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Sun Jul 28, 2019, 03:06 PM

Mueller Was Not Up to the Task -- Not Close

For those of you who think Mueller did a fine job, from the Washington Post:

The WashPost's Matt Zapotosky and Rachael Bade report:

"After Muellerís halting, sometimes confused testimony, ... some lawmakers are privately wondering ... whether they were right to force him to testify."
"During a break, Rep. Eric Swalwell (D-Calif.) ... warned lawmakers on the second panel to slow down, shorten their questions and speak louder so Mueller could follow better."
Some told the Post they had no choice. "We didnít invite Robert De Niro to testify. We invited Robert Mueller, and he is a straight shooter who stuck to the report," said Rep. Hakeem Jeffries (D-N.Y.), referring to "Saturday Night Live" portrayal of Mueller.

Another House Democrat said: "It was a painful reminder that age catches up to all of us."

74 replies, 3242 views

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Arrow 74 replies Author Time Post
Reply Mueller Was Not Up to the Task -- Not Close (Original post)
tgards79 Jul 2019 OP
marble falls Jul 2019 #1
The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 2019 #4
marble falls Jul 2019 #9
tgards79 Jul 2019 #16
marble falls Jul 2019 #20
guillaumeb Jul 2019 #28
tgards79 Jul 2019 #35
guillaumeb Jul 2019 #37
Thekaspervote Jul 2019 #50
guillaumeb Jul 2019 #67
H2O Man Jul 2019 #71
Cartaphelius Jul 2019 #46
H2O Man Jul 2019 #70
treestar Jul 2019 #72
Fiendish Thingy Jul 2019 #43
JI7 Jul 2019 #45
Cartaphelius Jul 2019 #41
RANDYWILDMAN Jul 2019 #49
Iliyah Jul 2019 #2
shraby Jul 2019 #3
True Blue American Jul 2019 #15
Thekaspervote Jul 2019 #53
Hoyt Jul 2019 #5
marble falls Jul 2019 #13
tgards79 Jul 2019 #18
marble falls Jul 2019 #23
tgards79 Jul 2019 #36
Thekaspervote Jul 2019 #54
True Blue American Jul 2019 #60
guillaumeb Jul 2019 #29
UniteFightBack Jul 2019 #57
emmaverybo Jul 2019 #27
UniteFightBack Jul 2019 #6
triron Jul 2019 #7
True Blue American Jul 2019 #17
Thekaspervote Jul 2019 #55
UniteFightBack Jul 2019 #59
True Blue American Jul 2019 #62
uponit7771 Jul 2019 #8
radical noodle Jul 2019 #10
snowybirdie Jul 2019 #11
True Blue American Jul 2019 #19
tgards79 Jul 2019 #22
Thekaspervote Jul 2019 #58
COLGATE4 Jul 2019 #68
UniteFightBack Jul 2019 #61
True Blue American Jul 2019 #65
treestar Jul 2019 #73
ornotna Jul 2019 #12
marble falls Jul 2019 #14
cilla4progress Jul 2019 #21
tgards79 Jul 2019 #24
Thekaspervote Jul 2019 #63
dem4decades Jul 2019 #25
Lars39 Jul 2019 #30
dem4decades Jul 2019 #31
Lars39 Jul 2019 #33
guillaumeb Jul 2019 #26
tgards79 Jul 2019 #39
blogslut Jul 2019 #32
Frustratedlady Jul 2019 #34
spanone Jul 2019 #38
panader0 Jul 2019 #40
nini Jul 2019 #42
treestar Jul 2019 #74
Hekate Jul 2019 #44
bluestarone Jul 2019 #48
Hekate Jul 2019 #66
Igel Jul 2019 #47
elocs Jul 2019 #51
kentuck Jul 2019 #52
Name removed Jul 2019 #56
UniteFightBack Jul 2019 #64
treestar Jul 2019 #69

Response to tgards79 (Original post)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 03:09 PM

1. Claptrap ...

How many more time and how much clearer do you want him to say:

1. The president lied.
2. The president participated in covering up election violations.
3. The president is criminally culpable once he leaves office for high crimes and misdemeanors the Justice department says he can't face indictment for while in office.

