HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » We just witnessed the wor...

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 12:25 PM

We just witnessed the worst aspect of soccer - *spoilers*

Last edited Sun Jul 7, 2019, 05:52 PM - Edit history (2)

Hard fought contest, scoreless, neither team can generate a goal during the normal course of play, and then suddenly...

A Dutch lady tries VERY HARD to kick a ball, so much so that her entire body came upside down, absolutely no intent, whatsoever, to foul the American....

And then a cheap goal from a penalty.

And they call this "sport".

I'm certainly very happy that American women are the best at this game, but can you tell that I don't like soccer? LOL

Edited to add (because some have misread my actual point):

- Yes, it certainly was a penalty.
- Yes, such high reckless kicks certainly should be penalized, regardless of intent.

140 replies, 4936 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 140 replies Author Time Post
Reply We just witnessed the worst aspect of soccer - *spoilers* (Original post)
Goodheart Jul 7 OP
Funtatlaguy Jul 7 #1
lunamagica Jul 7 #33
Funtatlaguy Jul 7 #41
muriel_volestrangler Jul 7 #58
malaise Jul 7 #2
Still In Wisconsin Jul 7 #3
Goodheart Jul 7 #4
malaise Jul 7 #6
sarisataka Jul 7 #9
N_E_1 for Tennis Jul 7 #10
fishwax Jul 7 #15
Dr. Strange Jul 7 #47
fishwax Jul 7 #51
Ilsa Jul 7 #24
qazplm135 Jul 7 #40
JDC Jul 7 #119
jayschool2013 Jul 7 #5
mobeau69 Jul 7 #27
qazplm135 Jul 7 #43
MichMan Jul 7 #46
JustABozoOnThisBus Jul 7 #48
mobeau69 Jul 7 #103
Funtatlaguy Jul 7 #28
ananda Jul 7 #38
malaise Jul 7 #87
sarisataka Jul 7 #50
jayschool2013 Jul 7 #7
Funtatlaguy Jul 7 #31
lunamagica Jul 7 #37
Post removed Jul 7 #45
obamanut2012 Jul 7 #129
sarisataka Jul 7 #133
sarisataka Jul 7 #8
malaise Jul 7 #139
mcar Jul 7 #11
Goodheart Jul 7 #13
mcar Jul 7 #16
Takket Jul 7 #22
mitch96 Jul 7 #120
gratuitous Jul 7 #17
Goodheart Jul 7 #19
gratuitous Jul 7 #29
Goodheart Jul 7 #34
gratuitous Jul 7 #36
Goodheart Jul 7 #39
muriel_volestrangler Jul 7 #62
Goodheart Jul 7 #96
sarisataka Jul 7 #32
Gothmog Jul 7 #69
TeamPooka Jul 7 #12
Goodheart Jul 7 #14
Iggo Jul 7 #23
Goodheart Jul 7 #25
Iggo Jul 7 #30
malaise Jul 7 #128
Ilsa Jul 7 #18
Goodheart Jul 7 #20
Pachamama Jul 7 #131
MicaelS Jul 7 #21
Goodheart Jul 7 #26
Funtatlaguy Jul 7 #35
Goodheart Jul 7 #42
sarisataka Jul 7 #49
mcar Jul 7 #53
Goodheart Jul 7 #56
sarisataka Jul 7 #78
Denzil_DC Jul 7 #108
MicaelS Jul 7 #97
3catwoman3 Jul 7 #121
MicaelS Jul 7 #135
3catwoman3 Jul 7 #136
MicaelS Jul 7 #137
3catwoman3 Jul 7 #138
Drahthaardogs Jul 7 #44
Music Man Jul 7 #52
Goodheart Jul 7 #54
Music Man Jul 7 #55
Denzil_DC Jul 7 #113
muriel_volestrangler Jul 7 #57
Goodheart Jul 7 #59
muriel_volestrangler Jul 7 #64
Goodheart Jul 7 #66
muriel_volestrangler Jul 7 #72
Goodheart Jul 7 #74
muriel_volestrangler Jul 7 #82
Gothmog Jul 7 #60
Goodheart Jul 7 #65
Gothmog Jul 7 #67
Goodheart Jul 7 #68
Gothmog Jul 7 #70
Goodheart Jul 7 #73
Gothmog Jul 7 #89
Goodheart Jul 7 #91
Gothmog Jul 7 #107
Buckeyeblue Jul 7 #61
Goodheart Jul 7 #63
Gothmog Jul 7 #71
Goodheart Jul 7 #76
onenote Jul 7 #86
Goodheart Jul 7 #90
onenote Jul 7 #92
Goodheart Jul 7 #94
onenote Jul 7 #102
onenote Jul 7 #93
Goodheart Jul 7 #95
IluvPitties Jul 7 #75
Goodheart Jul 7 #77
Bradical79 Jul 7 #79
Goodheart Jul 7 #80
onenote Jul 7 #83
Bradical79 Jul 7 #88
Bradical79 Jul 7 #84
Voltaire2 Jul 7 #123
Goodheart Jul 7 #124
Voltaire2 Jul 7 #126
FakeNoose Jul 7 #81
onenote Jul 7 #85
3catwoman3 Jul 7 #98
Goodheart Jul 7 #99
elias7 Jul 7 #100
Kingofalldems Jul 7 #101
Goodheart Jul 7 #104
underpants Jul 7 #105
LisaL Jul 7 #106
Goodheart Jul 7 #110
JCMach1 Jul 7 #109
Marrah_Goodman Jul 7 #111
Goodheart Jul 7 #114
hunter Jul 7 #112
Goodheart Jul 7 #115
hunter Jul 7 #116
Goodheart Jul 7 #117
hunter Jul 7 #130
Music Man Jul 7 #118
Raine1967 Jul 7 #122
Voltaire2 Jul 7 #125
redstateblues Jul 7 #127
jcgoldie Jul 7 #132
BooScout Jul 7 #134
honest.abe Jul 7 #140

Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 12:28 PM

1. Agreed. There was no intent by theDutch player to injure theAmerican.

It was incidental contact.
But that doesnít exist in soccer ⚽️
Just one more reason that soccer sucks.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Funtatlaguy (Reply #1)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:22 PM

33. Right. It's only the most populal sport in the world, by far

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lunamagica (Reply #33)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:31 PM

41. Yes, it is. And it bores me to tears. But glad you and others like it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Funtatlaguy (Reply #1)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:23 PM

58. Rules of sports aren't just about "intent to injure"

In American football, for instance, you can't just push a player over when they're trying to catch a pass.

Do you watch much sport?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 12:29 PM

2. BS

That was a clear penalty - I called it before it went to VAR

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to malaise (Reply #2)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 12:31 PM

3. Yeah that was a penalty all the way.

Not a hard call.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to malaise (Reply #2)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 12:32 PM

4. Yes, a clear penalty according to the rules. So what?

The point stands. The fact that a penalty can decide so much says a lot about soccer.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #4)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 12:33 PM

6. Then don't watch n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #4)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 12:49 PM

9. So is it

You just don't like soccer and will find a reason to support your opinion?

Are there any other sports you judge the rules so harshly?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #4)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 12:54 PM

10. Penalty shots in hockey...

That score and change the game...a penalty that takes away a touchdown in football, changes the game...all with clear and unarguable penalties...what does that say about sports?

Iím not a soccer fan...but I am a sports fan and donít agree with some penalties (especially if they are against my team) but rules are rules like it or not. Tell me of one sport where a called penalty may not change the game.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #4)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:06 PM

15. that's true of pretty much every team sport

The fact that a penalty can decide so much


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to fishwax (Reply #15)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:39 PM

47. It does get magnified in low-scoring sports though.

Soccer and hockey are more susceptible to "penalty distortions"; soccer more so, what with the enhanced penalties in the box.

The only way around that issue, that I can tell, would be to try to adjust the game so that scoring is easier. You could make the goals bigger, but that's a major adjustment--probably a bridge too far. The NHL did away with the dumb two-line pass rule, which opened the game back up. I wouldn't mind seeing soccer loosen up the off sides rule, and give the offensive players more leeway.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dr. Strange (Reply #47)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:53 PM

51. i don't really agree, unless one sees both scoring and penalties in isolation

from the rest of the game. The percentage of points awarded by a penalty shot is higher in soccer than in basketball, sure, but that doesn't really mean that fouls have a bigher impact on the game as a whole. Football doesnt have any points that come directly from a penalty try (i suppose pass interference in the end zone under nfl rules would come closest, but it's not really the same), but fouls still play a huge part in the game. The NFC championship thus year hinged on a penalty (that wasn't called).

