To those who claim we should "leave it to the voters in 2020" - PLEASE don't forget one big thing

[calimary]

Last edited Mon Apr 22, 2019, 04:10 AM - Edit history (2)

I was asked to make a thread out of a post to an earlier thread “To those who say that impeachment is not necessary because the voters can decide in 2020...” I say it IS necessary, it is URGENT, and it's Urgent RIGHT FREAKIN' NOW.

Even more worrisome regarding those who think we should just leave it to the voters, I'm not sure they fully grasp that nothing's been done to stop Russia from violating our sovereignty again. NOTHING’S been done. I submit, again, that nothing’s been done on this because trump and his GOP apologists want that help AGAIN. I suspect they want that help even more desperately now, since the cover’s been blown and Democrats have made decisive hard-to-ignore gains in the House of Reps and in state legislatures across America. Not to mention that the clock is ticking on statutes of limitations on many of these crimes. Rachel Maddow outlined this on Friday (April 19th) that trump would be even more motivated to move heaven and earth to stay in office because the statute of limitations runs out in 2022. That would be halfway through - heaven forbid - his second term. The Russians, meanwhile, probably are VERY interested in leaving their puppet in place where he can do them the most good and America the most harm.

The GOP's “Job One” going forward is to try to blunt those gains we fought so hard to make, last November, take it all back, flip the House to red again so Kevin McCarthy gets to take the Speaker’s gavel from Nancy Pelosi, and all those inconvenient and annoying committee investigations can come to an end. And they know it’s an uphill battle with everything the public is starting to see and the exposure of some of the hidden truths. That’s why they’re working so desperately hard on the “no collusion” crap. I just heard MSNBC’s Kristen Welker describe a GOP wish to “turn the page” and try to lead the public perception toward moving on to other crimes-OOPS-I-mean-“agenda-priorities”.

Just watch: they’re gonna try in one way or other to push the “we need to move on” stuff, hard. They’ll push the “nothing to see here” and “no collusion” crap AND the “now we need to investigate the investigators!” crap. They’ll try to obstruct and drag out the process long enough that the Dems can’t get much done on the very necessary investigations now underway, til they hope they can regain the House and stop that pursuit of accountability cold.

They want Devin Nunes (mis)leading the House Intelligence Committee again (not Democrat Adam Schiff). Sure was pretty effective last time, ‘eh? They ignored, neglected, or outright buried everything and anything that might threaten their precious donald.
They want Congressman See-No-Evil chairing the Judiciary Committee (not Democrat Jerry Nadler).
They want Congressman Hear-No-Evil back in charge at Ways and Means (not Democrat Rich Neal).
They want Congressman Speak-No-Evil running the Financial Services Committee again (not Democrat Maxine Waters).
And Congressman Sergeant-Schultz back in control of the Oversight and Reform Committee (not Democrat Elijah Cummings). “... I know nothing! Nothing!”

Why? Because then they can muffle all those inconvenient questions and make all that bothersome investigation stuff go AWAY. And once again, the way will be smoothed for their lord and master to do whatever-the-fuck he wants. With impunity.

THAT’S why we need to keep the pressure up, protect AND BUILD on our gains in 2020, and Get Out The Vote like our lives, liberty, and our very democracy depend on it. Because they DO.

We CAN’T let up.

We CAN’T AFFORD TO let up.

And we sure as hell can’t rest on our 2018 laurels or decide we’ve “got this” and roll over and go back to sleep like we did in the 1970s. Back then we thought we “got this” and the ERA was almost a done deal (we’re there! Just three more states!) and Vietnam was finally over and we’d gotten rid of Nixon leftover Gerald Ford and put Jimmy Carter in the White House.

DO NOT forget what happened after that. Carter was cheated out of a second term, and the dreadful age of Reagan and the long-desired wrong-wing rebirth and return to dominance began.

What do you think? Are YOU willing to risk it on the result of next year's vote?

Are you ready to trust that the Russians won't be there, again, to help the asset-of-their-wildest-dreams stay in power?

