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Fri Aug 16, 2019, 11:18 AM

Impeachment Charges

I know that it's too early for anybody to say definitively and we won't obviously know until they are actually filed, but what do people think that the actual impeachment charges against Trump might end up being, officially? In this case, we appear to have so much to choose from in terms of Trumpian malfeasance from 2017 to present, but what do you think that Democrats have the stronger case on? What do you think they would most effectively be able to communicate to the public- to the person on the street- as to why Trump should be removed from office? What seems most indisputable? Thoughts?

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Arrow 9 replies Author Time Post
Reply Impeachment Charges (Original post)
Proud Liberal Dem Aug 2019 OP
mainstreetonce Aug 2019 #1
Proud Liberal Dem Aug 2019 #2
liberal N proud Aug 2019 #3
Proud Liberal Dem Aug 2019 #4
Claritie Pixie Aug 2019 #5
Fiendish Thingy Aug 2019 #6
Proud Liberal Dem Aug 2019 #7
KY_EnviroGuy Aug 2019 #8
Proud Liberal Dem Aug 2019 #9

Response to Proud Liberal Dem (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 11:22 AM

1. I don't know the answer

But I'd like to see it be something related to incompetence for the job and not upholding his oath of office.It has to go beyond obstruction of justice.

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Response to mainstreetonce (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 11:30 AM

2. I agree

I think that he is simply grossly unfit for the job. I/we knew that going into everything but his unfitness has been consistently proven and reinforced. One thing that I think that we have to talk about after Trump is gone- however he goes- are how broad Presidential powers are and how easy it is for somebody with bad intentions can exploit them. There is so much questionable stuff that Trump has done that many people have pointed out are, technically, within his power to do. IMHO we need to re-examine some of those powers and see where we might want to plug some holes/curb some of that discretionary power. We have been sort of lucky that Trump, although an autocrat at heart, is also pretty incompetent and isn't crafty enough to use all of those lever of powers to the kind of maximum degree that a more competent autocrat could, to more damaging effect. We may get rid of him but may encounter the threat of a smarter, more competent would-be autocrat down the road (more in the vein of somebody like Putin) whom could finish what Trump/GOP has started in terms of remaking the US in a more "authoritarian Russia" image

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Response to Proud Liberal Dem (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 11:36 AM

3. It would have to be a blow job

That is the only thing republicans consider impeachable

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #3)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 11:47 AM

4. True blue

They don't feel quite as strongly about Trump's self-acknowledged sexual assault, certainly not enough to vote against him (or not at all) in 2016.

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Response to Proud Liberal Dem (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 11:50 AM

5. Andrew Johnson - Impeachment Article X - would apply to Trump.

ARTICLE X.

That said Andrew Johnson. President of the United States, unmindful of the high duties of his office and the dignity and proprieties thereof, and of the harmony and courtesies which ought to exist and be maintained between the executive and legislative branches of the Government of the United States, designing and intending to set aside the rightful authority and powers of Congress, did attempt to bring into disgrace, ridicule, hatred, contempt, and reproach the Congress of the United States and the several branches thereof, to impair and destroy the regard and respect of all the good people of the United States for the Congress and legislative power thereof, (which all officers of the Government ought inviolably to preserve and maintain,) and to excite the odium and resentment of all the good people of the United States against Congress and the laws by it duly and constitutionally enacted: and in pursuance of said design and intent, openly and publicly, and before divers assemblages of the citizens of the United States convened in divers parts thereof to meet and receive said Andrew Johnson as the Chief Magistrate of the United States, did, on the 18th day of August, in the year of our Lord 1866, and on divers other days and times, as well before as afterward, make and deliver with a loud voice certain intemperate, inflammatory, and scandalous harangues, and did therein utter loud threats and bitter menaces as well against Congress amid the cries, jeers, and laughter of the multitudes then assembled and within hearing...

https://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/document/articles-of-impeachment-of-andrew-johnson/

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Response to Proud Liberal Dem (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 11:57 AM

6. Andrew Johnson was impeached, in part, for disparaging Congress

There are so many potential articles of impeachment, including:

1. Obstruction
2. Violations of oath of office
3. Felony campaign finance violation
4. National security violations (Jaredís clearance et al)
5. Emoluments
6. Violations of the Presidential Records ACT
7. Stochastic Terrorism
8. Crimes against humanity (kids in cages)
9. Perjury (lying in his written answers to Meuller)
10. Violations of the successions act, for his appointments of Acting cabinet members without senate approval.

And all the other high crimes that demean the office of the president and damage Americaís relationships with our allies.

Remember, Articles of Impeachment do not have to be statutory violations of a criminal code.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #6)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 12:07 PM

7. +1

That's a pretty good start of a list of things. And yes, I recognize, that they don't have to be statutory violations

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Response to Proud Liberal Dem (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 12:52 PM

8. Don't know how or of this would be applied but...

it seems to me the damage tRump and his administration has done to international treaties and agreements that were either in place or near completion may warrant a charge. For example, the Iran nuclear deal took thousands of hours of diplomatic work in order to get many parties to agree to a framework and much of that work is now wasted.

His disrespect for that work along with what was done toward the Paris climate accord cannot be acceptable because our government simply cannot flip-flop between successive administrations just because the current one disagrees on political philosophy or is too backward to accept the consensus of current science.

Particularly if it can be shown that these things were done to benifit corporate interests or the interests of other nations rather than U.S. public safety and security, I think those issues should come to light.

These things have caused the United States to now seen as an unreliable partner on the international stage.

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Response to KY_EnviroGuy (Reply #8)

Tue Aug 20, 2019, 09:54 AM

9. I have said this many, many times

This NEEDS to be an OP!


This- to me- started when GWB/Cheney basically came in and s**t all over what Clinton had been working on while he was President and now Trump has repeatedly upended stuff Obama had worked on. Like with regulations and rules, we can't keep everybody in a constant state of uncertainty and confusion. Once we make these treaties, we need to honor them unless there are some extraordinary circumstances that require us to reassess a situation.

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