The foul today didn't happen in isolation, but was at least in part a function of a defense wearing down after holding up admirably for three-quarters of pressure. You see the same thing a lot in basketball, too.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #4)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:15 PM

24. If you think penalty kicks should count for less,

then propose some rule changes: two points for an action field goal, one point for a penalty kick. I wouldn't mind a proposal like that since there us no way to fully discern intent.

But I suspect you would just be spitting into the wind.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #4)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:31 PM

40. I don't like soccer

but a penalty deciding everything happens in nearly every sport all of the time.

Football, basketball, hockey...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #4)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 05:17 PM

119. Never watched the NFL, NBA, NHL, or MLB?

Sports outcomes are quite often decided by officiating and calls on the field.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 12:33 PM

5. Intent is not a rationale for a foul or a penalty

in football, basketball, hockey, horse racing, etc.

A foul is defined by the rulebook, no matter the sport.

It's not a problem with soccer. In fact, it's not a problem at all, but definitely nothing to pin on soccer.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jayschool2013 (Reply #5)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:17 PM

27. Intentional grounding in Football is one and an intentional foul in Basketball is another.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mobeau69 (Reply #27)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:31 PM

43. ok but the VAST majority of penalties in both sports

don't care about intent.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mobeau69 (Reply #27)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:36 PM

46. Their are intentional fouls in basketball at the end of every game.

That penalty is hardly ever enforced

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mobeau69 (Reply #27)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:40 PM

48. In the last few minutes of a basketball game, it seems ...

... that ALL the fouls are intentional. So the last three minutes can last for 20 minutes. Are any of the intentional fouls called as "intentional"?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JustABozoOnThisBus (Reply #48)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 04:02 PM

103. They always foul the guy with the ball while they're "going for the ball".

If they aren't making a play on the ball or they foul one of the other players without the ball an intentional will be called every time.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jayschool2013 (Reply #5)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:18 PM

28. Wrong. Targeting in football is intent. Basketball also has intent levels of ejection.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jayschool2013 (Reply #5)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:26 PM

38. Too bad we don't hold people to the rule of law the same way.

...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ananda (Reply #38)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 03:02 PM

87. Ding ding we have a winner

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jayschool2013 (Reply #5)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:52 PM

50. There is some rationale

Had the Netherlands player intentionally kicked the US player ot would have been a penalty and a red card

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 12:34 PM

7. Non-soccer fans

I'm always amazed at the number of people who watch soccer and then post comments on message boards about how they don't like soccer.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jayschool2013 (Reply #7)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:19 PM

31. I didnt watch that shit intentionally.was captive at a sports bar. Don't assume.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Funtatlaguy (Reply #31)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:25 PM

37. Captive? How so? You could have left at any time to avoid the torture

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lunamagica (Reply #37)


Response to Funtatlaguy (Reply #31)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 06:19 PM

129. That game wasn't "shit"

WTF is wrong with you???

You go to a sports bar the morning of the World Cup Finals and call the #uswnt's historic win "shit"?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #129)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 07:32 PM

133. Some people watched the best female athletes

In their sport put an exclamation point on an excellent tournament. They saw the champions face a worthy opponent who made them earn the right to keep their crown for another four years. They saw the final game of a month that won millions of fans to the women's side of the sport and likely inspired girls across the globe to take the chance and teach for their dreams. All of this done in spite of outrageous, widening pay gaps and being treated as a sideshow by their own governing body.

Others just saw "shit"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 12:37 PM

8. I am not a fan of VAR

however that was 100% a penalty and a yellow

It does not matter what the intent of the player was, and I agree she did not mean to kick the US player, but what actually happened. A reckless kick that does not touch the ball but instead strikes an opponent is a direct free kick foul; inside the box it is a penalty kick.

