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Fri Aug 16, 2019, 04:00 PM

The Pioneering Woman Of Science Whom DUers Are Going To Attack And Smear

The Chief Medical Examiner of the City of New York is no small-potatoes job. As one might imagine, it requires a person of the highest qualifications and integrity.

Dr. Barbara Sampson, the woman on the far right of the photograph below, was appointed in 2014 by Mayor Bill de Blasio, and is the first woman to occupy that office.





Dr. Sampson is also a trustee of the American Board of Pathology.

A native of New York City, Dr. Sampson earned her bachelorís degree from Princeton University, obtained her Ph.D. in Molecular Biology at Rockefeller University, and received her degree in medicine at Cornell University Medical College, followed by a residency at Brigham and Womenís Hospital in Boston.

She brings years of experience to her role as Chief Medical Examiner, having served as Acting Chief Medical Examiner, First Deputy Chief Medical Examiner, Senior Medical Examiner, and Cardiovascular Pathology Consultant, among other positions at OCME since 1998.

She serves as President of the Society of Cardiovascular Pathology, the Vice-Chairman of the Residency Review Committee for Pathology of the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education, and is a member of the National Association of Medical Examiners, the United States and Canadian Academy of Pathology, and the American Academy of Forensic Sciences.

Dr. Sampson has published widely on forensic pathology and microbiology, including 29 articles and 4 book chapters, and serves as an Associate Editor of the journal Cardiovascular Pathology. She is the recipient of the Young Investigator Award from the Society of Cardiovascular Pathology and the E.R. Squibb and Sons Senior Thesis Prize for Contribution to Scientific Research. Dr. Sampson is board certified in Anatomic and Clinical Pathology and Forensic Pathology and is participating in Maintenance of Certification.

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Go ahead and smear her your best, DU. What sum of money do you suppose she decided to cash in a lifetime of integrity for? Post how much you think it took.

Tell me how much it takes to buy off a leading woman scientist, who was educated and came up through the ranks when science was a much more male-dominated profession, and who no doubt was discouraged by men every step of the way, in order to cover up the crimes of a man who was credibly accused of molesting girls.

I want to know what you have to do to get a woman to trade in her integrity for a job like that, so please let me know how much money you think it takes.

And, shame on you.

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On edit: I have been advised to clarify that "DUers" means "persons who post to DU". It does not mean "all DUers", just as references to, for example, "white people" do not always mean "all white people". Given that I am also a DUer, one might think the meaning of the phrase was clear, but apparently not. If the comment does not apply to you, then have a great day!

