General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsConnor Betts, Dayton Shooter, described himself as a 'Leftist'
He said, 'I want Socialism' and would happily vote for Elizabeth Warren. He responded to a persons tweet that read if you nominate anyone other than sanders, youre going to lose by writing, I think Warren has a decent shot, as well.
On Nov. 2, 2018, he wrote: Vote blue for gods sake.
https://heavy.com/news/2019/08/connor-betts-twitter-politics-social-media/
applegrove
(118,008 posts)on a Saturday night.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)He would vote for Warren, but not Harris because she was a cop, and wished Joe Biden's generation would hurry up and die.
applegrove
(118,008 posts)Where ever his hatred came from, it did not come from progressive politics. At highschool he kept and hit list and rape list, and bragged about them to fellow students.
applegrove
(118,008 posts)crazytown
(7,277 posts)and also told her she was on his rape list. He bought the gun and accessories online. No background check. No red flags
DetroitLegalBeagle
(1,904 posts)Was through a private sale. All commercial sales go through a background check, regardless of if its bought in the store, online, or at a gun show.
You can't just buy a gun online and have it shipped direct to your house(exception to this is C&R license holders who are legally FFL's). Well, technically you can "buy" the gun, as in pay for it. But it still has to be shipped to a gun dealer where you would have to pick it up from, during which that dealer would run the background check and fill out the usual paperwork. Direct sales and shipping to a person without a federal firearms license has been illegal since 1968.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)After a quick search
The guns had been legally purchased, police said, and there was nothing in Bettss background that would have raised concerns he had only traffic tickets, for speeding and failing to yield.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/08/04/nine-fatally-shot-dayton-including-suspect-day-after-mass-shooting-texas/
His history of death threats that lead to his arrest, and being expelled from school, would have been sealed as a juvenile?
DetroitLegalBeagle
(1,904 posts)Unless his earlier death threats resulted in legal action taken against him, there would be zero record of it. Background checks only work if records are entered into it. No legal action means no records entered. As far juvenile records go, like many things, it varies by state. Some states seal juvenile records upon completion of their sentence, others require the person to request they be sealed. Some states share sealed juvenile records with the feds, others have strict non disclosure laws and require court orders to unseal them.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)Much appreciated.
LisaL
(44,962 posts)So there would be no criminal record.
LisaL
(44,962 posts)So someone with a juvenile record could pass a background check. And I don't even think he had a record, sounds like he just got suspended for his "hit" list and "rape" list, not charged with anything.
BumRushDaShow
(127,270 posts)<...>
According to court records, Betts was arrested for a DUI in 2016. He plead guilty to a lesser charge, "physical control," which meant Betts was found in his vehicle with the key in the ignition, but not driving, the prosecuting attorney confirmed to ABC News. Betts was fined $515 and given probation but spent time in jail as a result of violating his probation.
https://6abc.com/dayton-suspected-shooter-had-hit-list-rape-list-classmates-say/5442328/
So the above happened 3 years ago when he would have theoretically been 20 or 21, easily no longer considered a "juvenile".
It's funny how the articles are jumping all over the place with the new information because they are intersperseing old info with new info in their articles as a "running commentary".
LisaL
(44,962 posts)too minor a violation?
BumRushDaShow
(127,270 posts)but I as I gather as long as the infraction wasn't considered a felony, then they are good to go.
Gabby Giffords has her Center to Prevent Gun Violence website that lists summaries of each state's laws/polices and that is here
- h ttps://lawcenter.giffords.org/gun-laws/state-law/50-state-summaries/prohibited-people-state-by-state/.
The specific link to their Ohio info is here -
h ttps://lawcenter.giffords.org/prohibited-purchasers-generally-in-ohio/
^^^ due to how the message boxes are programmed, because Gabby's last name includes the letters "gif", it tries to display that part as an image when I use her name as it appears in the link, so just remove the space between the "h" and the "ttps:" to get to the sites.
Igel
(35,191 posts)It's like saying, "He drank and drive, so of course he robbed the bank."
Two steps less plausible than, "He was caught with weed. So of course he became a crack dealer." And as plausible as, "He was caught with weed, so of course he robbed the bank."
BumRushDaShow
(127,270 posts)which was the point I had originally responded to. The further details being that his "record" was a misdemeanor vs a felony, where a felony would have precluded his ability to "legally" purchase a gun in the state of Ohio.
