If the House Does NOT Impeach Trump Will Use it Against Us.

[Tom Rinaldo]

For starters he would call that another case of his being "exonerated." His spin is as obvious as his orange hue. Democrats and the media raised "a hue and cry" about him working with the Russians, and demanded an investigation, claiming it would prove him guilty. Democrats got what they asked for but not the results they expected, he claims. Trump points to not being indicted, to "no evidence of collusion", as proof that the investigation was a hoax all along. Mueller called their bluff and exposed Democrats lies, that is the story in Trump world.

If the House does not impeach Trump Trump will say it is because the evidence does not support impeachment and Democrats know it. Full stop. Trump would call a failure to move articles of Impeachment against him as a tacit acknowledgement by Democrats that there are no real grounds to support that move. He will call the Mueller Report the first exoneration and no move toward impeachment as his second exoneration.

And then he will attack Democrats with it. He will call everything Democrats say in the wake of Mueller's Report being released as just an effort to smear him, because our lies would be exposed if Democrats actually attempted to make any formal move against him. And that, he will say, is why we don't take that step. I fully expect that Trump would go even further than that though. He would say that if Democrats really believed half of what they say against them they would have been bound by the Constitution to begin an Impeachment process.

Trump won't say that now of course. He will only say that after the impeachment threat is over AND the 2020 Presidential campaign is being waged against his by then designated Democratic opponent. He will say Democrats always knew that they lacked the evidence to impeach, so they had to resort to slander. He will say we couldn't put up but then refused to shut up. He will say any Democrat who actually believed the lies they kept spouting against him but didn't move to impeach him is a coward and even traitor to their oath of office, motivated only by politics and which way the wind is blowing. Trump will say that the House refusing to impeach him is the ultimate proof of his total innocence and the ultimate proof that it was always just a partisan witch hunt meant only to unlawfully take down his presidency

[uponit7771]

1. K&R, Putin's Bottom Bitch and Baghdad Barr will make up 23423 investigations into democrats

Last edited Sat Apr 20, 2019, 11:35 AM - Edit history (1)

[Eliot Rosewater]

2. In other words even though rump is a traitor criminal and the Dems are the ACTUAL good guys and gals

they are damned if they do, damned if they dont.

sigh

[Tom Rinaldo]

6. More damned if they don't in my opinion.

There is a chance that the vivid drama of impeachment hearings may actually end up working in our favor come election day 2020, regardless of what Republicans do in the Senate.

Conventional wisdom holds that a failed effort to remove a President, along partisan lines,works to the disadvantage of those who attempted it. But that CW is based on a single instance in modern times. When Republicans impeached but failed to remove Bill Clinton. BUT THAT instance clearly exposed the purely political motivation of Republicans trying to remove Clinton, because the charges were so obviously petty in comparison to "the remedy" they sought. In this instance the charges can not be more serous. Trump, if nothing else, attempted to derail an investigation into how Russia subverted our democracy. He knowingly provided cover to a hostile government attack on our nation and it's fundamental governance AFTER he called for and welcomed that attack in the first place

If Republicans close ranks around Trump when all of that is included in the counts for impeachment, when all of the evidence supports that, I would not be confident that the old conventional wisdom will again prevail. It could very well work to the detriment of the Republican Party if they whitewash Trumps fundamental unfitness to hold the office of the presidency.

[Eliot Rosewater]

8. Yes, YOU are saying DAMN if they dont, the next person will say DAMN if they do, dont you and others

see how this is harmful?

[Tom Rinaldo]

9. I'm not saying Damn if they don't. I am saying it will be a mistake if they don't

and gave my reasons for that opinion. I have not blasted a single Democrat for not having called for impeachment. But I am predicting that we all will end up regretting it if Democrats don't.

[dalton99a]

12. +1

[uponit7771]

17. +1, Don't forget Russia will back their guy again in 2020

[Bradshaw3]

26. Well said n/t

[Ponietz]

3. You're right, that's just for starters

[gulliver]

4. You're right, but we don't need to rush into or away from impeachment.

We need to use the impeachment topic as a theme to get at the whole Republican Party.

[Cracklin Charlie]

5. I have to agree.

Now is not the time to loosen the screws.

Maybe there exists a process, short of impeachment, to keep the pressure on the Republicons while educating the public of their crimes. Would robust investigations be enough?

