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underpants

(182,274 posts)
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 06:02 AM Jun 2019

WEAK. Frankly Trump calling off this attack is bad.

Last edited Fri Jun 21, 2019, 11:00 AM - Edit history (2)

I post this not as rooting against him, we all know he's horrible. POTUS's don't do this. You don't un-pull the trigger.*

I don't advocate for violence or the escalation that would clearly follow but you don't back off an attack after approving it. It makes him (or really a mid level management type reversing course on something) as flippant, erratic, immature.....and in Trump's case like a bully who showed his true weakness.

He provoked this starting with getting out of the deal a year ago. Since then he's poked and provoked and flustered about it. The consistent thinking on this is that Iran's actions of late have been expected in response to Trump's (Bolton/Pompeo) rhetoric and moves.

This link includes audio (at another link) of Sen. Kaine on NPR yesterday morning stating that in a briefing the prior day even CJC Gen Dunford and Pentagon brass agreed that Trump has escalated this himself and that Iran's responses were expected.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=12205518

The immediate questions are as I see it:
1. Is he really this erratic?
2. Did he reverse course because of domestic intervention (CJC Gen. Dunford) or international (Putin's annual Q&A last night)?
3. HOW weakened does this make us look?

*on edit - I just thought of that. Yeah coffee!

47 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
WEAK. Frankly Trump calling off this attack is bad. (Original Post) underpants Jun 2019 OP
I was apprehensive that Trump would go ahead and bomb Iran no_hypocrisy Jun 2019 #1
my answers Celerity Jun 2019 #2
he already looks weak to the world . it's good the attack didn't happen even if the reasons for it JI7 Jun 2019 #3
I agree 100% MaryMagdaline Jun 2019 #43
Trump is still going to do something stupid. procon Jun 2019 #4
Yes I'm afraid you are right. underpants Jun 2019 #5
That is what Trump does! BlueJac Jun 2019 #11
When asked by a psychologist what psychological profile foreign intelligence might draw of Trump, MBS Jun 2019 #6
Boy this campaign launch is going like an Infrastructure Week underpants Jun 2019 #7
+1 Martin Eden Jun 2019 #8
Consider many do not dispute him when he says that he made NK better karynnj Jun 2019 #9
Once a deceitful draft-dodging republican dotard, then... Achilleaze Jun 2019 #10
The United States is a global bully malaise Jun 2019 #12
"the sooner it is weakened the better." former9thward Jun 2019 #16
Well said. cwydro Jun 2019 #21
I agree. Never understood why the U.S. gets to say which countries get nukes, Va Lefty Jun 2019 #33
"The sooner it is weakened the better..." Blue_Tires Jun 2019 #30
... SammyWinstonJack Jun 2019 #32
The Devil you know? phandancer917 Jun 2019 #35
Yeah, I'm not disputing that point Blue_Tires Jun 2019 #41
Who Cares McKim Jun 2019 #13
WE ARE WEAK until Trump is out of office. I think we just need to contain the damage. hlthe2b Jun 2019 #14
He is terrorizing the entire planet malaise Jun 2019 #17
I don't care if he looks weak, and I would argue Ilsa Jun 2019 #15
That part is true malaise Jun 2019 #18
Enough here, too. I'm tired of Ilsa Jun 2019 #24
Please don't use my tax dollars to kill people over what side of a line a drone was flying Dorn Jun 2019 #19
Amen to that. nt Ilsa Jun 2019 #23
I don't care the reason. Attacking Iran would be incredibly stupid. cwydro Jun 2019 #20
Not just a bully but a juvenile schoolyard bully. gordianot Jun 2019 #22
good grief. Voltaire2 Jun 2019 #25
+100%. Don't care why he called it off, just glad he did. Should have never gotten to this point. Hoyt Jun 2019 #26
I most definitely agree with that G_j Jun 2019 #38
Just imagine... Docreed2003 Jun 2019 #27
Statement applies to literally EVERYTHING thats happened for 2.5 yrs. jcgoldie Jun 2019 #42
Well...that's true Docreed2003 Jun 2019 #44
This message was self-deleted by its author zentrum Jun 2019 #28
I thought I covered that. underpants Jun 2019 #31
Gottcha. I think zentrum Jun 2019 #46
One word: PUTIN Farmer-Rick Jun 2019 #29
I 100% agree with your premise. lark Jun 2019 #36
Great minds and all that. Farmer-Rick Jun 2019 #39
My guess is his master told him to do this and it pisses him off, but he complied anyway. lark Jun 2019 #34
Yup... phandancer917 Jun 2019 #37
To answer your questions: Blue_Tires Jun 2019 #40
Stop goading him. it is great that he called off the attack, for any reason. cbdo2007 Jun 2019 #45
Iran knows what it is doing Vegas Roller Jun 2019 #47