I'm sick of this kind of talk and haven't been able to figure out what the goal of it is: a misguided attempt to fire us up or to attempt to suppress the Democratic vote in 2020.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #1)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 03:13 PM

4. I'd strengthen that to "Bullshit!"

The chattering classes wanted a performance, and when the tenor's voice broke during "Nessun dorma" because he wasn't Pavarotti but just an old lawyer, they decided the whole hearing was worthless. If it isn't riveting reality TV and it can't be summed p in a bumper sticker we aren't interested.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #4)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 03:16 PM

9. I would too, but I've been counciled I might be using that term too much lately.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #1)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 03:24 PM

16. The purpose

He is not convincing the GOP of anything. Neither will impeachment. Keep investigating, but don't impeach. The purpose is to stop this impeachment bandwagon. An acquittal will help Trump. And we will lose the House, because all those swing districts that we flipped by 5% on average will go back to the GOP.

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Response to tgards79 (Reply #16)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 03:27 PM

20. No ones convincing the GOP of anything. NO.ONE. Not one GOP legislator ...

thinks Donnie Two Scoups is a racist and even Donnie's own words don't convince them.

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Response to tgards79 (Reply #16)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 03:34 PM

28. Unfounded speculation.

Robert Mueller's testimony was too dry, to lacking in "optics" for the US corporate media,
and many voters.

For this I blame
1) the very nature of the broadcast media, and
2) the fact that the US media is corporate controlled and conservative, and
3) the existence of propaganda outlets such as FOX and right wing radio, and
4) the fact that many people confuse what is called "reality television" with actual reality.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #28)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 03:45 PM

35. You don't blame Mueller at all?

1) Refusal to go beyond his report
2) Refusal to explain his report in plain language
3) Refusal to even READ his report
4) I can't blame him for being past his prime, but he looks dazed and confused, and not at all in command of his material

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Response to tgards79 (Reply #35)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 03:47 PM

37. Ageism and nonsense.

He explained a legal report in legal language.

And no one could remember every detail of a 448 page Report.

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #37)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 04:46 PM

50. This!! "Legal ease" is not very exciting...unlike what is on the big screen

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Response to Thekaspervote (Reply #50)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 05:38 PM

67. True, and for people raised on a diet of "reality television", reality itself is not exciting. eom

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #67)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 05:50 PM

71. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you!

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Response to tgards79 (Reply #35)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 04:28 PM

46. He provided

 


FACTS than neither the Trump Administration, republicons, in general,
the religious right, the exploding number of right wing media outlets, white
nationalists, or the russians have, or ever will.



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Response to tgards79 (Reply #35)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 05:49 PM

70. silly

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Response to tgards79 (Reply #35)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 05:50 PM

72. He was not dazed and confused

And stammer or halting here and there is not the end of the world. The Orange madman speaks in word salad. Mueller does not.

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Response to tgards79 (Reply #16)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 04:19 PM

43. Your opinion is nothing but fear based defeatism with no evidence to back it up

Lose the house? If we impeach, I think it's more likely we will gain seats, especially if we nominate someone who will energize the youth vote.

Some things are more important than elections- protecting the Constitution and preserving the rule of law, for example.

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Response to tgards79 (Reply #16)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 04:23 PM

45. GOP doesn't need convincing. their issue is they don't care. not that they need

to be convinced of anything.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #1)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 03:57 PM

41. You... Can report this post

 


to the Administrators as a right-wing talking point, which literally and figuratively means, bullshit.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #1)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 04:46 PM

49. Mueller was fine

But why didn't he and his team chase the money...was that intentional??

Also what the heck did they let Flynn off with a recco of no jail time????

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Response to tgards79 (Original post)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 03:11 PM

2. I call bull.

He did what he said he would do. That took guts.

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Response to tgards79 (Original post)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 03:13 PM

3. As far as I could see, he did a bang up job. He answered what

questions he was allowed to, particularly in the obstruction part.

