Everybody on the Left wants Trump impeached

[lunatica]

What I’ve noticed is that where the disagreements happen is on strategy. On timing, political expediency, and possible outcomes and the knowledge that the Senate won’t do the right thing. In my book that’s a plus. We really are united on the Left.

The fact is, the question of whether an impeachment is warranted is only a political argument because everyone agrees he is a criminal. Even people who love him don’t say he’s innocent when they’re asked a direct question.

The only person screaming his innocence is Trump, and he has to twist every fact into a Gordian pretzel knot to do it.

[ProudLib72]

1. Well, we need someone to stand up, take a sword, and cut that Gordian pretzel knot

Who's going to do it?

[lunatica]

3. If the message can be pushed in the direction

That non impeachment will be all negative as opposed to a yes impeachment being partially positive then a tipping point might happen.

The important thing to do is to put on such a big show in Congressional hearings that everyone will watch, because the hearings would be the biggest reality show ever. Such an interest by the public would be quite evident if the Democrats would force people to testify in open hearings. They should call a few people’s bluff regarding the subpoenas and arrest them. The certainty that they would be arrested would convince many of the rest of Trump’s staff to stop resisting.

Two things would happen. Trump would tweeter storm his insanity and that in itself would compel his base to watch the hearings. Democrats, of course wouldn’t miss such hearings.

Then, based on the testimony impeachment proceedings would start.

This is what I think anyway.

[ProudLib72]

12. Yes, we need open hearings

The problem is that, without the threat of impeachment behind them, will anyone watch? I'm willing to bet that the majority still believe that Mueller fully exonerated the Rump. That's where we stand. We don't have control of the narrative, so it's difficult to convince people of the truth. We also have to scream over the 24/7 hate radio and TV. RWNJs have built a massive infrastructure for distributing their propaganda. We simply cannot compete. It's going to be tough!

[Thomas Hurt]

2. I want him impeached because I want all those witnesses and evidence to be aired out in public.

If you want him in jail your chances of seeing him in jail after impeachment are slim, cuz Pence will just pardon him.

Well unless Pence is impeached as well, but I not heard one serious explanation of how Pence has done anything impeachable.

If we get out the vote, make Trump and Pence one term losers, then the both of them are exposed to indictment and prison time.

None of them are easy, none of them are really satisfying because none of them are a sure thing.

Pelosi seems to be shooting for as near a sure thing as she and the House can prove. If they can get to the info.

[lunatica]

4. Personally I'm willing to wait until he's no longer President

to see him tried for all kinds of crimes by the NY State Judiciary. Pence’s pardon would not make much difference either way. It would go into the history books and that’s it. And Pence would be hobbled by the Democratic House. At best he would be President for a little over one year. And he has no adoring base other than Evangelicals.

[Nuggets]

9. Yup

I want him in prison. That won’t happen if we impeach too soon. There are still months after the election where Trump is protected by the presidency.


There’s a reason Trump was trying to goad Pelosi into starting impeachment hearings. And I suspect why some Republicans suddenly are wanting impeachment.

[stillcool]

5. good point...

the problem for me has always been the end result. There is no guarantee any which way, but I'm beginning to think impeachment will be sooner rather than later. There is no justice system to rely on, so no matter how many crimes are uncovered, who would prosecute? What I hope for now, is that people start doing some serious leaking. Surely someone will publish it.

[lunatica]

6. Yes, serious leaking would help tilt the scales

But if the House could actually compel people to go testify in their hearings that could also tip the scales. So far people are hiding behind Trump’s orders to refuse to testify. The House has sent out Subpoenas and I hope they back them up with legal actions if the Trump people still refuse to show up. This impasse may be necessary in order to do it by the book, but they”re taking their sweet time about it. They’ve already had 5 months to get this started, and even though they started calling for hearing right away, they’re still stuck on not moving forward past the subpoena stage.

If it’s because of Barr that they can’t seem to move forward then they should do something about Barr. Impeach him. Leave Trump exposed.

Impeaching Barr will send an unmistakable message that the House is serious and will go to whatever lengths they have to in order to do their oversight job and to fulfill their oath of office. Trump’s staff might figure out it’s against their own self interest to ignore the subpoenas.

[kentuck]

7. Woud it be better if there was no pressure from the left?

And the entire Democratic Party believed there should be no impeachment??

A question Democrats should entertain?

[lunatica]

8. Am I right to assume that's a rhetorical question?

The way things have played out I think it’s impossible Not to think of impeachment. It really isn’t anywhere near being like Clinton’s impeachment. That impeachment was a 100% political. Clinton didn’t break any laws, and he didn’t do something that wasn’t done by many other male Congressmen, even as they impeached him. That was a completely unnecessary impeachment. On the other hand Trump is a criminal. The only thing left in his case is to formally prove him guilty.

[Nuggets]

10. How do you think it will play out for Dems

if they impeach and the Senate acquits or Pence pardons letting Trump to get away with his crimes?


The same people screaming for impeachment immediately would be berating them for impeaching too soon.

[lunatica]

11. Very true

I think Nancy Pelosi’s strategy is to wait until there are enough hearings showing his undeniable guilt. At that point it may not even be necessary to impeach, although it will be under consideration. But also at that point, most Americans, regardless of party may be screaming for impeachment.

That’s just what I’m saying. All Democrats agree that Trump is a criminal and everyone wants him impeached, but the thing we aren’t agreeing on is when.

[lunatica]

13. .

[Xolodno]

14. And that's part of the problem....

...its just the left. We need at minimum the center and with luck, some of the right.

We start impeachment now, we are trying to build a case.

Go through all the hearings, due process, etc. Then we already have a case, just validating the independent counsel and Congressional Findings.

On top of that, we could start impeachment proceedings tomorrow, and it probably won't be ready for the Senate until the election.

I see impeachment as his removal in the second term, if he gets it. But we can get rid of him sooner via the election.

And this is just speculation on my part, think he will resign during the primaries. Why? Because he needs a pardon, even though it doesn't immunize him from State Crimes, it does take wind out of those sails.

[lunatica]

15. There are so many moveable parts right now

that no move is guaranteed to bring the desired result of an impeachment. Everyone is trying to gain an advantage right now. The problem is that each side is valid. Even here in DU we are debating, heatedly at times, whether it’s better to do it now or later. Meantime there is a lot of despair and handwringing which adds a great deal of tension.

I think we simply can’t take anything for granted. By all counts we feel pretty confident that we van vote him out in 2020. We already took the step that stopped the country from sliding into a dictatorship with the blue wave which thankfully took half of the Congressional power away from the Republicans and Trump. But we’ve learned not to take such things for granted.

I think hearings will get the attention of the moderates for various reasons. The nature of the crimes being one, and the nature of the criminal with his endless, unabridged, no filter tweets is too compelling to ignore. Anyone who wants to will be able to watch and just as important the daily news will have to talk about it. Fox will lose their transfixed viewers because the viewers will be drawn away. There would be nowhere to go that they could avoid the news.

It might actually happen that for the first time in decades all Americans will be watching the same thing, instead of the separate realities on the air. Everyone will be getting the same facts. I think this will happen whether the hearings are held now or later. But the hearings do need to be held.

[imanamerican63]

16. Not me!

Said Trump!

[lunatica]

17. Well he's not on the Left!