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Sun Jul 7, 2019, 12:24 PM

Justice Department lawyers may soon pay a high price for lying to the courts

ACLU filed a "remarkable" brief in federal court on Friday: drumpf's Justice Department entangled itself in an entirely different web of deceit. Additionally, the brief references a forthcoming motion for sanctions against the government attorneys who litigated this case. In addition to the lie about the citizenship question -- in which the Trump administration implausibly claimed that it added the question to aid Voting Rights Act enforcement -- they also lied about the deadline for printing census forms.

According to a Think Progress story published on Sunday, July 7,
While the New York case was making its way through the courts, the Justice Department repeatedly made another claim that turns out to be false (or, at the very least, that the Trump administration itself now claims to be false). The ACLU brief filed on Friday lists twelve separate occasions where Trump administration lawyers claimed that “the census forms must be finalized for printing by the end of June 2019.”

Because of this claim by Trump’s Justice Department, courts processed this case on an unusually expedited basis. Among other things, the Supreme Court invoked a rarely used procedure that bypassed review by a federal appeals court and allowed the nation’s highest court to review a trial court’s decision directly.

Not long after the Trump administration lost in the Supreme Court, however, it started singing a different tune. Though Justice Department lawyers initially signaled that they were giving up the fight to defend the citizenship question, they were later contradicted by President Trump himself. On July 3, they told a federal judge that they’ve been “instructed to examine whether there is a path forward, consistent with the Supreme Court’s decision, that would allow us to include the citizenship question on the census.”


In their brief, the ACLU invokes a doctrine known as “judicial estoppel”: essentially the Justice Department should be held to its previous claims about a June deadline. “'Estoppel' doctrines prevent parties from making one claim, then contradicting themselves when that claim proves disadvantageous."

The story also includes a link to the ACLU brief, which is worth reading.

This should be at the top of the news for the next few days. OK, OK: USA beat the Netherlands in the World Cup. Yay!

But after that story, this one should be the most prominent.

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Arrow 53 replies Author Time Post
Reply Justice Department lawyers may soon pay a high price for lying to the courts (Original post)
Fritz Walter Jul 2019 OP
tblue37 Jul 2019 #1
Skraxx Jul 2019 #2
bucolic_frolic Jul 2019 #11
Skraxx Jul 2019 #53
TheBlackAdder Jul 2019 #14
Fritz Walter Jul 2019 #20
TheBlackAdder Jul 2019 #22
trev Jul 2019 #34
Skraxx Jul 2019 #52
TeamPooka Jul 2019 #3
StarfishSaver Jul 2019 #4
Scurrilous Jul 2019 #5
Martin Eden Jul 2019 #6
Roland99 Jul 2019 #7
onetexan Jul 2019 #10
MFGsunny Jul 2019 #8
gristy Jul 2019 #9
Ligyron Jul 2019 #21
dixiegrrrrl Jul 2019 #39
calimary Jul 2019 #43
sinkingfeeling Jul 2019 #12
dsc Jul 2019 #30
smirkymonkey Jul 2019 #13
Ponietz Jul 2019 #15
pecosbob Jul 2019 #16
KY_EnviroGuy Jul 2019 #23
yortsed snacilbuper Jul 2019 #17
FakeNoose Jul 2019 #18
elleng Jul 2019 #33
calimary Jul 2019 #44
real Cannabis calm Jul 2019 #19
BlueIdaho Jul 2019 #24
RestoreAmerica2020 Jul 2019 #25
perdita9 Jul 2019 #26
Thomas Hurt Jul 2019 #27
elleng Jul 2019 #32
They_Live Jul 2019 #28
onecaliberal Jul 2019 #29
elleng Jul 2019 #31
Delmette2.0 Jul 2019 #35
Gothmog Jul 2019 #36
marble falls Jul 2019 #37
LiberalLovinLug Jul 2019 #38
Grasswire2 Jul 2019 #40
Sherman A1 Jul 2019 #41
Hotler Jul 2019 #42
RobertDevereaux Jul 2019 #45
Gothmog Jul 2019 #46
saidsimplesimon Jul 2019 #47
Gothmog Jul 2019 #48
Fritz Walter Jul 2019 #50
Gothmog Jul 2019 #49
Gothmog Jul 2019 #51

Response to Fritz Walter (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 12:27 PM

1. K&R for visibility. nt

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Response to Fritz Walter (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 12:30 PM

2. ACLU Has THE BEST Lawyers, for real, vs Trumps Clown Car

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Response to Skraxx (Reply #2)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 12:54 PM

11. Where would we be without ACLU?

they are litigating everything, no hesitation, no quit, no errors

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Response to bucolic_frolic (Reply #11)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 08:11 AM

53. I Don't Know and I Don't Want To Know, It Would Be Worse Than Now, And That's Hard to Imagine

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Response to Skraxx (Reply #2)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:04 PM

14. Yes they do. For those who haven't yet, please set up a monthly donation plan with them.

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Response to TheBlackAdder (Reply #14)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:38 PM

20. I promise: I will donate.

I donated to them last year, and a couple weeks ago they sent me a reminder to renew my gift. Due to my personal cash-flow issues at the time, I ignored it. Will call them Monday morning and specifically mention this case when I renew.