However we know now that (at least according to reports) he had a juvenile record of having made threats against classmates via alleged "hit lists" and "rape lists", enough so that he was kicked out of school for it.
The link to the Gifford Center indicated this for Ohio -
See our Prohibited Purchasers policy summary for a comprehensive discussion of this issue.
Federal law prohibits certain persons from purchasing or possessing firearms, such as felons, certain domestic abusers, and certain people with a history of mental illness.
Similarly, Ohio prohibits the following persons from purchasing or possessing firearms, unless they have obtained a relief from disability:1
Fugitives from justice;
Persons under indictment for or convicted of any violent felony offense, or who have been adjudicated a delinquent child for the commission of an offense that, if committed by an adult, would have been a violent felony offense;
Persons under indictment for, or convicted of, a felony drug offense (or adjudicated a delinquent child for the commission of an offense that, if committed by an adult, would have been a felony drug offense);
Persons who are drug dependent, in danger of drug dependence or chronic alcoholics; or
Persons under adjudication for mental incompetence, adjudicated as a mental defective, committed to a mental institution, found to be mentally ill subject to hospitalization by court order, or involuntary mentally ill patients.2
Ohio also prohibits the use of a firearm by a career criminal.3
There is a further link that states that fire arms purchases are forbidden for anyone under 18 in the state and handgun purchases are forbidden for anyone under 21. So this suggests that he either bought that weapon "as an adult" or got it illegally as a juvenile under 18.
When you have someone that unhinged, chances are that allowing him access to a weapon of mass destruction is not a good idea. The law in Ohio mentions "delinquent juveniles adjudicated" for certain "crimes" and at this point in time, we don't know how his juvenile threats were handled.
SoCalNative
(4,613 posts)that's the probation he violated and was jailed for.
BumRushDaShow
(127,270 posts)not a juvenile.
Cha
(295,899 posts)that about Biden's generation?
Asshole.. we'll die when we're ready.
And, "leftist.. "! My god.. that sounds so far from what anyone on the left would do. All those poor people Massacred!
Chemisse
(30,793 posts)It looks like he had fantasized about killing people for years, not for any reason.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts).. into MSNBC that claimed his friend was dating a 22 yr old girl that was killed at the club the caller was black IINM.
LisaL
(44,962 posts)tblue37
(64,979 posts)LisaL
(44,962 posts)Igel
(35,191 posts)So we draw the conclusion from it. It's sort of a forced-choice test with one answer.
If we find that most of the victims are over 30, or male, or female, or had incomes over $50k or under $40k or wore ties or were drinking distilled spirits and not hoppy brew the conclusion wouldn't be as obvious. No less valid (and no more valid), of course.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)ChoppinBroccoli
(3,764 posts)Only far-right hate websites use the word "leftist" to describe liberals. And he was specifically targeting blacks and minorities, and he loved guns. Yeah, I'm sure he was a screaming liberal. He's just another in a long line of Trump ballwashers who's trying to throw the media off the scent. I'm sure it's no coincidence that Trump was in Cincinnati just days before, and I'll bet you a shiny new dime that he was there.
lame54
(35,130 posts)What he hates most
Wil be his legacy
mathematic
(1,429 posts)Cuz it's not.
This guy was a self-proclaimed socialist, according to his published tweets. Socialists aren't liberals. Socialists are leftists. This guy was not a liberal and was not using "leftist" to describe a liberal. He was a leftist and using leftist to describe a leftist. Pretty straightforward.
stopdiggin
(11,089 posts)mathematic
(1,429 posts)Looking at his history it's hate of women, not race hate. He got suspended in high school for having a "rape list" of students he wanted to sexually assault.
rockfordfile
(8,682 posts)I think he was a typical right-wing racist. He seemed to be specifically targeting African Americans except his sister, who i think tried to stop him. .
He hated and pretended to like Warren. He was pretending the whole time.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)Igel
(35,191 posts)I think.
Meaning, of course, that my answer is actually, "Fairly often."
It's a question of who's hated, not who's hating. I find no group to be innocent of this, but also find that most groups claim innocence and, when outed, shriek "tu quoque!" in their language and style of choice.
torius
(1,652 posts)Republicans use it as a slur. He also wrote anti-gun-violence posts.
mathematic
(1,429 posts)He posted a pro-communist meme with the old soviet flag on twitter.
