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Thu May 30, 2019, 11:17 AM

David Frum: The Wisest Remedy Is Not Impeachment

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/05/impeach-trump-not-yet/590578/

The Wisest Remedy Is Not Impeachment
If the Democrats move ahead at this juncture, it will backfire on them.
6:00 AM ET
David Frum


snip//

Pelosi, of course, has resisted the push for impeachment hearings. But more and more national Democrats are calling for them, and after yesterday’s Mueller statement, that flow may rush into a flood. They are upholding the case advanced by Yoni Appelbaum in The Atlantic: “Only by authorizing a dedicated impeachment inquiry can the House begin to assemble disparate allegations into a coherent picture, forcing lawmakers to consider both whether specific charges are true and whether the president’s abuses of his power justify his removal.”

Yet this very coherence could—and under present conditions likely will—undo itself. Right now Trump is fighting on many fronts to suppress many investigations of many different forms of alleged wrongdoing. He must plug more holes in the dike than he has fingers. But submerge all those many stories into one big question—“remove or don’t”—and the impeachers will have to focus their energy on the most salient allegations. The battlefront will narrow, and as it narrows, the unity of the executive branch will confer a tactical advantage on even a weak presidential defense over the fissiparous offense in the House of Representatives.

snip//

By focusing on many different issues at once rather than the singular issue of impeachment, Democrats have the chance to do three things:

They focus on the discovery of facts rather than arguments over consequences: “What wrongs did Trump do?” rather than “Is removal the right remedy for these wrongs?”

They liberate their presidential candidates to campaign on the bread-and-butter issues that will mobilize and motivate less-committed voters, rather than obliging them to opine on the big existential question of impeachment and removal.

They reserve the impeachment remedy for the very genuine possibility of a Trump second term, by which time the Senate will likely have shifted more in the Democrats’ direction.


Trump outrages the sense of justice. It is understandable that many yearn for urgent and decisive action to cleanse the American system. But wise action is better than urgent action, and the best decision is one that leads to success.

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Reply David Frum: The Wisest Remedy Is Not Impeachment (Original post)
babylonsister May 2019 OP
marybourg May 2019 #1
lapfog_1 May 2019 #2
StarfishSaver May 2019 #5
lapfog_1 May 2019 #8
babylonsister May 2019 #13
BannonsLiver May 2019 #6
Stuart G May 2019 #3
llmart May 2019 #7
StarfishSaver May 2019 #4
Blue_Tires May 2019 #9
muriel_volestrangler May 2019 #10
TheBlackAdder May 2019 #11
sarabelle May 2019 #12
emmaverybo May 2019 #14
Fiendish Thingy May 2019 #15
Fiendish Thingy May 2019 #16
kennetha May 2019 #17
uponit7771 May 2019 #18
coti May 2019 #19
BootinUp May 2019 #20

Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Thu May 30, 2019, 11:21 AM

1. I finding myself agreeing with Frum lately.

And I don’t think it’s my thinking that has changed.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Thu May 30, 2019, 11:23 AM

2. Frum is not our friend.

former speech writer for George W Bush... the forth worst President in our history

1. Trump
2. Nixon
3. Reagan
4. W

(my list)

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Response to lapfog_1 (Reply #2)

Thu May 30, 2019, 11:27 AM

5. That doesn't mean he's not right about this.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #5)

Thu May 30, 2019, 11:29 AM

8. we should be wary of his motive here

that's all...

do not accept it as fact that starting impeachment hearings is bad for Democrats.

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Response to lapfog_1 (Reply #8)

Thu May 30, 2019, 12:00 PM

13. I think Frum is as disgusted as we are with this admin. His

articles indicate that.

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Response to lapfog_1 (Reply #2)

Thu May 30, 2019, 11:27 AM

6. Nobody's looking for a friend

They’re looking for perspective even if it might challenge their own.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Thu May 30, 2019, 11:24 AM

3. "But wise action is better than urgent action, and the best decision is one that leads to success."

Last sentence of the above post, says it all...

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Response to Stuart G (Reply #3)

Thu May 30, 2019, 11:28 AM

7. Nancy said something similar in her response to Mueller's briefing.

Something about she wants whatever they choose to do to bring "results". That told me a lot about her thinking.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Thu May 30, 2019, 11:26 AM

4. I don't often agree with Frum, but he's dead right on this

I've been saying the same thing for weeks.

