but that didn’t cut the process short and succeeded in Rs eventually seeing the light. So I agree. We need to start the process, public fatigue orbit.

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Response to TheRealNorth (Reply #2)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 08:29 AM

52. Hear hear

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 08:28 PM

3. Correct. Impeachment has purpose and meaning irrespective of the chance of conviction. (n/t)

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Response to FreepFryer (Reply #3)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 08:32 PM

6. Well said in just a few words.

 

Thank you.

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 08:30 PM

4. We must impeach. It is Congress' duty. Just follow Mueller's roadmap.

Get it done. Get everyone on record. It will not paralyze our government. We can walk and chew gum. We must stand for the rule of law.

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #4)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 09:42 PM

30. nt

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 08:36 PM

7. Well, my thoughts are this

Impeach or Not Impeach... Donald will go on the attack!

If you don’t impeach - he will probably say it is because there is no truth to the Mueller report, and he will attack everyone/body that is not on his side. And probably a significant number of people that supported Trump are not going to change their view from Trump and will still vote for the GOP.

If you impeach - and he is not removed from the office because of the Senate, then the GOP Senate can explain why Trump’s behavior is acceptable. And probably a significant number of people that supported Trump at not going to change their minds about Trump and will still vote for the GOP.

If you impeach and the Senate agrees to his removal due to the nature of his actions. It is still possible that a significant number of people that supported Trump are still going to support the next GOP candidates.

But one thing I do believe, regardless of what actions the Congress takes - Trump will go on the attack using the powers of the presidency to promote his agenda, protect his ass, disrupt the rule of law and keep his ass in power.

My opinion.

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Response to Dan (Reply #7)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 08:49 PM

12. Power of the Presidency

 

But one thing I do believe, regardless of what actions the Congress takes - Trump will go on the attack using the powers of the presidency to promote his agenda, protect his ass, disrupt the rule of law and keep his ass in power.


I agree...he will use the full force of Article 2

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Response to Buffalo Soldier (Reply #12)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 09:46 PM

31. Well there

are militias on the Southern border now interfering with Border Police. Going after migrants. This is not good. We have concentration camps holding migrant children and babies. This is not normal.

Stephen Miller is a sick bastard.

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Response to Buffalo Soldier (Reply #12)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 08:32 AM

54. He will do this regardless of impeachment

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Response to Dan (Reply #7)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 09:36 PM

28. -this-

Our cowering in the corner in the fetal position isn't going to make Public Enemy #1 stop yelling at us.

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 08:37 PM

8. But If We Impeach, We'll Have to Run Against Mikey Pants and Mother--a Formidable Pair! LOL

 

Not sure that turd could carry Indiana!

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Response to DoctorJoJo (Reply #8)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 04:58 PM

69. Impeach him as well.

Then nancy is President...

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 08:44 PM

10. Consider one more thing.

If we don't impeach, how many voters will we lose because they see us as spineless cowards.
I would rather have the GOP mad at me personally.

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 08:45 PM

11. Nice!

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 08:50 PM

13. It should be a straightforward decision.

Impeachment is a duty, not an optional choice.

The Constitution, Article II, Section 4:
The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.




That pesky word "shall", is written into the Constitution 319 times. It removes all doubt about what the Framers intended; its an imperative command; a duty to, or is required to.

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Response to procon (Reply #13)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 08:53 PM

15. Well, there's another pesky word in the very same sentence: Conviction.

There will be no conviction, making the "shall" irrelevant. Context is important and the context makes the "shall" meaningless.

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Response to TwilightZone (Reply #15)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 09:02 PM

16. Thank goodness the great majority of Democrats aren't scared to impeach out of fear of no conviction

 

If you don't believe that a ton of good will come from the impeachment hearings alone, regardless of conviction, then you might be missing the boat.

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Response to mtnsnake (Reply #16)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 09:12 PM

17. There's little evidence that impeachment will produce "a ton of good" anymore than...

the continued investigations, public hearings, and continued pressure by Democratic leadership would.

It's largely the same process. It makes more sense to gather the evidence first, in my opinion, though you would seem to disagree.

The key point, of course, is that impeachment will fail at removal and arguably provide Trump with political cover after he's acquitted. Regardless of your confident assertion, you really don't know any more about what that will mean in the long term, especially politically, than anyone else does.

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Response to TwilightZone (Reply #17)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 09:27 PM

23. Conviction might be unlikely...today...but the fact that you are so adamant

 

that conviction will fail, and the fact that you are so sure that impeachment hearings will do no good, makes me more than a little bit curious.