He was not a liberal.
You remember how much dust was kicked up on DU a few months back over what the definition of "socialist" is? How the Nordic countries aren't socialist and so forth? The people insisting on pointing out the actual definition of socialism were doing so because actual socialists EXIST and they should not be confused for liberals, regardless of what republicans say. This guy was an actual socialist, not a liberal and everybody should know the difference.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)Genuinely curious, because I have never heard that used as a self-description.
ElementaryPenguin
(7,800 posts)"Leftist" "Socialist" - he's using the right wing labels for progressives.
JHB
(37,128 posts)There are people who do use that term when describing themselves.
It's not the most commonplace self-description, and I would think context matters as to when it is used, but there are enough cases where it cant't be taken as a "tell" of right-wingers pretending to be left.
former9thward
(31,798 posts)Maybe you have not been around actual socialists.
left, leftist, leftish, etc
all self-labelled
it is not a RW smear, as much as they try to make it so, just like they try to do with liberal, progressive, etc
it is a losing game to let the RW define smears and what is acceptable
Codeine
(25,586 posts)describe themselves as such. I described myself thusly when I was younger.
regnaD kciN
(26,035 posts)In fact, I often use the term to describe myself.
Drunken Irishman
(34,857 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)while socialism is an ideology described as leftist due to its "universal" ideals, as opposed to hierarchical class-embracing ideologies described as right.
The personalities of radicals/extremists, left and right, have a great deal in common in spite of their differences. In fact, they often switch sides, and extremist organizations routinely try to woo each others' followers away. This racist creep who's also drawn to a socialism that would embrace all as equal is typical of those who may go both ways depending on influences.
In addition, we also currently have two populist movements, left wing and right wing, whose leaders know their populist rhetoric will appeal to the populist blocs in each others' followings. 12% of Sanders' voters, likely almost all given to populist antagonisms (lock her up!), in 2016 voted directly for Trump in the GE as their second choice. Bett's racism and intense antagonism (characteristic of many populists) suggest he'd lean to Trump, while the appeal of socialism would pull him to the leftist movement. So he seems to fit a very common pattern here also.
As for Bett's claim to admire Elizabeth Warren, he doesn't know who she is or he wouldn't. She's neither extremist in personality nor pushing populist resentments to get power that mainstream voters won't give her. She's essentially solidly establishment with big ideas and goals, and they might have taken a clue from the fact that she's always refused to endorse Sanders and the very serious consideration she and Hillary gave to running together. (I'd bet a lot that this one is not exactly a Hillary fan. )
radius777
(3,624 posts)Cha
(295,899 posts)ChoppingBroccoli.. that makes more sense.
octoberlib
(14,971 posts)that he got arrested, kicked out of high school then managed to turn his life around , got re- admitted to school and graduated. Im just wondering if adopting a pro gun control , leftist persona was a way to throw the authorities off his trail and make them think hed changed.
Chemisse
(30,793 posts)And the bodies were all in one area (except the first). So he may not have been targeting minorities; it may have been just chance based on who was in line at the time.
Loki Liesmith
(4,602 posts)Theres a large contingent of twitter leftists who use the term to signal they are not squishy liberals.
Roland99
(53,342 posts)Loki Liesmith
(4,602 posts)Baltimike
(4,123 posts)mercuryblues
(14,489 posts)When I googled his name yesterday a Mylife profile came up.
Conner was listed under political affiliation as "Democrat Party" not Democratic Party. Today his profile is removed.
His Father's profile yesterday had no party affiliation, today he is listed as Progressive.
I wish I thought to get a screen shot of them.
Niagara
(7,403 posts)It has me listed as unaffiliated/non affiliated and under views & opinions states that I'm a tea party supporter, which is highly inaccurate. It's actually embarrassing but I'm not paying them money to have them fix it.
mercuryblues
(14,489 posts)overnight.
Niagara
(7,403 posts)Mylife is unaccredited with the BBB and currently has 11,176 customer complaints. Mylife is also unaccredited with Consumer Affairs.