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Response to Fritz Walter (Reply #20)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:44 PM

22. Awesome! It can be small, just to get in the groove, say $5/month. Then increase when ready.

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Response to TheBlackAdder (Reply #14)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 03:23 PM

34. I'm a longtime donor. :). nt

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Response to TheBlackAdder (Reply #14)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 08:10 AM

52. Yes!! EVERYONE DO THIS PLEASE!!!

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Response to Fritz Walter (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 12:31 PM

3. k&r

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Response to Fritz Walter (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 12:31 PM

4. This is a VERY important story

Thanks for posting it!

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Response to Fritz Walter (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 12:32 PM

5. K&R

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Response to Fritz Walter (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 12:35 PM

6. I just hope we don't get unjust rulings from biased Rethug-appointed judges

Trump has been packing the courts. A flawed ruling can be appealed, but a safe harbor for that is needed.

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Response to Martin Eden (Reply #6)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 12:40 PM

7. Judge Hazel's ruling the other day was a smack down to Twitler's case

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Response to Roland99 (Reply #7)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 12:53 PM

10. Smackdown in deed K&R

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Response to Fritz Walter (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 12:41 PM

8. K & R for visibility .... n/t

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Response to Fritz Walter (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 12:48 PM

9. The things I learn on DU!

In their brief, the ACLU invokes a doctrine known as “judicial estoppel”: essentially the Justice Department should be held to its previous claims about a June deadline. “'Estoppel' doctrines prevent parties from making one claim, then contradicting themselves when that claim proves disadvantageous."

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Response to gristy (Reply #9)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:38 PM

21. Didn't Roberts basically tell them to go back and dream up another reason?

If so, that just flat out encourages being disingenuous.

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Response to gristy (Reply #9)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 07:29 PM

39. That should be a requirement for any Trump related suits.


I've never seen such lying, at every level, since this faux administration.

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Response to gristy (Reply #9)

Mon Jul 8, 2019, 09:52 AM

43. Yep. I learned that for the first time, too.

I learn all kinds of good and useful things here.

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Response to Fritz Walter (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:02 PM

12. The ACLU has better lawyers than DOJ.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Reply #12)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:43 PM

30. maybe or maybe not

but what they definitely have are clients who aren't lying. If you lie to your lawyer then you can have Perry Mason and you still are going to be in big trouble.

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Response to Fritz Walter (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:04 PM

13. K&R

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Response to Fritz Walter (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:05 PM

15. One can plead alternative theories but not alternative facts

Pleading facts in the alternative merits contempt.

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Response to Fritz Walter (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:09 PM

16. Laudable effort by the ACLU but in effect we're back to where we were after the Mueller Report

Last edited Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:45 PM - Edit history (1)

...if an “ordinary litigant” engaged in the conduct DOJ engaged in here, “sanctions would be the minimum relief provided.”

Isn't the DOJ's privilege to lie in court and before Congress the hallmark of all GOP administrations?

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Response to pecosbob (Reply #16)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:59 PM

23. The GOP calls it "creating our own reality" and it wins some elections.

Thank goodness most courts will not fall for their bullshit.

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Response to Fritz Walter (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:17 PM

17. O, what a tangled web we weave when first we practise to deceive!

Walter Scott

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Response to Fritz Walter (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:33 PM

18. This is BIG! I believe the federal judiciary will support this 100%

... right up to SCOTUS. Federal judges - regardless of their party affiliation - do not want to be connected with the taint of Chump. Our federal judges aren't stupid, and the vast majority believe in their pledge to uphold the Constitution.

Let these DOJ toadies take responsibility for their partisan lies.

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Response to FakeNoose (Reply #18)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 03:12 PM

33. YES

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Response to FakeNoose (Reply #18)

Mon Jul 8, 2019, 09:53 AM

44. Well, let's hope so.

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Response to Fritz Walter (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:34 PM

19. recommended to publicize

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Response to Fritz Walter (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:08 PM

24. Bill Barr's No-Justice Department

Will go down in history as one of the most criminal enterprises in US history. When we restore order in the federal government, there needs to be a reckoning...

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Response to Fritz Walter (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:09 PM

25. Great post. Thanks for link, judicial estoppel info.;ACLU has been

..at the forefront on issues--now looking at their online on site on how to support their efforts.

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Response to Fritz Walter (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:15 PM

26. Thank you for posting

I am distraught at the failure of so many of our American institutions. The dishonesty in the Justice department has been particularly galling. Let's hope the courts hold someone responsible for these deplorable actions.

