Even after the Mueller report, I still say Trump should NOT be impeached.

[Archae]

Not? Yes. Not.

1. O'Connell will run interference in the Senate for him.

2. He'll paint himself as a "martyr to the leftist liberals."

3. It'll be a partisan farce.

[empedocles]

1. traitortrump polls are starting to drop; let them drop some more, then reconsider,

perhaps 'con Senators will start to reconsider.

[UniteFightBack]

3. Yes this needs to marinate awhile. Let's go about our business and to quote a colossal asshole

'we'll see what happens'.......

[brewens]

5. Yup. It's not gonna stink any less as things proceed. I'm sure about that. n/t

[Archae]

6. I read somewhere when the Watergate hearings began...

The polls for impeaching Nixon were at 14%.

They sure did jump after the "Saturday Night Massacre."

[shraby]

2. Depends on the people and how riled they get after the rest of the

report and the hearings.

So far, most hearings have been behind closed doors. These will be public hearings. Big difference.

[Big Blue Marble]

4. If a Democratic Party pragmatist, you are correct, at least in the short term.

If a constitutionalist, you are wrong. Somethings are bigger than party;
somethings are even bigger than winning. If the Democrats let this
criminal behavior stand and Trump wins a second term, the party is
finished. And there is at least a 50% chance he will win. The odds
go higher with the help from other countries.

[Archae]

7. I'm a realist.

20 years ago I pretty much predicted how the Clinton impeachment would go.

I was a teenager when Nixon cut and ran.

[Big Blue Marble]

12. I was an adult who closely followed the Nixon impeachment process

from the time of the break in. As a realist which is basically, a synonym for
pragmatist, you recall that the parties that did the impeachments in fact did
go on to win the presidency and hold both houses of congress the next term
Where were the the voter penalties?

[Archae]

20. I don't think there were any voter penalties.

Voters had "Nixon/Clinton fatigue," which lasted into the 2016 election.

I'm beginning to like Buttigieg more and more.

[TwilightZone]

11. "If the Democrats let this criminal behavior stand"

Which they're not. Perhaps you are unaware, but there are multiple ongoing investigations into Trump, his family, his cronies, and his foundation, both in and out of Congress.

This is not a binary situation. The alternative to immediate impeachment is not do nothing.

[Big Blue Marble]

15. There is no alternative to impeachment.

If we do not impeach, we are by definition letting the criminal
behavior stand. You can investigate, but for what purpose
without a means to indict. You can hold hearing after hearing
without impeachment And Trump will still be your president.

You are counting on changing public opinion. And so far
that has failed and failed completely. No rational person
would believe that a president who has behaved as this one has
could still hold enough public support that he could (with
the help of foreign support be re-elected.) But that is
where we are. There is at least least a 50% likelyhood
that he will be re-elected.

That is a risky gamble to take: one that could finish our
republic, if he is re-elected. And his re-election in the face
of his disregarded criminal behavior will, indeed destroy
the credibility of the Democratic Party.

[MaryMagdaline]

26. Agree

[Grasswire2]

8. again..................not the point.

The goal of opening an impeachment inquiry is to focus public attention in order to drive a groundswell in the citizenry for 2020.

[FreepFryer]

9. All that will happen anyway. (n/t)

[watoos]

14. No it won't,

We will never see the grand jury testimony unless we impeach. Barr will stall it out until the election, Barr and Republicans will fight every subpoena, fight every request for documents. The only way we see the juicy stuff from the grand jury will be from impeachment.

Barr is going to open investigations on the FBI and "Democrats" who led a witch hunt against Trump.

Time is getting short to get the grand jury information, debates start in 6 weeks.

[FreepFryer]

16. You may misunderstand me. I'm disagreeing with the OP and calling for hearings immediately.

My comment is directed at the risks articulated in the OP:

1. O'Connell will run interference in the Senate for him.

2. He'll paint himself as a "martyr to the leftist liberals."

3. It'll be a partisan farce.

Such deflections, spin, lies and the like will happen whether hearings occur or not.

[manor321]

10. Your opinion is just not defensible

I cannot believe anyone on DU would say we can't do something because it would make Republicans mad.

Just silly.

Get on the impeachment train! It is leaving the station! choo choo!