Someone can purchase a Mylife membership and "fix" all they want on Betts still available profile, it's still an unreliable scam website.
mercuryblues
(14,489 posts)but who paid to change the info on that site? It went from a popular term republicans use to disparage the DemocratIC party to being pulled, while his Father's site went from no affiliation to progressive, overnight. That is what I am asking. Pretty sure his Dad wasn't the one.
Niagara
(7,403 posts)I didn't see the profiles before the changes. Whoever it was probably didn't use a disposable email address. The person who paid will try to cancel after a short time. Mylife will keep charging after the cancellation because that's the type of scam that Jeffrey Tinsley is running.
I don't like to make assumptions about people but my best guess is Jeffrey Tinsley is a republican. All information on his profile is locked since he is the Founder/CEO, and yet he gets to spread misinformation about other people through his website. I did some internet digging and found that he has multiple arrests, court surrenders and lawsuits against him. This might explain why other profiles read "Democrat" instead of "Democratic", it seems likely but I have no proof of that.
I apologize if I sounded too harsh earlier, I merely wanted you to know that Mylife is not to be trusted.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)I never seen anyone call themselves a leftist though.
Historic NY
(37,449 posts)he sounds like he was way off his meds.
crazytown
(7,277 posts)and was arrested for making death threats. He bought his gear online without any background checks.
LisaL
(44,962 posts)Historic NY
(37,449 posts)makes one wonder if he wanted to go out in a blaze of glory. He definitely was having issues.
DeminPennswoods
(15,246 posts)together. Presumably his sister and the other guy just thought they were going out on the town for Saturday night fun.
regnaD kciN
(26,035 posts)In other words, you're saying his politics had nothing to do with it, he was just "mentally ill"...? How often have I heard that after a right-winger shoots someplace up?
It seems to me that, if you insist that every mass shooting by an extremist conservative is "politically-motivated" just by the fact that they held a zealous political position, you can't duck the same charge when it's someone on the other side of the spectrum.
On the other hand, plenty of white nationalist shooters have left behind manifestos or other quotes making it clear that they were acting out of hatred for those they considered their political "enemies." There's no sign this guy did the same, or that he made an explicit connection between his violent urges and his politics as the gunmen in El Paso or Christchurch did.
Historic NY
(37,449 posts)family or otherwise. Who goes out with their sister and the kills her.
wyldwolf
(43,865 posts)And incels aren't usually liberals. If you ever decide to troll comic book and video game groups and forums where incels hangout, you'll immediately recognize them by their anti-feminist (read: I can't get laid) diatribes. they're a bunch of women-hating vile virgins. The rhetoric isn't usually political, but they do latch on to the same type of hate speech right wingers do regarding multiculturalism.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)To be more of a news consolidator where you will see lots of detail about a subject...much more than other places.
LisaL
(44,962 posts)He was working at a fast food place, she was studying in a university. Was he jealous of his own sister?
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)Don't think it's fair at all to say this guy was motivated by politics. I think if you read everything...you will take that away too.
One thing I didn't get was that it said he rode to the bar with his sister and her companion. He wasn't allowed in the bar. His car was parked nearby. He had gun and armor there ? Like in trunk? So he drove?
Chemisse
(30,793 posts)He could hardly be all dressed up in body armor, etc, without alarming his passengers, which is something I had wondered about.
That opens another question - was this a spontaneous shooting? Did he carry around his weapon in the trunk all the time and just that night decide to use it?
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)friends get in and not him and it made him snap? Why didn't they let him in? Bet his parents are beyond consolable and utterly guilt stricken - losing both their children in such a horrific act. And not to recognize and do enough to help him with his demons.
My husband said that people without evil intentions may have the gun...but never the armor. So the armor implies premeditation?
LisaL
(44,962 posts)Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)If so, that would have meant he shot her before he even started his spree.
Chemisse
(30,793 posts)To lose both their children at once in such a horrific way. (On edit - I mistakenly said their daughter was a nursing student and mother, but that was another victim of that shooting).
I can't imagine their pain right now.
LisaL
(44,962 posts)She wasn't a mother of 2 and she was not a nursing student.
Chemisse
(30,793 posts)Thank-you for the correction. I'm going to edit my post.
DeminPennswoods
(15,246 posts)that you come in body armor, ear protectors, etc because you expect to be confronted by cops and want to stay alive as long as possible to kill as many as possible.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)LisaL
(44,962 posts)Corgigal
(9,291 posts)one shot, as he was aiming for another person. Straight up, war.