The referee did not have a good line to see the foul. Were I in her place I would have consulted the AR who had a clear view of play. FIFA is telling the refs to rely on VAR.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sarisataka (Reply #8)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 08:57 PM

139. 100% correct

The Ref called for a corner while I was screaming penalty and then the VAR folks spoke to her - when she saw the replay that was that - clear penalty

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 12:57 PM

11. Wrong

A high kick is a high kick. Any soccer player, even nice Dutch ladies, get the card for that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mcar (Reply #11)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:02 PM

13. I'm not wrong about anything, sorry. I never said it was not a penalty.

My objection is that penalties determine so much. In fact, 100% of the scoring up to that point.

Got it?

As far as soccer fans hurt that some others don't like soccer: Get over it. You're perfectly entitled to enjoy it, and I'm happy that you do. To each his own. Really. I was just explaining one of the many reasons I will never like it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #13)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:07 PM

16. Here's a thought:

Don't like the sport, don't watch. I don't watch US football for that reason.

I'm off to enjoy the US women's win.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mcar (Reply #16)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:14 PM

22. +1

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mcar (Reply #16)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 05:25 PM

120. +1

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #13)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:08 PM

17. So, you're saying players should play any way they want and not be penalized?

Because that's kind of a stupid point and it sounds like you don't know what you're talking about. The rules are in place to maintain the integrity of the game, protect the players from injury, and provide a platform for the better team to win.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gratuitous (Reply #17)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:12 PM

19. No, I'm not saying that. LOL.

I'm saying that FOR ME the game is structurally boring, and that random penalties determine too much. I have several ideas that would preserve the basic nature of the game but would make it a lot more fun to watch. I won't share these here.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #19)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:18 PM

29. Well then

You might want to either (a) stop watching soccer; (b) quit complaining about something you clearly don't understand; or (c) learn something so you don't sound quite so ignorant.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gratuitous (Reply #29)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:23 PM

34. "Clearly don't understand"? LOL.

It's not rocket science. I understand it fully.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #34)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:24 PM

36. No, you don't

I understand you think you know what you're talking about, but you don't. Really. Education can overcome ignorance, but stubbornness doesn't overcome anything.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to gratuitous (Reply #36)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:29 PM

39. What's not to understand? According to the rules it was a penalty.

I never said otherwise. I never said it SHOULDN'T be a penalty, either. Nothing difficult to understand. You're just upset that somebody criticized soccer. Get over it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #39)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:29 PM

62. You called the penalty 'random'. That shows you don't understand (nt)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #62)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 03:16 PM

96. Of course it was random.

Did either team plan on it?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #19)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:20 PM

32. Why not?

If you have ideas to improve something why not share them?

Otherwise it is simply empty criticism

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #13)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:35 PM

69. Yes you are wrong

The video is vey clear.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:01 PM

12. go whine about it in the Lounge. GD is supposed to be sports free.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TeamPooka (Reply #12)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:05 PM

14. Was not aware of that rule. An unintentional foul!

LOL

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #14)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:15 PM

23. Yet it's still a foul.

See how that works?


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Iggo (Reply #23)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:16 PM

25. Never argued otherwise, in either case.

Reading is fundamental.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #25)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:19 PM

30. Jesus fuck, whatever.

I was being nice.

Thanks for the insult.

Have fun.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TeamPooka (Reply #12)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 06:12 PM

128. Not international events

or playoffs

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:09 PM

18. Her kick NEVER made contact with the ball.

If she had made contact, there would not have been a penalty kick. They checked the video carefully.

Players can't pretend they are kicking the ball when they are really just trying to illegally interfere in play. The rules are to help protect players and ensure they play the game, not physically intimidate each other.

And the ref missed another one during the first half, then turned around and yellow-carded a US player for doing the same thing one minute later.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ilsa (Reply #18)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:12 PM

20. Never said otherwise.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ilsa (Reply #18)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 06:46 PM

131. +1000

Thank you

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:12 PM

21. Sounds like Rollerball is more your game.

No penalties, no time limits, no substitutions.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MicaelS (Reply #21)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:16 PM

26. I didn't argue against penalties.

Reading is fundamental.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #26)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:23 PM

35. Soccer purists are the most arrogant of any sports fans.

They canít understand why many of us are bored as hell by it.
Just enjoy it. I don't Care that you do. Why do you care that I donít.

