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StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
Tue Jul 23, 2019, 07:40 AM Jul 2019

Did I miss the "Do Republicans risk making total asses of themselves" at Mueller hearing stories?

Because all I see are "Do the Democrats risk overplaying their hands?" and "Will the Democrats perform absolutely perfectly in every way and if they don't, how much self-inflicted damage will they suffer?" stories - even though we all know the Republicans are going behave like complete fools, and do their best to turn the hearing into a circus and preventing the public from gathering any information.

Did I miss all the stories putting any responsibility on or raising questions about the Republican committee members?

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Did I miss the "Do Republicans risk making total asses of themselves" at Mueller hearing stories? (Original Post) StarfishSaver Jul 2019 OP
Haven't you heard? deminks Jul 2019 #1
Yes, and wryter2000 Jul 2019 #3
You should add a sarcasm smilie StarfishSaver Jul 2019 #7
Gawd, really? wryter2000 Jul 2019 #9
One would hope, wouldn't one? StarfishSaver Jul 2019 #10
when and where? Hermit-The-Prog Jul 2019 #19
A thread I posted in last night wryter2000 Jul 2019 #23
she's said the opposite Hermit-The-Prog Jul 2019 #39
I believe the subject of this thread is tosh Jul 2019 #64
Correct wryter2000 Jul 2019 #67
I totally agree wryter2000 Jul 2019 #66
And forming a circular firing squad. ananda Jul 2019 #16
Where are you getting your news? watoos Jul 2019 #2
It's helpful if you read the OPs before responding to them StarfishSaver Jul 2019 #6
"Do the Democrats risk overplaying their hands?" watoos Jul 2019 #14
No links of course Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2019 #26
Suddenly Cetacea Jul 2019 #52
Do you have something you'd like to say to me. StarfishSaver Jul 2019 #57
Yes Cetacea Jul 2019 #59
Good one C ! There are common tacks...trust Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2019 #65
Speaking of "common tacks" StarfishSaver Jul 2019 #69
Touched a nerve? Well done! Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2019 #70
That's no fun. SouthernProgressive Jul 2019 #17
I watched a clip of Mueller and Gym True Blue American Jul 2019 #45
We will know when both Barr and Trump feel inclined to comment on it... kentuck Jul 2019 #4
If Muller follows the DOJ memo he likely won't be able to respond to any of thei GOP nonsense. Raven123 Jul 2019 #5
You nailed it....they will be hoisted on their own Petard ashredux Jul 2019 #13
I predict first half hour Republicans Watchfoxheadexplodes Jul 2019 #8
There is a good chance it will be chaotic. kentuck Jul 2019 #12
I agree with both of you. We're going to see some procedural gymnastics. Pacifist Patriot Jul 2019 #15
i think the republican plan is sound rampartc Jul 2019 #11
He's been instructed to not address anything that's not in Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2019 #29
the current special prosecutor law was passed in reaction to ken starr's witch hunt rampartc Jul 2019 #35
The memo was done by Office of Legal Counsel under Nixon, updated under Clinton StarfishSaver Jul 2019 #37
Jordan tried just that in the clip I watched. mueller cut him short True Blue American Jul 2019 #46
There are no such stories-- we all know the Republicans will make speeches and then... TreasonousBastard Jul 2019 #18
tv "news" is not balanced Hermit-The-Prog Jul 2019 #20
One small edit mac56 Jul 2019 #50
And Pelosi is the only person that can check Trump. Because Mitch McConnell doesn't exist. lostnfound Jul 2019 #21
Everything is always Democrats fault mcar Jul 2019 #22
But we don't seem to have any plan in action to combat Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2019 #30
I think the messaging on this issue is pretty unified mcar Jul 2019 #41
you may have missed this ... Hermit-The-Prog Jul 2019 #42
3+ months late...almost not worth a " better late than never" Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2019 #62
We don't belong to an organized party treestar Jul 2019 #44
Truest statement yet!! Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2019 #49
Come on, People...Do We Really Think Mueller Will Even Show Up...? The_Counsel Jul 2019 #24
He showed up for Vietnam watoos Jul 2019 #25
The Democrats have already "put their minds" to it and backed it up with legislation StarfishSaver Jul 2019 #27
Yes, only thing they can do...since we've been played Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2019 #32
You are aware being a constitutional scholar, watoos Jul 2019 #51
Yes, I know that I also know that they have just as good StarfishSaver Jul 2019 #56
Now you are making me wonder about you, watoos Jul 2019 #72
You can wonder all you like StarfishSaver Jul 2019 #77
I hope to be surprised. gordianot Jul 2019 #28
There Wasn't a Rogue Administration Telling Him NOT to Show Up at Vietnam, Though... The_Counsel Jul 2019 #36
I will ponder this while I wash socks. By the time rzemanfl Jul 2019 #53
I See What You Did There.... The_Counsel Jul 2019 #55
You're the first. rzemanfl Jul 2019 #61
Well sure they are, they can't help themselves. I loved the way ... marble falls Jul 2019 #31
Wow! That was great. When was this? Yikes we Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2019 #34
Jul 12, 2018, Gowdy was annointed to serve Strzok up. The whole ... marble falls Jul 2019 #40
This day inspired my favorite-ever meme, falls: Leghorn21 Jul 2019 #47
The best "after" photo evah! marble falls Jul 2019 #48
+1000 Cetacea Jul 2019 #60
Did I miss the "Governors urge GOP 2000 (or 2002/2004/2006) field not to veer too far right"? lostnfound Jul 2019 #33
Nope. Only Dems are responsible for policing bad behavior Takket Jul 2019 #38
Republicans will, again, show their asses, but... Grins Jul 2019 #43
I really do have to wash socks. BBL. n/t rzemanfl Jul 2019 #54
Hear ya. Thought I heard they were modifying the Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2019 #63
Dems actually held practice sessions for the hearing, watoos Jul 2019 #73
No...because the "liberal media" has been the CONSERVATIVE PRESS all along. nt Baltimike Jul 2019 #58
Would be nice to hear that angle on the contest brought up. gulliver Jul 2019 #68
Two words: Louie Gomert. JohnnyRingo Jul 2019 #71
Matt Gaetz pretty reliably makes an ass of himself, too. Vinca Jul 2019 #74
Kick ck4829 Jul 2019 #75
I expect total ass rethuglicons to remain consistent and act like total asses. democratisphere Jul 2019 #76
i'll continue to hold dems accountable bc its all we have. You're welcome. Kurt V. Jul 2019 #78

