So now we learn of Pelosi's clever tactic

[dixiegrrrrl]

Last edited Sat Jun 8, 2019, 12:44 PM - Edit history (1)

Remember that Pelosi has been referring to trump being "unwell" am expressing concern for his health and even mentioned the 25th Amendment?
It's an idea that is spreading.

May 31, USA today opinion column: Donald Trump should be removed from the office of the president because he is psychologically unfit to uphold his constitutional duties.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/05/31/donald-trump-should-impeached-because-his-bad-mental-health-column/1260781001/

There's a Twitter account called Duty To Warn, said to be "Mental health professionals warning Trump is psychologically unfit." who are making a documentary called "Unfit", out of concerns what a mentally ill President can do.

A podcast a week ago, The Leader Of The Free World Has Pre-Dementia Goes deeper into the idea.
http://josephnoelwalker.com/john-gartner/

Joy Reid pointed out the strange signature of Trump re: D-Day Declaration:





3 weeks ago Trump said we were going to the Moon and he had 1.6 billion in the budget for it.
Today he says it is a bad idea, we should to go to Mars, which is part of the Moon.

All his wacky statements are spoken by someone masquerading as the Leader of the Free World.
It matters.

[empedocles]

1. A war on many fronts. Thank you Speaker.

New 'Seige' book by Wolff, apparently has much 'big skepticism on trump' on rw pol side.

Of course, there will be much cover smoke against the "Seige'', as happened with Fire, and to a fair degree against 'Steele Dossier'.
Both have survived fairly well, Steel very well actually.

[Scurrilous]

2. ...

Trump inks his name at the TOP of D-Day remembrance proclamation while the other 15 world leaders sign at the bottom

<snip>

"President Donald Trump's signature on a 16-nation proclamation to mark the 75th anniversary of the D-Day landings in 1944 stood out from the others this week because he was the only leader to ink his name at the top.

The other 15 signed at the bottom on Wednesday, as is customary."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7117393/Trump-signed-D-Day-proclamation-15-leaders-inked-bottom.html

[real Cannabis calm]

85. Is this a symptom of Narcissistic Personality Disorder, coupled w/ Bipolar Disorder?

[Scurrilous]

87. I'm going with the former.

[UTUSN]

3. K&R

[elleng]

4. President Donald Trump's poor mental health is grounds for impeachment.

USA TODAY-May 31, 2019
Donald Trump should be removed from the office of the president because he .... Jamie Raskin of Maryland said, “Most of us on the Judiciary Committee ... Citing Lee's mental health analysis of the Mueller report, Raskin said, >>>

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/05/31/donald-trump-should-impeached-because-his-bad-mental-health-column/1260781001/

[dixiegrrrrl]

9. That article listed objective measurable behaviors that are concerning

Most recently, "Dangerous Case" editor Bandy Lee and a group of colleagues issued a mental health analysis of the Mueller report in which they concluded
“there is compelling medical evidence” that Trump “lacks the capacity to serve as president.”
He manifests “impaired capacity to make responsible decisions free of impulsivity,” as well as an "inability to consider consequences before taking action, detachment from reality, paranoid reactions, creation of dangerous conditions, and cognitive and memory difficulties."

[elleng]

10. Yes, and I'm pleased my House Rep supports efforts to publicize them.

[Liberty Belle]

44. Only high crimes and misdemeanors are grounds for impeachment. The 25th amendment is the remedy

for a mentally impaired president, per our Constitution. There are grounds for that but only if his cabinet and Congress agree, which is a tough mountain to climb. Maybe if he gets crazy enough to start blabbing out Republican secrets or otherwise harming the GOP leadership they will consider this, but that's probably the only way.

[superpatriotman]

5. Wish I could ascribe these 3-d chess strategies to Pelosi

But I cannot.