The only good thing about today is I hope it pissed off Trump that Rapinoe won. Her I like.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Funtatlaguy (Reply #35)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:31 PM

42. Good post. :)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Funtatlaguy (Reply #35)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:50 PM

49. I find soccer haters

To be the most whiny, petulant snowflakes. They can't wait for the one match every few years to appear on regular TV and bump their precious "American" sports for a couple hours, giving them the opportunity to cry over how boring soccer is and let everyone know it.

You may have been held "captive" at a sports bar, but no one forced you to watch anything. I regularly go to a sports bar for their chicken wings and I could not tell you a single thing going on one of their twenty TVs. I simply don't watch.

Now perhaps you were superglued to a seat facing a TV but no one forced you to go online and post your opinion about how boring you think the sport it. I would much rather go to the dentist everyday of March than watch a single minute of basketball. Yet I don't go around posting how banal I think the sport is and insulting the fans. I let them have their month, along with the other 8 months of NBA games, and find something constructive to do with my time. Maybe watch a football match...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sarisataka (Reply #49)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:00 PM

53. Well said!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sarisataka (Reply #49)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:10 PM

56. Petulant snowflakes?

LOL. I'm not the one crying because my sport has been criticized.

Enjoy your sport. It's quite OK to me that you do. My post was merely an explanation why I (and others I know) will never like it. In a nutshell: too much random stuff comprising too much of the outcome. Not a big enough percentage of the scoring by way of tactics.

And it's a real pity... because I've always WANTED to like it, but never could. And it could be so easily fixed but soccer "purists" will cry about that, too.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #56)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:42 PM

78. Who is crying

Only one that I see crying is about how a boring, randomly decided "sport" is allowed on their TV. If you don't like it, why did you watch it?

You claim that penalties too often decide games doesn't hold up statistically. Per FIFA, the 52 matches averaged 2.8 goals per game. The penalty average was .3 per game. I have not yet seen stats for how many were saved, not every PK results in a goal.

Again you hint you have the solution (usual ideas are along the lines of making the goals the size of a drive-in screen) but will keep it to yourself.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #56)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 04:24 PM

108. If you don't perceive the tactics involved, I'll wager you've never played the game,

let alone watched enough matches to understand it.

Myself, I find the constant stoppages in American football an immense turnoff. It looks mostly like an intermittent explosive brawl with the ball as an inconvenience, punctuated by lengthy breathers, rather than the flow of play you get in soccer and rugby and other ball sports. Not a problem - it's not on TV often where I am, I don't go out of my way to watch it, and if a post pops up here discussing a game, I'd just find something else to read or do. It may just be that I haven't watched it enough to understand the nuances, of course.

Whatever, well done to the US team for a hard-fought and exciting final match. They were deserving winners.

And if the low score is one of your gripes, if not for an absolutely stellar performance from the Netherlands' goalkeeper, it could easily have been 10-0.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sarisataka (Reply #49)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 03:25 PM

97. I do not care for most sports.

But I do not go posting how dumb they are. I just reconize what they are and what purpose they serve in the greater human condition. Let people have their pleasures and don't whine about it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MicaelS (Reply #97)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 05:38 PM

121. Seems a basic courtesy, doesn't it

Here is my post, #98, on the matter:


98. I find golf, American football, and bowling stultifyingly dull. A few others, too.

With this one exception right here, right now, I would NEVER go on a thread about these sports and complain about how much I didnít like them, let alone start one.

If others like/love them, why should I rain on their parade?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 3catwoman3 (Reply #121)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 08:27 PM

135. Agree 100%.

Although I used to like to bowl when I was younger.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MicaelS (Reply #135)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 08:51 PM

136. The last time I went bowling, I was 15.

That was also my score -

That might have something to do with why I donít care for it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 3catwoman3 (Reply #136)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 08:53 PM

137. Wow.

I think the best game I ever rolled was 150.

Had a custom ball and bag.

Did you ever try duckpins?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MicaelS (Reply #137)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 08:56 PM

138. The 15 was not a typo.

My surname is Ball, and I completely suck at any thing that requires any accuracy with one.