wryter2000

(46,016 posts)
3. Yes, and
Tue Jul 23, 2019, 07:46 AM
Jul 2019

Nancy Pelosi has taken impeachment off the table, which means she's dumb, even though she's usually so smart.

wryter2000

(46,016 posts)
23. A thread I posted in last night
Tue Jul 23, 2019, 09:10 AM
Jul 2019

That said exactly that. I'm on a Kindle with no easy way to cut and paste, so I can't provide a link.

Hermit-The-Prog

(33,041 posts)
39. she's said the opposite
Tue Jul 23, 2019, 10:12 AM
Jul 2019

If you use your favorite search engine to search for "pelosi impeachment off the table" (without the quotes), you will find where she has said that it is NOT off the table, just not ripe yet.

I get the following as the first hit from duckduckgo.com, but can't view CNN videos:

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/06/11/nancy-pelosi-trump-impeachment-raju-intv-nr-vpx.cnn

Article about the above interview:
https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/11/politics/impeachment-democrats-pelosi/index.html


tosh

(4,422 posts)
64. I believe the subject of this thread is
Tue Jul 23, 2019, 05:43 PM
Jul 2019

"what the media is saying", not "what Speaker Pelosi said/is saying" -

wryter2000

(46,016 posts)
67. Correct
Tue Jul 23, 2019, 08:28 PM
Jul 2019

I’m sorry I was off the internet for so long and couldn’t clarify.

Actually, I was quoting what some at DU were saying.

wryter2000

(46,016 posts)
66. I totally agree
Tue Jul 23, 2019, 08:24 PM
Jul 2019

I didn’t use the sarcasm smilie. I didn’t think I had to. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

watoos

(7,142 posts)
2. Where are you getting your news?
Tue Jul 23, 2019, 07:46 AM
Jul 2019

I have absolutely zero worries about Robert Mueller handling Gym Jordan. Sophomoric attacks on Robert Mueller will surely backfire.

On the other hand, Dems better come prepared. Mueller will not volunteer information but he is a truth teller.
What questions and how they are asked by Democrats will make or break the hearing.

Cetacea

(7,367 posts)
59. Yes
Tue Jul 23, 2019, 04:39 PM
Jul 2019

What inspired your user name? Mine is a nod to dolphins and whales. Is yours a nod to starfish? Or the company?
I'll PM you my other question.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
65. Good one C ! There are common tacks...trust
Tue Jul 23, 2019, 05:55 PM
Jul 2019

Nancy, attack messenger if supporting impeachment in news, and anyone for impeachment is frantic and hates Nancy.