[Skittles]

8. yup

[George II]

17. You could though, but......................

[Duppers]

47. Same here.

[certainot]

83. another couple reasons she might be wary - the left ignores talk radio so dem leadership and

media end up calculating political tides as if it doesn't exist. if the 'left' ended its collective ignorance of rw radio the leadership in dem party and progressive orgs, who live in cities, would realize most of trump's base power comes out of limbaugh's kremlin-inspired ass. instead, our 'leaders' give that base way too much credit just because of that giant monopoly propaganda buzz.

and pelosi is 3rd in line after pence and he's up to his neck in the same shit. pelosi feels she has to hold back because she knows rw media, with kremlin inspired limbaugh as point man, will make a huge point about her doing this to complete the obama/clinton/soros 'deep state coup' bullshit we let those 1500 radio stations blast the country with.

if dems want their reps to go full out stop ignoring the right's most important weapon the last 30 years.

[Turin_C3PO]

86. Talk radio is a HUGE problem for us.

Many people have Limbaugh on as background noise and absorb the propaganda without even realizing it. I’m not sure what we can do to stop it?

[certainot]

88. with a little assist from AI the ad industry will destroy it. artificial intelligence makes it

really easy and cheap now to transcribe/digitize talk radio so advertisers can be easily listed and associated with content with little listening needed, as described at republiconradio.org, using sonix.ai for $5/hr for instance.

it wouldn't take much activism before the ad industry would have to start asking clients if they want to be advertising on rw radio (instead of bundling and rotating them onto it without their control). they'd lose half their radio advertisers otherwise

or if someone started developing software to automate the process it would not take long to get ad industry's attention. a lot of stations would have to drop rw radio for other programming.


also protesting the

88 universities that support 260 limbaugh stations by broadcasting sports on them as they hate women, deny global warming, and support trump. they might as well be kkk stations and those schools need to be asked what they would do if those stations were bought by the KKK.

Look at all the states that recently passed/pushing anti abortion bullshit....

The number after the state is the number of Limbaugh radio stations in those states endorsed by the listed universities. The $ figure after the state is the value of Republican propaganda those universities endorse in their states if a 1 hour infomercial or advertisement on a radio station cost $1000 x 15 hrs/day x 5 days = $75,000/WEEK. FREE!

ALABAMA 8 $600,000 Auburn 3, Alabama 2, Southern Alabama 2, Troy 1
ARKANSAS 3 $225,000 Arkansas 3
GEORGIA 14 $1,050,000 Georgia 7, Georgia Tech 5, Georgia Southern 2
KENTUCKY 3 $225,000 Louisville 2, Kentucky 1
MISSISSIPPI 6 $450,000 Mississippi St. 3, Mississippi 2, Southern Miss 1
MISSOURI 6 $450,000 Missouri 6
OHIO 10 $750,000 Ohio St. 6, Toledo 1, Dayton 1, Bowling Green 1, Xavier 1
UTAH 1 $75,000 Utah St. 1

8 states, 51 stations = $3,375,000/WEEK to help sell anti-abortion, anti-choice misogyny, patriarchy, and authoritarianism.

(Total of 260 Limbaugh stations endorsed by 88 universities x $75,000 = $19,125,000/WEEK, or about $5BIL/year. Full list at republiconradio.org)

[USALiberal]

89. So you know more than her, please update us! Nt

[DURHAM D]

6. John Helliman said today on Nicole Wallace show

that Trump has dementia.

[dixiegrrrrl]

11. ty for that info.

gonna be real interesting to see how this issue develops and builds.

[BigmanPigman]

18. It is obvious that he can NOT handle all the stress, despite what

he says (he supposedly thrives on chaos). His shakes are a result of the ongoing stress of the job. That happened to me for a while and people thought I was an alcoholic when it was plain old, heavy duty and constant stress.

Unfortunately it is almost impossible to remove him from office using the 25th Amend.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/the-madness-of-donald-trump-197853/

[underpants]

7. He had to put his name at the top of the document?

God, what an asshole.

[csziggy]

12. Hey, at least he sigend it - remember the times he forgot to sign at ceremonies for signing?

Mar. 2017

Oct 2018

[dixiegrrrrl]

20. I noticed he does not pick his feet up, he slides his steps

in the bottom vid. when he walks back to sign the bill.

[csziggy]

21. You're right! I wonder if he can't bend his knees or is too weak to pick up his feet?

Or maybe it's a balance problem so he wants contact with the floor at all times. That is weird!