I used to be a pretty good dancer, however. I claim to be an esthete rather than an athlete.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:32 PM

44. Hard to appreciate a game where they play for a tie.

Just my opinion but I don't get it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:54 PM

52. Kicking a player is a foul.

There are 11 fouls that result in a direct kick, and thus if they happen in the penalty area, they result in a penalty kick. It's worked fine for a century.

A common mantra in referee training is that you can't read players' minds. You judge the action itself. Intent *can* be a factor, and it's addressed accordingly. Fouls done recklessly receive a yellow card, and fouls done with excessive force receive red.

Stop shitting on a sport lots of people love. Soccer bashing is so freaking old. Got any jokes about airline food while you're at it?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Music Man (Reply #52)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:04 PM

54. Read the thread.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #54)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:09 PM

55. I read every post.

Still not sure of your point other than soccer is not a real sport because penalty kicks can be consequential?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Music Man (Reply #52)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 04:38 PM

113. Thanks for using the word "recklessly".

That was the crux of why it was a foul, and worthy of a yellow card, and many who've replied here haven't picked up on it.

It was dangerous play. Players are entitled to go hard for the ball, and they may not always connect, but in the process you can't put the studs on your boots where they may well do another player harm, like around head level, for instance.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:22 PM

57. I'm guessing you don't watch much sport of any kind

The point is that putting your foot that high where the opposing player is going to be impedes them. That is "a foul". Basketball and American football, for instance, have similar rules, about what is or isn't a legal block or tackle.

"Trying very hard" is OK as a yardstick for a kickaround, but formal sport has formal rules.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #57)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:25 PM

59. Read the thread.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #59)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:29 PM

64. Hah - yes, it's not going very well for you, is it? (nt)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #64)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:33 PM

66. Like I've said multiple times, I never argued that it wasn't a penalty, or

that it shouldn't be a penalty.

You and others are arguing a strawman.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #66)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:38 PM

72. You tried to argue that she didn't raise her foot intentionally

which is a pretty bizarre thing to say about a professional athlete. Of course she did it on purpose. You don't get a reflex like that. You tried to dismiss it as "trying very hard". That's the kind of thing you might say to a 6 year old you're teaching the basics to, but it's hardly a sensible comment to make on an adult board.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #72)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:40 PM

74. Huh? No, I didn't. LOL

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #74)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:55 PM

82. Read the thread.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:27 PM

60. This was a clear foul

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Gothmog (Reply #60)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:31 PM

65. Read the thread.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #65)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:33 PM

67. This was a clear foul

I read the thread snd the video is clear

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Gothmog (Reply #67)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:35 PM

68. Yes, it was a clear foul. Already addressed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #68)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:36 PM

70. In the real world, intent is meaningless

You are wrong in your analysis

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Gothmog (Reply #70)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:39 PM

73. Haven't been wrong about anything.

I never argued that it wasn't a penalty.
I never argued that it shouldn't have been a penalty.
I never argued that intent should factor into a ref's decision on whether or not to call a penalty.

That's just you seeing what you want to see.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #73)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 03:04 PM

89. Denial is not just a river in Africa

The Danish player was very lucky not to get a red card

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Gothmog (Reply #89)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 03:05 PM

91. Red cards. LOL.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #91)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 04:22 PM

107. Under the rules for soccer, a red card is award for a flagrant foul

The Danish player could have been ejected due to this foul. That is how the rules work in the real world

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:28 PM

61. Sports penalties are not about intent. And penalties in all sports can decide the game

In this match, the US women dominated. The score could have easily been 5-0.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Buckeyeblue (Reply #61)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:29 PM

63. Read the thread.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #63)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:38 PM

71. LOL the thread does not support your claim

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Gothmog (Reply #71)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:41 PM

76. Oh? What's my claim? Be specific.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #76)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 03:01 PM

86. that a "cheap" goal was scored after a penalty you don't think deserves to be a penalty.

and because it could decide the contest (although in this case it didn't) soccer doesn't deserve to be a sport

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to onenote (Reply #86)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 03:04 PM

90. Wrong. I never claimed that it didn't deserve a penalty.

But, yes, it was a cheap goal.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #90)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 03:06 PM

92. Asking again: are penalty shots/shootout goals in hockey "cheap"?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to onenote (Reply #92)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 03:10 PM

94. Certainly not as cheap as what I witnessed today.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #94)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 04:02 PM