Would love to see a real analysis of why we didn't and shouldn't.


 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
69. Speaking of "common tacks"
Tue Jul 23, 2019, 10:26 PM
Jul 2019

Another tack is using "mean girl' stage whispers to try to make points that can't hold up in a direct interaction with the people being discussed in the side conversations being conducted in plain view.

A little odd to see this tactic used by adults on a political discussion board, but, given other things I've been seeing here, it's no longer surprising.

kentuck

(110,950 posts)
4. We will know when both Barr and Trump feel inclined to comment on it...
Tue Jul 23, 2019, 07:47 AM
Jul 2019

They won't comment if they feel there was no damage done.

Raven123

(4,716 posts)
5. If Muller follows the DOJ memo he likely won't be able to respond to any of thei GOP nonsense.
Tue Jul 23, 2019, 07:48 AM
Jul 2019

The “4 corners” of the Mueller Report does not contain fiction

Pacifist Patriot

(24,647 posts)
15. I agree with both of you. We're going to see some procedural gymnastics.
Tue Jul 23, 2019, 08:21 AM
Jul 2019

They are going to do everything possible to prevent or control his testimony.

rampartc

(5,271 posts)
11. i think the republican plan is sound
Tue Jul 23, 2019, 07:54 AM
Jul 2019

they are throwing their partisan brer rabbit into the briar patch.

if they are not total idiots (always a possibility) and if the dems follow mueller into the rabbit hole, trump will come out (apparently) "exonerated."

1. is it possible that someone other than the Russian government interfered in the election? and that since mueller was limited to the "collusion" with the Russian government ……..

2. if the department policy were not to "never indict the president" upon which crimes, if not conspiracy with the Russians, would mueller have indicted?

I had to use double negatives in this reply because that is the way all of this will be framed. if the dems can't simplify this into straightforward English we are laughing stock into the 2000 elections.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
29. He's been instructed to not address anything that's not in
Tue Jul 23, 2019, 09:41 AM
Jul 2019

Report. So wonder how he will handle. Like your great second question. He would likely say it's hypothetical..but will he say he can't comment? I would love to ask him, who decides on the policy itself? Only the AG? What does the ethics committee do? How were things different under Sessions? If at all.

rampartc

(5,271 posts)
35. the current special prosecutor law was passed in reaction to ken starr's witch hunt
Tue Jul 23, 2019, 09:54 AM
Jul 2019

the process that trump calls a "witch hunt" is determined by statute to never find or report any actual "witches."

I think that indictment business is just a legal memo from the atty general (probably Ashcroft or Gonzalez.)

True Blue American

(17,972 posts)
46. Jordan tried just that in the clip I watched. mueller cut him short
Tue Jul 23, 2019, 12:17 PM
Jul 2019

By saying that was before the Special Counsel investigation.

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
18. There are no such stories-- we all know the Republicans will make speeches and then...
Tue Jul 23, 2019, 08:32 AM
Jul 2019

ask lightweight "questions".

The real questions are about whether or not the Democrats will line up and do some serious questioning.

Hermit-The-Prog

(33,041 posts)
20. tv "news" is not balanced
Tue Jul 23, 2019, 08:42 AM
Jul 2019

Tv promotes that which gets eyeballs, advertisers, deregulation and tax breaks.


Maybe things like the FTC, FCC, and the Sherman Anti-trust Act really are important.


mac56

(17,561 posts)
50. One small edit
Tue Jul 23, 2019, 02:32 PM
Jul 2019

Time Warner is now Warner Media, owned by AT&T. Time Magazine is now owned by Marc Benioff.

Carry on.

lostnfound

(16,139 posts)
21. And Pelosi is the only person that can check Trump. Because Mitch McConnell doesn't exist.
Tue Jul 23, 2019, 08:58 AM
Jul 2019

If trump implements nightly sacrifices of immigrant children on the steps and balconies of the White House, they will say, “it’s all up to Pelosi now”.

Yes I know impeachment starts in the house but that’s not the point. McConnell will fade into the woodwork and his name never mentioned by the media. He has stolen the invisibility cloak from Harry Potter, and is held to ZERO standards or account by the media.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
30. But we don't seem to have any plan in action to combat
Tue Jul 23, 2019, 09:44 AM
Jul 2019

do we? No unified messaging. No organized rebuttal to trump sleeze. No ads.

mcar

(42,210 posts)
41. I think the messaging on this issue is pretty unified
Tue Jul 23, 2019, 10:15 AM
Jul 2019

I focus my blame on Republicans and the MSM. Others choose to bash Democrats. YMMV.