[AllyCat]

43. People with dementia often slide their feet because parts of the brain are no

longer working to coordinate gait. https://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/17/health/research/signs-of-cognitive-decline-and-alzheimers-are-seen-in-gait.html I realize this is a 7 year old article, but it is a common finding and aids diagnosis of memory loss and dementia.

[dixiegrrrrl]

48. This:

Thinking skills like memory, planning activities or processing information decline almost in parallel with the ability to walk fluidly, these studies show.

In other words, the more trouble people have walking, the more trouble they have thinking.

Huge caveat, tho.....older people also develop aches and pains in their feet and that alone can change your gait.
But not change it to sliding, as a rule.

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

75. Thanks for the caveat ...

Before this winter never had a limp...now... oh yea...just got diagnosed with moderate to severe osteoarthritis in hip, knee and lower back. 66 and going strong... first gear is a little grindy after that rolling pretty.

So yea, age related sure...can understand but....

[dixiegrrrrl]

76. Yeah...the but....

The 25th Amendment is all about "fitness for duties"

By any reasonable definition, he is not fit. And it avoids any need for a label. Doesn't matter if he is just 10 years old emotionally, or demented, or criminal, his behaviors and speech show "not fit".

the public, and some members of the gov't, are going thru the first stages of identifying the problem. That stage is
" omg, he's doing this and saying that and lies all the damn time"
PLUS trying to figure out why....crazy? drugs? dementia? meaness?

The 25th does not need a cause, it focuses on What is happening, not Why.
All those documented inane behaviors show he is unfit for office.

History tells us Nixon was re-elected before they got rid of him. Under a lawful election, trump won't be.

[underpants]

23. Bone spurs n/t

[shanny]

27. Definitely not that.

[magicarpet]

70. Brain Spurs..... ?

Syphilis ?

Gonorrhea ?

Brain Lice ?

[JustAnotherGen]

79. I'm going with Syphilis

45 is bonkers

[Eyeball_Kid]

29. I didn't see any anomalies of note with regard to walking.

But the signature at the top of the joint declaration is troubling indeed. One of the posters recalled that in a Draw-a-clock test, subjects who do things like write the numbers of the clock outside the circle have cognition difficulties. I do see a similarity between those test factors and Trumpy's signing of the letter as he did. It looks like he didn't ignore protocol. It looks like he has no idea what the protocol is, just as some folks with dementia don't know that the protocol for drawing a clock is to place the numbers inside the clock circle.

[radical noodle]

37. On the other hand

his narcissism may well lead him to sign at the top as he thinks he's most important. Just a guess.

[dixiegrrrrl]

65. either way, it is a symptom of mental problems.

win/win

[Hekate]

38. He often bends his upper body and head far forward; he walks like an old man...

He appears to have some balance problems, as he grips Melania's hand and clutches the bannister of the airplane ramp.

It's not 100% of the time -- just most of the tiime

[dixiegrrrrl]

63. Now I am looking at the golf cart ride at the G-20 more closely.

Hmmm.

[StarfishSaver]

13. When a relative was struggling with cognitive issues, one of the signs the speech therapist showed

me was how he signed his name and wrote other things on the wrong parts of the paper. For example, when shown a circle and asked to place the numbers on it as they would appear on the face of the clock, he put the numbers on other parts of the page and not on the circle.

That's what this looks like to me.

[dixiegrrrrl]

19. Huge problem is it is hard to tell any dementia symptoms

from his normal assholery.

Did he sign at the top because he is an egomanical asshole, or is it a symptom?

We've got a real life blind man and the elephant conundrum here.

[underpants]

24. I think this is like him shoving people out of his way at the first NATO meeting

So he could get in front.

[StarfishSaver]

26. Funny you say that - I was just having that same conversation with someone

And we agreed that it's impossible to know whether he signed at the top because he's a narcissistic jerk who thinks his name should be separate or because he's so cognitively impaired that he can't tell the difference - or a combination of both.

[underpants]

22. Yes that was a test they gave a relative after a stroke

Good point.

[sop]

28. Trump's signature resembles Gamma brainwaves of a highly agitated individual

[underpants]

30. and a failed lie detector test

[dixiegrrrrl]

71. Heh heh. n/t

[Wednesdays]

74. A seismic graph of an earthquake!

[Eyeball_Kid]

31. Do you think he's mimicking the look of gamma brainwaves on an EEG?

Otherwise, it's a random association.

