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Zalatix

(8,994 posts)
Fri Aug 31, 2012, 07:57 PM Aug 2012

Why do leftists let other people physically bully them around???

These people weren't even cops. They were Rmoney drones.

What, is it illegal now to push back when someone pushes you???



http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/08/31/immigration-and-lgbt-activists-attacked-at-romneyryan-event/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheRawStory+%28The+Raw+Story%29

When protesters from immigration and LGBT rights groups spoke up at a rally for the Mitt Romney/Paul Ryan presidential campaign Friday, video showed them quickly getting shouted down and shoved away from the event by Romney supporters.

The demonstration, organized by the DRM Capitol Group, Presente.org and the Get Equal campaign, attacked Romney’s opposition to both the DREAM Act, which would give undocumented immigrants a way to earn permanent citizenship through either good academic performance or joining the U.S. military, and same sex marriage.

“Romney claims that this is a country of immigrants but he wants us to self-deport and he would veto the DREAM Act,” the DRM Capitol Group said in a release. “Those fighting for a more equal America are facing obstruction from a similar cast of characters, led by Mitt Romney. It’s clear that the same people who are perpetrating the war on LGBT Americans are also perpetrating the war on immigrants.”

The DRM group said on its website that its government relations director, Erika Andiola, and an unidentified priest with Get Equal were “roughed up” during the event.

In the short video, protesters chanting at Romney and Ryan from the crowd are first confronted by a white male in a red shirt before another man, wearing a cowboy hat, pushes into them, as the pro-Romney audience starts chanting “USA! USA!” to drown them out.