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Reply The Pioneering Woman Of Science Whom DUers Are Going To Attack And Smear (Original post)
jberryhill Aug 2019 OP
True Dough Aug 2019 #1
jberryhill Aug 2019 #2
Blue_true Aug 2019 #71
mcar Aug 2019 #9
LineLineLineReply .
jberryhill Aug 2019 #11
mcar Aug 2019 #12
jberryhill Aug 2019 #13
mcar Aug 2019 #17
PoindexterOglethorpe Aug 2019 #27
Blue_true Aug 2019 #76
PoindexterOglethorpe Aug 2019 #98
Blue_true Aug 2019 #142
True Dough Aug 2019 #143
Steelrolled Aug 2019 #160
yaesu Aug 2019 #65
BlancheSplanchnik Aug 2019 #108
True Dough Aug 2019 #144
BlancheSplanchnik Aug 2019 #165
Kurt V. Aug 2019 #110
aikoaiko Aug 2019 #148
stonecutter357 Aug 2019 #3
MuseRider Aug 2019 #4
mrs_p Aug 2019 #52
MuseRider Aug 2019 #118
Aristus Aug 2019 #5
jberryhill Aug 2019 #6
Aristus Aug 2019 #136
StarfishSaver Aug 2019 #7
Claritie Pixie Aug 2019 #8
LineLineReply .
jberryhill Aug 2019 #10
Claritie Pixie Aug 2019 #19
jberryhill Aug 2019 #25
Claritie Pixie Aug 2019 #28
jberryhill Aug 2019 #29
jberryhill Aug 2019 #54
TwilightZone Aug 2019 #57
NJCher Aug 2019 #121
jberryhill Aug 2019 #126
uponit7771 Aug 2019 #14
jberryhill Aug 2019 #16
uponit7771 Aug 2019 #20
jberryhill Aug 2019 #23
uponit7771 Aug 2019 #24
jberryhill Aug 2019 #26
uponit7771 Aug 2019 #32
jberryhill Aug 2019 #34
uponit7771 Aug 2019 #80
yardwork Aug 2019 #36
uponit7771 Aug 2019 #81
SidDithers Aug 2019 #15
jberryhill Aug 2019 #18
jpak Aug 2019 #21
jberryhill Aug 2019 #42
Yonnie3 Aug 2019 #22
calimary Aug 2019 #31
The Velveteen Ocelot Aug 2019 #30
GulfCoast66 Aug 2019 #33
jberryhill Aug 2019 #35
yardwork Aug 2019 #37
jberryhill Aug 2019 #38
yardwork Aug 2019 #40
elevator48 Aug 2019 #39
SouthernProgressive Aug 2019 #41
WhiskeyGrinder Aug 2019 #43
dflprincess Aug 2019 #44
jberryhill Aug 2019 #46
world wide wally Aug 2019 #61
jberryhill Aug 2019 #62
world wide wally Aug 2019 #66
jberryhill Aug 2019 #67
dflprincess Aug 2019 #70
jberryhill Aug 2019 #88
Post removed Aug 2019 #45
jberryhill Aug 2019 #47
JeaneRaye Aug 2019 #49
marble falls Aug 2019 #69
jberryhill Aug 2019 #74
marble falls Aug 2019 #96
jberryhill Aug 2019 #97
Fozzledick Aug 2019 #59
jberryhill Aug 2019 #64
demmiblue Aug 2019 #48
defacto7 Aug 2019 #50
UniteFightBack Aug 2019 #51
ChubbyStar Aug 2019 #130
SCVDem Aug 2019 #53
jberryhill Aug 2019 #56
TwilightZone Aug 2019 #55
jberryhill Aug 2019 #58
TwilightZone Aug 2019 #156
jberryhill Aug 2019 #157
TNNurse Aug 2019 #60
Takket Aug 2019 #63
Turbineguy Aug 2019 #68
jmbar2 Aug 2019 #72
jberryhill Aug 2019 #77
marble falls Aug 2019 #73
Mosby Aug 2019 #75
rampartc Aug 2019 #78
jberryhill Aug 2019 #79
rampartc Aug 2019 #82
jberryhill Aug 2019 #86
rampartc Aug 2019 #163
xmas74 Aug 2019 #162
rampartc Aug 2019 #164
xmas74 Aug 2019 #166
lunatica Aug 2019 #83
jberryhill Aug 2019 #84
lunatica Aug 2019 #87
jberryhill Aug 2019 #89
lunatica Aug 2019 #106
Takket Aug 2019 #92
jberryhill Aug 2019 #94
pnwmom Aug 2019 #93
jberryhill Aug 2019 #95
pnwmom Aug 2019 #101
jberryhill Aug 2019 #122
pnwmom Aug 2019 #131
jberryhill Aug 2019 #133
pnwmom Aug 2019 #141
RhodeIslandOne Aug 2019 #149
pnwmom Aug 2019 #151
Whiskeytide Aug 2019 #85
pnwmom Aug 2019 #90
flotsam Aug 2019 #91
jberryhill Aug 2019 #100
flotsam Aug 2019 #105
jberryhill Aug 2019 #111
Ptah Aug 2019 #103
flotsam Aug 2019 #112
Ptah Aug 2019 #113
ChubbyStar Aug 2019 #137
ChubbyStar Aug 2019 #138
MicaelS Aug 2019 #127
JudyM Aug 2019 #99
jberryhill Aug 2019 #104
JudyM Aug 2019 #116
jberryhill Aug 2019 #119
JudyM Aug 2019 #120
jberryhill Aug 2019 #124
JudyM Aug 2019 #128
jberryhill Aug 2019 #129
JudyM Aug 2019 #132
jberryhill Aug 2019 #135
BlueMississippi Aug 2019 #102
certainot Aug 2019 #107
certainot Aug 2019 #123
jberryhill Aug 2019 #125
riversedge Aug 2019 #109
Ramsey Barner Aug 2019 #114
Hekate Aug 2019 #115
MicaelS Aug 2019 #117
Hermit-The-Prog Aug 2019 #134
Crunchy Frog Aug 2019 #139
Brawndo Aug 2019 #140
still_one Aug 2019 #147
still_one Aug 2019 #145
SharonClark Aug 2019 #146
jberryhill Aug 2019 #150
Cousin Dupree Aug 2019 #152
USALiberal Aug 2019 #153
guillaumeb Aug 2019 #154
Demonaut Aug 2019 #155
Codeine Aug 2019 #158
quickesst Aug 2019 #159
xmas74 Aug 2019 #161

Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 04:03 PM

1. For those who are utterly (udderly) confused about jberryhill's OP

Dr. Sampson oversaw the autopsy on Jeffrey Epstein.

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Response to True Dough (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 04:05 PM

2. Oh, DUers are already calling her a liar

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #2)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:46 PM

71. You know how people behave.

I guess there was a desire to find a conspiracy. The Examiner's work blows part of that possibility out of the water, so some are disappointed.

The Chief Medical Examiner does have an impressive resume. I see no reason why she would throw away an impressive lifetime of work to help scumbags cover up a murder.

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Response to True Dough (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 04:13 PM

9. Thanks for this explanation

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #11)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 04:16 PM

12. Yeah, I was just looking at that

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Response to mcar (Reply #12)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 04:17 PM

13. I may be a little early


But once that news gets wider circulation, we will be hearing from the usual suspects that she is corrupt.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #13)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 04:20 PM

17. Yes, we will

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Response to True Dough (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 04:28 PM

27. Thank you. I was completely puzzled by the OP.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #27)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:51 PM

76. How could you be puzzled?

The OP gave the context of the Doctor's job in the first paragraph. Even I knew that Epstein was given an autopsy in the New York Medical Examiner's office and to tell the truth, I have spent most of this week with my head up my ass. So you should certainly have been able to connect the dots with the information the OP gave and knowledge of current events.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #76)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:11 PM

98. I am not obsessing enough about Epstein

to be hanging on such details. I knew that an autopsy had been done but didn't bother to remember exactly where it was done or by whom.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #98)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 07:12 PM

142. Ok, thanks. nt

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #98)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 07:43 PM

143. "to be hanging on such details"

Don't tell me you just went there.