BTW, how is it that you are 100% sure that conviction will fail? Six months from now, the entire atmosphere among the corrupt GOP'ers might no be the same as it is today, especially when they realize that their re-election chances are slowly going down the drain? How do you know that by the time the impeachment hearings are over that a number of the assholes in the GOP might not change their minds about Trump, once they realize that they will likely get their asses kicked at the ballot box in 2020 if they support him?

Just like I don't know what might happen in the long term, you for sure don't know either. While I do realize that conviction is a long shot, I also know that most Democrats aren't scared shitless about the thought that the Senate won't have enough votes to convict.

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Response to mtnsnake (Reply #16)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 09:14 PM

18. "great majority"

Support for impeachment among Dems is 67%, according to a poll released today. It's actually down double-digits since late last year, which is a bit perplexing. It will likely rise now, but it's also not the 90% some are claiming elsewhere.

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Response to TwilightZone (Reply #18)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 09:32 PM

26. Yes the great majority. Even after the midterms it was 77%.

 

Google it.

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Response to procon (Reply #13)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 11:49 PM

43. Conviction isn't required or guaranteed.

The House begins the impeachment process by charging the president with a list of his high crimes and misdemeanors, offences against the government, and thereby the people of the US. The evidence is publicly presented with witnesses and documentation as part of the House's duty to conduct investigations and oversight.

That process of public exposure of each of Trump's crimes as he assaulted the rule of law and weakened our government, builds the foundation for the trial in the Senate. As each Article of Impeachment is discussed and voted on, Trump's illegal behavior is presented to the court of public opinion.

Exposing Trumps crimes to public scrutiny is the goal. The House investigation will replay 24/7 on every news channel, and like Clinton's Impeachment the entire country will be rivited to the daily episode. Like the charges against Clinton, Trump's Impeachment will refer to a string of women and salcious sex for money, but more importantly, it will show that Trump set himself above the law and engaged in actions that border on treason.

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Response to procon (Reply #13)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 02:53 PM

66. I agree with this post. He has repeatedly flaunted the law; his whole life. But now, as President

it is the constitutional responsibility of Congress to Impeach. It will not be easy, but as the process unfolds, his actions will be under intense scrutiny which is sorely needed. He had almost 2 1/2 years and we can expect rage, doubling down, punching back and whatever his base is inclined to do. It will not be easy or pretty. But the more people see, the more obvious it will become, that he is UNFIT for office. It's time to restore credibility and make him accountable. Mueller did a yeoman job, and we owe him and his team acknowledgment that the work will be carried forward. Barr may inhibit all the other federal cases, making this even more urgent.

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 09:16 PM

19. can you IMAGINE how trump will control the narrative - what he will do or say

 

if we are not filling the bandwidth with impeachment? If we are not giving the media the shiny object they crave?

Can you imagine what trump would SAY and do if he thinks he skated on all accountability????

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Response to EveHammond13 (Reply #19)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 09:29 PM

24. Amen to that, Eve. I would hate to even think about it.

 

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 09:24 PM

22. Just ask yourself if "Clinton was impeached for lying to congress"

 

He was, and that's not something you go merrily into re-election with. Clinton didn't have to, since he served 2 terms already. Ask yourself if that happened in the 1st, if he would have won the 2nd.

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Response to CTAtheist (Reply #22)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 09:32 PM

25. He was impeached but the people were not behind it. Are you hearing people call for

 

impeachment in your life (non political folks)..what about people at work? I personally have not had one person mention anything about this report at all and by proxy impeachment.



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Response to CTAtheist (Reply #22)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 09:53 PM

33. Clinton's

crime is not even close to what tRump has done. He's a thug, who did "F up".

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 09:39 PM

29. Elizabeth Warren on Rachel tonight convinced me that impeachment is necessary.

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Response to Pepsidog (Reply #29)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 09:46 PM

32. Just watched that. Great segment. If you've read the report, you'll know impeachment is required.

That's Warren's opinion. It appears to be Rachel's. It is certainly mine.

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 09:55 PM

34. Does anyone think

trump has even read the report????? Calling it BS. He's not well mentally.

And I wouldn't put it pass him to do a lot more damage to our country and to Americans.

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 10:26 PM

35. The process needs to start now

Remember, all the House hearings will be public. It means the truth will be put out there for everyone to see and hear.
Yes, it will take a lot of time, but to not start now makes it less likely the process will ever start.
IF the Democrats let this slide, they might as well kiss the 2020 elections goodbye.
They would loose face with the American Public, and would be telling the country that what Trump did was not all that bad; not worthy of the time and effort.

What Trump did dragged the office of the president through the mud. He dishonored his office, and demonstrated a flagrant disregard for the Constitution and the rule of law.

