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Sat Jun 22, 2019, 09:44 PM

one aspect of impeachment and removal that seems to escape everyone, especially republicans.

when you impeach and remove the president, the replacement is the vice-president.

that would be pence, who, oh by the way, is another republicans.

not obama, not hillary, not pelosi.

pence. deep-red indiana christian right-wing republican pence.


call it a flaw in the constitution or call it a feature, but impeachment and removal is *not* about reversing the election or switching control of the presidency to the other party. it's simply about replacing the *individual* with another *individual*, and in practice, it's virtually guaranteed to be an individual from the same party.


republicans have been circling the wagons and falling over themselves, racing to the bottom, lying and committing crimes in order to protect an *individual* wholly unworthy of their loyalty, when they could simply replace him with pence and they could put some distance between themselves and donald fraud's astounding record of incompetence, lying, and evil.

surely they'd be happier and more comfortable with pence's record of incompetence, lying, and evil.

seriously, why do not recognize donald fraud as an albatross who will take down their entire party?

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Response to unblock (Original post)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 09:48 PM

1. and Pence will pardon Trump if he were convicted and removed...he would walk from any fed charges.

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Response to Thomas Hurt (Reply #1)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 09:49 PM

2. But he would not walk from NY charges.

Rikers Island awaits him.

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Response to trev (Reply #2)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 10:16 PM

8. By the time sentencing comes, if it comes,

His lawyers will insist that any prison time at all would be a death sentence for health reasons.

By far the most likely best outcome is he settles for cash, admitting no wrongdoing.

Maybe, maybe there's an outside chance there's house arrest in one of his luxury properties.

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Response to unblock (Reply #8)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 10:30 PM

11. Yeah, the justice system isn't so just.

You may be right. He might just walk.

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Response to Thomas Hurt (Reply #1)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 10:13 PM

6. Pence will be president for a few hours on January 20, 2021,

for that very purpose.

Not that it matters much. I really can't see donald fraud going to prison. At worst he'll settle for an undisclosed amount, admitting no wrongdoing, as he has done some many times in the past....

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Response to unblock (Original post)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 09:51 PM

3. It's a good point...

 

It's a good point ... if anything, they get rid of a negative and replace him with (from the GOP point of view) at worst a neutral.

Actually, I am sure there are some back channel conversations going on right now between Team Pence and Team Impeach, and Team Trump is deliberately kept out of the loop.

Given the choice of being Trump's footstool or being Jerry Ford, who wouldn't rather be Jerry Ford?

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Response to unblock (Original post)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 09:55 PM

4. When the Constitution was first written it didn't work that way; that is,

a vice president who took over for a president who left office wouldn't have been from the same party (in fact, the founding fathers and Washington didn't think there should be political parties at all). Originally, the vice president would have been the person who received the second most electoral college votes for president, so the VP would be from the opposite party. However, in 1800 there was a tie in the electoral college between Jefferson and Burr, so the president had to be selected by the House. To prevent that from happening again, the 12th Amendment was added to the Constitution in 1804, creating the current system where electors cast a separate ballot for the vice presidency.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #4)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 10:11 PM

5. Right. Without the 12th, Republicans' current behavior would make sense.

It would be understandable if impeaching Donald fraud meant handing the White House to a Democrat.

But two centuries later, they are acting as if there's far more to it than replacing one republican with another.

I get that it wouldn't be a boon to their electoral chance in 2020, but surely it's better to have it be old news already dealt with....

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Response to unblock (Original post)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 10:14 PM

7. Does that really matter?

Should we allow his behavior, his complete disregard for the Constitution to continue because impeaching would put Pence in? Personally, using this as an excuse is cold comfort. I would rather we damn him and his flaunting of the oath of president in full view of the American people.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Reply #7)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 10:18 PM

9. Sounds good to me.

I'm more baffled by republicans' behavior than democrats'.

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Response to unblock (Original post)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 10:24 PM

10. According to the Steele dossier, Putin gives Trump compromising info to use

against others. Remember the complete 180 Lindsey Graham did after one golf game alone with Trump? Wanna get he learned what dirt Trump has on him?

Besides, most Republicans are up to their elbows in rubles.

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Response to unblock (Original post)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 10:50 PM

12. Some of us have been very aware of that.

Pence in many ways is more dangerous than Trump, simply because he seems sane and sensible and will continue to do all of the awful things Trump has done, only with a noticeable right-wing religious fanatic aspect to everything.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #12)

Sat Jun 22, 2019, 10:55 PM

13. True. Pence could give Donald fraud's policies an air of normalcy.

Another reason why republicans may come to regret sticking by Donald fraud.

Pelosi is smart. I'm in favor of impeachment hearings, and surely we've already seen more than enough to justify actual impeachment. But timing is everything, and this needs to reach a crescendo late next year....

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Response to unblock (Original post)

Sun Jun 23, 2019, 12:44 AM

14. Pence is no better than trump but

with him the problem is he is a batshit religious freak and the bigger problem is that he is smart. He is more dangerous than trump.

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Response to Doreen (Reply #14)

Sun Jun 23, 2019, 12:48 AM

15. I have my doubts and how smart he is,

But yeah, we may one day look back and be happy that Donald fraud was so damn obvious.

Well, to most of us, anyway.

Pence is certainly scary. All republicans are these days.

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Response to unblock (Original post)

Sun Jun 23, 2019, 03:06 PM

16. I got an email about an 'unconsidered aspect' that was bothersome...

...maybe someone can clarify this for me. I get constant negative BS from family 99% of which is crap you hear everyday. I got one about impeachment that threw me a little. It made the point that trump gets to 'mount a vigorous defense' of impeachment charges brought by the House which includes subpoena power to question basically anyone he wants under oath

If a House Democrat is subpoenaed and refuses to testify charges against trump could be dropped. If this is true it's very easy to understand Pelosi's reticence in pursuing impeachment. The email is written by some 'expert' and lists a bunch of procedural crap most of which e hear about all the time. I had just never heard this stuff before and it seems very dangerous!

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Response to TexasBlueDog (Reply #16)

Sun Jun 23, 2019, 04:27 PM

17. Haven't been able to locate actually procedures.

Up to senate rules I guess.

There's precedent, not just in bill Clinton's and Andrew Johnson's trials, but also in impeachment trials of other officials.

That said, the senaturtle would likely give Donald fraud special concessions....

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