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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhy would I go anywhere they don't speak english?
Just had this memory of my sister, who was a champion archer, and was offered an all expense trip to Sweden for her and her husband from some archery company. That was her response, why go anywhere they dont speak English? Theyre from the heart of Trump country (Ohio) but are definitely not Trumpers; hes retired from the UAW and cant understand why any Union man would support Trump. But, it made me think, other than that they fit the profile of Trump-Humpers. I wonder how many of the dyed in the wool Trumpers have ever been out of this country (not counting military). Id bet very few. I wonder if thats ever been researched?
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Like, do they normally travel in order to talk to people?
And there are people who want to talk to them?
Might they want to go to have a look at what Sweden might look like?
Are they into outdoor activity of any kind?
Just weird.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,584 posts)it's taught in their schools. She could have communicated just fine as a tourist without having to utter or understand a single word of Swedish. Even so, it's kind of sad that so many people are so timid and narrow-minded that they don't travel and they don't even want to try to communicate with people who don't speak English, or even more importantly, to learn a foreign language themselves. Learning a language is good exercise for your brain even if you don't travel.
dawg day
(7,947 posts)and Trump voters--
https://www.indy100.com/article/passport-united-states-donald-trump-republican-rural-map-ownership-america-7436541
You need a passport, basically, to go to anywhere where most citizens speak another language. So we can assume that people who don't have and/or never had a passport haven't been to another country.
And they're apparently (correlation ain't causation, sure, but....) more likely to also be from places that went heavily for Trump.
captain queeg
(10,089 posts)I assume military people have a different kind of passport. Id guess some of those rural/poor states have a high percentage of people who joined up for whatever reason.
MineralMan
(146,254 posts)I traveled all over Europe and Turkey, with just my military ID, and orders, like leave orders. Never a problem. I don't know if it's still the same though.
Farmer-Rick
(10,135 posts)Sailors to get passports. Don't know if that applied to ship crew too. That's a lot of passports say for everyone on a carrier.
arthurgoodwin
(38 posts)"You need a passport, basically, to go to anywhere where most citizens speak another language."
This is a mistaken assumption. I've been to many countries outside of the USA (Norway, Denmark, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, United Kingdom, France, Spain, Italy, Greece, Turkey, Lebanon, Israel, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Thailand, Kenya, and Australia) and never once have held a passport. Most of these for just a few days at a time, but including a 3-month stretch in France, 4-months in Lebanon, and 2 months each in South Korea and Norway.
It's called military service and in my experience LOTS of Trump supporters have been in the military and overseas.
VMA131Marine
(4,135 posts)That is a dramatic increase from around 15% over the last 10 years or so and has mostly been driven by the requirement to have a passport to travel to Canada or Mexico.
Brawndo
(535 posts)Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)one thing that has opened my eyes and my mind the most in this life. I think that is also why city people tend to be more liberal as well. They are exposed to so many different cultures and types of people and learn to live with these people as neighbors, acquaintances and friends instead of fearing and loathing them out of ignorance.
Ohiogal
(31,907 posts)Travel is the best education. Open up your mind. See another country. Whats to fear?
I was lucky enough to visit Sweden, back in the mid 80s. Beautiful country, nice people.
I dont understand people who dont like to travel.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)customs, etc. I love trying new cuisine, listening to different music, trying anything novel that other cultures have to offer. I love the challenge of having to navigate my way through a different country, city or town and communicate with people who aren't American. There is something exciting about it to me. I am not intimidated by it at all.
moondust
(19,957 posts)Exactly.
Even some foreign language study can help some people escape their tribal xenophobic bubble.
comradebillyboy
(10,128 posts)we encountered spoke excellent English.
mainer
(12,017 posts)That seems to be the defining characteristic of Trump voters.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)If it isnt American then its undesirable, lowly, and inferior.
redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)ChazInAz
(2,558 posts)I was born in Hungary, and came here with my family in 1956 at the age of six. We lived in an immigrant neighborhood in Springfield, Illinois (It was nicknamed "The Cabbage Patch" due to the main crop in everyone's kitchen gardens!) Strangely, I have no memory of actually being taught English, apparently I did what thousands of immigrant children did and absorbed it by osmosis or something. I did pick up rags and snatches of other Slavic languages from my neighbors...and forgot my Hungarian. Over the years, I've tried to learn other languages with little success, something that has really disappointed me. I guess my "language learner" got burnt out as a kid!
A few years back, I finally returned to Eastern Europe and Budapest. Though I could no longer speak the language, I was happy to find that most everyone spoke English.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)could retain that. I was raised with one language and have mostly forgotten the 3 languages I studied in school for lack of use. But I've known a lot of people like you who absorbed several languages as children. Must be strange to come as adults to a single language-dominant culture and see how that manifests.
