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Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:10 PM

This reparations issue. Who started it and why?

I don't understand.

Maybe it has to be addressed. Maybe those should be paid, maybe not. It's a matter for honest debate.

But why now when even if the House passes reparations it's dead on arrival in the Senate? And especially under this atmosphere where the House is reluctant for an impeachment because "it will divide the country"?

Why not wait until we have the power to do something?

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Reply This reparations issue. Who started it and why? (Original post)
Goodheart Jun 2019 OP
Dream Girl Jun 2019 #1
riverine Jun 2019 #2
Goodheart Jun 2019 #3
StarfishSaver Jun 2019 #7
DrToast Jun 2019 #23
StarfishSaver Jun 2019 #27
StarfishSaver Jun 2019 #10
Goodheart Jun 2019 #11
StarfishSaver Jun 2019 #13
Goodheart Jun 2019 #19
StarfishSaver Jun 2019 #22
Goodheart Jun 2019 #24
JustAnotherGen Jun 2019 #43
empedocles Jun 2019 #12
riverine Jun 2019 #17
Turin_C3PO Jun 2019 #25
empedocles Jun 2019 #34
Turin_C3PO Jun 2019 #37
StarfishSaver Jun 2019 #4
johnp3907 Jun 2019 #30
Mike Nelson Jun 2019 #5
StarfishSaver Jun 2019 #9
riverine Jun 2019 #14
Goodheart Jun 2019 #16
StarfishSaver Jun 2019 #20
Goodheart Jun 2019 #29
JustAnotherGen Jun 2019 #32
StarfishSaver Jun 2019 #39
NewJeffCT Jun 2019 #28
Goodheart Jun 2019 #31
StarfishSaver Jun 2019 #41
Cary Jun 2019 #6
FiveGoodMen Jun 2019 #8
gratuitous Jun 2019 #15
Goodheart Jun 2019 #18
gratuitous Jun 2019 #21
Goodheart Jun 2019 #26
JustAnotherGen Jun 2019 #35
StarfishSaver Jun 2019 #42
JustAnotherGen Jun 2019 #36
Goodheart Jun 2019 #38
DinahMoeHum Jun 2019 #33
ismnotwasm Jun 2019 #40
LexVegas Jun 2019 #44
stillcool Jun 2019 #45

Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:11 PM

1. Agree. Imagine what Trump will do with this during the election. He will weaponize this

with his deplorables and others. "Now they want to send free money to black people..."

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:13 PM

2. The two issues MOST likely to make a Democrat lose to Trump.

 

1- reparations
2- taking away employer based insurance from 180 million Americans

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Response to riverine (Reply #2)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:14 PM

3. Really, really dumb move to bring this up now.

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Response to Goodheart (Reply #3)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:17 PM

7. Every time it's come up in the last 150 years, we've been told it's not the right time

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #7)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:36 PM

23. That's not true

Most people aren't saying "it's not the right time." Most people are saying "it's a bad idea."

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Response to DrToast (Reply #23)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:41 PM

27. And people claiming it's a "bad idea" usually don't even know what the idea is

and the reason they think it's a bad idea is that it's either too early or too late to consider it.

Reparations?
No

Reparations?
Hell, no

Reparations?
Not now

Reparations?
Now's not the right time

Reparations?
Bad time to talk about it. Maybe later.

Reparations?
Now?! It's too late for that!

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Response to riverine (Reply #2)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:21 PM

10. We're supposed to impeach even if it doesn't remove Trump and gives him a weapon to use against

Democrats because "it's the right thing to do."

But don't mention reparations because Trump will use it against us?

We've been told for 150 years that now isn't the right time to talk about reparations. When SHOULD we bring it up?

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #10)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:26 PM

11. Certainly not now.

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Response to Goodheart (Reply #11)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:27 PM

13. When?

And who decides how long we're supposed to be quiet about it and when it's appropriate to bring it up?