This is worse than Watergate, worse than Lewinskigate. If the multiple counts of Obstruction of Justice laid out in the Mueller report does not constitute an impeachable act, then I don't know what would be.

Patrick Phillips

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 10:32 PM

36. Even if there are negative? consequences IMPEACH

Force rebukes to vote for this criminal, then rub it in their faces.

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 10:38 PM

37. I still say our #1 priority is winning the White House & Senate in 2020.

If y'all folks can convince me that impeaching Trump (which will not send Trump to jail, he'll be promptly pardoned by president Mike Pence) helps us win big in 2020, go for it. I'm all ears.

Convince me the GOP will NOT beat Democrats bloody with the "impeachment" stick. Convince me they WON'T launch a massive fundraising blitz to "defend Donald Trump against Democrat attacks!" Convince me the GOP WON'T use impeachment to whip their base into a rabid frenzy.that makes them turn out to vote in record numbers.

Convince me impeachment won't hurt our chances of big wins in 2020 ... Please.

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Response to CaptainTruth (Reply #37)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 12:13 AM

46. No one can garantee you won't come out of a

fight unbloodied. Yes, we will face unprecedented obstruction from the GOP, but that is the standard we have lived with for years, and nonetheless we endured and even reclaimed the House.

Trump is not a popular president, he's never ever hit the 50% approval mark. Sure, Republicans abide him, but the majority of Americans loathes him. The world, with the exception of a hand full of infamous dictators, finds him a disgusting pig. What is revealed in the Impeachment proceedings will not make him more likable.

The charges presented as Articles of Impeachment against Trump will be based on the evidence his actual illegal and criminal behaviors, not just a titillating sexcapade. Will the evidence presented create a public outrage that excoriates Trump and weakens his standing?

Whether or not the Republicans in the Senate rise to follow their Constitutional oaths, the Articles of Impeachment passed by House Democrats will stand.

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Response to CaptainTruth (Reply #37)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 08:34 AM

55. Have can that be done if Russia is still backing their whore Benedict Donald Trump?

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Response to CaptainTruth (Reply #37)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 10:51 AM

59. Your logic suffers two major flaws.

First, you assume that starting impeachment proceedings necessarily results in a vote on Articles of Impeachment, in time for Pence to ride to the rescue. It does not. It's quite reasonable to assume that a proper investigation into matters as plentiful and of as broad a scope as are relevant here will last all the way up to the election.

And second, you are evaluating the decision of whether or not to begin impeachment proceedings at least in part on the basis of whether or not the GOP will use that particular stick to beat us bloody.

We need to all recognize that even above and beyond securing handouts for the rich, the GOP exists for the primary purpose of beating Democrats bloody. The idea that we can avoid them trying to beat us bloody by not wielding the strongest stick we have available is sheer idiocy.

I urge you to take a good hard long look at the frustration among our base, spanning decades now, with us not fighting with every weapon at our disposal. Now, here, we are faced with a situation in which the Constitution itself very clearly dictates that impeachment is the appropriate remedy. Quite simply, your fear is on the wrong side of this equation, and you should expect that the consequences of not proceeding with impeachment in the face of such overwhelming evidence of it being appropriate, will be far worse than the consequences of us doing our part and being stymied by Republicans being Republicans.

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 10:40 PM

38. *We* are not doing anything - Congress is

And in this case, Congress is wisely deciding that the public should be the ones to hold not just Trump - but all of his enablers - to account.

Impeachment won't do that. Does anyone here really want to see "President Pence"?!?

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 10:57 PM

39. We have had a steady barrage of Trump's lies and it's time to set the record straight.

Let the hearings begin. Let the truth come out. Let Trump’s unprincipled enablers explain why it was a good idea to assist in the destruction of everything we stand for. And....let it be on the record. Let it become history, actual words their grandchildren can read some day. Let them raise their right hands and swear to tell the truth while the rest of America watches.

We can not allow this criminal enterprise to get away with what they have done to this country. We must rise up and stand for something, not cower behind the worry about the next election.

Donald Trump is a traitor to his country. Begin impeachment proceedings.

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 11:01 PM

40. +1000. We're dealing with Trump now because we sat on our asses in 2000 and 2008.

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 11:04 PM

41. Earlier Tonight I was Thinking Along The Same Lines

Although I would not go after Trump with a vengeance. It needs to be dignified and just the facts.

If what has happened according to the Mueller report does not rise to the level of Impeachment then what does and what oversight on the executive is left.