102. And why was it "cheaper" than a hockey penalty shot or shoot out goal?

And what about foul shots -- was it cheaper than a foul shot in basketball?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #90)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 03:07 PM

93. do you think it deserves to be a penalty when someone makes conduct as in this instance

without intent to commit a foul?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to onenote (Reply #93)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 03:12 PM

95. Already answered: YES

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:40 PM

75. The USA women's soccer team is the best in the world.

Appreciate quality when you see it. That's a special team.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to IluvPitties (Reply #75)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:41 PM

77. Agree.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:45 PM

79. It has game changing penalties like any other sport

Not sure why you question its status as sport because of that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bradical79 (Reply #79)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:48 PM

80. No, it's not like other sports.

It's so sparse on tactics that penalties too often play an inordinate role in the outcomes.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #80)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:55 PM

83. I've watched plenty of football games where penalties have played a significant role in the outcomes

Holding penalties that kill drives. Pass interference penalties that put a team in scoring position. Face mask penalties or defensive holding calls that keep drives alive. A significant number of scoring drives are impacted by penalties and the same is true for many non-scoring drives.

In basketball, foul shots often can represent the margin of victory, as can power play or penalty shots in hockey.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to onenote (Reply #83)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 03:02 PM

88. And if penalties didn't play such a significant role..

...then there would be no reason to not wreck someone every time they get into scoring range.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #80)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:57 PM

84. Still don't see it that differently

Many hockey games are determined by power play goals, NFL penalties often derail potential scoring drives multiple times a game (or hands the other team a score), in the NBA free throw shooting is often the difference between winning amd losing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #80)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 05:57 PM

123. Football is massively tactical.

Your ignorance of the game is stunning but do carry on.

Oh and the rules regarding penalty kicks are absolutely necessary or the defense would just knock down any player near their goal.

The American were dominating on offense and the Dutch team was getting desperate on defense. That desperation led directly to the high foot that caused a penalty kick.

It didnít change the outcome, it was the inevitable result of the situation the Dutch were in.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Voltaire2 (Reply #123)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 06:04 PM

124. No, soccer is not massively tactical.

Especially in comparison to football.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #124)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 06:08 PM

126. Right.

As noted.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:48 PM

81. The referee made the correct call and the VAR backed her up

I think your complaint is really about the fact that officiating soccer isn't the same as officiating American football, am I right?

Secondly Megan Rapinoe's penalty kick was not a "cheap goal." She's their ace-in-the-hole winner, their bring-it-home star player.

The American team played awesomely both offense and defense. The Dutch team was also great but they didn't get as many chances to score in this game. There were very few mistakes or bad calls that I could see. The Netherlands team can hold their heads high, they played a great game and they got beat today.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:59 PM

85. question for the OP: are penalty and shootout goals in hockey "cheap"?

Are points scored on foul shots in basketball "cheap"

(Heck at least in soccer and hockey there is a defender).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 03:27 PM

98. I find golf, American football, and bowling stultifyingly dull. A few others, too.

With this one exception right here, right now, I would NEVER go on a thread about these sports and complain about how much I didnít like them, let alone start one.

If others like/love them, why should I rain on their parade?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to 3catwoman3 (Reply #98)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 03:31 PM

99. So?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 03:52 PM

100. Well, if you are a destination rather than a journey person

I get it. You donít appreciate process. You want results in the form of scoring.

Itís kind of like having kids. You can either spend your time enjoying the moments of ongoing growth, or you can spend your time reveling or despairing over their achievements or lack thereof...

Soccer is a life game and Iím sorry you donít appreciate its nuances...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 04:01 PM

101. It's a real bad day for Trump fans.

Don't you think?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kingofalldems (Reply #101)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 04:06 PM

104. Well, I certainly enjoyed the chants from the French bar. LOL

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 04:13 PM

105. That has the definition of a high kick

And it was in the penalty box.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 04:22 PM

106. I presume nobody is making you to watch it.

If you don't like the game, you don't have to watch it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LisaL (Reply #106)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 04:33 PM

110. You don't say.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 04:29 PM

109. Rubbish... Seriously



That's part of the game... Like penalties in any sport

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 04:36 PM

111. I cannot stand baseball or basketball

So I just don't watch them. Easy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Marrah_Goodman (Reply #111)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 04:38 PM

114. Good for you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 04:36 PM

112. The rules of U.S.A. "football" are surrealistically arcane in comparison.

U.S.A. football reminds me of the first time I played cricket as a displaced teen in another land, when all I could think is:

is happening here?