[sop]

34. I think he's a liar who agitatedly blurts out any random thing that pops into his brain

[Ms. Toad]

45. I concur - as to the reason.

Where he signed has nothing to do with dementia - it has to do with needing to be the center of attention.

[smirkymonkey]

82. No kidding.

He is the biggest jackass on the planet, hands down.

[RKP5637]

14. Seesaw tRump! Incapable of remembering what he said earlier, now reverses it. Woeful man, he is.

Psychologically unfit for office.

[Gore1FL]

15. I know the moon thing was funny.

But I rank it right up there with Obama saying 57 states.

There are legitimate examples of his stupidity, his psychology, his dementia, etc. We don't really need to spin very-poor wording into an example of those things. We've got plenty.

[MFM008]

55. one error from Obama

And 1000 from maggot.
NO comparison.

[Gore1FL]

56. Fair. But why not concentrate on the more egregious stuff of trump--there is plenty.

Going for petty shit that we know better about makes us a little to republicanesque for my taste.

Trump deserves criticism. Let's criticize him on that and not fabricate shit like they do.

[trev]

25. I have been recommending on here for some time now

that we should include Trump's mental state as an indicator of unfitness for office.

Glad to see the idea catching on.

[sprinkleeninow]

32. "...someone masquerading as..."

So very on point. 😫

[Eyeball_Kid]

33. I'll back away from this kind of speculation.

Usually, these ideas hold a lot of entertainment value. But I have to say that, since the 2016 campaign, a lot of people had been saying that Trumpy is unfit for office. HRC said that many times while campaigning. So did other Dem leaders, before and after the election. I think that Pelosi's comments were part of a timeline of statements made about Trumpy, with more or fewer degrees of accuracy, by a long line of adversaries. Each time I heard them, I privately applauded them as callings for truth. I still do. But I don't think that Pelosi is/was at the vanguard of this large group of leaders. Rather, she's been bringing up the rear.

[Hekate]

35. Mme Speaker is not given to saying random things, nor do her meetings typically leak...

I think she's floating ideas and getting them out in public for a reason.

[StarfishSaver]

39. +1

[Laura PourMeADrink]

42. So one day she wants to see him in prison and

Thinks he'll be around to run against in 2020 and then the next she's floating an idea that he's crazy?

[Hekate]

53. No, FIRST she floated the idea he was crazy, which allowed his mental state to be discussed on TV...

...and in the editorial pages damn near every day since then.

Oh, Mme Speaker was sweet about it. She simply came out of one of his tantrum-filled meetings and said she was "praying for the country" and "praying for him," and that she "sincerely hoped members of his family or members of his staff would hold an intervention" for the President.

How's that for making it very explicitly very public? And she was PITYING of his condition. How's that for belittling the bully who hates strong women?

Of course she's being nagged to start impeachment proceedings, but consider the additional context: that as far as we know he can't be criminally indicted while still in office, which gives him all the more incentive to lie, cheat, and steal his way into a second term. Plus the statute of limitations runs out on some crimes the meanwhile.

So in a recent private meeting she said, not that she would not impeach him in the end, but that she "would rather see him in prison than impeached."

How's that for making it very explicit and very public that she knows he has committed crimes and is a criminal? Thus making it certain to be discussed by the punditry.

And the mental deterioration conversation is still really out there.

[StarfishSaver]

61. +1

[dixiegrrrrl]

66. It was the serious threat of impeachment that took Nixon down.

His crimes related to coverups and et al were the reasons for impeachment.
I don't remember criminal charges being part of the discussion at the time, but I could be wrong.

[madaboutharry]

36. I think there are people who know more than they

are letting on to the public.

Today, in response to Trump’s attack on Speaker Pelosi and also on Bette Midler, Former Sen. Barbara Boxer said Trump is a sick man. She said it with a very serious voice clearly meaning that he is mentally unwell.

[sop]

46. I agree, people in government knew something was seriously off with Trump before 2016

The usually circumspect Obama kept saying during the 2016 campaign, usually with a very serious look on his face, that Trump was "unfit for office." He likely had access to intelligence detailing Trump's insane behaviour, and possible treason, but didn't say anything. Hillary also knew Trump was unfit, and said so throughout the campaign, but no one took her seriously.