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #13)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:32 PM

19. I've already answered that question.

When we have the power to do something.

Sorry, but it's not like the impeachment matter at all. Impeachment, itself, whether or not the Senate convicts, is a victory and it's bullshit that it would cause more trump voters.

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Response to Goodheart (Reply #19)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:35 PM

22. That's not an answer

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #22)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:36 PM

24. Sorry you didn't like my ANSWER.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #10)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 02:03 PM

43. I agree with it all

Here's what I'm waiting for - in about 10/15 years. And that's why we have to - we must KEEP bringing it up.

Time is on our side - NOT on the side of the current Dominant Culture.

And I personally will not stop asking for this. I'm not going to do it.

We got that Confederate Flag ripped down from Liberty State Park in NJ - and that's just the beginning.

The Confederacy WILL be brought to heel.

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Response to riverine (Reply #2)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:27 PM

12. 3 - Socialism

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Response to empedocles (Reply #12)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:29 PM

17. Yes, that too. I was trying to me more diplomatic for once

 

Make it THREE (3).

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Response to riverine (Reply #17)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:38 PM

25. Mitch McConnell calls everything Dems do "socialism".

It’s the Republican bogeyman that they use to discredit all liberal ideas.

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Response to Turin_C3PO (Reply #25)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:53 PM

34. The 'Socialism' problem, is not going to go away by; explaining, rationalizing, parsing, redefining

counter attacks, etc.,

It's been an effective political weapon that works for the 'cons. Especially works well when the Dems have aggressive proponents, who are not the best leaders etc. [rw media will promote such useful types, make them high profile, with national name recognition - as they have so successfully done in the past].

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Response to empedocles (Reply #34)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:57 PM

37. I refuse to let Mitch McConnell or any other radical "conservative" define socialism.

Socialism has an actual, textbook definition, and the media should ask every Republican who calls Democratic policies “socialism “ if they actually know the definition of said word. And, as far as I know, there’s only one prominent Democrat calling themselves a socialist.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:16 PM

4. Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee and Sen. Cory Booker have introduced legislation on this

But to clarify, they are not calling for individuals to be given money. These bills create a “Commission to Study and Develop Reparation Proposals for African-Americans." The state purpose of this legislation is to "address the fundamental injustice, cruelty, brutality, and inhumanity of slavery in the United States and the 13 American colonies between 1619 and 1865 and to establish a commission to study and consider a national apology and proposal for reparations for the institution of slavery, its subsequent de jure and de facto racial and economic discrimination against African-Americans, and the impact of these forces on living African-Americans, to make recommendations to the Congress on appropriate remedies, and for other purposes.

House Bill: https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/40/text?q=%7B%22search%22%3A%22reparations%22%7D&r=3&s=1

Senate Version: https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/1083/text?q=%7B%22search%22%3A%22reparations%22%7D&r=1&s=1

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #4)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:43 PM

30. Thanks for the info.

We need to at least know what we’re actually talking about.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:16 PM

5. I've heard about it...

… but I still don't understand how it would work. Almost anyone can say they had a slave as an ancestor. Will it be only African slaves? Will DNA be the judge? … also, I think it's a losing issue for Democrats. I'm willing to listen to advocates, but I don't think most people are...

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Response to Mike Nelson (Reply #5)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:19 PM

9. The legislation doesn't award money to anyone

Please at least read the bills and find out what they actually do before critiquing them.

Senate version, sponsored by Cory Booker: https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/1083/text?q=%7B%22search%22%3A%22reparations%22%7D&r=1&s=1

House version, sponsored by Sheila Jackson-Lee: https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/40?q=%7B%22search%22%3A%22reparations%22%7D&s=1&r=3

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #9)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:28 PM

14. You are linking to legislation to establish a commission

 

which would:

recommend appropriate remedies in consideration of the Commission’s findings on the matters described in subparagraphs (A) through (F) of paragraph


A commission is usually Washington DC speak for "postpone and later forget about it".