Are you tempted to assume that there won't be other bad actors getting involved, like maybe China, or other interests that seek to do us harm and get themselves ahead, now that they've seen how well it worked out for Russia - and how easy it was to pull off (especially if there are no consequences, like, say, impeachment)?

What’s it gonna be?

From the original thread "To those who say that impeachment is not necessary because the voters can decide in 2020" by Baitball Blogger.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212027475#post75

[50 Shades Of Blue]

1. K & R!

[BigmanPigman]

2. Agree 100% and I am not ever going to budge on this issue.

We can not afford to "wait until 2020" for many more reasons than why we should wait.

[Pepsidog]

24. Im convinced we must impeach. Expose these traitors

[Fiendish Thingy]

3. The Constitution can't wait until 2020

If people can give their lives to protect the Constitution, we can risk an election.

See my sig line for link to rationale for impeachment.

[artislife]

8. !!! nt

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

4. Did we ever figure out how it happened the first time, so we can "plug the holes" in 2020?

If not, why not?!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Ponietz]

5. Putin sure as hell does not want impeachment

Remember that.

[oasis]

6. I'm beginning to lean for impeachment, but I've got all the time

in the world to think it over.

[watoos]

21. Not really

If we want to see the grand jury info we better hurry, elections are fast approaching.
Don’ t understand why people don’t get it that Barr is not going to release grand jury info unless we impeach.

[Ferryboat]

7. You should send this to every major newspaper.

[smirkymonkey]

9. K&R

[UTUSN]

10. K&R

[NRaleighLiberal]

11. Exactly! Kick and rec.

[patphil]

12. Yes, we should let the voters decide in 2020, BUT

only AFTER a thorough and complete investigation by the House to determine if articles of impeachment are warranted.
The American public has a right to know the truth, regardless of where it leads.
The Mueller Report is only a starting point; a roadmap of Presidential abuse of power.
If the Democrats in the House do nothing, the truth may never be known.
The Republicans are hoping this is how it plays out.
Their ONLY hope for re-electing Trump, holding on to the Senate, and re-taking the House is for the Democrats to do nothing.
If the Democrats refuse to act, they Republicans will use that against them in 2020.
They will claim that no action was taken because no action was warranted.
Trump would get a free ride back to the Oval Office, and the Republicans would maintain control for the foreseeable future.
The Republic might never recover.

Patrick Phillips

[IndianaDave]

13. My Friends -- Just because Deadhead Trump hasn't directed the Intelligence Agencies to act

doesn't mean that they aren't doing everything within their power to thwart interference in our elections. By their very nature and mission, they know that their obligation is to protect our democratic process.

I trust Dan Coates and Christopher Wray to do their jobs, in spite of the negligence of the idiot in chief. These guys have access to information about cyber attacks into it our elections that they very likely are not sharing with the Czar in the White House. They don't say such things publicly, because of the predictable blowback from T-Rump. But their statements to Congress and in other public settings strongly convinces me that they are on the job.

Just because Dogfart Grump hasn't given them specific instructions to protect our elections doesn't mean that they are failing to do so. They know their jobs, and they don't require such directions. And if they had been instructed to do nothing, it's hard to imagine that they would not resign or, at the very least, make that information public.

[pangaia]

20. I don;t know anything about Coates and Wray, other than they were appointed by trump

And that should say SOMETHING. Even as patriotic as they may be, trump could dump them at any time and put, oh, I don;t know. Kelley Ann or Laura Ingraham(??) in as FBI head... Whatever !!

[durablend]

40. This is snark, right? n/t

[SayItLoud]

14. I'm for nailing him to every cross.

But what happens when the House impeaches and the Senate either ignores or doesn't vote for impeachment? What's the negative for us in such circumstances? To me it's powerful talking points for the POS never potus45. "See only the Dems wanted to impeach me, I told you so, it's their continuing witch hunt". "they are not passing any legislation, just hunting me". He plays the victim care very well for his base and sows confusion.
Timing is of the essence for any moves toward impeachment IMO.

[durablend]

41. He's going to play the victim card regardless n/t

[defacto7]

15. You drive a great point. Your picture of what the GOP will run with

from here is spot on and for me that pretty much settles it. Impeachment is imperative.