DFW
(54,275 posts)Last edited Sun Jun 16, 2019, 09:25 AM - Edit history (1)
If you think Hungarian is a Slavic language, then you definitely lost contact with it!
These days, many people in Budapest have learned English (not so much outside the city). When I first visited Hungary in 1982, they were still part of the Soviet Empire, and forced to learn Russian in school (which they hated). Their first foreign language of preference back then was German (still strong links to the Hapsburg Empire).
quickesst
(6,280 posts).... have taught English in their schools for decades. I know for a fact they were teaching English in Germany when I was stationed there and 71 72 and 73. I really doubt a language barrier would have posed a problem for her.
Ilsa
(61,690 posts)Or it was 15 years ago. I doubt that has changed.
quickesst
(6,280 posts)Learning English has been growing more popular in EU nations, with the share of young students studying English as a foreign language more than doubling from just 35% in 2000. Meanwhile, the share of young students studying French and German has remained below 15%. Governments (and parents) may have their eye on preparing students for a global economy in which English is seen as the dominant language.
In the U.S., by contrast, only 25% of elementary schools even offered foreign languages as of 2008, the latest data available.
While most European students are introduced to English in primary school, learning English is even more popular among those in upper secondary school (roughly equivalent to U.S. high school). More than nine-in-ten upper-secondary students (94%) in the EU learn English, compared with fewer than a quarter who learn French (24%), German (20%) or Spanish (18%).
In addition, the average European student studies more than one foreign language in school, unlike their U.S. counterparts. In fact, studying a second foreign language for at least one year is compulsory in more than 20 European nations. The U.S. has no similar national requirement.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/10/08/more-than-any-other-foreign-language-european-youths-learn-english/
This may apply to countries like Pakistan also.
Igel
(35,271 posts)If you don't see a reason to learn the language(s), if you don't use them once you've learned whatever of them you've learned, they fade. Americans see no reason to learn and retain the language(s), and very seldom get much of a chance to use them.
Don't know how many people overseas I've had tell me they studied English. Then admit they don't remember any, and put up with whatever I can speak of their language. Czech Republic, France, Slovakia, Poland, Russia. Even Helsinki.
Hang out with college educated people, stay in touristy areas, you find a lot of English. Wherever there's a reason to learn the language and use it, you get it retained. Get on the tram, get off at a random stop, go a few blocks to find someplace to eat where foreigners seldom (if ever) get to, and you find people who speak English like the kids in my 3rd year high-school Spanish class spoke Spanish a decade after graduating.
(As an aside, it was the same with Russian in formerly Comecon countries. They didn't learn English--Russian was the required language--but even then, in Czech Republic and Slovakia they'd rather my less fluent Czech than my then-fluent Russian. In Poland they were stuck with Russian or English.
quickesst
(6,280 posts).... Is elective in the United States, but required and more than 20 European countries. That language is usually English.
Snip
A popular stereotype of Americans traveling abroad is the tourist who is at a loss when it comes to coping with any language other than English. Fair or not, the fact is that while the U.S. does not have a national requirement for students to learn a foreign language in school, the typical European pupil must study multiple languages in the classroom before becoming a teen.
Studying a second foreign language for at least one year is compulsory in more than 20 European countries.
Although some countries mandate that students learn English as their foreign language, the portion of pupils studying it remains high across the board, even in countries without this rule. French and German were the next-most popular languages in most countries, with Spanish and Russian also widely taught as foreign languages in certain regions of the continent. The percentage of students learning some other language was below 5% in most countries.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/07/13/learning-a-foreign-language-a-must-in-europe-not-so-in-america/
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Last edited Sat Jun 15, 2019, 05:39 PM - Edit history (2)
can speak passable English and I always try to learn some basics in the language of the place I am visiting, so you always manage to get by. Even out in the countryside, where there tend to be fewer English speakers, you can still manage to communicate somehow. It can actually be an adventure and brings you closer to people as you try to understand each other.
surrealAmerican
(11,357 posts)More than 50% of Americans would not be able to afford it. It doesn't mean they're bad, stupid, bigoted, or in any way inferior to those who can afford it.
GeorgeGist
(25,311 posts)most Swedes speak better English than most Americans.
MineralMan
(146,254 posts)fear. Fear of strange places, different cultures, languages they don't know, and of feeling stupid in a strange place. A lot of people won't even travel to large cities in this country, for the same reasons. They are simply scared of big strange places.
Often, they'll make an excuse, claiming a different reason, like the language one the people in your post used. But it's fear.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)So it makes sense that they are less likely to travel or stray from their comfort zone.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)lack of interest in knowledge. Whatever causes it, it's real. The curiosity of early childhood dries up. Just think of the lack of general knowledge that caused this person to imagine English wasn't spoken in Sweden. Before electronic books I pretty much knew who read occasionally at home by availability of reading lights, and many didn't have any anywhere.