Opponents have no issue with a commission.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #9)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:29 PM

16. I'm sorry, but that's just double speak.

A study to "develop reparation proposals" is not for the purpose of giving money?

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Response to Goodheart (Reply #16)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:35 PM

20. There are all sorts of ways to do this without giving individuals money

I suggest you do some research about the topic before discussing it any further. It seems you have a lot to learn about it. Here are a couple of sources you can start with:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/06/the-case-for-reparations/361631/

https://harvardpolitics.com/culture/beyondreparations/

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #20)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:42 PM

29. I suggest you not be so snide.

The word "reparations" suggests money for the great majority of people.

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Response to Goodheart (Reply #29)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:49 PM

32. Repair

It's based in the word repair.

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Response to Goodheart (Reply #29)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 02:00 PM

39. I wasn't being snide.

I actually took time to find information for you.

If you're not interested in learning more a out this, that's on you. But don't assume that any effort to help you learn something is an attack.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #9)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:42 PM

28. do you think people are going to read the legislation?

it will be Republican/Trump sound bites on TV and on Twitter against Democratic sound bites and tweets.

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Response to NewJeffCT (Reply #28)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:43 PM

31. Exactly.

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Response to NewJeffCT (Reply #28)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 02:01 PM

41. Congress shouldn't pass any legislation because people won't read it and Trump will lie about it?

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:17 PM

6. My opinion

This is a generalization and I am sorry if I offend black people. I don't intend any offense.

Black people, as I understand them, feel that they are present victims of past discrimination. I think the facts irrefutably support them. I am not sure the best remedy is reparations although I do appreciate the justice of reparations. I think we need to go back to affirmative action but then "conservatives" sadly have shit all over that successful concept.

"Conservatives" are racists? fueled by tons and tons of racial resentment for no rational reason. And too they love cutting off their own noses to spite their faces. Broad based prosperity benefits us all, in every way. But the racists will have none of that.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:19 PM

8. It does seem odd, doesn't it?

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:28 PM

15. If the effects of Jim Crow were over, you might be right

But the toxic effects of these discriminatory practices continue to worm their way through our society today. For example, a recent survey of foreclosures due to reverse mortgages showed that lenders disproportionately targeted Black communities and neighborhoods. People who thought they were going to leave the value of their homes to their children found out that they had nothing left after a lifetime of work and thrift, thanks to predatory banking practices.

As noted above, it always seems like the wrong time to talk reparations, but it's always a good time for another tax break for the wealthy. Nobody ever ponders whether the Republicans are overplaying their hand by another big transfer of wealth to the upper reaches of our society, but my oh my, the hand-wringing that accompanies even the most modest proposals that would serve the working poor have to be fly-specked out of existence, lest our society get too accustomed to governance that benefits the lower classes.

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Response to gratuitous (Reply #15)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:30 PM

18. I might be right about what?

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Response to Goodheart (Reply #18)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:35 PM

21. Waiting, as usual

It's always a good time to let an injustice continue, because remedying it might cost votes. Odd how that consideration never seems to come up when Republicans open the Treasury for more looting by the overclass.

My position is that Democrats gain far more than they lose when they carry out popular policies that benefit large segments of the electorate.

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Response to gratuitous (Reply #21)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:39 PM

26. I disagree.

By its very nature "reparations" will turn off a lot of white people who feel that they're unwarranted, thus risking an election. It would be counterproductive to actually getting them done. Better to wait.

And, no, I don't feel the same about impeachment. I believe it's bullshit that impeachment would gain trump any more voters.

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Response to Goodheart (Reply #26)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:54 PM

35. And constantly hearing about

White Economic Anxiety
Opioids
Coal Miners


Is turning off a lot of black folks. We've put up with that since 2016 - and truthfully?

I want the black lung benefits pulled from the ACA in a year or two. It's a stupid job and no one should have to pay for it except the people stupid enough to do it. I don't see why I have to assist to the federal medicaid till when I'd prefer to give it to deserving high school seniors headed to HBCU's via the UNCF.