NickB79
(19,109 posts)And most squad cars have AR-15's instead of shotguns now.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)someone...why didn't they shoot for legs?
NickB79
(19,109 posts)Most police are crap shots to start with, as range time is usually limited. Throw in a lot of adrenaline, a pounding heart, and a small, moving target like a leg, the fact you're taking cover from incoming shots from the criminal, and you're just wasting bullets.
Besides, a hit to the femoral artery in the thigh is pretty dam lethal in itself.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)elocs
(22,474 posts)Humans are capable of murder or rape or evil regardless who they vote for or support.
Which is why everyone makes the mistake when they think their tribe is on the side of the angels and the opposing tribe is evil.
Chemisse
(30,793 posts)And it doesn't matter what this man's political inclinations were; his shootings were not related to his politics.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)to do with your life. Sure you may vote, but for many it's just a thing you do once a year or four.
Guess we are trying to make sense of people who have gone off the deep end. Nothing is simple.
DeminPennswoods
(15,246 posts)be key to figuring out the motive. His sister might not have recognized him immediately because of the mask and outfit, but he surely knew her and the other guy who shot, but apparently survived.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)We will know a lot more once we hear what he has to say.
DeminPennswoods
(15,246 posts)He'll likely be interviewed again later depending on the severity of his injuries.
LisaL
(44,962 posts)Not dating Betts sister.
maxrandb
(15,188 posts)Last edited Mon Aug 5, 2019, 09:14 AM - Edit history (1)
This guy, regardless of politics, was told that violence and hate allowed him the right to kill people by the rhetoric of Donnie Shit for Brains, Retrumplicans and Hate Radio.
The message from the "top" is clear. Hatred, violence and murder are sanctioned and encouraged by the president of the United States.
Have the media call me when ANY Democrat says he was; "just a good person on the other side".
Donnie Dollhands has given carte blanche to the evil that lies in everyone.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)regnaD kciN
(26,035 posts)Sadly, this will serve to cancel out El Paso in the public consciousness. Why bother pointing to white nationalism when "both sides do it?" In truth, there's a huge difference between the two, in that the guy in Texas was consciously acting, by his own "manifesto," to carry out ethnic cleansing to fight off "invasion by Hispanics." But don't count on the average person being able to make such a distinction.
get the red out
(13,458 posts)Poster boy for slipping through the mental health cracks. His history of kill and rape lists certainly paints this picture.
No doubt he will provide "what-about-ism" for the right to try to "both sides" these two mass murders though. Their guy killed a bunch of people, so what? YOUR guy did too. It's going to get sickening.
LisaL
(44,962 posts)who were more successful. Including his own sister. So I don't think his motive had anything to do with his political views.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)lunasun
(21,646 posts)old enough , he could buy some bully accessories that kill . With this shooting +the racial massacre in El Paso +the shooter who killed two families n Wisconsin after harassing a women, Gilroy + all the single gun deaths occurring in the US last week , one common issue is guns.
Fighting against the profitable gun industry for change is not easy.
After MFOL there was disappointment at the lack of action
Sunsky
(1,737 posts)who exclaimed that he loved his guns, who had a 100 round drum magazine but claimed to be pro gun control. Who wanted action by Congress after Parkland and yet became a mass murderer himself. The person who chastised Trump for his anti immigrant hate speech, yet went on a shooting spree killing mostly African Americans hours after hate and white supremacy became the focus on the MSM. Something doesn't add up.
As the old phrase goes, actions speak louder than words. His actions make me question his words. It's just like Trump saying, he's the least racist person who exists, goes to show that anyone can proclaim to be anything. There's much more to learn about Connor Betts.
0rganism
(23,855 posts)and really, lying about his politics is among the least of his crimes.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I'm just not buying it. It's very possible that someone could have politically motivated to alter his Facebook page, or he could have been trolling himself, to make it seem like this was a "leftist/antifa" motivated killing, but it just doesn't make sense. I do not know one single liberal/leftist/socialist that would fit this guy's profile.
I'm not saying all liberals/leftists are saints, but by his past actions and this shooting, does this guy sound like any liberal/leftist that you know (other than what was written on his facebook page)?