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Response to True Dough (Reply #143)

Sat Aug 17, 2019, 01:13 AM

160. I missed that one!

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Response to True Dough (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:41 PM

65. oh, okay, I thought that was it but wasn't sure. I have no problem believing he offed himself

But the prison and Barr are guilty of negligence.

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Response to True Dough (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:16 PM

108. Thank you, I was utterly confused.

No udders were involved, to my knowledge.

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Response to BlancheSplanchnik (Reply #108)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 07:44 PM

144. But the situation is being milked by some

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Response to True Dough (Reply #144)

Sat Aug 17, 2019, 07:15 AM

165. True, Doh!

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Response to True Dough (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:17 PM

110. Thanks . i was in the confused category.

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Response to True Dough (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 08:22 PM

148. Thanks. I was WTF about the OP

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 04:06 PM

3. wtf ?

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 04:07 PM

4. Those results and samples go through

a whole lot of people. I am sure there are pathologists who could get away with stuff but I do not know any who would want to try. I used to work in a lab before I became a nurse. It would be hard for results to go out without more than just the pathologist knowing the results. They all go through the results on big cases and agree on the results. It would probably not be impossible but I would think that with a big case they would all be checking each other to be certain nothing is missed.

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Response to MuseRider (Reply #4)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:33 PM

52. Yep

Iím a vet path. Assuming paths for (only ) humans are similar, thatís what we do for any high profile case or necropsy/autopsy that will have major implications (i.e., litigation, quarantine, cull). Rarely does a path want all that on his/her shoulders alone.

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Response to mrs_p (Reply #52)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:31 PM

118. Exactly.

Otherwise you end up in the paper when the end up needing to exhume someone later.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 04:08 PM

5. Uh......sorry?...

DU-ers ragging on an accomplished woman?

Are you at the right site?

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Response to Aristus (Reply #5)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 04:11 PM

6. She has ruled Epstein's death a suicide by hanging

You want to see DUers calling her a liar?

Go here:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142355877

I am at DU. And they will be lining up to call her a corrupt liar just as soon as the news is more widely published.

I will bet you that most of them will assume the ME is a "he" while they are at it.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #6)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:55 PM

136. Not me. I'm scientist.

If that's what the evidence shows, that's what it shows.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 04:11 PM

7. She's a tool

Was paid/scared off.

Incompetent.

Or somesuch.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 04:13 PM

8. You seem to be the one in attack mode.

Who here is disparaging Dr. Barbara Sampson?

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Response to Claritie Pixie (Reply #8)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 04:14 PM

10. .

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142355877

And many more will join in, once her finding is more widely published. Just watch.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #10)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 04:21 PM

19. Deal with them as they pop up, but don't generalize which you've done in your OP.

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Response to Claritie Pixie (Reply #19)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 04:24 PM

25. Generalize?

The two who have popped up in this thread... are they not DUers?

I wanted to have a one-stop link in order to refer to her credentials, instead of having to cut and paste each time.

Oh, and one of our members believes she's a coward.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #25)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 04:30 PM

28. I get it, I do.

BUT -

Your thread title:

"The Pioneering Woman Of Science Whom DUers Are Going To Attack And Smear"

and this statement:

"Go ahead and smear her your best, DU."

are indeed generalizations and totally unnecessary.

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Response to Claritie Pixie (Reply #28)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 04:34 PM

29. Her autopsy conclusion is likely a minority opinion here


If the run of posts is any indication, I will bet you that the majority sentiment at DU is likely to be that she is lying.

That's the way these things work.

The warden was bribed to take him off of suicide watch. The guards were paid to sleep. Everyone was either bribed or threatened into making it appear that a federal facility was running on an inadequate budget with insufficient and lackluster personnel. Can you imagine such a thing?

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Response to Claritie Pixie (Reply #28)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:33 PM

54. Let's see how valid a "generalization" it may be


I'm going to use this spot as a place to do some counting:

In addition to the ones in this very thread, including the entertaining yet brief "Post Removed" we have some early results streaming in...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212385307

"Just have to wonder who told the M.E. to call it a suicide"

"I'll bet he said Epstein has never looked better"

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142355877

"And JFK was killed by a lone shooter"

"Too convenient"

"It is a coverup"

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Response to Claritie Pixie (Reply #28)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:34 PM

57. Agreed.

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Response to Claritie Pixie (Reply #28)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:37 PM

121. attacking your fellow posters

is a poor way to make your point.

What is your goal?

Do you think people are going to want to listen to you after you've attacked them?



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Response to NJCher (Reply #121)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:40 PM

126. Did you see the edit?

If the comments do not apply to you, then they do not apply to you.

See, e.g. "not all white people" - https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=%22not+all+white+people%22+site%3Ademocraticunderground.com

What is interesting is the number of people who have their knickers in a twist over the choice of phrase used to refer to "persons who post to DU" versus the number of people who are impressed by Dr. Sampson's qualifications.

Oddly, a number of people have rec'd and otherwise approved this post. I can't imagine who they might be.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 04:19 PM

14. Her life could've been threatened by Putin's violent white supremacist whore Donald Trump

More probable than usually to be true and no smear.