I once had a 17-year-old neighbor boy stop me cold by asking with breathtaking sincerity, "Why would I want to?" when I tried to encourage him to accept an offer to become an exchange student to Greece for a few weeks. I was stunned because I'd thought maybe he didn't want to miss out on his friends' doings or something else understandable, but his profound lack of interest was a huge, eyeopening lesson.
Many are most happy surrounded by their own small worlds and really don't want more. Fear of the unknown must certainly be part of it at base, but never to imagine they're not very content sitting around with friends talking about what everyone they know is doing and "wondering" (but not really) what's wrong with the rest of the world, Their choice and wouldn't change if it they could. Which they could.
Yavin4
(35,421 posts)Irrational fear of fellow human beings.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Are you imagining that because you're American and you're that way all Americans must be? How does it different from, say, the primitive French or Taiwanese mindset?
Yavin4
(35,421 posts)Ours are more pronounced and have a greater influence on our policies.
Speaking of mindsets, I'm reminded of the "self loathing" that afflicts too many, and specifically as it relates to politics. It's often manifested by extension to everything those unfortunates identify themselves with.
In any case, maybe take a look around this troubled planet and the many, many unspeakable atrocities being committed in many, many places. I suspect you'd develop an enormously expanded context for discussion of "primitive mindset."
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)attempting to communicate and (generally) having great fun while doing so. Those on the receiving end appreciate the effort and tend to be helpful. Same with me when I'm approached on the Metro by *totally* lost tourists. At least that's been my experience...
MineralMan
(146,254 posts)While I was stationed in Turkey, I found myself in a small shop. My Turkish was rudimentary, but adequate for greetings and purchases. Anyhow a Russian merchant sailor came in. I spoke Russian well, thanks to the USAF. But not Turkish. I could talk to the sailor, but not the shopkeeper.
So, I asked if someone spoke French. My high school French could handle most conversations. The shopkeeper recognized the language and stepped out and called to someone nearby, who came into the shop. We were all set.
The Russian sailor told me what he was looking for. I told the French-speaker in French. He told the shopkeeper in Turkish. Then we went the other direction.
The conversation went on and on, back and forth, in three languages. Mistakes were made in translation, and there was lots of laughter. Eventually the sailor got what he was looking for, a price was agreed to, and we all sat around and drank sweetened tea from little glasses.I
That's the fun of the whole thing.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)dhol82
(9,352 posts)Going from Munich to Paris.
I had French, Russian and minor bits of Spanish and Italian.
Did a round robin of arranging the purchase of a dog in Paris. Thats along with the the major changes in French currency at that time - i.e. old francs to new francs.
Fun memories.
treestar
(82,383 posts)from I Love Lucy - this was exactly what happened a French policeman spoke to a drunk who knew French and German, to someone who knew German and Spanish, to Ricky who knew Spanish and English to Lucy who spoke only English. They also passed along any gestures made by the end parties. Very funny skit.
MineralMan
(146,254 posts)Wounded Bear
(58,598 posts)I remember seeing this in a cartoon many years ago.
malaise
(268,686 posts)their home state -let alone a foreign country.
shraby
(21,946 posts)I read about it 30 year ago in the Reader's Digest I think.
Crunchy Frog
(26,578 posts)5X
(3,972 posts)Laffy Kat
(16,372 posts)And never left the base to explore. If I live to be a thousand I will never understand.
Vegas Roller
(704 posts)I have been there many times and it is a beautiful place to visit.
captain queeg
(10,089 posts)I have a younger sister who taught English in Sweden for a year and a half. My niece was born there and has dual citizenship. My older sister is from the generation where you got married after high school and stayed home and raised a bunch of kids.
anarch
(6,535 posts)a lot of people do in fact speak English, even if not "officially." Perhaps so they can talk to the America tourists, who they can fairly reasonably assume for the most part have not bothered to learn any of the local language.
Ms. Toad
(33,992 posts)It's not a bastion of liberalism, but hardly the heart of Trump country. Ohio voted for Obama in both 2008 and 2012, and is one of the few states with a Republican governor to expand Medicaid to provide access to health care and insurance
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)I finally got my sister and her husband to meet the wife and I in Paris a few years ago. Her first time out of the country. She only agreed to meet me because she thinks I speak French. I do a little, but can understand even less! But I enjoy diving in and making a fool of myself trying to speak their language. And admittedly, I do speak enough to smooth things along.
Now the wife and I have been to Europe 10 times and try to go every year. But after 3 trips to Germany, where everyone speaks English, find ourselves drawn to rural France, and Italy where English is not ubiquitous. I hear rural Spain is the same. We love feeling like we are in a truly foreign place.