U.S.A. football was a mystery to me until I started watching games like the Superbowl with my father-in-law.

I have a sister who is a "soccer" amazon, she's been playing and coaching for half a century, so maybe I'm prejudiced.

The only team sport I've ever any competency at was recreational co-ed softball. Sometimes when I'd hit the ball it would go fast and far, and whenever I was running hard, in the field or around the bases, nobody wanted to get in the way of the big crazy eyed klutz wearing glasses.






Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hunter (Reply #112)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 04:42 PM

115. The planning, elements, tactics, positioning, specialization in warfare are complex.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #115)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 04:44 PM

116. I'm a pacifist. Not by natural inclination, but by necessity.

War is stupid.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hunter (Reply #116)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 04:46 PM

117. I agree that war is stupid.

But games are not.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Reply #117)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 06:21 PM

130. I was a member of a high school chess club.

Pretty good too, second or third, sometimes fourth ranking, we try harder.

Yet my physically and intellectually reckless younger brother would destroy me in chess and he never joined a chess club. He's successful in a way I was not. And in his youth he was an occasional bone-breaking terror in physical blood sports. He plays a damned fine game of golf too.

I introduced our oldest kid to chess, and my wife and I encouraged high school sports, with success, but oldest kid decided it was all boring, graduated from prestigious college, got married, owns house of higher value than our own in left coast urban California, travels the world before age thirty.

My wife and I bought our first house in our twenties, but it was in the rustbelt Midwest and cost a little less than $8,000. We live in a California place where I sometimes bitch about gang graffiti on our back wall as I paint it over.

Our children, nephews, and nieces are all ferocious, in games and the "real" world, and I think that's what the U.S.A. is supposed to be about -- that the next generation does better than you.

My father-in-law was born in a tent in a Mexican farm labor camp a few hundred meters from a small orchard my parents used to own. My wife and I, who met having escaped rural and suburban California hell to the Big City, knew nothing of this until we were irrevocably engaged.

I don't have anything nice to say about games or game theory.

The universe doesn't care.

My ancestors were largely pacifist religious dissidents who came to the U.S.A. in the eighteenth and nineteenth century because they didn't want to play those games, and the remaining were just out ahead of the English hangman.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 05:08 PM

118. As a general note to everyone (because a lot of people have gotten this wrong):

The foul that was called is not "dangerous play" or "high kick." The specific foul was that the player kicked Alex Morgan.

The additional fact that it was so high makes it a reckless foul and is thus a yellow card.

Dangerous play in itself (such as a high kick that does not actually make contact with the opponent) is an indirect free kick, and anything that would result in an indirect free kick doesn't result in a penalty kick, even if it's in the penalty area. It would be an indirect kick from the spot where the offense occurred. Only the 11 penal fouls that would result in a direct free kick can be penalty kicks (as a penalty kick is a form of direct free kick).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 05:50 PM

122. USA won 2-0.

your complaint is moot.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 06:06 PM

125. Oh and it was a stunningly good kick.

I know Rapinoe made it look easy, but that was an awesome bit of misdirection she executed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 06:11 PM

127. I'm suspicious of anyone who hates all sports. It's weird. Sorry

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 06:53 PM

132. If you dont like soccer then why watch it then share your ignorance?

Asinine.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 08:04 PM

134. Oh spare us...

If you don't like football then don't criticise what you don't understand.

It wasn't a 'cheap goal'. It was part of the game. You kick another player recklessly, you get a yellow card and the other team gets a penalty kick.

In sports, there are rules and when you break the rules and get caught, you get penalised.

We go through life with rules. Calling the goal a 'cheap goal' is like calling a vehicular homicide an accident. Rules in sport, as in life are there for a reason.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Goodheart (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 08:58 PM

140. "cheap goal" ??

That was a beautiful skillful penalty shot beating one of the best goalies in the world.

Scoring as a result of a penalty is a significant part of every sport.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread