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H2O Man

(73,510 posts)
Mon Aug 5, 2019, 07:45 PM Aug 2019

Machine Gun




I am not surprised to see republicans, from Trump on down to people on social and anti-social media, saying that the weekend's shootings are rooted in “mental illness” rather than in gun culture. Now, I do think that there were reasons to include Amendment 2 in the Bill of Rights, but it obviously was not meant to insure mass murders that occur like clockwork in America. I note that there are restrictions upon even those rights defined by Amendment 1, with the example of Walker v City of Birmingham serving as a prime example.

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/388/307/

But today, rather than the Constitution, I'd like to focus on the attempt to label the violence as the result of “mental illness.” I suspect that most people look at the individuals who engage in such violence, and conclude that there is “something wrong” with them. There is, and it is accurate to refer to the guilty person as having a disease, in the root sense of the word. However, very few of these individuals suffer from one of the major classifications of mental illness, those being the schizophrenic or bi-polar diseases.

More, it is grossly unfair to associate the people who suffer from these diseases with such violence. Indeed, statistics document that those with major mental illnesses are far, far more likely to be the victims of violence, than to be the perpetrators. The only one of these major mental illnesses with a co-morbidity with violence is paranoid schizophrenia, and these cases account for very little of the horrors that this country is experiencing.

Now, let's look back to Erich Fromm's 1955 book, “The Sane Society.” In it, he points out that if there was one family in a nice neighborhood that had, among other qualities, alcoholism (we can update this to various substance abuses) and violence, we would recognize this as a sick family system. If a large number of families had these issues, we'd recognize it as a sick neighborhood. If an entire nation has a large percentage – not necessarily a majority – that have problems such as opioid addiction and violence, there is evidence that it is a sick society.

Now, let's fast-forward to families in our modern society. No family is perfect. But many, many families are able to function in a manner that allows everyone to get their needs met in a generally healthy manner. In those unhealthy families, however, getting one's needs met often involves learning tactics that, while successful within that family unit, do not translate well into the larger society. This is especially true when we consider skills such as “problem solving” and dealing with the anger and frustrations that life often places upon our path.

Now let's consider a specific group. Young white men, who have been raised by parents who have no parenting skills. One cannot teach what one does not know. And our society currently has multi-generations of people without the ability to problem-solve in a healthy manner. This obviously does not mean that everyone who grows up in a dysfunctional family system is damaged in the same manner, much less prone to violence. (And otherwise “healthy” families may produce a violent individual.) Yet some who have very low self-esteem, little problem-solving skills, and a rather large chip on their shoulders are more prone to attempt to get their needs met by using violence. This most often is found in their relationships with family members, who are “safe” targets. Cowards rarely pick on someone capable of fighting back. And this, of course, brings us to a special type of coward – one who blames their problems on “others” and who thus become armed with the weapons of warfare.

Before I go farther, I want to note that issues involving anxiety and depression are very real and often very serious. There are definitely individuals who get relief from medications prescribed by medical professionals. Being human is a strange experience, and involves a large number of factors ranging from heredity, environment, nutrition, and more. And our brain's structure and chemistry evolved in a manner that, for example, required a degree of anxiety to insure human survival. Indeed, our brains are about the same as when our human family first wandered out onto the great African savannas thousands and thousands of years ago, when it was important to identify the source of a noise up ahead. And the “fight or flight” response is not unique to our species.

However, we are confronted with a significant population that does not think clearly in the context of problem-solving or dealing with life's frustrations. By no coincidence, these individuals have formed a cluster we can identify as Trump's base of supporters. A portion of them are unlikely to resort to violence outside of their homes as a means of problem-solving. Another portion are most likely to participate in violence if it breaks out in a group setting, for crowds tend to behave differently than individuals. And still another portion are prone to the planning of and preparation for violence – all the while convincing themselves that this violence is actually self-defense against the source of those noises out on the savanna.

What we have today is a sub-group within these who have very little skills for coping with life, and getting their needs met in a healthy manner. Among these are some with access to deadly weapons. And more than enough of these young white men have lashed out with extreme violence that it is clear our society is confronted with a disease commonly known as white nationalism.

On top of this, there is a president who calls upon the darker impulses of people with those serious and dangerous potentials. I could vomit when I hear Trump attempt to distance himself from the results. And it bothers me to hear him blab about mental health, attempting to place blame upon a population that does not share his guilt.

I worked for many years in a mental health clinic located in a county office building. Certainly mental health services are of great value in our society. At the same time, there were incidents where angry people came in with weapons. There are still marks on one stairway where two people fired a shotgun. Those individuals should not have had access to any gun.

It's easy to say that schools need to identify “at risk” kids. They do, and most of the schools I am familiar with do a good job at that. But it is unrealistic to expect schools to solve all of these social problems. Proof of that, sad to say, is found at the numerous mass shootings at schools.

Houses of religious worship are no doubt helpful in many people's lives. Yet we have witnessed this same extreme violence inside houses of worship.

There seems to be little disagreement that those who commit such acts belong in prison. Indeed, they do. And no sane person would argue that inmates have Amendment 2 rights – prisons being dangerous places, you know. It would seem that if we applied common sense, we could agree that there are individuals who, even before they are incarcerated, should not have access to fire arms. And that no one needs or has a right to a military type of gun.

Just my opinion,
H2O Man
21 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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marble falls

(57,013 posts)
1. The perfect piece of music to underline your OP with. This is one of your very best in a line ...
Mon Aug 5, 2019, 07:56 PM
Aug 2019

of great OPs.

H2O Man

(73,510 posts)
3. Thank you!
Mon Aug 5, 2019, 08:22 PM
Aug 2019

I found myself listening to this version of Jimi's haunting song this weekend. The essay is largely the result of my son and I visiting my cousin today. These terrible events are especially hard on him. When I got home, I combined the two things, questioned if it was worth posting, then decided I might as well. I'm glad that you liked it.

marble falls

(57,013 posts)
9. I was prepared to hate it, I loved Mitch Mitchel and Noel Redding, but Billy Cox and Buddy Miles ...
Mon Aug 5, 2019, 09:28 PM
Aug 2019

had obviously worked hard with Hendrix before they hit the road. Other than his work on John McGlothlin's Devotion album, this is Miles best work.

I still play this album (and Devotion, Electric Ladyland, Axis Bold as Love) regularly.

H2O Man

(73,510 posts)
10. Billy Cox
Mon Aug 5, 2019, 09:57 PM
Aug 2019

knew Jimi from when they were in the military; he was good backing Jimi at Woodstock. And Hendrix had known Buddy Miles from back when they both played in the background for other musicians. I love the Experience line-up, too.

I've got a 5 LP collection from Germany of Jimi -- well before he was famous -- playing Motown. He was outstanding.

H2O Man

(73,510 posts)
14. One of my
Tue Aug 6, 2019, 11:11 AM
Aug 2019

sister-in-laws was married to a musician who played in a band that opened for the Experience ion a US tour. She told me about one night, in the dressing room before the show, Jimi walked in. It was the first time she had seen him up close, and she nervously took a step backwards -- knocking his guitar down. She said he was not happy with that, but otherwise was a gentle person until he went on stage.

marble falls

(57,013 posts)
21. Sounds like the Jimi Hendrix I get from all the stories about him. He seemed pretty gentle in ...
Wed Aug 7, 2019, 09:19 AM
Aug 2019

his interviews.

BigmanPigman

(51,567 posts)
2. It is almost like a mathematical or scientific equation.
Mon Aug 5, 2019, 08:12 PM
Aug 2019

Easily available weapons of war designed to kill people quickly + other factors (mental illness/social media radicalization, etc) = death

Other countries, societies, cultures, religions, governments have mental health problems, social media, at-risk factors, etc like we do but the BIG difference is the legal availability of these weapons of war in the hands of civilians in the US.

H2O Man

(73,510 posts)
4. Right.
Mon Aug 5, 2019, 08:27 PM
Aug 2019

Well said. I note that these violent outbursts do not take place in an even flow. There is an increase, and a root cause is definitely found in the social media radicalization. And we have just witnessed what so many of us knew -- that jackass in Texas paraphrasing (if not quoting) the Trump stump speech.

H2O Man

(73,510 posts)
8. It is.
Mon Aug 5, 2019, 08:37 PM
Aug 2019

And it is the result of forces -- including economic -- that have been in play long before the parasite-in-chief took office. Trump is capitalizing on them, of course. He's stupid enough to believe that he can control them. But he has no idea.

KY_EnviroGuy

(14,488 posts)
12. Very complex issues. Republicans play our public like a cheap fiddle.
Mon Aug 5, 2019, 11:58 PM
Aug 2019

Inherited from our primitive ancestors, thousands of twists in individual mental properties exist between us that will always be there. But modern man chooses to create an ideal human as reference and any of us not fitting that perfect model may be shunned rather than embraced to fit in and be happy and comfortably productive.

That ideal human concept was implanted in our brains by a combination of greedy psychopathic leaders, inhuman corporate objectives, and commercialized dogmatic religion. Persons who are mentally different, highly sensitive, artistic, physically unattractive or otherwise not the perfect producer are considered outcasts.

The internet provides a place of escape for outcasts or those not seen as perfect, just like the kitchen table at home and the humble churches used to provide. It's collects both the best and most evil among us and can be a blessing (as with DU) or a curse - where many dark and dangerous sites exist to play on the vulnerable. The fact that individuals can latch onto a group of people they've never seen and whose history or motives they don't know, and yet call that group "friends" or that place "home" is a very disturbing trend.

We live in a high-pressure society that draws out the worst properties in most of us, driven by unfettered capitalism promoted by selfish so-called conservatives around the globe. These pressures worsens mental sensitivities and often trigger violent reactions. Demands for higher and higher productivity, advertising that encourages waste and individuality, and the urge to buy everything in sight ('cause the neighbor got one) drives us toward individualism rather than a healthy community.

It's no wonder we're collectively going nuts. We cannot behave sanely without brotherhood and love of fellow man.

I would submit that we're facing a very dark future unless we:
* are willing to unchain ourselves from nationalism, individualism, racism, materialism and greed,
* demand reasonable limits on individual wealth,
* develop systems of shared ownership of the earth's resources,
* rededicate ourselves to fundamental moral values and the value of community, and
* dedicate ourselves to protecting our planet's environment as best we can.

In summary, people haven't really changed much but our society's mental and emotional environment sure as hell has.

Great OP, H2O Man.........

H2O Man

(73,510 posts)
13. Thank you!
Tue Aug 6, 2019, 11:07 AM
Aug 2019

Great points! Much appreciated!

One of the curious things in modern society -- closely related to exactly what you have stated here -- is that many people are as uncomfortable with their best potential as they are with their worst potential. And some are much more comfortable with their worst potential than even their medium range. I think that is also a point that Fromm made in "The Sane Society" .....that in a community of dysfunctional people, an individual who is "sane" stands out as an oddball, somehow different, foreign. It's interesting to consider the role that technology plays in this. Certainly, we witness ppeople behaving far from their best on the internet, where they are comfortable saying things to strangers that they wouldn't say in person.

H2O Man

(73,510 posts)
16. Thank you!
Tue Aug 6, 2019, 11:27 AM
Aug 2019

My son and I visited my cousin yesterday, as shootings are always very upsetting for him. And we were discussing this subject. When I got home, I saw a number of conversations on face book where people were saying that the gunmen must be "crazy." So I wrote down what I had been saying to my son and cousin.

H2O Man

(73,510 posts)
18. Right.
Tue Aug 6, 2019, 11:32 AM
Aug 2019

From Saturday on, he and I were on the phone constantly. These terrible events cause untold pain for so many good people.

malthaussen

(17,175 posts)
19. It's "mental illness" because white people aren't like that...
Tue Aug 6, 2019, 11:38 AM
Aug 2019

... whereas non-whites are, and thus such behavior is to be expected from them. This, I believe, is the underlying message. Thus, the poor, "exceptional" whites should be treated with compassion and understanding, but those others should be gunned down like dogs.

-- Mal

H2O Man

(73,510 posts)
20. Yep!
Tue Aug 6, 2019, 11:48 AM
Aug 2019

That's exactly what my son has been saying since Saturday. That's such an important point, and I really should have addressed that in the OP. I appreciate you adding it.

My son is also saying -- as many have -- that if it were non-white young men doing this, everyone would recognize that our society is under violent attack.

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