Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

UpInArms

(51,280 posts)
Wed Jun 26, 2019, 07:08 PM Jun 2019

The Devastating Oddness of E. Jean Carroll's Trump Accusation

Having witnessed the vicious abuse women who came forward with allegations against Trump endured, Carroll approached her disclosure obliquely. More straightforward accounts—of allegedly groping a woman on an airplane until she had to leave first class to get away, or grabbing and kissing a People magazine writer, or feeling up a former Miss Finland, or kissing a receptionist in a building where he had office space, or fingering a woman he hadn’t met or spoken to while sitting next to her at a nightclub, or grabbing an Apprentice contestant—hadn’t worked. The women quickly got sorted into categories as victims or opportunists, and all it took was a weirdly phrased denial, often accompanied by a Trumpian swipe at their looks, for their claims to be, it not forgotten, then certainly abandoned by the public and the press.

Of the allegations against Trump, Carroll’s is among the most serious, and while she isn’t the first to publish a first-person account (Natasha Stoynoff did, too) her approach is startlingly frank. The results have been mixed: Conservatives on Twitter spent much of Monday night mocking Carroll’s surprising comment to Anderson Cooper that people find rape “sexy”—(“think of the fantasies,” she said, clarifying in the interview that her attack had been anything but sexy). But she’s basically right. Decades as an advice columnist have taught Carroll something about American psychology; she might understand, better than most, that many of Trump’s devotees seem to find sexual harassment and assault more titillating than objectionable. They might actually kind of like the idea of his having done what he is on record as saying he does. Seen through this looking glass, it’s evidence of red-blooded American manhood. Of power. “I run the risk of making him more popular by revealing what he did,” Carroll writes. By not saying the ordinary or expected things, Carroll tells the story of her rape differently. The lack of coverage it received despite or because of her efforts is evidence that survivors understand perfectly well that there are no good options.

The fact is, there is no format for a rape report that guarantees the victim a fair reception. The tacit “common sense” expectations people usually have of survivors—that they be both distraught enough to dispel any idea that they might have consented but also clear-headed and proactive enough to visit both a hospital and a police station in the immediate aftermath of their attack—are in practice not particularly compatible with anything we know about how people work. This failure to understand human nature is not, however, what seems to trouble #MeToo skeptics. What troubles them more is the suspicion that #MeToo is a blunt and Manichean instrument turning gray-area (and even transactional) casting-couch scenarios into a struggle between innocents and malefactors. That the movement fails to describe a very different kind of “human nature”—what really happened—which is that the women knew what they were doing at the time and only now were reneging on the deal like bad sports.

...snip...

Carroll’s candor extends to the way she recounts meeting Trump, whom she describes as not just good-looking but “prettier than ever.” She enjoys the shopping game he seems to be playing, finds it hilarious and vaguely thrilling to be browsing for a gift for some unspecified woman with the famous and blustery real estate guy. Carroll’s essay risks a great deal, in short, to acknowledge the blundering human complexity of the situation. If anything, Carroll’s piece dwells on the oddities. She doesn’t just acknowledge the weirdness of an unlocked dressing room and absent salesperson in Bergdorf’s, she lingers on it: “t is almost easier to accept the fact that I was attacked than the fact that, for a very brief period, there was no sales attendant in the lingerie department. Inconceivable is the word.” When I say this is literary, this is what I mean. The essay is doing things a news report can’t and wouldn’t.


More at https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/06/e-jean-carrolls-trump-rape-allegation-odd.amp
6 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
The Devastating Oddness of E. Jean Carroll's Trump Accusation (Original Post) UpInArms Jun 2019 OP
That is perhaps the best written, most psychologically astute piece I've ever read in Slate. femmedem Jun 2019 #1
I have nervous laughter sometimes marlakay Jun 2019 #6
I was glad it recognized the "survival mechanism" many women of this generation had- dawg day Jun 2019 #2
Thank you for that perspective. femmedem Jun 2019 #4
Yes-- there were so many tradeoffs for women in so many different areas of life-- dawg day Jun 2019 #5
K&R UTUSN Jun 2019 #3

femmedem

(8,199 posts)
1. That is perhaps the best written, most psychologically astute piece I've ever read in Slate.
Wed Jun 26, 2019, 07:33 PM
Jun 2019