[Big Blue Marble]

13. And all I can say is that if the roles were reversed, the Republicans would have

already impeached and well be on the way to removal. This is how the
Democrats are losing the war for our country, always being careful, always
trying to hide behind the status quo. It is not working. It did not work in
2000 when Gore did not fight harder and did not work when McConnell
stole the Supreme Court seat in 2016 and it did not work when McConnell
suppressed the intelligence that Russia was helping Trump's campaign.
and it will not work now.

You are counting on the voters to rectify this, when they have shown over and
over, they are not capable of doing so. In the meantime, what is left of
republic, is slipping away. We all feel it. The time to act is now.

[FreepFryer]

17. This. (nt)

[SunSeeker]

22. Exactly. nt

[durablend]

24. If it's left up to the voters

NOTHING will happen to him.

If he's reelected, impeachment is definitely off the table ("the people clearly didn't want it" ), if he's kicked out of office we'll be told "we need to look forward, not backward"

[Awsi Dooger]

18. Impeachment is not going to happen

People who obsess over day to day developments kid themselves all the time. As soon as something shows up, they project to the extreme and beyond. I can't imagine going through life like that.

On this site it is nourished by watching Rachel Maddow and her 5-year window, or whatever it is I've read about a few times. Meanwhile there is no 5-year window because there won't be impeachment and Trump's crimes will not be prosecuted. Rachel can talk about a 5 year window just like she giggled while waving a 2016 poll showing Hillary within a few points in South Carolina. It can fool the day to day types but it is mere comedy for those of us who understand wide scope reality.

The Mueller investigation simply dragged on too long. Trump offered his greatest atrocities early in his first year. Americans were stunned at his words and conduct. Non-presidential every day. A new crisis every day. Alternative facts. Swing independents who backed Trump in 2016 quickly deserted him. Then when the Russia information began to surface, removing Trump seemed possible. That's when impeachment would have been viable, if Democrats held the House. Trump had low to mid 30s level late in 2017, at about the time of the Roy Moore election. That's exactly when the Tom Steyer "Need to Impeach" commercials began airing.

Fast forward to 2019. Americans have become conditioned to Donald Trump. His approval rating is not going to drop 3 points as a result of the Mueller release. I can state that flat out. I don't care about one poll. Elizabeth Warren understands she needs an artificial boost so naturally she immediately chimes in with a grandstanding call for impeachment. That feeds into the emotion here and among the Democratic base. But again, it is not going to fool a handicapper. Nancy Pelosi will properly identify the mood of the nation, and the risk. We are simply too close to 2020 and there simply wasn't anything explosive enough at first divulge of the Mueller report. First divulge is exponentially more significant than fine print details because the public reacts to first divulge.

When the nation waits...and waits...and waits...and waits, it expects the first headlines to be ultra damning. But that was never going to happen because Trump co-conspirators controlled the paperwork and the dialog. Impeachment was gone as soon as water cooler talk the next day centered around Trump being cleared by Mueller. Now we're in explaining mode, which is low upside by definition.

[Ferrets are Cool]

19. I don't want the fucker impeached

I want him jailed.

[manchu]

23. Some folks misunderstand what impeachment is

Yes it will feel good to see Repubs squirm but do we really want to possibly trade the presidency and 4 more years of this monster to feel satisfaction right now? Even if Trump is impeached tomorrow he will be the president in 2020. No Repub senator in their right mind would vote to remove him and no they dont give a damn about trying to defend the crimes. They know any vote to convict means they lose their senate seat to a primary challenger. They wouldn't make it to general election. I keep hearing about impeach and remove the President but that simply wouldn't be the case.

[Ferrets are Cool]

27. I agree

[SunSeeker]

21. We already have all 3 things. Not impeaching will depress Dem turnout and absolve a traitor.

We have the majority in the House. We can and must impeach. It doesnot matter if the Senate will not convict. We must be on record as stating that a President WHO WELCOMES A FOREIGN ADVERSARY'S ATTACK IN ORDER TO WIN ELECTION, THEN FLAGRANTLY OBSTRUCTS THE INVESTIGATION INTO THAT ATTACK must not sit in the White House.


READ. THE. REPORT. Mueller gave us the roadmap to impeachment and correctly stated it is Congress' job.

This isn't a political game. This is about our country.

If we let this stand, it means future presidential candidates can collude with foreign adversaries to win election, and can obstruct justice WITH IMPUNITY. The right has demonstrated they will not punish their candidates for such conduct. We cannot follow the example of the deplorables.

[beachbum bob]

25. defending a corrupt president is what WE NEED TO FORCE GOP to do, anything else, we deserve

trump