 

watoos

(7,142 posts)
25. He showed up for Vietnam
Tue Jul 23, 2019, 09:21 AM
Jul 2019

and went back to get his wounded soldiers.

Sorry, I apologize, but I am not in favor of people attacking Robert Mueller.

He did his job in Vietnam and as special prosecutor. All we have seen is a redacted version of his report. Democrats have the means to get the entire report and the grand jury testimony if they put their minds to it.

 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
27. The Democrats have already "put their minds" to it and backed it up with legislation
Tue Jul 23, 2019, 09:35 AM
Jul 2019

They have laid the groundwork to request the unredacted report and the grand jury materials.

It's a process and they're putting the pieces into place. It's not as satisfying as the Perry Mason moments some people fantasize - and it conflicts with the "Democrats aren't doing a damned thing because Nancy Pelosi took impeachment off the table" drumbeat of attacks - but it's the only way to do it if they actually want to obtain them.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
32. Yes, only thing they can do...since we've been played
Tue Jul 23, 2019, 09:47 AM
Jul 2019

big time. We are now bogged down in Trump's main MO...tie things up in the courts.

 

watoos

(7,142 posts)
51. You are aware being a constitutional scholar,
Tue Jul 23, 2019, 02:47 PM
Jul 2019

that Democrats have an extremely good case to get the grand jury information through an impeachment hearing because said hearing is judicial and not legislative. No, I don't trust Barr, but even he said that he would release the grand jury information for an impeachment hearing.

80 subpoenas for people and information with zero responses.
How many law suits that have been drawn up have actually been filed with the courts?

Listened to Charley Pierce and Jill Winebank today, no, not on cable TV, and they report that Nadler is itching to impeach, frankly I believe it is getting too late what with summer vacation and all.

Good question for a Constitutional scholar, can Nadler open up an impeachment inquiry without Speaker Pelosi's approval? I am not in favor of him doing that, just curious.

 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
56. Yes, I know that I also know that they have just as good
Tue Jul 23, 2019, 04:21 PM
Jul 2019

a case for getting the materials through the process they've set up outside of an impeachment hearing. I've explained in considerable detail more, yet you continue to make the same false argument that impeachment proceedings are the only way to obtain these materials.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212178784
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212159168
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212180453

FYI, Barr didn't say he would release the grand jury materials in an impeachment. He said he wouldn't object to the release. Two different things. He has no legal authority to release the materials without a court order to do so.

But it is amusing to see anyone argue that a court order would somehow produce materials that subpoenas haven't when subpoenas are enforced through court orders.

And there is no Constitutional provision
or House rule prohibiting Nadler from opening an impeachment inquiry without Pelosi's approval.

While I'm sure you don't mean it as a compliment - in fact, probably just the opposite - I appreciate you highlighting the fact that I am indeed a constitutional scholar as well as an expert on congressional operations and the federal Rules of Criminal and Civil Procedure.

 

watoos

(7,142 posts)
72. Now you are making me wonder about you,
Wed Jul 24, 2019, 05:47 AM
Jul 2019

If Barr requested the court to release the grand jury info the court would release it.

Once again, you are well aware that a court is much more likely to release the grand jury information to a judicial committee than to a legislative committee. A subpoena from a judicial committee carries more weight with the court than a subpoena from a legislative committee, but you are aware of that.

I hope you don't get mad at this, but, I watched Nicolle on Tuesday and she had Claire McCaskell on her show. Honest to god, McCaskell stated arguments against impeachment word for word the same as you have. Is Claire McCaskell a twin of yours separated at birth? I mean that as a compliment. Then again with the internet you may be Claire McCaskell?

 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
77. You can wonder all you like
Wed Jul 24, 2019, 07:44 AM
Jul 2019

The court won't release the materials just because Barr says so. That's not how it works. The standard the court uses for releasing the materials is not based solely on whether the Attorney General agrees.

And your lecture about "legislative committee" vs. "judicial committee" is interesting but the distinction is irrelevant in this instance since the issue is not whether the request is being made by a "judicial committee" or a "legislative committee." Here it's being made "preliminary to impeachment" which has the exact same legal weight and standing as a "judicial proceeding" under the applicable rule. There is no distinction between the two and because the House has defined these hearings as a precurser to potential impeachment prioceedings, the Judiciary Committee has the same standing and authority to obtain the materials now as it would of it were conducting an official impeachment inquiry.