If we are gong to talk grievances and turn offs -

Can every ones be on the table?
Quite frankly - those heroin addicts don't look like me, it's not my problem, I didn't do it, and they have to take responsibility for themselves.

It's turning off black voters while black kids caught with a dime bag have their lives ruined forever.

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #35)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 02:02 PM

42. Thank you

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Response to gratuitous (Reply #21)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:55 PM

36. PS

I would be happy with stripping Confederate Soldiers names from our Military Forts.

If not - I want just hear in NJ - Fort Dix - changed to Fort Rommel just send another fuck you Mississippi.

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #36)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:57 PM

38. That would please me.

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 01:51 PM

33. Video of Ta-Nehisi Coates calling out Senator McConnell. . .

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 02:01 PM

40. Jesus.

Start here
This was hardly unusual. In 2001, the Associated Press published a three-part investigation into the theft of black-owned land stretching back to the antebellum period. The series documented some 406 victims and 24,000 acres of land valued at tens of millions of dollars. The land was taken through means ranging from legal chicanery to terrorism. “Some of the land taken from black families has become a country club in Virginia,” the AP reported, as well as “oil fields in Mississippi” and “a baseball spring training facility in Florida.”

160 Years of Atlantic Stories
A year-by-year catalogue of some of the magazine's most momentous work.
Read more

Clyde Ross was a smart child. His teacher thought he should attend a more challenging school. There was very little support for educating black people in Mississippi. But Julius Rosenwald, a part owner of Sears, Roebuck, had begun an ambitious effort to build schools for black children throughout the South. Ross’s teacher believed he should attend the local Rosenwald school. It was too far for Ross to walk and get back in time to work in the fields. Local white children had a school bus. Clyde Ross did not, and thus lost the chance to better his education.

Then, when Ross was 10 years old, a group of white men demanded his only childhood possession—the horse with the red coat. “You can’t have this horse. We want it,” one of the white men said. They gave Ross’s father $17.

“I did everything for that horse,” Ross told me. “Everything. And they took him. Put him on the racetrack. I never did know what happened to him after that, but I know they didn’t bring him back. So that’s just one of my losses.”


Sharecropper boys in 1936 (Carly Mydans/Library of Congress)
The losses mounted. As sharecroppers, the Ross family saw their wages treated as the landlord’s slush fund. Landowners were supposed to split the profits from the cotton fields with sharecroppers. But bales would often disappear during the count, or the split might be altered on a whim. If cotton was selling for 50 cents a pound, the Ross family might get 15 cents, or only five. One year Ross’s mother promised to buy him a $7 suit for a summer program at their church. She ordered the suit by mail. But that year Ross’s family was paid only five cents a pound for cotton. The mailman arrived with the suit. The Rosses could not pay. The suit was sent back. Clyde Ross did not go to the church program.


https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/06/the-case-for-reparations/361631/

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 02:08 PM

44. ...

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Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Wed Jun 19, 2019, 03:53 PM

45. Stunningly, frighteningly, Sad

Happy Juneteenth to you too.....

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/19/us/juneteenth-reparations-history.html
Reparations Are Rare in America, but They Have Been Paid Before
With a renewed focus on reparations for slavery, what lessons can be drawn from payments to victims of other historical injustices in America?

By Adeel Hassan and Jack Healy
June 19, 2019

Ever since a Union Army general announced in Galveston, Tex., that “all slaves are free” on June 19, 1865 — a day now commemorated as Juneteenth — the question of how to compensate the country’s formerly enslaved people has hung over the United States.


Lawmakers in Washington addressed reparations for slavery for the first time in more than 10 years on Wednesday. A House Judiciary subcommittee discussed a bill to create a commission that would make recommendations concerning “any form of apology and compensation” to descendants of enslaved African-Americans.


got people all in a dither. OMG

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