Trump's primary opponents knew, and the ones in-the-know said so. McCain, Graham, Romney, Ryan and others knew. Comey was well-informed about the FBI investigation into the Steele dossier, but he kept quiet. There were FISA warrants on Trump's people. Everyone obviously knew Flynn was involved with the Russians. Jeez, evidence was everywhere, but it wasn't made public since it would reveal classified intelligence.

[pazzyanne]

59. Remember when Hillary tried to tell us that tRump was unfit to be president?

Many of us believed her, and some of us had followed tRump and his father's antics from the late 1960s to present time. Then we have the trumpers who were buying and swallowing what the carnival barker was selling. tRump is definitely "unwell" and it is getting worse. However the longer tRump remains in office, shadow president Stephen Miller can continue to create and distribute his hateful evil. Republicans are very aware of this and are refusing to do anything to save this nation. A gigantic housecleaning is need at the White House.

[MontanaMama]

40. If MF45 is mentally unwell,

and I submit that this is likely...then that is grounds for impeachment. I get that Madame Speaker would like him in prison rather than impeaching him, but if he has committed crimes that warrant a prison sentence then that too is grounds for impeachment.

[StarfishSaver]

60. Mental unfitness isn't grounds for impeachment

He can only be impeached for a high crime or misdemeanor.

His mental instability can be shown to be a reason for his crimes and misdeeds, but it isn't in and of itself a basis for impeachment.

That's covered by the 25th Amendment, but we know how much chance there is that THAT will be invoked.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

41. So maybe he signed on top because there was not

much room left on the bottom? Just throwing that out as another option... somewhere between he's crazy and he's an extreme narcissist.

[dixiegrrrrl]

68. extreme narcissist IS "crazy" that's the whole point.

He does crazy things, he acts crazy, he says things that are not based on reality, which fortunately is preserved in print or video.

Doesn't matter, really, the source of crazy, altho dementia is easier for most people to relate to.

He can have more than one diagnosis. Dementia is usually a medical diagnosis, extreme narcissism is a MH diagnosis.
( I could rant for days on why we split a whole human being into "Parts" and then treat each part by different disciplines)

In his case, his narcissism is so overwhelming that he would never accept treatment for it, or for dementia,
since he refuses to admit to any problems.
When we attribute all of his weird symptoms to just narcissism, it means not looking at other reasons for some of them, like various forms of dementia, or perhaps side effects of meds/drugs he is taking ( because he lies so often about about his health...and his height...and his weight...and his meds).

He is a walking textbook of mental disturbance.

[Cha]

49. It sure as hell does matter..

it's Everything!!

Is this for real.. ? 'Cause I've been taking a Big Ol trump BREAK..

3 weeks ago Trump said we were going to the Moon and he had 1.6 billion in the budget for it.
Today he says it is a bad idea, we should to go to Mars, which is part of the Moon.

All his wacky statements are spoken by someone masquerading as the Leader of the Free World.
It matters.

Thanks, dixiegrrrrl

[Nevermypresident]

50. Duty to Warn regarding trump actually began in 2017, not long after his inauguration.

Headed by a Baltimore psychologist, John Gartner.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/politics/bs-md-gartner-duty-to-warn-20170918-story.html

[dixiegrrrrl]

69. Thank you!

I noticed on their site they were calling for impeachment based on mental health problems, so hopefully they have been
pointed to the 25th amendment.

Nonetheless, it is a conversation that is starting to take root.

I am sure Pence would support it in a heartbeat if he could get away with it.

[Grasswire2]

51. google "signature Hermann Goering" and you will see Trump's inspiration nt

[emmaverybo]

52. He is not sick. He is a bad and compromised person, not very bright, that tv culture and Russia,

with the help of a few other countries, enabled to take over our democracy. He is just a figure head. Getting rid of him will not begin to get rid of the threat we face to democracy.

[jberryhill]

54. What's "clever" about it?

The VP and cabinet are not going to remove him and Congress has no power to invoke the 25th Amendment.

So what?