TexasBushwhacker
(20,043 posts)regnaD kciN
(26,035 posts)...let's not go down the particular rabbit-hole where we start claiming "false flag" operations without solid proof. Enough people do that on the other side, and it thoroughly discredits them in the eyes of most people.
Sunsky
(1,737 posts)There are contradictions imo and I submitted the reasoning behind my doubt. I also wrote, there's a lot more to learn about him.
Mc Mike
(9,106 posts)Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)John Wayne Gacey was an active Democrat. Ted Bundy was an active Republican. I don't think for a second either of them really gave a shit about a single issue. Political involvement gave them the opportunity to build a wholesome public image, to make themselves seem less suspicious or more trustworthy, and it put them in a position of power over others, which most psychopaths seem to find rather titillating.
FarPoint
(12,207 posts)Bellbrook is soooooo right wing tump-country....
I sense this is a right wing spin....
kcr
(15,300 posts)No liberal or progressive I know refers to themselves as a leftist. That is a common term right wingers use, though.
SweetieD
(1,660 posts)Was probably setting his public profile up so Trump didn't take the fall. These right wing psychos are so scared of trump getting blame.
The el paso shooter's manifesto begged ppl not to blame trump as did the Christchurch shooter.
I'd like to see his real internet history and what forums and other social media accounts he had.
Bayard
(21,801 posts)So this guy will quickly be spun as a socialist (same as leftist, you know), violent Democrat, yada yada. A--See! We told you so! May even make it into tRump's little speech today.
0rganism
(23,855 posts)not at all. his personal opinions and musings about fiscal policy and presidential politics will not be his legacy.
and as far as being "socially left", i think we can pretty much discount any self-evaluations he proffered in that regard as well. he showed us all what he really thinks of his fellow human beings on Saturday night.
all i know for certain is that man should have been far away from the triggers of all firearms and he wasn't and people paid for his excess with their lives and the lives of their loved ones.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,079 posts)...to Senator Warren's plan for Universal Health Care.
, obvs.
Proud Liberal Dem
(24,353 posts)I'm already hearing from some of my FB friends that we need to make sure to condemn violence from both the left and the right but I'm not seeing why we should think of it in these terms though?
maxsolomon
(32,975 posts)This Amoklauf shooting wasn't inspired by ideology.
He shot his best friend and sister. "Leftism" had shit to do with that.
Firearms and alienation did.
CrispyQ
(36,221 posts)This is what Kelly Ann Conway wants the media to report. And some probably will.
Iggo
(47,486 posts)I also don't care what his favorite color is.
It's the psycho gunfucker's ability to get a gun that matters.
radius777
(3,624 posts)The guy sounds like an alt-left populist, not a Dem or liberal.
The alt-left (like the alt-right) is mainly a white populist movement that sees social liberalism as having 'stolen' the 'FDR Dem party' from them.
So it would come as no surprise if this was indeed a hate crime of some sort.
It does seem odd that a white guy would go into mostly black club to carry out a mass shooting.
And he killed his sister, wonder if she was dating a black/brown dude.
Supposedly the shooter was also very mentally ill (schizophrenic, hearing voices).
We need more facts which have been slow to come out.
moondust
(19,917 posts)Nobody I've ever known on the "left" ever kept "hit lists" or "rape lists" or anything like that. That sounds more like the "Team Mitch" gang accosting a cardboard cutout of AOC.
At some point in high school or someplace he may have glommed onto some words and phrases he heard from friends or others he wanted to hang out with or impress, possibly not even knowing their meaning and implications.
Maybe he was a classic Jekyll and Hyde case.
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)The only thing political about the situation is the money that the NRA pays to lobby congress, to keep them from regulating arms sales. That's the bottom line.
ConnorMarc
(653 posts)backscatter712
(26,355 posts)And there's no evidence saying that this shooting was politically motivated (this one looks like incel madness.) As opposed to the El Paso shooting, where the shooter provided a handy manifesto with his white supremacist beliefs.
liberalmuse
(18,670 posts)But conservatives love false equivalencies. There is a difference between someone shooting people and writing a manifesto directly using words spoken by a racist president, and a person who says they would support a cause or candidate who in no way endorses violence, guns, rape or the many other things this guy was into. They're both murderers, but one of them was groomed and the other had a history of being fucked up in the head with thoughts of rape and violence.