[manor321]

16. Yep, "Leave it to 2020" is yet another bullshit argument.

The anti-impeachment folks have horrible arguments. LOL.

What the fuck happens if Trump wins in 2020? Does that fucking mean his actions were legitimate? People need to think that through!

[uponit7771]

17. ************I SAID THIS MULTIPLE TIMES !!! ************* Why Trust Russia Wont Help Trump Again!?!!

[triron]

18. Yes and if democrats don't impeach they and Trump will be even more emboldened.

The Russians and other conspirators will make 2016 look like child's play.

[uponit7771]

19. +1, Trump has even more ability now to help Russia help him. There are no laws that say clearly

... say that knowingly use assistance from outside nations is against the law.

[triron]

22. There may be laws, but proving a crime can be very difficult especially with obstruction.

The DOJ doesn't 'allow' indicting a sitting (even if illegitimate) POTUS.

[uponit7771]

32. Damn, that's some screwed up laws.

[triron]

36. Yep.

[Lotus54]

44. Can I asked a favor of you folks??

I cannot create a diary in DU yet, because I do not have ample posts. However, right now is the time for all of us to do our duty and our rights to our beloved Country, I believe the time is now ripe to ask The Congress to start the Impeachment Process.
We, the People, more than ever, need to take a huge leap and take a very important action.
Time is no longer on our side. We need to push Congress to be aggressive and do the right thing .....IMPEACH.... the criminal!!!!!


Please sign the petition below from Moveon.Org
And pass it to all your groups and friends

https://petitions.moveon.org/sign/congress-begin-impeachment

[humbled_opinion]

23. Leave it to the People ?

By next year the entire script will be flipped, they are already blaming Obama and their misinformation campaign is going to implicate Biden too, that is why the most important thing we can do is Impeach this prick, we can never allow a false narrative that somehow tRump is the victim to start, if that happens the "People" will wind up re-elected his simple ass.

[delisen]

25. Russia seems poised to continue choosing US presidents.

If not Trump than someone else.

Candidates need to denounce the Russian interference not try to ignore or divert, or discount.

[triron]

26. I can guarantee it will be Trump. He is in league with the kremlin.

[delisen]

30. At some point Kremlin may decide he is a liability and choose another vassal nt

Last edited Mon Apr 22, 2019, 07:24 PM - Edit history (1)

vassal- a holder of land by feudal tenure under conditions of homage and allegiance.

I think vassal does describe the relationship between Trump and Putin

Putin has placed Trump in office with dominion over America and Trump pays homage answers allegiance to Putin.

[Blue Owl]

27. K and fucking R

[panfluteman]

28. Excellent! Very Well Written! A Great Look into the Future!

We gotta get all the dirt on dirty Donald out there for all to see, at the very least - and not just leave it to the American voter to figure out for themselves.

[Nitram]

29. I believe the House should vote to impeach. We have let too many Republican crimes go without

calling them to judgement. If the Republican Senator votes against it, so be it. Democrats must do their duty and remind the world that we are a country of Laws and Justice. We let them torure in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Gitmo, we let them steal elections from Gore and Kerry. We can't let the crimes of this administration got without due process. Whether or not the Senate finds Trump guilty, we know he is and he must be called to account. We need to hold the line here.

[Irishxs]

34. +100%

[SunSeeker]

31. We must move to an impeachment investigatiion RIGHT NOW. It's the only way to get grand jury info

From the Washington Post:

In the face of Barr’s decision not to disclose any of the Mueller report to the public or even to the House Judiciary Committee chaired by Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D- N.Y.) until Barr and his team have scrubbed the report of grand jury information (and other material), Nadler and committee Democrats have authorized a subpoena for the full report, setting the stage for a court fight over the committee’s right to see grand jury information. Although the public need underlying the request for disclosure in McKeever was much less pressing, the decision in that case undermines the position of Nadler’s committee, because the controlling federal rule contains no exception allowing congressional “oversight” committees to demand access to otherwise secret grand jury proceedings.