Don't consolidate the battle on one front that Trump can more easily zero in on and fight as one identifiable enemy on his own terms. Keep him swatting at everything coming at him from different directions

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Thu May 30, 2019, 11:34 AM

9. How many more facts do we need to uncover when the case could be made today?

You know what's REALLY going to backfire? If we lose the house and the presidential election in 2020 and only then try to get serious about impeachment...

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Thu May 30, 2019, 11:39 AM

10. I don't think waiting until a 2nd term to impeach would work

The change in Senate balance won't be that great - you'd still need almost a third of Republicans to vote against Trump, even in the best realistic case. And they'd make hay of "why didn't you do this earlier? It's just a desperation move".

I can see the point about not having it dominate the general election question - you don't want the candidate to be covered just as "I'm for impeachment", and then when the Senate refuses to convict, for the media to then say "well, what's this candidate for, then?". But against that, it will put Trump's failings in the news, night after night.

I think that if run well, they can make the discovery of facts the bulk of the impeachment process - but with the obvious justification of why they're doing it.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Thu May 30, 2019, 11:41 AM

11. Dear Mr. Frum, Fuck ya'll! Boomshanka, TBA

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Thu May 30, 2019, 11:43 AM

12. I agree with From, strangely. He makes a good point. Maybe the "threat" of impeachment is enough.

 

At least for right now, the threat of impeachment seems to keep Trump and his administration off balance. But the Democrats can't give up on holding hearings and exposing more and more information and evidence. That may be all it will take to defeat Trump AND most of the GOP in 2020. The longer the threat goes on, the longer the GOP enablers will be in the public eye as defenders of the worst President in our history. As each new piece of evidence sweeps out, his GOP defenders will have to defend him daily, reminding voters that they are as bad as he is and maybe worse. Lindsey Graham's reputation is sullied forever, no matter if his supporters in SC re-elect him. His legacy will be written in the annals of Trumpism.

This damn situation is so complex all things make sense and nothing makes sense. I want to take down as many GOP in Congress as possible and maybe a slow revelation of the underlying information of the Mueller report may be just the way to do it?

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Thu May 30, 2019, 12:02 PM

14. Makes a lot of sense.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Thu May 30, 2019, 12:11 PM

15. Frum joins the cowardly defeatists- it's not either or, it's both and

Congress can open an impeachment inquiry, and focus on uncovering all of Trump’s wrongs, and Dem candidates can still campaign on bread and butter issues. Remember, most of the candidates have called for opening an impeachment inquiry.

Frum assumes facts not in evidence; he implies that, because the MSM will craft a narrative narrowly focused on “removal or not?”, and assumes the Dems can’t walk/chew gum/legislate/defend the Constitution at the same time.

Not opening an impeachment inquiry is a cynical, fear based, political miscalculation, that sends the message “what Trump has done is not bad enough to consider removing him from office- it’s not that important”.

If thousands can lay down their lives to protect the Constitution, the Dems must find the courage to take a principled stand and hold Trump accountable using all the powers the Constitution provides.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Thu May 30, 2019, 12:15 PM

16. Yeah, let's keep our powder dry until Trump is reelcted

And watch more judges get rammed through, Barr puts on show trials for the intelligence “enemies”, as the Constitution is dismantled.

Fuck you, Frum.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Thu May 30, 2019, 12:30 PM

17. Impeach a president who has just been re-elected?

Yeah right, that’s a brilliant idea!

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Thu May 30, 2019, 12:43 PM

18. Frum is conflating Vote with investigations ... Vote - NOT NOW ... investigations - YES !!

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Thu May 30, 2019, 12:49 PM

19. This is definitely one of the better points to be made by the anti-impeachers, but the conclusion is

still wrong. This still takes a- misguided- political approach to what is ultimately a question of the law and defending the fundamental principles of our democracy. Impeaching Trump is no more an elective than whether we should have fought back against Japan after Pearl Harbor.

Our democracy is under ATTACK by Trump and Russia. Trump fully intends to turn the federal government into an autocracy, OWNED by him, to whatever extent he can. We can't wait for him to have success with that and then try to respond. We have to do whatever we can to stop him right now.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Thu May 30, 2019, 01:17 PM

20. Sound logic by Frum. Nt

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