Thread dead?

tia

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #14)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 04:20 PM

16. Ah yes, calling her a coward. Of course.

Evidence from her office has been used to lock up mob killers, drug gangsters, and the lowest of the lowlife imaginable in NYC.

But this time they got to her.

And you are going to go with that?

Too bad she couldn't have kept any, you know, EVIDENCE of being threatened, since that wouldn't have occurred to her.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #16)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 04:21 PM

20. Not a coward I understand if she's scared of a violent white supremacist president of America

...
Thread dead?

tia

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #20)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 04:22 PM

23. Too bad she wouldn't have thought of keeping any, you know...

EVIDENCE of having been threatened.

Since her entire life revolves around evidence of crimes.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #23)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 04:23 PM

24. True, a dead mans switch ?! Isn't that CT stuff there JBerr?

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #24)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 04:28 PM

26. No, it is not CT stuff

But if you are going to threaten someone, you need to make sure of three things:

1. That your threat will be believed,

2. That your threat will work, and

3. That your threat will not leave any evidence in the event that it doesn't work.

1 and 3 are in tension with each other.

Remarkably, officials get threatened by all sorts of people all of the time. A high-ranking official of the administration of Bill de Blasio is very unlikely to simply fold and falsify a report on an autopsy that had a number of sets of eyeballs - including an outside expert and former CME of NYC - on it.

Were they all threatened?

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #26)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 04:39 PM

32. This is true. So Epstein's death was stage to look like a suicide ,.. figures

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #32)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 04:43 PM

34. Attaboy Uponit7771




It's a good thing that the people who staged it managed to do such a good job that Dr. Sampson couldn't tell the difference!

All of that book-learnin' ain't worth a dang, is it.

So, when one is doing these things, is there some set of rules which determines who gets paid off and who gets threatened instead?

I can see why Avenatti is looking to you for help with all of those works in progress you were on about.

Everything that looks the way it is has merely been staged to look the way it is.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #34)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:53 PM

80. lol... pulling your leg

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #14)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 04:46 PM

36. Are you serious?

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Response to yardwork (Reply #36)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:54 PM

81. Are you?!?!?!

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 04:19 PM

15. DU rec...

Well said.

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #15)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 04:20 PM

18. Look at the post above yours


I left out coward.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 04:21 PM

21. I Attack And Smear them - they carry Barr's and Trump's water

Happy?

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Response to jpak (Reply #21)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:00 PM

42. Your honesty is a virtue

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 04:22 PM

22. Thank you for providing her credentials.

it saves me having to look them up. They are quite impressive. I was around some MD plus PHD candidates in the early 70s. The few women in that mainly male course of study were incredibly intelligent and had backbones of steel.

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Response to Yonnie3 (Reply #22)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 04:36 PM

31. That's kinda how it is when women start make no incursions into

territory that had previously been male-dominated. I found that to be true in a different line of work.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 04:35 PM

30. Never let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.

Also, never assume incompetence to be the cause of anything if a believing a conspiracy theory is more fun, and never try shaving with Bill Ockham's razor.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 04:43 PM

33. Thanks for this thread.

Defanged the attack before it got going.

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #33)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 04:46 PM

35. Oh I doubt it


It is simply that her conclusion was leaked and has made some news. When her report is released, you can bank on an all-out assault against her.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 04:48 PM

37. Good OP.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #37)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 04:51 PM

38. Thank you


I was impressed by her qualifications, and thought it would be a good idea for people to know who is being called a liar.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #38)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 04:55 PM

40. Good on you. Also, some folks don't seem to realize that she doesn't report to Barr.

I'm constantly surprised by how many people don't understand the fundamental details of how our government works. Federal, state, and local agencies just seem to blur together in many people's minds.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 04:52 PM

39. I would be willing to wager that the majority of DU posters will forego attacking

 

this woman, who is evidently well qualified to give her professional opinion. I certainly will not disparage her or her findings. But, I will point out that the history of high profile, and lesser cases, is replete with conflicting opinions regarding autopsy results, from a myriad of experts. I always believe the more qualified people who look at the evidence the better, within reason. Accusing someone with having an agenda in their findings without any proof of questionable motives is ignorant behavior. Reserving final judgement and examining all details and permutations of the scientific results is legitimate.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 04:56 PM

41. Won't see me attacking or smearing her.

 

Epstein is the morally and ethically corrupt piece of shit. Iím sure the medical examiner would rather have no affiliation with any of this.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:02 PM

43. K&R.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:19 PM

44. I don't see what her gender has to do with it

And I don't see why you're surprised people remain skeptical. We've all seen far too many events like this that protect the status quo.

On the other hand, there are some who've never heard a government explanation they weren't willing to promote.

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Response to dflprincess (Reply #44)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:24 PM

46. "a government explanation"


So, the administration of Mayor de Blasio is in on it, in your view?

Do I understand you correctly?

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #46)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:37 PM

61. IN all honesty, I don think you get it.

The problem isn't her, it's that nobody here trusts Bill Barr (for good reason)

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Response to world wide wally (Reply #61)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:37 PM

62. She doesn't work for Bill Barr


She doesn't work for the federal government.

She works for the City of New York, which happens to be governed by a Democrat who appointed her.