One of the exceptions to grand jury secrecy is disclosure “preliminary to or in connection with a judicial proceeding.” To authorize disclosure of the Watergate grand jury information, the special prosecutor’s office argued that the House had authorized its Judiciary Committee to conduct a formal impeachment inquiry and that such an inquiry could be fairly analogized to a “grand jury” investigation and thus a judicial proceeding. Both the district court and the court of appeals agreed, and the Judiciary Committee obtained both the report and the underlying evidence.

Significantly, the appeals court decision several days ago reaffirmed that exception. All three judges agreed that an impeachment inquiry falls within the “exception for judicial proceedings” and “coheres” with other rulings about the proper scope of grand jury secrecy.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-full-mueller-report-could-be-released--if-the-house-opens-impeachment-hearings/2019/04/08/e47fff42-5a14-11e9-a00e-050dc7b82693_story.html

[Duppers]

33. Our elections are in danger.

Last edited Mon Apr 22, 2019, 12:31 AM - Edit history (1)

I fear the next election will be hacked.

Every Republican lawmaker supports this cheating. And it's obvious that the current admin has benefited and may be counting on this in the next Presidential election.

Expert Warned GOP Donors That a Voting Rights Bill will help Democrats
https://theintercept.com/2019/02/27/hr1-bill-voting-rights-republicans/

++++++++++

"The most dangerous coverup is that US voting machines are vulnerable to hackers. If we lose faith in election results, democracy crumbles. The Justice Dept should be focused on instituting paper ballot backups, per my Securing America's Elections Act."
- Rep. Gabbard
+++++++++++++++

Democrats introduce an election security bill that proposes paper trails
https://techcrunch.com/2018/06/13/protecting-american-votes-and-elections-act/

And 60Mins covered cyber hacking tonight.

Election fraud existed in this last Presidential election. How can we be assured that that tRump won't pull out all stops on the next one?

[Irishxs]

35. Either no one is above the law -- or not.

[calimary]

38. And btw, to those who fret and clutch their pearls about how it'll divide the country,

I have to just say “WTF?!?!??” We’re ALREADY divided. It’s been like that for quite some time by now. That horse left the barn a long time ago.

It comes down to this: do we protect the rule of law? And the Constitution? Or do we protect a lawless so-called pResident?

One other thing: have you called your Congresscritter today? Nancy Pelosi will be looking for excuses tonight in that conference call with the Democratic caucus. DO IT.

JUST DO IT. They work for YOU. You’re their employer and you pay their salaries and benefits. Make sure your employees know what you, their employer, want them to do on your behalf.

[MurrayDelph]

37. I believe we were told to "leave it to the voters" rather than fight it out

When Mitch McConnell refused to push through President Obama's nominees.


How'd that work for Justice Merrick Garland?

[Duppers]

39. Chances of this happening again?

Yep, I agree with you.

[calimary]

42. As long as we continue to do nothing to keep them out, that's a given.

I don't want to just "trust that the voters will take care of it in 2020."

Yeah? Well, we voters voted by approximately THREE MILLION MORE VOTES to put Hillary in the Oval Office in 2016. And look how that turned out.

[warmfeet]

43. Oh yes, it's time to act.

It's time to show the electorate that Democrats are for upholding the rule of law (in stark contrast to the orange asswipe worshipers).

If the rule of law means nothing, this country is lost.

Time to kick some ass.

[ancianita]

45. THIS!

AND THIS FROM PHILPAT

Their ONLY hope for re-electing Trump, holding on to the Senate, and re-taking the House is for the Democrats to do nothing.

If the Democrats refuse to act, they Republicans will use that against them in 2020.

They will claim that no action was taken because no action was warranted.

Trump would get a free ride back to the Oval Office, and the Republicans would maintain control for the foreseeable future.

The Republic might never recover.

If they don't impeach, the Republic will not exist. It will be a nation of men, not laws. Voters will no longer vote. Laws, campaigns will only exist for fascist corporate globalists. Mob theater. Local power wielded by SWATS, thugs and militia.

It may be years down the road, but I will pack up and leave before this becomes a shit hole country.