Some of the questions were about ongoing investigations in the counter intelligence division in the FBI. That covers spies and conspiracies against the United States.

Woe be to trump because this is all going to sink him into a cell block.

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Response to shraby (Reply #3)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 03:23 PM

15. Why are such top posts allowed to remain when they sound like Republican or Russian trolling?

Mueller did a fine job and Democratic leaders exposed Trump for what he is with concise and accurate questions that Mueller answered honestly.

If I wanted a Reality show I would watch,Ē naked And Afraid!Ē

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Response to True Blue American (Reply #15)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 04:48 PM

53. Thank you!! A voice of sanity

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Response to tgards79 (Original post)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 03:14 PM

5. I thought his appearance was much better than his report.

 

But it took him awhile to open up about his report and his statements -including that morning ó that investigators found no evidence that trump campaign conspired, cooperated, whatever one wants to call it, with the Russians.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #5)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 03:20 PM

13. You and I were watching the same hearings. We have the same take away ...

It would seem some people aren't satisfied because Mueller wasn't amped on Red Bull or forgot to set his hair on fire.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #13)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 03:26 PM

18. Oh come on, he was AWFUL!

He bumbled and stumbled and said "that's in the report" about 1,000 times, he gave no life to the narrative and he diminished the report. You are deluding yourself if you feel otherwise.

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Response to tgards79 (Reply #18)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 03:28 PM

23. He bumbled on nothing. Maybe if you had watched it. The delusion is your OP.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #23)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 03:46 PM

36. I watched the entire thing!

Morning and afternoon. He was hideous. It was appalling. And I am a die-hard Democrat and hate Trump with a passion and worked for Obama and Hillary for hours, days, weekend on end.

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Response to tgards79 (Reply #36)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 04:49 PM

54. It was not meant to be entertaining

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Response to marble falls (Reply #23)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 04:55 PM

60. Democratic Leaders asked question

Mueller answered every question put to him Adam Schiff did the best, concise, expert questins that any great Prosecutor would do .

Mueller did not answer foolish questions. Republicans looked like the dumb asses they are and now are moving ahead with the investigation

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Response to tgards79 (Reply #18)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 03:35 PM

29. From my post yesterday:

Robert Mueller's testimony was too dry, to lacking in "optics" for the US corporate media,
and many voters.

For this I blame
1) the very nature of the broadcast media, and
2) the fact that the US media is corporate controlled and conservative, and
3) the existence of propaganda outlets such as FOX and right wing radio, and
4) the fact that many people confuse what is called "reality television" with actual reality.

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Response to tgards79 (Reply #18)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 04:53 PM

57. Yes he was....I call em as I see em no matter if I wish it was different. nt

 

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Response to marble falls (Reply #13)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 03:33 PM

27. Lol. "Forgot to set his hair on fire"

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Response to tgards79 (Original post)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 03:14 PM

6. It's true he was not the best TV witness and that is what we need. nt

 

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Response to tgards79 (Original post)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 03:14 PM

7. Why is the media bashing Mueller's testimony?

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Response to triron (Reply #7)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 03:25 PM

17. Why are posters here

Doing the same thing?

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Response to True Blue American (Reply #17)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 04:50 PM

55. Good question!!

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Response to True Blue American (Reply #17)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 04:54 PM

59. Is it bashing or making an observation that any objective person clearly saw. nt

 

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Response to UniteFightBack (Reply #59)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 04:56 PM

62. Yes, when they lie about the hearing!

Next question?

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Response to tgards79 (Original post)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 03:15 PM

8. Our country is being attacked but since Mueller didn't twerk on the witness stand he did terrible

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Response to tgards79 (Original post)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 03:17 PM

10. I think his hearing, not his acuity

is an issue. I had trouble keeping up with some of their questions in the first round and we need to remember that he was aware that any misstep would be magnified. He had to be certain that he was clear on the question before he answered. He probably needs some good hearing aids.

