Impeaching on Mueller obstruction findings ALONE ship has probably sailed?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

As time passes, it strikes me that the real issue is what to impeach trump for.

It is seeming more obvious to me that unless all we are waiting on is the underlying evidence and unredacted report, then impeaching just based only on Mueller outlined obstruction might be off the table?

Why? Because Republicans made it perfectly clear, in unison at the outset, that it was no big deal. And we didn't, in unison, declare it WAS enough. Especially at the moment when people were watching and had been waiting for Mueller's non partisan conclusion.

Despite 450+ former prosecutor's letter saying: special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s report “describes several acts that satisfy all of the elements for an obstruction charge".

In addition, words expressed by our Speaker such as that we are waiting on a "compelling case" and an "ironclad" case, can imply that Impeachment based on Mueller obstruction findings IS NOT compelling nor ironclad.

So where does that leave us? Finding more to impeach for. It leaves us waiting for courts, documents, witness subpoenas to be honored to see if we can pull together more crap against this monster running, no ruining, our country.



https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-prosecutors-trump-obstruction-20190506-story.html

[JustAnotherGen]

1. More obstruction to come

More is on the way -much like McGhan - there will be lots obstruction right out in the open.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

3. Do you mean their defying of subpoenas - witnesses

and documents? Defying court orders? Lump that with Mueller obstruction findings? I did hear that when a court orders trump admin to deliver something and they ignore...that will be a tipping point for more to speak out - Democrats that is.

[spanone]

2. meanwhile barr is investigating the investigators and whatever they find will be 'compelling'....

and 'ironclad'.

whether it is or not.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

4. We have always prided ourselves in being independent

thinkers and shunned the idea of lockstep, unified messaging like repukes. But in this case, I wish we were. It's so damn important to stop him somehow and how the public who are in info overload mode perceives things means everything. It's like you have a thirty second window to create an impression. Then people move on.

[FBaggins]

5. At least one part of the strategy does have that effect.

By insisting on the underlying investigation documents and claiming that they’re trying to hide something by not releasing the ... we are tacitly admitting that the released report is insufficient to support an impeachment. That the impeachable stuff is hidden (which also implies that Mueller is in on the deception).

[Laura PourMeADrink]

6. Perhaps they aren't smart enough to take that as their

mantra. I think delay too affects the same perception. That's the problem when you have someone like trump, it's a moving target. You never know what the crime will be around the next corner. He probably knows that. With this analogy anyway. They effectively slowed the train down and put obstacles in the way for us to get further quickly. (i.e. ignored subpoenas).

And there is a logical window of opportunity. Ending once the campaign is in serious full swing ? Strikes me people would REALLY think we we're being political at that point.

[pnwmom]

7. We don't ever have to VOTE on actual articles if it turns out there isn't enough to support them.

But if we begin proceedings, we will have access to documents that are being denied to us now and we can bring them to the public in committee hearings.

And if we don't even try to impeach, Trump will use that against us, saying in the election that even the D's knew it was a witchhunt, and that's why we didn't impeach.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

8. Yes. So you are saying we start and then hope

we get more evidence to add on to obstruction? Like tax evasion, insurance fraud, etc.?

[pnwmom]

9. What are the odds? 99%? AND ALSO, we get many more eyes glued to the TV

learning about what's in the Mueller report for the first time. Under the heading of impeachment proceedings, the contents will get much more attention than they're getting now.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

12. Let's do it!

[kentuck]

10. There are a lot more charges than what Mueller came up ...

...although the obstruction of justice is pretty damning.

The emoluments violations and the abuse of power are very serious charges. As is the possible (likely) money-laundering charges waiting to be further exposed.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

11. I agree! But thought that was the issue, waiting to

Pull all that together. That it may take a long time? I know we don't want to announce intentions for sure but would be nice to know that we are going to impeach for obstruction plus a, b & c when those are ready. I truly understand what a bind they are in..it's not like you can say...we know trump committed worst crimes but we can't prove it yet.

Heard someone point out that hearings seem unfocused and that the general public doesn't know what they are investigating .