no_hypocrisy

(45,774 posts)
1. I was apprehensive that Trump would go ahead and bomb Iran
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 06:14 AM
Jun 2019

partly for his ego, partly for Iran, and partly as a message to North Korea that he doesn't bluff.

Celerity

(42,658 posts)
2. my answers
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 06:26 AM
Jun 2019
1. Is he really this erratic?

Yes, but he is just following a typical pattern. Tear shit up (Iran Agreement in this case) Poke and prod and ramp shit up. When it is at a breaking point, pull back and try to claim he is the daddy, the big saviour and was the only one who saved us all.

2. Did he reverse course because of domestic intervention (CJC Gen. Dunford) or international (Putin's annual Q&A last night)?

Doubtful, but maybe Putin helped push him to a de-escalation stance. I think Rump works off pure gut instinct (what a terrifying thought on every level)

3. HOW weakened does this make us look?

JI7

(89,174 posts)
3. he already looks weak to the world . it's good the attack didn't happen even if the reasons for it
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 06:27 AM
Jun 2019

were not the right ones.

procon

(15,805 posts)
4. Trump is still going to do something stupid.
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 06:34 AM
Jun 2019

It's extremely unlikely that he reconsidered and called off whatever claptrap revenge show he ordered in an ill thought fit of pique. Someone stepped in and staged an 11th hour intervention and convinced our immature leader to put his army men back in the box and eat some cookies instead.

But he'll read the morning news stories that are laughing at him and ridiculing him as an incompetent and pathetic bungler who tried to start a war and chickened out. Iran mocks him, and that a gonna make Trump go postal and unzip his fly to prove he's Rambo kinda guy.

MBS

(9,688 posts)
6. When asked by a psychologist what psychological profile foreign intelligence might draw of Trump,
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 06:41 AM
Jun 2019

-at a book signing about 1 1/2 years go, James Clapper said, "I would focus on his unpredictability." In other words, the erratic behavior you mentioned. That behavior emerges from his long list of character flaws that deem him unfit for office:

1. his profound ignorance of history, international relations, and governmental processes
2. his complete lack of any short-term or long-term policy strategy, foreign or domestic, beyond self-promotion and bigotry
3. his warring staff
4. his mental and emotional instability
5. his utter lack of any moral center

Senator Kaine's remarks about the Pentagon briefing were telling: if the Pentagon brass officially (and correctly) blames the situation on Trump. . .wow

Our country is in danger every minute this vandal-traitor (along with all of his enablers) is in office. we have got to win back both the White House and Senate, and retain the House, in 2020. This just can't go on.

underpants

(182,274 posts)
7. Boy this campaign launch is going like an Infrastructure Week
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 06:47 AM
Jun 2019

His big Fest was what 3 days ago now?

Preceding Tim on NPR was a former Ambassador (forgot her name) in a separate interview who spelled out the same cause and effect that Tim stated coming from the classified meeting. This is the general consensus and would be painfully obvious if the dots were close enough together in this madness to connect them.