Please explain the relevance of Bill Barr to that?

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #62)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:42 PM

66. I believe people think he is doing what he did with the Mueller Report and fudging results

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Response to world wide wally (Reply #66)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:44 PM

67. Who is the "he" here?


Neither Barr nor anyone else in the DoJ would have any involvement whatsoever in the conduct or report of an autopsy undertaken by the Chief Medical Examiner of the City of New York.

Explain to me how that would even work.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #46)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:46 PM

70. Show me where I said the DeBlasio administration was in on it

On it. Saying no one is immune to threats doesn't mean the threat came from the inside.

I do find it curious that there are people who will always buy the official story and never ask questions.

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Response to dflprincess (Reply #70)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:01 PM

88. "Never ask questions"


My first question on hearing of the report was "who is this person?" so I looked it up and posted it.

But, if you are referring to the Chief Medical Examiner of the City of New York, then the "official story" to which you are referring is that of the De Blasio administration.

There used to be a rule at DU about attacking Democrats. I see it no longer matters, just in time for the election.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #45)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:25 PM

47. A post about an accomplished woman appointed by a Democratic mayor...

...belongs on a "right wing site"?

You're going to have to try harder.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #47)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:28 PM

49. No... you do.

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Response to JeaneRaye (Reply #49)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:45 PM

69. The argument seems to be if he had broken bones in his neck he was strangled and not hung ...

when the objective is to break ones neck being hung. That Epstein didn't have a drop to break his vertebra, the fact is he was strangled by his noose and it broke bones the same way strangulation would have.

Its no secret and its been op'd here in the past the many suicide watch jail inmates in this country who commit suicide because of lazy/undermanned/overworked staff.

Some people need to apply Occam's razor to this event.

I agree with everything JBerry's posted about this.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #69)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:49 PM

74. The hyoid bone is not a vertebra

It is a small bone in the front of the neck below the chin, and is relatively easily broken:



It is usually protected by the jaw.

And, as you note, it is not some kind of indicator that someone was strangled by another person:

Brooklynite posted this studiously-ignored article:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=12385016

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #74)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:09 PM

96. Where in the fuck did I say it was. Please reread my post. I said even though Epstein didn't have ..

the drop required to break his vertebra, the noose sill broke bones in his neck. And I believe if he were leaning forward as he hung he certainly would have, he had a great chance to break his Hyoid. I've seen a few photos of jailhouse hangings and they tend to be leaning forward when they're found.

I consulted with my sister when she represented a family suing Harris County after deputies killed and then hung an inmate. And I got to see the photo of a farmer who had hung himself off a line that didn't get his feet off the ground in Iowa just before the bank was going to auction his farm. And a nephew hung himself on the clothesline in my cousin's basement.

I don't need to see anymore hanging photos the rest of my life.

Sheesh, dude I AGREE with you. And we both know how unusual that is.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #96)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:10 PM

97. I didn't say you said it was

I simply added the point about the bone in question for precision.

You might consider the meaning of the phrase "as you note" in my post, indicating general agreement.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #47)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:35 PM

59. No, a broad-brush attack against DU'ers.

How very artful!

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Response to Fozzledick (Reply #59)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:39 PM

64. I'm sorry, what do you call people who post things on DU?


I don't know what else to call "people who post things on DU".

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Response to Post removed (Reply #45)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:25 PM

48. ...

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:30 PM

50. Your post offers a quite abstract though dataless view of the autopsy results.

I hadn't heard. I still haven't.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:32 PM

51. I see what you did there. I'm with you. nt

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Response to UniteFightBack (Reply #51)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:51 PM

130. I see what you did there

Fucking hilarious!

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:33 PM

53. What surprises me

is how fast the tox results came in.

Usually they take about three weeks on average.

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Response to SCVDem (Reply #53)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:34 PM

56. I imagine that would depend....


...on whether the ME in question has an in-house lab or has to send out.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:34 PM

55. So, ignore them.

Clearly, you've been here a long time, so you should know by now that DU has its share of contrarians, skeptics, and conspiracy theory enthusiasts. This is nothing new, and Epstein is just the latest CT du jour.

But those posters are generally a small part of the overall population. I'm not sure how making broad generalizations about DU as though everyone is like that accomplishes anything.

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Response to TwilightZone (Reply #55)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:35 PM

58. Why should I or anyone ignore attacks on a top scientist appointed by Democratic administration?

"But those posters are generally a small part of the overall population"

Ah, may I see your Generalization License?

And could you let me know where I can get one?

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #58)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 09:43 PM

156. Try math.

There are hundreds or thousands of active posters on DU. The ones who are advancing CTs about Epstein's autopsy are a tiny fraction of that. Simple math.

Even among those who are posting on the topic, the same few posters seem to be the ones pushing the most outlandish theories.

You seem to think that condescension and lumping everyone into nice, neat groups is going to convince people of your positions. It's likely to do the opposite, as it clearly has in this thread.

As others have noted, I think you're just trying to stir shit up. Mission accomplished.

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Response to TwilightZone (Reply #156)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 09:46 PM

157. You seem to believe I care about convincing anyone of anything


And yet, bizarrely, the number of people rec'ing or otherwise commending the sentiment of the OP in their replies, outnumbers the ones critical of it.