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Response to tgards79 (Original post)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 03:18 PM

11. Interesting

how do many here are sporting right wing talking points. He was clear and definite in his answers. Maybe stumbling at times because who amongst us can remember every paragraph of a report of 450 pages? He he wasn't given time by republicans to find what they cited. And did you notice how the republicans spoke quickly so as to confuse? Watch it again with an open mind.

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Response to snowybirdie (Reply #11)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 03:26 PM

19. I have it on DVR

To watch again.

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Response to snowybirdie (Reply #11)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 03:28 PM

22. He was not clear and definite!

He was not clear and definite! He was halting and confused. He did not convey mastery of the material. He refused to read his report. He set the cause back. He changed no one's minds. And, as expected, he brought no new material. I'm as liberal as they come. Does that mean I'm supposed to agree with your talking points? And pretend he was sensational?

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Response to tgards79 (Reply #22)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 04:54 PM

58. His testimony was concise and truthful... unless you are an attorney to say he did not convey

Mastery of the material is just not so

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Response to Thekaspervote (Reply #58)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 05:47 PM

68. I am an attorney (31 years +)

and, unfortunately I agree that he did not convey mastery of the material. Sorry, but that doesn't change the fact.

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Response to tgards79 (Reply #22)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 04:55 PM

61. But he answered yes a bunch of times...well generally. nt

 

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Response to tgards79 (Reply #22)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 05:01 PM

65. Mueller was nervous when he first came in, but as Republicans attacked him you could

See that spine stiffen. He was careful in what he answered.



He even made fun of Louie Gohmartís ignorant ranting, cauusing the audience to laugh at Gohmart.

Maybe you should watch it again, check your reality show at the door.

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Response to tgards79 (Reply #22)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 05:54 PM

73. Who cares ?

The facts are what matter.

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Response to tgards79 (Original post)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 03:18 PM

12. Nonsense



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Response to ornotna (Reply #12)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 03:22 PM

14. GREAT REPLY! +1000!

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Response to tgards79 (Original post)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 03:27 PM

21. I agree he did an admirable job.

Has anyone considered that, given his reticence, perhaps he CHOSE to be a boring witness, i.e., no blockbuster revelations?

1) He's already dedicated 2 years to this. It's up to Congress now.

2) He told everyone he didn't want to testify. What would be his motivation to be captivating?

3) He testified honestly, crisply, and thoroughly. Watch the spin. It's evil.

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Response to cilla4progress (Reply #21)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 03:29 PM

24. Of course that was his plan.

His plan to was reveal nothing further than the report. BUt he could have tried to explain the report so that the average American could understand it, not rabid people (like me) who inhale this stuff and read the report the minute it came out. And as for point #3, I'm sorry but he was anything but "crisp." He was the antithesis of crisp. He was abrupt at best, and confused at worst.

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Response to tgards79 (Reply #24)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 04:57 PM

63. Why would you expect it to be "crisp?" He's an attorney, many of which are dry and non witty

Iíll take truthful and dry any day over witty.

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Response to tgards79 (Original post)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 03:30 PM

25. Did anyone ask a question of Zebley, the guy that actually ran the day to day inquiry?

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Response to dem4decades (Reply #25)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 03:37 PM

30. Not directly.

There was one question Mueller tried to pass off to him, but the questioner wanted Mueller himself to answer instead.

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Response to Lars39 (Reply #30)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 03:39 PM

31. Maybe that was a mistake. Will they get another shot at him?

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Response to dem4decades (Reply #31)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 03:40 PM

33. I think that opened the door to him being questioned later.

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Response to tgards79 (Original post)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 03:33 PM

26. Nonsense.

From my post:

Robert Mueller's testimony was too dry, to lacking in "optics" for the US corporate media,
and many voters.

For this I blame
1) the very nature of the broadcast media, and
2) the fact that the US media is corporate controlled and conservative, and
3) the existence of propaganda outlets such as FOX and right wing radio, and
4) the fact that many people confuse what is called "reality television" with actual reality.




https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212323995

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Response to guillaumeb (Reply #26)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 03:48 PM

39. If we are repeating posts...

Here is my response to you (again):

I blame Mueller because of his:

1) Refusal to go beyond his report
2) Refusal to explain his report in plain language
3) Refusal to even READ his report
4) I can't blame him for being past his prime, but he looks dazed and confused, and not at all in command of his material

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Response to tgards79 (Original post)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 03:40 PM

32. Mueller didn't break down and admit he ordered the Code Red.

I see.