What is accomplished by this “clever” idea of hinting at something no one is going to do.

[dixiegrrrrl]

72. Last question first..

Public opinion. More and more conversation is being generated about concerns for his MH. In an election cycle. Not all republicans are as nutz as trump's base.


"Congress has no power to invoke the 25th Amendment."

Actually.......

Section 4 of the 25th Amendment stipulates that a president who "is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office" can be removed from office. The vice president and either a majority of Cabinet members or members "of such other body as Congress may by law provide" need to communicate that wish in writing to the Senate president pro tempore and the Speaker of the House in order for the sitting vice president to become the acting president. However, if the president resists and deems himself capable of fulfilling his duties, the matter heads to Congress: A two-thirds vote in both the House and Senate within 21 days means the vice president remains the acting president; a lesser vote returns the powers to the president.

https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2017-02-10/10-things-you-didnt-know-about-the-25th-amendment

Pence most certainly has an agenda, and removing trump at the right time will reward Pence.

[jberryhill]

80. Yeah. The senate is not passing a law allowing congress to remove the president

You bolded a passage which, yes, says that Congress can pass a law designating such a body. There is, however, no such law and I would love to hear why you believe there will be one anytime soon.

Likewise, in the second passage you marked, the VP and cabinet must first act.

Neither of those things is happening and Pelosi has no ability, authority, or plan to make them happen.

There’s nothing clever happening here other than Pelosi continuing to confirm he will remain president.

[dugog55]

57. However, if he is diagnosed as having

mental problems, that will exonerate him from all his wrong doings and criminal activity. Any good lawyer could use this excuse to cover his actions for the last fifteen years. Then the bastard would get away with everything. I want to see him and his evil spawn all in prison jumpers.

[StarfishSaver]

62. Having "mental problems" isn't a defense to criminal liability

If that were the case, our prisons would be virtually empty.

In order to successfully iuse an insanity defense, a defendant has to prove that they meet the definition of legal insanity, i.e., that they didn't understand what they were doing, we're incapable of knowing right from wrong or acted on uncontrollable impulse, none of which I think Trump could claim. All of his behaviors indicate he knows very well the difference between right and wrong. He just doesn't care and thinks rules don't apply to him.

He's deeply mentally disturbed, but he's not criminally insane.

[Firestorm49]

58. I don't know WTF the Exalted Leader is smoking

but I want to get my hands on some. He’s out there somewhere.

Just kidding, of course.

[Nitram]

64. Kick the dotard out open his fat ass.

[gldstwmn]

67. Doesn't his cabinet have to be a part of it?

There's no one left that won't kowtow to him. This is even less likely than impeachment, IMO.

[dixiegrrrrl]

73. Per the 25th Amendment process:

The vice president and either a majority of Cabinet members or members "of such other body as Congress may by law provide" need to communicate that wish in writing to the Senate president pro tempore and the Speaker of the House in order for the sitting vice president to become the acting president.

that "sitting Vice-President" has an agenda, as we know.

Right now, it does not look likely. but, as Putin and RW politicals here try to increase their dictatorial plans, we are seeing
saner republicans speaking out against it.

Every single thing that has happened since the last election has been highly unlikely.

[gldstwmn]

77. So true. Thank you. He will have to be dragged

Out of the Oval kicking and screaming.

[dixiegrrrrl]

78. If we can get past all those bikers he is convinced will save him.

Not to mention "his" military.

He's trying to figure out how to make himself a king for life.That usually does not work out well in the end.

[jberryhill]

81. Why do you keep highlighting that part?

Last edited Sat Jun 8, 2019, 08:17 PM - Edit history (1)

There is no law appointing such a body. Congress does not have any such law pending, and if you think the Senate would even entertain such a thing. I would like to know why you think that.

It does not appear you understand those words you keep repeating.

And, yeah, the idea of creating an agency with power to remove the president, any president, including the next democratic president, is absurd.

Do you think the preznit is going to sign such a law? No. So it will have to be passed by a veto-proof majority. Explain how Pelosi gets a supermajority or Senators to do that? The same proportion, btw, required to convict in the event of impeachment.

[cannabis_flower]

84. Like Chauncey Gardiner...

Only evil