There. Math. I tried it.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:36 PM

60. Some of those here will miss the point that his suicide

was enabled by incompetence or an intentional plan to take him off suicide watch. It does not mean others were not involved.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:38 PM

63. this is the problem with conspiracy theories......

once someone makes up their mind that a conspiracy has taken place, no amount of evidence produced can ever change their mind, because the evidence is part of the conspiracy. So since we all despise drumpf/Barr, we assume they had Epstein killed, and therefor no other evidence makes an difference.

BTW... this is the EXACT same reasoning MAGAts use to conclude that bill and Hillary had epstein murdered, and the exact same reason none of them will chance their mind.

The replies to the OP in this thread are very upsetting. Makes me think DU is nothing more than freeperville seen through blue colored glasses instead of red.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:44 PM

68. It's safe to accept that not everyone

in every level of government is trumps whore.

In fact, the many vacant posts in the trump administration indicate there's an acute shortage of trump whores and it may be growing.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:46 PM

72. I'm not going to get worked up over shit-stirring posts

The majority of DUers aren't making judgements over this person's judgment. If some do, it's just the nature of a public forum.

I don't see why you started this thread criticizing DUers for the comments of a few.

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Response to jmbar2 (Reply #72)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:51 PM

77. People who post at DU are DUers


I did not say "all", and I did not even say "most".

But they are certainly members of this site.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:47 PM

73. Great OP, JBerry, I agree with everything you've posted on this thread.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)


Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:52 PM

78. did she identify the body?

i'm willing to accept that the person she examined somehow managed to hang himself, maybe with a little encouragement.

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Response to rampartc (Reply #78)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:53 PM

79. Ah, yes, the old body switcheroo


Because Epstein had no medical or dental history which would have been evident in an examination.

Brilliant!

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #79)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:55 PM

82. the records cpild have easily be switched

I think you are underestimating what money can accomplish.

2 guards asleep on the job?

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Response to rampartc (Reply #82)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:58 PM

86. Of course!


So you're in the "Epstein is still alive" camp, yes?

Because if Epstein is not dead, then why go find someone of his approximate age and description, find that person's medical records, forge them all in Epstein's name and then hang him, when you have a perfectly good Epstein sitting in a jail cell?

The reason to do that is to keep him alive and spirit him away in the confusion, is that it?

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #86)

Sat Aug 17, 2019, 02:01 AM

163. precisely

killing Epstein (or his suicide) does not stop the release of his "material," video from his years of entertaining the rich and famous.

no one who matters wants Epstein dead. they just want him quiet.

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Response to rampartc (Reply #82)

Sat Aug 17, 2019, 01:52 AM

162. I worked in a jail.

Guards sleeping isn't unheard of. Multiple guards sleeping? Not unheard of, especially in this day and age of people working multiple jobs just to pay their bills.

I saw guards napping in empty cells, locker rooms, cafeteria/break room, in transport vehicles-anywhere they could catch a few zzz.

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Response to xmas74 (Reply #162)

Sat Aug 17, 2019, 02:03 AM

164. is it anyone's job to supervise these guys?

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Response to rampartc (Reply #164)

Sat Aug 17, 2019, 02:33 PM

166. The supervisor is just as overworked.

It's not uncommon to see them also working security at a Walmart, sporting events,etc. They're just as exhausted.

Public sector jobs don't pay well. People do what they can to survive. If it means working three jobs and cat naps at one, so be it.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:55 PM

83. I'm a DUer and am not attacking her

Frankly I resent the broad brush that paints most DUers as sinners because a handful are not too smart. Generalizations are pretty lazy ways to make your point.

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Response to lunatica (Reply #83)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:56 PM

84. Where did I say "most"


People who post things on DU are DUers.

I did not say "all DUers" and I did not say "all white people" either. Okay?

If it does not apply to you, it does not apply to you.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #84)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:00 PM

87. The last three paragraphs you posted are an attack on DU

Which means all of us.

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Response to lunatica (Reply #87)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:02 PM

89. All of us? Me too?

I posted a thread attacking myself?

If the comments do not apply to you, then they do not apply to you.

Just like "white people" or anything else.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #89)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:15 PM

106. Nice try blaming me for what you wrote

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #84)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:04 PM

92. apparently you didn't say "some" which means the same thing as "all"

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Response to Takket (Reply #92)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:08 PM

94. Well how come that is understood when people say things about "white people"?


There are going to be things posted to DU which attack Dr. Sampson's integrity.

In fact, there already have been things posted to DU which attack Dr. Sampson's integrity.

Dr. Sampson is a highly ranking official of the De Blasio administration. There used to be a rule at DU about attacking Democrats, but I doubt that is going to be applied in this case.

But I really don't know what to call "people who post things to DU" other than "DUers".

Who, in their right mind, would read that as "everybody at DU is going to post something attacking Dr. Sampson's credibility"?

That doesn't even make sense.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #84)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:05 PM

93. You said, "Go ahead and smear her your best, DU. "

You didn't limit your comments to a small group, or any group, or DUers. You slammed the site in general.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #93)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:09 PM

95. Me too?


"Not all white people".

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #95)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:13 PM

101. If you hadn't been trying to slam DU, you should have omitted the word "DU."

The Pioneering Woman Of Science Whom Some Are Going To Attack And Smear

Go ahead and smear her your best.