But even after a trip to Paris she rates as a highlight of her life, is only planning trips without her brother to places that speak English! And in Paris almost everyone speaks English.
And she and her Husband are hard core progressive democrats where I tend to the moderate side.
Something about lots of Americans of all types and our lack of foreign languages make us feel helpless, I guess.
DFW
(54,275 posts)Many Swedes speak it better. I speak Swedish, so I rarely have a chance for comparison, but I know from hearing people in Sweden speak with foreigners who don't know their language.
Swedish seems to be the new language of the Republic of San Marcos.
Skittles
(153,111 posts)and yet I still managed to have a great time.....go figure
DFW
(54,275 posts)If you are THAT freaked out by people who don't speak like you do, you should either lock your doors from the inside or move to another planet, because MOST people on this planet don't speak your language, no matter what it is.
No one is going to erase ethnic diversity, so the two choices are to embrace it or hide from it. Since the native language(s) of most countries on this planet (not to mention of most of our ancestors) is NOT English, one is limiting one's self by not learning another language.
"I'm never going to go anywhere, so why should I?" You KNOW for certain that you're never going to go anywhere? You're never going to see a film made elsewhere? You're never going read a book written in another language? You KNOW you're never going to meet someone from another country? Most important of all, you don't care enough to give yourself the intellectual curiosity to bother? Well, OK, if you KNOW all that, my condolences.
But for the rest of us, let me tell you from very first-hand experiences that languages of other countries and cultures are portals to other worlds, other mentalities, other ways of thinking--ones we would never have found out about without knowledge of other languages. Knowledge of another language led me to my life's partner of (now one month shy of) 45 years, and our two fully bi-lingual daughters. They, in turn both found successful partners, one who is fluent in two languages, one who is fluent in three.
Never going beyond a very limited comfort zone doesn't mean you can't find a life's partner. However, it sure limits your choices. At age 20, my wife and I were completely unaware of each other's existence, me having grown up in a small town in Virginia, she having grown up in a tiny village in the farm country of northwestern Germany. Ten years later, we were married after having been together for 8 years, and speaking German with each other the whole time unless there were people around who only understood English or French, in which case we spoke those languages.
As for the OP's question of how many Trumpanzees have been out of the country? I'm betting that there are indeed a few. SOMEONE had to go arrange the loans from Russia, the oil deals with the Saudis, the hiding of crooked Republican money that will flow back into the USA next year, funding Republican campaigns without revealing the money's origin. But how many of them made the trip solely to enrich themselves culturally and broaden their intellectual horizons? I think you could fit them in one chartered plane and still have half the seats empty.
virgogal
(10,178 posts)has traveled all over......some speak 2 languages......why would you think otherwise?
Stuart G
(38,410 posts)..I worked in a high school where many nationalities of people came to live. The school was in Chicago in a totally mixed neighborhood and while I was there teaching history, we were told that there were over 50 languages spoken from all over the world. People had come to live and settle in Chicago and spoke languages from everywhere. For the most part, people accepted everyone, and there were few problems. When the bell rang, many of the students went to talk with their friends and you could hear the languages in the halls. It was an incredible place to work and there are many stories that go with this experience.
..Here is a story about what happened after I showed a movie, "Night and Fog" to the class. That movie is about the Nazi Concentration Camps and what went on there. It leaves nothing to the imagination. Nothing..
...Here is what happened after showing that film to one class. A very quiet student came up to me with his friend who spoke a lot. The quiet student told the story of his escape from Cambodia. The other student who spoke much better English, helped to fill in the parts that the young man from Cambodia had difficulty telling.
..His father was some kind of teacher or professor in Cambodia. The Khmer Rouge came knocking at his home to take his father away. As they were fighting with the father, the mother and this little boy escaped out a back window and eventually came to the U.S.A. The Khmer Rouge killed the father, but the two others escaped. (there may have been another family member, but I do not remember) This young man was 5 or 6 at the time, and this was ten years or 12 years later in the late 80s in my history class in a Chicago Public School. I will never forget that.
... While I showed a film on "Man's Inhumanity to Man" and the killing of innocents at Nazi concentration camps, a student who watched the movie in my class, came up and told me he had experienced something similar to that film and they killed his father. Yes, that is what the Khmer Rouge did to hundreds of thousands of people in the 70s. This young man experienced exactly what the Nazis did in Germany.
sop
(10,098 posts)During the height of the Cold War, when U.S. foreign aid would arrive in exotic 3rd world countries, Russian operatives - knowing American officials never studied or understood the languages in these out-of-the-way places they were helping - would place labels on the bags and boxes of aid stating "This Food is a Gift from Russia," written in the country's native language.
kskiska
(27,045 posts)"When we retire we're going to travel, but we want to see America first." Of course, back then by the time people retired they were compromised by health problems. By the age of 60 they were worn out and didn't get to travel much at all.