Thanks for posting it--from a woman who appalled the nurse who examined me after a rape by telling nonstop jokes, until she briefly left the room, came back and found me weeping.

marlakay

(11,446 posts)
6. I have nervous laughter sometimes
Thu Jun 27, 2019, 01:45 AM
Jun 2019

I understand why she didn’t come forward, I tried once to tell a guy of an experience when i was 17 of getting talked into a threesome I didn’t want to do, i felt shamed and awful about it for years. The guy thought it was sexy.



dawg day

(7,947 posts)
2. I was glad it recognized the "survival mechanism" many women of this generation had-
Wed Jun 26, 2019, 08:15 PM
Jun 2019

Assault of one kind of another, especially by men in "friendly" situations like parties and dates, was so common that just to go on-- just to get to work or class the next day, just to deal with men without having a breakdown-- we often adopted a jaunty "no big deal" attitude. Even as we knew it was doing untold damage to the psyche, there was some pride involved in "never letting the bastards get you down", because there was a real sense then that this was (and remains, btw) one of the ways men kept their privileged positions, by frightening women enough that some would recede and others would withdraw entirely. To NOT recede, to laugh through the fear, to show up the next day, to put makeup on the bruises, to go away and hide to have the baby secretly and come back and get back started on life... these were signs of courage. Yeah, it's distorted, but as Ms. Carroll shows, it was a twisted time.

(And this is, btw, one way the majority of men who would not hurt women still benefitted from the many who would-- because every woman who dropped that calculus class because the professor was harassing her left room for men to get ahead of her, every woman who didn't work till eight because she didn't want to walk home alone in the dark meant that some male co-worker got more credit for "dedication". Not your fault, guys, but you might recognize the systemic effects of abusive men instilling constant anxiety in women.)

I appreciated that. So many of the deniers want to take, say, Blasey-Ford's success as evidence that "nothing bad really happened to her," as if a woman's courage was a mark against her.

One of the blessings of the #MeToo movements was to reveal a huge secret, that assaults are so common. Most women, I think, have dealt with minor intrusions-- fondling, forced kisses-- and many have dealt with assaults that were to the point of criminality. I'm not sure most men understand how pervasive this is, especially for young women and women in vulnerable positions.

The more of us who say in whatever tone we need, the better. "I never went to a party in college that someone didn't grab me. I kept going to parties. I wasn't going to let some dickwads keep me from having fun!"
"The subway is always a problem. Every week some guy will rub his dick against me. What can I do? Last time I yelled in his face. That felt good. But he would have hit me then if someone hadn't shoved in between us."
"The professor constantly makes what he thinks are sexy suggestions to me when I come for office hours. What am I supposed to do? He's my dissertation advisor. I've already switched advisors once-- the other was even worse. I can't do it again. I need good recommendations to get a job after this."

The more who tell the truth the say Ms. Carroll did-- in whatever terms are needed-- the better. This is reality for so many women. No one is going to handle it the right way every time, because, really, what is the 'right thing'? Men not bothering women. Men can try that-- just don't do it, and shame other men who do.

femmedem

(8,199 posts)
4. Thank you for that perspective.
Wed Jun 26, 2019, 08:50 PM
Jun 2019

I'm about half a generation younger than Ms. Carroll and the culture had begun to shift. I am in awe of Carroll's and other women of that era's strength, but also afraid for them when they tell their stories because their coping methods can make them seem less believable today.

dawg day

(7,947 posts)
5. Yes-- there were so many tradeoffs for women in so many different areas of life--
Thu Jun 27, 2019, 12:02 AM
Jun 2019

Like marrying a man who had access to power or ambition because that might get you some power.
Or not marrying at all because it was so difficult to succeed with a split focus.
Babying the male ego of a boss who was stupid and venal because he didn't grope you and could help you get promoted.
Letting the guy win more than half the games. (Didn't matter what the game was.)
Taking pride in being "one of the guys" even if it meant putting up with lots of boring sports talk.
Limiting your interest or conversation about "girly things" because they might make you look "weak."

Time have changed (but not enough)!

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»The Devastating Oddness o...