All you had to do was leave off the word "DU" from those sentences. Then your post would have been a challenge to anyone who might have been considering blaming her -- not a challenge to DU in general, which is what your sentence was, as written.


ON UPDATE: I'm not sure what you're getting at with your reference to "white people," but neither of your sentences slamming DU would have been okay if you had substituted "white people" or "black people." But if you had left off the word DU -- or any other reference to a group -- then your statements would logically only apply to people who actually were engaging in the conduct you are criticizing.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #101)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:37 PM

122. Since you don't get the reference, maybe this will help

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #122)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:51 PM

131. You're just trying to distract. The point is that you could and should have left the word DU

out of the post, if you weren't trying to deliberately insult DU.

White people are more likely than other races, as a group, to support Trump.

HOWEVER, there is zero evidence that DUers are more likely, as a group, to disparage the Medical Examiner. Your analogy fails.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #131)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:53 PM

133. We shall see what the majority opinion is, as time goes forward


Nonetheless you are reading the word "most" in where it is certainly not written.

The people who rec'd this thread are also DUers.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #133)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 07:12 PM

141. The point is you needlessly included the word "DU" in those sentences

when it didn't add to the logic or grammatical simplicity of either sentence.

People anywhere, on DU and off, might have the view that you described.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #93)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 08:36 PM

149. There are certain DUers (and yes, the OP is a DUer much as he/she might not like the label)....

....who seem to relish in sniffing down on many others here, like they are above it all. The same ones, every time.

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Response to RhodeIslandOne (Reply #149)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 08:50 PM

151. Ya think?

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:58 PM

85. If I'm not mistaken, your first pic ...

... proves she is a character on Law and Order SVU. Clearly a Soros funded crisis actor hired by the Illuminati to protect chem trail manufacturers at Monsanto from vaccination toxins and pizza.

Biden too. Damn. I always suspected he wasnít real.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:02 PM

90. I have no problems with the autopsy. I blame the jailers

who took Epstein's roommate away, and left him alone in the room with the means to hang himself -- after a previous attempt to hang himself.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:03 PM

91. All I see is you denigrating posters here who are skeptical

For myself I would like to see all the autopsy with photos, photos of the cell and drawings of his body position as found. Perhaps then my skepticism will be allayed. But I assure you your words and attitude will not.

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Response to flotsam (Reply #91)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:13 PM

100. You don't see the photographs and biography of a remarkably accomplished medical scientist?

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #100)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:15 PM

105. What has that to do with the information I asked for?

Nothing actually.

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Response to flotsam (Reply #105)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:18 PM

111. You want fries with that?


Thus far, the conclusion was leaked, as reported in other news linked in this thread.

As far as when or whether the report will be published generally would depend, I guess, on the policy of the City of New York in relation to autopsy reports.

I seriously doubt that any mass media are going to publish a "how to kill yourself by strangulation without suspending your body" manual, but that's just my guess at this time.

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Response to flotsam (Reply #91)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:14 PM

103. Are you saying the NYC M.E. is incompetent?

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Response to Ptah (Reply #103)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:18 PM

112. I am asking for proof

why do you find that odd?

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Response to flotsam (Reply #112)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:21 PM

113. Why don't you trust the NYC M.E.?

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Response to Ptah (Reply #113)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 07:01 PM

137. Why don't you let the poster have his/her say?

Hmmm?

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Response to Ptah (Reply #103)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 07:02 PM

138. Did they say that?

Hmmm

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Response to flotsam (Reply #91)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:40 PM

127. So you're qualified to render a Professional ..

Opinion based on the evidence? That must mean you are an MD, DO or ME.


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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:12 PM

99. I don't know how you are so certain.

I agree that baseless aspersions are unfair.

However, research in ethical behavior in business settings is clear that, given personally compelling circumstances and immersed in a culture that will accept it, a personís apparent ethical stature isnít dispositive of whether they will make ethical decisions. That is why it is essential to have an organizational culture that supports ethical decision making. DOJ corporate sentencing guidelines acknowledge this fact.

IOW, her integrity cannot be proved by her history. Particularly when, if the suicide was actually a murder, some of the most powerful people on the face of the earth would be leveraging everything they had, potentially, on keeping it under wraps. So to speak. They couldíve made any kind of unimaginable threats.

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Response to JudyM (Reply #99)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:14 PM

104. So, is it the ME's office or the De Blasio administration generally...

...which does not support ethical decision making?

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #104)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:30 PM

116. Neither, necessarily. She is in the lion's den with DOJ. Why did Barr unrecuse?

It couldíve been a single face to face. Donít think these guys donít know what theyíre doing ówhen the stakes are this high they are all in and they are essentially career thugs.

There are some troubling unanswered questions starting with the crickets about his first ďattempt,Ē and what just as convincingly looks like, based on circumstantial evidence, a staged setup as opposed to a suicide.

Weíll see what facts come out, but right now there isnít sufficient info to know either way, and Iím skeptical enough about the cast of characters to not automatically take what the good doctor says at face value.

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Response to JudyM (Reply #116)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:33 PM

119. SHE IS NOT EMPLOYED BY THE DOJ


She is employed by the City of New York.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #119)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:36 PM

120. I know that. But Barr is all over this.

Iím not saying I think she was compromised, Iím simply not assuming she definitely was not.