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Response to tgards79 (Original post)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 03:44 PM

34. Well, my take is that those questioning spoke too fast and often aimed down at their table...

since they were on a 5-minute limit and because they didn't have their questions memorized so they could speak directly toward Mr. Mueller.

Those who are criticizing Mueller should be criticizing Repukes and Trump, since they seem to be under the impression that Mueller exonerated Trump and that there was no collusion or obstruction. Mueller never even hinted such a thing.

For his age and all the circus around him, I thought he did admirably. Oh that his critics will be able to say the same under those circumstances when they reach 75. Give the guy credit.

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Response to tgards79 (Original post)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 03:47 PM

38. I heard that 'privately wondering' earlier today, what a load of horseshit

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Response to tgards79 (Original post)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 03:49 PM

40. Let's see--37 replies and one recommendation.

That should tell you what people here think of your opinion.

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Response to tgards79 (Original post)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 04:00 PM

42. yea.. let's keep talking about how he said something, NOT WHAT HE SAID

mother of GAWD.. let's stop adding to the distraction here and focus on what he said.

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Response to nini (Reply #42)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 05:57 PM

74. +100000

Form over substance is what the pundits do.

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Response to tgards79 (Original post)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 04:22 PM

44. The ones who were not up to the task were GOP Representatives & Senators

The task in this case being to defend the US Constitution and the US against foreign invasion.

They did a great job, otoh, of Gish-galloping so fast no one could catch what they were saying, except it was in a hectoring tone.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #44)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 04:41 PM

48. Terrible thread here!

Mueller was spot on! I have total respect for him under the pressure he had on him! Her was right on target when asked if tRUMP were not the president WOULD HE INDICT HIM? HIS answer was YES!!!!! what the fuck more do we need? Update to say this was directed to Original poster (tgards79)

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Response to bluestarone (Reply #48)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 05:11 PM

66. Agreed

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Response to tgards79 (Original post)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 04:34 PM

47. Before you can say he was up to the task or not

you have to define the task.

I suspect he'd define the task differently from Swalwell.

His task was to answer questions about the report as best he could. He fumbled a time or two--at one point he corrected something in the afternoon that, he said, he "misspoke" concerning in the morning.

I personally think he got the reasoning a bit wrong about the OLC opinion. Notice that for "collusion" (and the variant terms) he came to a determination. For obstruction--which is looking more and more to be the entire reason for the counterintelligence probe that became a criminal probe about Russian interference become an obstruction of justice probe--he did not. There's nothing keeping him from the decision that an indictment wouldn't have probable cause, that it would but have crappy chances of success, or it would have probable cause and have a very good chance of success.

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Response to tgards79 (Original post)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 04:47 PM

51. The trouble here is that so many had an exacted and unrealistic view of what Mueller would do.

Like he was going to bring down the Trump administration all by himself. What ever led anyone to think that Mueller did not believe in the DOJ policy that a sitting president could not be indicted?
Even when he was called to testify, Democrats should have known exactly what they were going to hear and see.

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Response to tgards79 (Original post)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 04:48 PM

52. It is something to ponder...

I think the Republicans believed they could control him when he was first chosen to be the Special Counsel. Also, I believe many Democrats were aware that he might not have the stamina to do the investigation that needed to be done? I think this explains why the investigation may have been weighted somewhat with Democratic assistants for him. They felt they had to protect him and the investigation from Republican interference. They also felt the need to cover more ground than Mueller may have done if left to his own pace?

Just my opinion.

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Response to tgards79 (Original post)


Response to Name removed (Reply #56)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 04:58 PM

64. Kind of reminds me of a new poster that I know.

 

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Response to tgards79 (Original post)

Sun Jul 28, 2019, 05:47 PM

69. Bs

He answers the questions.

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