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Response to Fritz Walter (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:17 PM

27. Anyone know what Bar oversees these attorneys and wtf aren't there complaints against them.

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Response to Thomas Hurt (Reply #27)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 03:11 PM

32. States by which they've been admitted to practice 'oversee.'

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Response to Fritz Walter (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:35 PM

28. k & r n/t

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Response to Fritz Walter (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 02:38 PM

29. K&R

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Response to Fritz Walter (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 03:08 PM

31. EXCELLENT!

While I don't want to get ahead of myself OR the news OR the process, it is necessary that we (attorneys AND we the people) 'encourage' the Department of Justice to be HONEST, so fine that ACLU's doing this. I may add a few $ to my ACLU allotment.

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Response to Fritz Walter (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 03:24 PM

35. I have hope the the Supreme Court Justices will be just pissed enough

that 45 said he could overrule Congress and them with an Executive Order.

Now I'm sending a donation to ACLU!

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Response to Fritz Walter (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 03:31 PM

36. Courts hate it when lawyers lie in open court proceedings

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Response to Fritz Walter (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 04:18 PM

37. Their big shit wheel is slowly being ground to a stop.

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Response to Fritz Walter (Original post)

Sun Jul 7, 2019, 05:08 PM

38. "'Estoppel' doctrines" It sounds like what the average Republican breaks every day Trump especially

“'Estoppel' doctrines prevent parties from making one claim, then contradicting themselves when that claim proves disadvantageous."

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Response to Fritz Walter (Original post)

Mon Jul 8, 2019, 01:17 AM

40. today is a good day to donate to the ACLU..

...lend your voice to the cause of liberty!

www.aclu.org

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Response to Fritz Walter (Original post)

Mon Jul 8, 2019, 05:24 AM

41. K&R

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Response to Fritz Walter (Original post)

Mon Jul 8, 2019, 09:44 AM

42. The ACLU fights for everyone. Please donate today. nt

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Response to Hotler (Reply #42)

Mon Jul 8, 2019, 11:30 AM

45. Automatic donation every month...

Both to ACLU and to Planned Parenthood.

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Response to Fritz Walter (Original post)

Mon Jul 8, 2019, 11:44 AM

46. From Prof. Tribe

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Response to Fritz Walter (Original post)

Mon Jul 8, 2019, 12:08 PM

47. I stand with the ACLU.

Dump rump, a criminal and unAmerican fool

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Response to Fritz Walter (Original post)

Mon Jul 8, 2019, 02:04 PM

48. Washington Post-Opinion: Trump's corruption is getting worse.




The Justice Department just announced that it will swap out the lawyers who are representing the administration in the legal battle over the effort to add a citizenship question to the 2020 Census. This battle continues because Trump ordered the administration to keep fighting to add the question, even though officials had surrendered after the Supreme Court ruled against it.

As The Post reports, the change in the legal team might signal “legal or ethical concerns” about Trump’s handling of the affair. One source said such concerns were harbored by some “career attorneys.”

It gets worse. A Justice Department lawyer tells the New York Times that due to the switch, no lawyers from the division that defends administration policies in court — the federal programs branch — will be working on the case.

The Times adds that the move strongly suggests that career lawyers “decided to quit a case that at the least seemed to lack a legal basis,” or worse, could force them to defend statements that “could well turn out to be untrue.”

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #48)

Mon Jul 8, 2019, 03:00 PM

50. So, when rats desert a sinking ship, they bring on more rats?

Or at least re-assign other rodents still on board?

Thanks for the update.

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Response to Fritz Walter (Original post)

Mon Jul 8, 2019, 02:57 PM

49. Sometimes a Justice Department lawyer must just say 'no'

From the Washington Post https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/07/08/somtimes-doj-lawyer-must-just-say-no/?utm_term=.8047534f232a

Mimi Rocah, a former prosecutor, surmises: “There are DOJ lawyers not willing to lose their integrity with the courts for Trump. I’m proud to see that. And judges will notice too.”

Others agree that swapping out lawyers is highly unusual. “It’s extraordinary and downright bizarre to see the government parachute in new lawyers at this late stage of the litigation,” says legal scholar Joshua Matz. “If past is prologue, this may indicate that we’re about to see some extremely sketchy moves that the existing team was unwilling to take for professional or reputational reasons.” That the administration would have to go so far afield, to recruit consumer protection lawyers, “suggests that the entire federal programs branch of the Justice Department is unwilling to defend whatever the administration plans to file.”

This is not the first time in this presidency a set of lawyers has dropped out of a case brought on specious grounds. In the case seeking to invalidate the entire Affordable Care Act, three career attorneys withdrew without signing onto a brief many considered legally preposterous.....

Not to put too fine a point on it, but what these lawyers do will have profound consequences for the country and their careers. Constitutional scholar Larry Tribe warns, “The Department of Justice cannot avoid the long-term credibility cost to its litigating posture of contradicting itself in successive filings simply by changing the names of the career DOJ lawyers on the pleadings or by bringing new faces into court. If that’s the aspiration, it’s not going to succeed.”

The new team of lawyers should think very carefully before accepting an assignment from an attorney general not above misrepresenting the work of a special counsel or adopting the role of the president’s private counsel.

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Response to Fritz Walter (Original post)

Mon Jul 8, 2019, 09:06 PM

51. These attorneys may not be allowed to withdraw

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