[better]

16. No, they would not, unless impeachment is thoroughly on the table, for one simple reason.

Barring impeachment, the only possible remedies of which Congress can avail itself hinge upon the DOJ neutrally prosecuting referrals made to them by Congress, and we have no reason at present to expect that to happen with Barr at the head of the DOJ.

As such, hearings without the teeth of a credible threat of impeachment are toothless tigers, and everyone knows it. The people who still need to be convinced will ignore and deride the proceedings much like we largely ignored and derided all the Benghazi bullshit, because they know they will be of no practical consequence.

Impeachment proceedings have real consequences against which the only defense lies with elected representatives who actually must answer to the people directly.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

7. Yeah, no shit!! Impeach Dolt-45 now!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[GulfCoast66]

34. No thanks. We tried that in Florida last fall.

Nominated a guy I liked a lot that tied himself to Bernie. Rejected a good mainstream democrat who could have won.

Now we have Governor DeSantis. Not going down that road again.

Especially since we only won the house by running moderate democrats in districts normally won by republicans. All the Freshmen who are making the news, you know them, won safe Democratic districts. And their actions are definitely not helping the Democratic freshmen who actually picked up republican seats.

Give me a good, proven mainstream democrat. May not be to my total liking. But after seeing Florida not follow the trend in 2018 I’m not all in for de revolution.

[TwilightZone]

10. If we impeach Trump and he's acquitted, he'll use it against us.

Let's not pretend that that assertion isn't equally valid. Everything you argue applies to both situations.

[Tom Rinaldo]

11. Of course he will argue that position

But Americans will have viewed the actual hearings themselves under this scenario. There are very few "no brainers" at the highest levels of politics. I am not claiming that this decision is one, just making a case for why, in addition to matters of principle, impeaching is the best route forward among the possible choices.

[Clarity2]

13. That really does not matter

In the process, the public will have heard tangible evidence of his wrongdoing. That will be a stronger influence on who votes for him if hes acquitted.

I also fully agree with E. Warren. If we don't try to impeach, we’ve just set precedence for future presidencies and getting away with obstruction of justice, AND possibly a russian asset in the white house, AND a President shirking a foreign adversary interfering in our elections. Thats a sobering thought and Republicans need to think about that in regard to any party’s president and rule of law.

Elizabeth Warren:

This is about a point of principle,” said Warren on MSNBC. “The report is absolutely clear that a foreign government attacked our electoral system to help Donald Trump. He welcomed that help, and then when it was investigated by our own federal authorities, Donald Trump took multiple steps to try to obstruct justice. This isn’t about politics. This isn’t even specifically about Donald Trump himself. It is about what a president of the United States should be able to do and what the role of Congress is in saying ‘no, a president does not get to come in and stop an investigation about a foreign power that attacked this country, or about an investigation about his own wrongdoing.‘“

[Trumpocalypse]

18. Actually he'll have a stronger case

if he’s acquitted in the Senate. He’ll be able to claim that he was exonerated.

[Tom Rinaldo]

20. Barr did all his backflips for a reason

Barr managed the release of Mueller's redacted report the way he has so as to totally frame the narrative for Trump. He got in front of the news cycle and helped mold public opinion that there was "no there there" before the facts were ever presented.

Impeachment hearings, likely to be followed by a full trial in the Senate, will rivet the nation. ALL of the evidence against Trump will be aired, and the whole world will see it. That would be the ultimate framing event. Should Republicans then vote not to remove the President on partisan lines the matter will correctly be seen as a partisan move. The public will then have to decide which side played politics with our nation's security.

Yes Trump will campaign on a Republican Senate's exoneration. Democrats will campaign on the evidence that the whole nation will by then have been exposed to, and we will claim Republicans should be judged on what they chose to do in response to that evidence. I prefer our hand in that scenario, I certainly prefer it to our hand if we refuse to impeach based on the evidence mow before us.

[Trumpocalypse]

22. No

Acquittal in the Senate will hand Trump and the GOP a victory heading into the 20 election.

Democrats can still have hearing that will air all the evidence for everyone to see while Democratic candidates can campaign on issues like healthcare and jobs.

[UniteFightBack]

14. Rump will try to use anything against us, anything at all. Look WTF he did with wind turbines.

I'm not concerned because a rump gonna trumpet no matter what.