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Response to JudyM (Reply #120)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:38 PM

124. Mayor Bill De Blasio Let Barr Decide What The ME Of NYC Would Write?


I like how you start with "baseless aspersions are unfair" and then call De Blasio's administration unethical and the NYC medical examiner subject to influence by Bill Barr, with no factual basis at all.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #124)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:42 PM

128. What if it's a question of judgment?

We donít know all the facts yet, as Iíve said, but if itís a question of judgment thereís room for flexibility.

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Response to JudyM (Reply #128)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:45 PM

129. Then Dr. Sampson would exercise her best profesional judgment

...and would also qualify her opinion to that effect.

I realize the whole concept of competent autonomous women is threatening to some people, but I have to bow to your opening of "baseless aspersions are unfair" followed by a string of baseless aspersions against her and the Democratic administration of which she is an employee.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #129)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:53 PM

132. Well, you seem unequivocally certain that there was no foul play. For me, I'll wait and see.

Gender has nothing to do with my opinion. I love competent autonomous women as a matter of fact

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Response to JudyM (Reply #132)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:55 PM

135. That's quite a stretch

I am "unequivocally certain" that Dr. Sampson is a woman of the highest qualifications and integrity. Yes.

Going from there to "no foul play" is quite the jump.

Others may tend to agree more with Epstein's lawyers:

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:13 PM

102. Pathologists do their job diligently

 

It is the height of conspiracy theorizing to say anything otherwise.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:15 PM

107. epstien could figure out he might get an easier prison if he ratted on everyone but

he'd still get a life sentence.

and whether he ratted on them now or had the potential to rat them out later he wouldn't last long, whatever prison he was in - whitey bulger was the example set in the early part of the trump presidency.

epstien had nothing to live for.

how long will manafort last if he doesn't get his pardon?

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Response to certainot (Reply #107)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:38 PM

123. all they/barr/etc had to do is give him the opportunity

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Response to certainot (Reply #123)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:39 PM

125. Or maybe not arrest and jail him in the first place


But simply bump him off without all the attention.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:16 PM

109. I have no problem with her conclusion.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:23 PM

114. Dr. Michael Baden was also present at the Epstein autopsy.

He's getting on in years, but he's no lightweight. He was involved in the autopsies for JFK and MLK.
Any coverup in the Epstein autopsy would have had to get past him as well.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:24 PM

115. Thank you for the heads-up. I had no idea this was coming up...

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:31 PM

117. What an absolutely fantastic smackdown of CT.

Thanks so much for posting it.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:53 PM

134. sounds like you're trying to pick a fight

Have a nice day.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 07:09 PM

139. Well, I'm glad pathology was more on the ball than the prison administrators.

I still wonder about him being left unsupervised for several hours, and other irregularities.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 07:10 PM

140. Do you discount the possibility that he was allowed to commit suicide?

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Response to Brawndo (Reply #140)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 08:18 PM

147. That possibility was not excluded by the OP or the ME, and was not part of the autopsy

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 08:12 PM

145. what is really telling is Biden in the top picture with the ME. Obviously, he killed Epstein, and

is also involved in the cover up

The evidence is obvious

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 08:17 PM

146. You can support your position without smearing DUers

Sounds like you just want a fight.

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Response to SharonClark (Reply #146)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 08:44 PM

150. Did you miss this note?

"On edit: I have been advised to clarify that "DUers" means "persons who post to DU". It does not mean "all DUers", just as references to, for example, "white people" do not always mean "all white people". Given that I am also a DUer, one might think the meaning of the phrase was clear, but apparently not. If the comment does not apply to you, then have a great day!"

So, what do you think of Dr. Sampson?

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 08:56 PM

152. Lots of hostility here

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 08:58 PM

153. LOL, ok! nt

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 09:17 PM

154. This particular DU poster understood your meaning.

Have a good day as well, DU poster.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 09:35 PM

155. see below

"On edit: I have been advised to clarify that "DUers" means "persons who post to DU". It does not mean "all DUers", just as references to, for example, "white people" do not always mean "all white people". Given that I am also a DUer, one might think the meaning of the phrase was clear, but apparently not. If the comment does not apply to you, then have a great day!"

if you need to write an explanation then you are doing something wrong

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2019, 10:48 PM

158. Forget it Jake,

itís Chinatown.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Sat Aug 17, 2019, 12:17 AM

159. instead of acting....

....to head off the conspiracy theorists and gossip, this sounds more like goading and daring someone to attack the good doctor in order for you to have more adversaries you can defend her from because a few is not enough for you. Sounds like daring someone to pick up a dollar bill while you are hovering over it ready with a knife.

"Go ahead and smear her your best, DU. What sum of money do you suppose she decided to cash in a lifetime of integrity for? Post how much you think it took."

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Sat Aug 17, 2019, 01:48 AM

161. Do I believe her findings?

Absolutely.

I don't think he wanted to go to trial,knowing he'd spend the rest of his days behind bars. He was a known sex addict and a rumored drug addict who had spent this time detoxxing and dwelling on everything he couldn't have. And the age of the young girls involved meant hr would remain isolated for his own safety-and he knew it.

I have no problem believing it was a suicide. He had nothing left and he knew it. His death isn't a conspiracy and it isn't that uncommon.

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