Martin Eden

(12,802 posts)
8. +1
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 06:50 AM
Jun 2019

All 5 points are spot-on. Trump's warring staff is entirely of his own making, with sycophancy valued above competency.

karynnj

(59,475 posts)
9. Consider many do not dispute him when he says that he made NK better
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 06:51 AM
Jun 2019

In fact the comparison is to the time when he was calling him rocketman and threatening bombing. THAT for many on the right became the "BEFORE" letting him claim things are better due to his interactions.

Not attacking Iran will not make the US look weaker than we looked before. We already are weaker as far as diplomacy is concerned. The US was with the entire P5 of the UN plus Germany when the nuclear agreement was made and earlier when sanctions were levied.

Under Obama, we led on setting up the coalition against ISIS and led in the economic sanctions action with Europe when Russia invaded Ukraine. We were with our natural allies on everything.

Other than SA and UAE, currently committing war crimes in Yemen per the UN, who would support us in engaging Iran?

Achilleaze

(15,543 posts)
10. Once a deceitful draft-dodging republican dotard, then...
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 06:54 AM
Jun 2019

...always a deceitful dodgy republican dotard.

Everyone says.

malaise

(267,812 posts)
12. The United States is a global bully
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 07:05 AM
Jun 2019

Last edited Fri Jun 21, 2019, 09:19 AM - Edit history (1)

that does not value life - for the sake of our planet, the sooner it is weakened the better.
Jimmy Carter is correct - the US is always involved in some war or the other. And it's not as if you have any values left to offer the rest of us. Those are gone with these racist monsters.

Va Lefty

(6,252 posts)
33. I agree. Never understood why the U.S. gets to say which countries get nukes,
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 09:05 AM
Jun 2019

especially since we are the only country to use them on someone.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
30. "The sooner it is weakened the better..."
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 08:56 AM
Jun 2019

Check back with us when Russia and/or China are in the driver's seat dictating policy to the rest of the world and let us know if you still feel the same...

phandancer917

(145 posts)
35. The Devil you know?
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 09:06 AM
Jun 2019

Though I absolutely agree with Malaise that the US has LOOOONG been an international bully; engaging in many acts that we decry when others commit the same offenses - I also do NOT want us weakened as, with Good leadership <like President Carter and Obama>, we are MUCH better.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
41. Yeah, I'm not disputing that point
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 09:20 AM
Jun 2019

Sadly, sometimes we really do live up to the moniker of "The Great Satan" thanks to short-sighted or just flat-out evil foreign policy. This is why the next Dem president is going to have their work cut out for them in repairing all our lost relationships....

McKim

(2,412 posts)
13. Who Cares
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 07:06 AM
Jun 2019

Who cares how he feels. The important thing is that someone got to him about this major tragedy and averted it. We have no right to interefere in the Middle East and I will be so happy the day we are just a country for ourselves and for helping our own people. Iran is a modern country with much in common with us. My visit there showed me that we have much in comm9n. I do not buy into the myth of American dominance in the world.

hlthe2b

(101,717 posts)
14. WE ARE WEAK until Trump is out of office. I think we just need to contain the damage.
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 07:11 AM
Jun 2019

And, the last thing I want to see is Trump being "protected" against removal by a deflective war.

Ilsa

(61,675 posts)
15. I don't care if he looks weak, and I would argue
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 07:22 AM
Jun 2019

that this actually looks like the smart move, finally. We don't want this war. Iran has incredible cyber war capabilities. I don't want to live in the 1880s again.

malaise

(267,812 posts)
18. That part is true
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 07:31 AM
Jun 2019

but given his madness may be that was the intention all along.
This is what happens when a political party decides it must win at any cost to push its racist RW agenda. Sane people do not give a lunatic this kind of power.

I've had enough.

Ilsa

(61,675 posts)
24. Enough here, too. I'm tired of
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 08:09 AM
Jun 2019

Trump doing or saying crazy shit to keep us all exhausted with worry.