We must move forward, and not duck from impeachment, unless the evidence shows there was no obstruction (ha ha). It is necessary to establish a robust separation of powers and that the rule of law matters greatly. That is what is at stake. If the evidence ends up not being substantial enough for removal from office, so be it. If the individual members of Congress make a bad judgement based on politics rather than facts then it is up to the voters to determine their fate. Many would survive, I'm sure. The power is in the hands of the people.


A televised proceeding, including on Fox, would show who the liars really are and only in this manner can we have an informed public. Armed with that the public can decide. Some would still decide wrongly but that happens in a Democratic Republic. We badly need a cleansing and get back to operating within the parameters of the law. If we don't do this I don't see a way forward - not with the level of distrust that is in the air.

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 11:16 PM

42. If we don't impeach Trump it gives license to future presidents and presidential

candidate. As long as you win you can do anything even commit treason.

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Fri Apr 19, 2019, 11:55 PM

44. Haven't come to a decision yet, but I tend to lean toward this reasoning.

The stupid DoJ policy has left us with nothing except impeachment with which to defend our democracy. We have to do something to show ourselves, our country, the world, that the integrity of our democracy matters. I'm not sure that we even have a whole lot of choice in this. And, yes, having the truth on our side makes a huge difference.

I don't expect we'll be successful in removing him from office. But I do expect that the process itself, the process of finding the truth and exposing it, will go a long way toward re-affirming our democratic values and the idea of truth itself.

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 12:08 AM

45. Well written

Tonight I had dinner, included were the FiL and BiL, both hardcore repubs. tRump came up at the end, BiL in law tried to claim that the Mueller report HAD to go to Barr and he HAD to review it and summarize because of a law written after the Whitewater report. (See how they do that, spin it to a Dem problem, Dems made them do it!)

I said no, SiL asked why did Barr do it?, I told them because he is crooked and trying to protect tRump. Bil went to his phone, Fil admitted Barr is acting crooked, SiL states, "when he said I'm fucked it convinced her.

FiL looked sick, BiL had no fight. So three tRump voters, one admits he is guilty, other has no defense, one goes with the bullshit he sees on Drudge.

tRump needs to be called out, make his supporters defend him.

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Response to rufus dog (Reply #45)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 08:15 AM

47. Wow, your post is a very interesting account of the reactions of some of your family members

 

to the Mueller Report.

If you get time, you should consider doing that one as an original post in a separate thread. I think a lot of people here on DU can relate to it, and with families getting together for the Easter weekend, I'm sure there would be lots of other similarly interesting accounts. Thanks for posting that here.

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Response to rufus dog (Reply #45)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 08:24 AM

50. "no fight" I'm noticing this too

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 08:21 AM

48. Good analysis

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 08:23 AM

49. ********** Russia will back thier whore again in 2020********

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 08:31 AM

53. Excuse my Latin, but. . ."GOPus Delendus Est"

. . .The. GOP. Must. Be. Destroyed.

If we cannot get conviction by the Senate after impeachment by the House. . .

. . .then all of us must work to ensure the complete and utter destruction of the GOP. At EVERY level. By any and all means necessary.

22 GOP Senators are up for re-election in 2020. Just sayin'.


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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 08:41 AM

56. People are leaving out one important consideration,

 

If we choose to not impeach we will never see Mueller's grand jury evidence. All of the juicy information is in that grand jury testimonies. Take this prediction to the bank, Barr will never release Mueller's grand jury information unless we impeach. Barr has stated that he will release the grand jury info for impeachment. Barr will fight the subpoenas in the courts until it gets close to the election. Then Barr will call for investigations of the FBI and Democrats who carried out a witch hunt against Donald Trump. Barr is going to investigate Hillary Clinton again and Trump is going to put Hillary on the 2020 ballot.

We sit back and don't impeach at our own peril. Drastic times call for drastic measures.

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 09:34 AM

57. Don't forget that statute of limitations time-frame is in play now.

Rachel Maddow was discussing this yesterday. Almost all of the Trump situations / transgressions / potential criminal involvements that Muller investigated occurred in 2017. The statute of limitations on these events lapses in five years— 2022.

If impeachment is not pursued now, and if, for some extraordinarily crooked reason, Trump should retain the presidency, he will run out the calendar on the investigated incidents (which comprise the basis for impeachment), and he would, effective 2022, become a free man. (Not factoring in the New York State investigations.)

Using the frustrating Mueller guideline that one “cannot indict a sitting president,” should Trump lose the 2020 election and become a private citizen in January, 2021, he can still be prosecuted for what’s already on the books.

Think Trump wants to stay in office much? He will fight like a cornered animal, because losing could mean a trip to prison.