[world wide wally]

15. If we don't impeach, I would fear a backlash of disenchanted Democratic voters.

It just gives the GOP more fodder for their attacks and makes us look like we agree with Trumps assessment that it was all a witch hunt.
Don't back down.

[Trumpocalypse]

19. So Dems that want Trump removed from office

are just going to sit home and let Trump get re-elected? That makes no sense.

And doesn’t it give the GOP more fodder to call it a witch-hunt if Trump is acquitted in the Senate.

[Tom Rinaldo]

21. I responded to a similar point above, but I believe they have the most fodder if even we don't deem

impeachment a necessary step. That can easily be spun as a tacit acknowledgement that it was always just a witch hunt meant to embarrass the President. It gives an official acknowledgement to his position. No charges, no collusion, no impeachment, no nothing whatsoever. A witch hunt that even Democrats won't pursue.

[Trumpocalypse]

30. BS

Dems can still investigate and censure. Without a conviction impeachment is a useless exercise that will hand Trump and the GOP a big victory going in to the election.

And any Dem/liberal/progressive who stays home in 20 because they think the Dems let them down by not impeaching Trump will be complicit in helping Trump getting a second term.

[world wide wally]

27. Everybody already knows the Senate won't convict, but if we hand them the time bomb

before we walk away, they own it.
I see impeachment as a win-win

[Trumpocalypse]

28. That is naive

Remember not everyone thinks like you. If they did Trump would not have been elected in the first place.

[ProfessorPlum]

32. As Frank Coniff says

I can understand the Democratic leadership's caution about impeaching Trump. It would piss off MAGA hat wearing racist sexist fuckface dipshits who would never vote for a decent human being under any circumstance, so we don't want to risk losing them

.

[Trumpocalypse]

33. One person's opinion

And without a conviction in the Senate will hand Trump a victory going in to the election.

[luvtheGWN]

25. A view from the GWN (Great White North, folks)

Over the last 30-40 years, it seems as though the GOP, aided and abetted, and funded by their corporate welfare queen whores, have walked all over the Democrats (aka Doormats). The exception, of course, was Obama's election, but then the GOP created the Tea Party -- noisy and angry with an overload of rightwing support. That Obama was even re-elected was not just a tribute to him, but thanks to Romney speaking his own truth and being recorded while saying it.

My impression of the Democratic Party is that it's made up of kind, caring, decent people, whose reaction to the down-and-dirty political machinations of the republicans is that "If we start behaving that way, we're just as bad as them."

NO, NO you're not! Bullies only respect those who stand up to them. Voters too.

Congressional hearings MUST happen to get the truth out to as many voter eyes and ears as possible. If the truth proves that impeachment proceedings must constitutionally follow, then be like Nike -- for god's sake, JUST DO IT.

Thanks for listening, and letting this Canuck contribute to the discussion. And please remember, if you're going to participate in the political arena, always bear in mind that politics IS the art of compromise. And compromise does not work if only one side is willing to employ it.

[mountain grammy]

23. Yes yes and yes

Do it Dems!

[EveHammond13]

24. Yes - the decision on impeachment is made in my view. We must impeach.

[moondust]

29. He's going to belch a big pile of bullshit

no matter what anybody else does.

[Nevermypresident]

31. We must begin Impeachment Proceedings

[Martin Eden]

35. If the House DOES impeach, Trump will use it against us

When the Senate fails to impeach, Trump will again claim TOTAL EXONERATION and go on and on about angry Democrats and their failed witch hunt.

No matter what the House does going forward in this matter, Trump will lie and spin it against us.

We can't be influenced by what Trump will say.

The Democratic House should to be guided by fulfilling their Constitutional duty while being politically smart enough to win both houses and the presidency in 2020.

I am in favor of impeachment because it is the Constitutional duty of Congress to remove this criminal from office. When Senate Republicans fail to perform their duty we need to use that AGAINST THEM.

[Tom Rinaldo]

36. "When Senate Republicans fail to perform their duty we need to use that AGAINST THEM."

Trump's treachery will be well known to the nation by that point. Live impeachment hearings cut through the chattering heads, even the ones at FOX. Tens of millions will watch it. Sales of the Mueller Report will skyrocket (yes I know it's online for free but some people want their paperbacks). The evidence against Trump will be heard, will be seen , Barr will not be able to pre-filter it.

I agree with your above point. Just because we can predict the move republicans will make does not mean that we can not powerfully counter it.