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
20. I don't care the reason. Attacking Iran would be incredibly stupid.
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 07:37 AM
Jun 2019

Kind of blowing my mind how many posts I’ve seen here this morning that seem to be a tad on the hawkish side.

Ugh.

gordianot

(15,226 posts)
22. Not just a bully but a juvenile schoolyard bully.
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 07:48 AM
Jun 2019

At least he recognizes when potential victims might fight back and acts accordingly like he did with North Korea. Being a coward may be his only asset.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
26. +100%. Don't care why he called it off, just glad he did. Should have never gotten to this point.
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 08:38 AM
Jun 2019

Response to underpants (Original post)

underpants

(182,274 posts)
31. I thought I covered that.
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 08:57 AM
Jun 2019

I am not concerned with how He looks, I’m stating that this was bad for him. I know we already look weak (a joke really) so I’m just asking how much weaker this makes us.

Farmer-Rick

(10,072 posts)
29. One word: PUTIN
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 08:51 AM
Jun 2019

He did this with Venezuela. He did this with North Korea. He is systamatically attacking (verbally) Russian supported countries then backing off at the last minute. It is as if he is purposely showing aggression to Russian back countries to force them closer to Putin.

As the leader of one of these countries he has verbally attacked, it goes like this: The US is threatening war with us help us Uncle Putin (Even if you are so short you have to tip toe to kiss Trump's sex worker on the cheek.) Maybe these countries weren't kissing up to little man Putin enough. Maybe they were getting too independent. Who knows? Only Putin knows for sure.

What we have to worry about is when he does this to a country Not supported by Russia. Then Trump will likely attack or the country will go ask Russia for help to protect them from America's psychopathic idiot RepubliCON leader.

It's all about Putin.

lark

(23,003 posts)
34. My guess is his master told him to do this and it pisses him off, but he complied anyway.
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 09:06 AM
Jun 2019

The dirt PUtin has on him is so massive he knows neither he nor his family will survive if it comes out, plus PUtin has promised him wealth untold if he just does what he's told - so in the end drumpf is nothing more than a Russian asset. There is nothing he's done that PUtin didn't approve first or that he didn't change after receiving PUtin's disapproval. Wonder if hiring Bolton was a rare moment of independence for him or just another PUtin ploy to disguise the truth?

phandancer917

(145 posts)
37. Yup...
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 09:08 AM
Jun 2019

...dude is bought and paid for.

As a wise person once said, 'don't worry about the person in the high office, worry about the cabal with 12 digit bank accounts that funds them"

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
40. To answer your questions:
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 09:15 AM
Jun 2019

1. You're asking something you already know the answer to, for some reason...

2. Probably a mix of both but if I had to bet I'd say the phone call from Moscow carried more weight than the objections of the joint chiefs...

3. Well, we were ALREADY a laughingstock on the world stage before yesterday so I don't think any opinions were changed. To other world leaders, Donnie will seem only more unpredictable and untrustworthy (and some very specific world leaders will see he's even easier to manipulate than they thought and take full advantage)... The fate of the free world hinges literally on what he sees on television the next few days: If he sees the usual cultists on Fox News proclaiming that he's wiser than Solomon, has a better military mind than Eisenhower, and a bigger ballsack than Reagan, he might just chill... But if he sees other world leaders calling him out as the genocidal egotist madman that he is, God help us...

cbdo2007

(9,213 posts)
45. Stop goading him. it is great that he called off the attack, for any reason.
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 10:32 AM
Jun 2019

No I'm not a Trump fan by any means, and I'm sure he has some other plans and ideas, but the longer we can prolong another strike on another country and a potential war is good because it gives us more time to change course.

 

Vegas Roller

(704 posts)
47. Iran knows what it is doing
Fri Jun 21, 2019, 11:54 AM
Jun 2019

and Trump is clueless.

Iran wins either way. If Trump attacks, the population will rally behind the government and solve its domestic discontent problem.

If Trump backs down, the government can claim victory and become popular.

It will peel off Europeans from the sanctions regime and perhaps other countries as well.

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