Start impeachment proceedings immediately. Chasten that bastard NOW. No conviction possible? Screw it, that’s not the goal, which is to keep him on the defensive, put him under stress and pressure from multiple directions to exhaust that monster, and have his approval ratings tank lower than ever. If his people and Russia conspire again to throw the election, America will be screwed beyond recognition...forever.

Impeach now. It’s not a sure thing, but it’s the right thing to do. And I seriously doubt that it’d “hand the election over to Trump.” That notion presupposes that there are scads of Trump voters out there who are considering voting for a Democratic candidate. That’s such a bullshit line— as if those who worship their white-nationalist Neanderthal figurehead could be lured away from their fuhrer.

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 09:47 AM

58. I think you are absolutely right if....

..the Democrats are aggressive and demanding.

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)


Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 11:38 AM

61. There'll Be Trouble Either Way

Based on facts in evidence, I think Trump should be impeached already. Articles drawn up, debated, and voted out by the House. I don't greatly mind if there's hearings with witnesses and testimony in order to shore up the case, though I am doubtful about the goal that is often expressed -- educating the public. There are vast swaths of the public that don't care to be educated. That is, I'm not inclined to agree with this part of the OP:

If Trump is impeached and the GOP in the Senate does not vote to remove him, it's the Republicans who stand to lose at the ballot box in 2020 because any law abiding Americans will lose any remaining respect that they had for those assholes to begin with. Rest assured that there are a lot of decent Americans who got fooled into voting for Trump in 2016. Through the impeachment hearings alone, those folks would see the light, they'll see the truth, and they will not be fooled again.


I don't think any, much less many, decent Americans voted for Trump in 2016. In voting for Trump you turned in your decency card. And if after two years you are still a Trump supporter, you are a card-carrying degenerate. I think it's a delusion to believe that hearings and witnesses and testimonies will reach these people -- or at least requires a wealth of optimism that I don't possess.

Impeach him if possible, but don't count on enlightening the third of the country that are no more capable of political participation than a bag of crankshafts.

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 02:15 PM

63. well said

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 02:30 PM

64. He will just keep a rampaging until he's dictator

 

And the Republicans are enabling it

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 03:49 PM

67. Where were the "impeach'' war drums during the Bush administration?

 

Let us not make that mistake ever again. Bush, Cheney and Co. should have been kicked out of office and locked up.

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 04:18 PM

68. one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing.

.................... "The dictatorship, and the whole process of its coming into being, was above all diverting. It provided an excuse not to think for people who did not want to think anyway. I do not speak of your ‘little men,’ your baker and so on; I speak of my colleagues and myself, learned men, mind you. Most of us did not want to think about fundamental things and never had. There was no need to. Nazism gave us some dreadful, fundamental things to think about—we were decent people—and kept us so busy with continuous changes and ‘crises’ and so fascinated, yes, fascinated, by the machinations of the ‘national enemies,’ without and within, that we had no time to think about these dreadful things that were growing, little by little, all around us. Unconsciously, I suppose, we were grateful. Who wants to think?


"To live in this process is absolutely not to be able to notice it—please try to believe me—unless one has a much greater degree of political awareness, acuity, than most of us had ever had occasion to develop. Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, ‘regretted,’ that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these ‘little measures’ that no ‘patriotic German’ could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head.
‘Resist the beginnings’ and ‘Consider the end.’ But one must foresee the end in order to resist, or even see, the beginnings. One must foresee the end clearly and certainly and how is this to be done, by ordinary men or even by extraordinary men? Things might have. And everyone counts on that might.


"You see," my colleague went on, "one doesn’t see exactly where or how to move. Believe me, this is true. Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow. You don’t want to act, or even talk, alone; you don’t want to ‘go out of your way to make trouble.’ Why not?—Well, you are not in the habit of doing it. And it is not just fear, fear of standing alone, that restrains you; it is also genuine uncertainty.


"Uncertainty is a very important factor, and, instead of decreasing as time goes on, it grows. Outside, in the streets, in the general community, ‘everyone’ is happy. One hears no protest, and certainly sees none. You know, in France or Italy there would be slogans against the government painted on walls and fences; in Germany, outside the great cities, perhaps, there is not even this. In the university community, in your own community, you speak privately to your colleagues, some of whom certainly feel as you do; but what do they say? They say, ‘It’s not so bad’ or ‘You’re seeing things’ or ‘You’re an alarmist.’


https://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.html

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 04:59 PM

70. ""In the body politic as in the body personal, nonresistance to the milder indulgences paves the way

for nonresistance to the deadlier.”

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Response to mtnsnake (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2019, 07:57 PM

71. Here Here! Proudly second

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