And considering Claire McGaskill is a former prosecutor and US Senator, it's not surprising that she and I would say the same thing about how the law works.

And FYI, I'm not arguing "against impeachment" - just giving the benefit of my legal knowledge and experience to people interested in better understanding how the law works so they're not misled by laypeople who continually misinterpret and misstate the law applicable to impeachment.

The_Counsel

(1,660 posts)
36. There Wasn't a Rogue Administration Telling Him NOT to Show Up at Vietnam, Though...
Tue Jul 23, 2019, 09:56 AM
Jul 2019

I am not "bashing Robert Mueller," I AM bashing this administration that is doing everything in its power to thwart an investigation--despite that action in itself being an impeachable offense.

Usually.

rzemanfl

(29,540 posts)
53. I will ponder this while I wash socks. By the time
Tue Jul 23, 2019, 03:34 PM
Jul 2019

they dry in this humidity there should be an answer to your question.

marble falls

(56,371 posts)
31. Well sure they are, they can't help themselves. I loved the way ...
Tue Jul 23, 2019, 09:45 AM
Jul 2019

Peter Strzok ripped Rep. Trey Gowdy to shreds!

marble falls

(56,371 posts)
40. Jul 12, 2018, Gowdy was annointed to serve Strzok up. The whole ...
Tue Jul 23, 2019, 10:14 AM
Jul 2019

thing is even better. The image of a dejected Gowdy at the end of it was priceless.

I think Mueller will be as effective even if less fiery if the GOP try to go after him.

You can bet Barr is sweating bullets.

lostnfound

(16,139 posts)
33. Did I miss the "Governors urge GOP 2000 (or 2002/2004/2006) field not to veer too far right"?
Tue Jul 23, 2019, 09:47 AM
Jul 2019

Do we EVER hear admonitions towards any republicans “veering too far RIGHT”?

Republicans don’t “veer”. They march, they move, they push.

Only Democrats “veer”, or else they “shift”, “pull” and sometimes “careen”. The image in the mind created by this diction (choice of words) is of a reckless driver.

The TV machine is fretting about “Trump showcasing just how far left the Democratic Party has shifted”. “Far, far to the left”.

There is no “far too right” and certainly no “far, far to the right”.

Well I think Mitch McConnell has “gone too far Turtle”. He has gone far, far turtle and him and his other turtles are going to cause us all to veer into the turtle pond and be covered in turtle pond scum. Oh wait, they’ve already gotten us there. Here’s pond scum in the White House, oozing over its balcony and down the streets to the pond in front of the Lincoln Memorial where there was a very tiny crowd out in the rain on the Fourth of July.

Takket

(21,425 posts)
38. Nope. Only Dems are responsible for policing bad behavior
Tue Jul 23, 2019, 10:06 AM
Jul 2019

It is expected of the GOP so no one assigns them any responsibility for doing anything about it.

Grins

(7,134 posts)
43. Republicans will, again, show their asses, but...
Tue Jul 23, 2019, 10:30 AM
Jul 2019

...my fear is Democrats will be totally ineffective.

The format is wrong. The D's should do what was done during Watergate: ONE attorney, not a member of Congress, does ALL the questioning in a single, planned and coordinated attack designed to bring out all the dirt. Just as they would do if this was taking place in a courtroom in front of a jury.

Where is our Sam Dash, or John Doar, in this crowd?

Instead, we are going to get a mish-mash from the Reich and the left with each questioner trying to make the front page of the NY Times with the "Gotcha!" question of the century. For the voters back home.

I have very little confidence in tomorrow's hearing.

 

watoos

(7,142 posts)
73. Dems actually held practice sessions for the hearing,
Wed Jul 24, 2019, 05:52 AM
Jul 2019

so my hopes for good questioning has been raised.

JohnnyRingo

(18,581 posts)
71. Two words: Louie Gomert.
Wed Jul 24, 2019, 12:22 AM
Jul 2019

His questioning will be worth the cost of admission alone. I sincerely expect to see Mueller frequently glance at the ceiling during his turn.

democratisphere

(17,235 posts)
76. I expect total ass rethuglicons to remain consistent and act like total asses.
Wed Jul 24, 2019, 07:09 AM
Jul 2019

Total ass rethuglicons must protect their lying leader.

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