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Why do leftists let other people physically bully them around??? (Original Post) Zalatix Aug 2012 OP
What do you think they should have done? cali Aug 2012 #1
They shove leftists, leftists shove back. What, do these have more rights than everyone else? Zalatix Aug 2012 #3
Cindy don't take no shit. proud2BlibKansan Sep 2012 #38
Amen to that derby378 Sep 2012 #42
Hey you. proud2BlibKansan Sep 2012 #47
Hear, hear! I totally admire her. Zalatix Sep 2012 #44
Self-defense is never "stupid"... nt Comrade_McKenzie Aug 2012 #13
People who resort to shoving are animals seeking to establish dominance. Zalatix Sep 2012 #45
I am curious - DURHAM D Aug 2012 #2
Done it several times, twice in Oakland. This protest is across the country from me. Zalatix Aug 2012 #4
Way out numbered several thousand to one? DURHAM D Aug 2012 #5
??? Apparent non-sequitur. n/t Egalitarian Thug Aug 2012 #10
The OP got it... DURHAM D Aug 2012 #11
Several thousand to one? How do you figure? Zalatix Sep 2012 #14
I dunno. I had more than my share growing up and had no choice but to fight back. TheKentuckian Aug 2012 #6
You hit the nail right on the head. Zalatix Sep 2012 #29
The story relates a woman and a priest being roughed up standing up for THEIR own rights Bluenorthwest Aug 2012 #7
I'm not white, thank you. Zalatix Sep 2012 #15
I feel like had they "fought back" they'd be slandered as hooligans... joshcryer Sep 2012 #61
Indicative of the problem I've seen since I was a child. Egalitarian Thug Aug 2012 #8
Because they're not assholes arcane1 Aug 2012 #9
If somebody strikes you, you hit them back... Comrade_McKenzie Aug 2012 #12
Don't start it, but definitely finish it. Zalatix Sep 2012 #16
You hit them back twice as hard as they hit you. Frank Cannon Sep 2012 #69
They don't want to get hurt? The don't want to give that sort of image to their cause? nt bemildred Sep 2012 #17
You let people get away with shoving you, you'll only get hurt worse. Zalatix Sep 2012 #19
Judgement is called for. nt bemildred Sep 2012 #24
Is that code for "they're allowed to shove you, but you can't shove back"? Zalatix Sep 2012 #27
who do you think would get arrested? mitchtv Sep 2012 #31
Depends on whether you caught the incident on video. Zalatix Sep 2012 #34
No, but it also means Blue_Tires Sep 2012 #33
I'm not sure your logic makes sense here. Zalatix Sep 2012 #35
No, it's code for think about it before you shove back. bemildred Sep 2012 #48
And people wonder why bullies are so common... Zalatix Sep 2012 #51
That's all right, I know you'll fix it for me soon. nt bemildred Sep 2012 #52
Dunno bout that, but I know bullies are better off picking SOME people as targets over others. Zalatix Sep 2012 #55
Did Jesus confront his bullies? Ashleyshubby Sep 2012 #18
Did Jesus get nailed up? Tom Ripley Sep 2012 #23
There was that incident in the temple with the money-changers. backscatter712 Sep 2012 #32
Absolutely! He also gave his brother a black eye when they were kids Tom Ripley Sep 2012 #37
Why weren't the Perpetrators arrested? If anyone from OWS did anything like that, they sabrina 1 Sep 2012 #20
The police don't serve you. They serve the 1% and the minions of the 1%. Zalatix Sep 2012 #21
Um, do you really think it's wise for people to attack a pack of raging mutant hyenas Zorra Sep 2012 #22
? arely staircase Sep 2012 #25
This leftist/communist WILL shove back......... socialist_n_TN Sep 2012 #26
+1 arely staircase Sep 2012 #41
for the same reason MLKjr didn't endorse Bluerthanblue Sep 2012 #28
Didn't he get shot anyway? Zalatix Sep 2012 #30
yes he did- Bluerthanblue Sep 2012 #36
I'd rather die free than live as someone's prey or slave. Zalatix Sep 2012 #43
I would rather die free as well- Bluerthanblue Sep 2012 #49
People who let themselves get pushed around, never win. Zalatix Sep 2012 #50
The R complex mick063 Sep 2012 #39
Damn, that sounds dead-on accurate. Zalatix Sep 2012 #46
If one of the protesters even breathed on a Romney supporter, it would have been national news ck4829 Sep 2012 #40
I had enough of that when I was around 10 HockeyMom Sep 2012 #53
They're above machoism? joshcryer Sep 2012 #54
The word 'pushover' is not a compliment. Zalatix Sep 2012 #56
Nor is the word macho. joshcryer Sep 2012 #58
Standing up for yourself when someone shoves you is called 'macho' and leads to riots? Zalatix Sep 2012 #62
You already said the bullies win out. joshcryer Sep 2012 #66
Pushing back at bullies is not being a bully. It's called standing up for yourself. Zalatix Sep 2012 #68
If you go into a fight with a bully... joshcryer Sep 2012 #71
I don't. Be at my elbow if shit goes down. alphafemale Sep 2012 #57
Because they are immersed in "anti-authoritarianism." David__77 Sep 2012 #59
This is my favorite picture of an anti-authoritarian 'pushover' as the OP terms them: joshcryer Sep 2012 #60
Your picture shows peaceful non-violent protesters getting pepper sprayed. Zalatix Sep 2012 #63
My picture shows peaceful protestors not reacting violently to force. joshcryer Sep 2012 #65
And they're still getting their asses kicked and they achieved nothing. Zalatix Sep 2012 #67
Ooh, OK, so it's only certain kinds of bully. joshcryer Sep 2012 #70
Nobody pushes me around. neeksgeek Sep 2012 #64
 

cali

(114,904 posts)
1. What do you think they should have done?
Fri Aug 31, 2012, 08:00 PM
Aug 2012

met stupid violence with more stupid violence? Just what are you advocating?

 

Zalatix

(8,994 posts)
3. They shove leftists, leftists shove back. What, do these have more rights than everyone else?
Fri Aug 31, 2012, 08:04 PM
Aug 2012

Are leftists second-class citizens here or what?

This is how you handle your business when you are confronted by bullies:

&feature=related

That asshole in that video? He went to lengths to avoid being identified after that incident. People stood up to him and he tried to keep himself anonymous. (He probably failed, too.)
 

Zalatix

(8,994 posts)
45. People who resort to shoving are animals seeking to establish dominance.
Sat Sep 1, 2012, 05:15 PM
Sep 2012

You don't let an animal establish dominance. Appeasement never works.

TheKentuckian

(24,949 posts)
6. I dunno. I had more than my share growing up and had no choice but to fight back.
Fri Aug 31, 2012, 08:07 PM
Aug 2012

Of course we have an element that takes pride in being mealy mouthed, passive, and run over.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
7. The story relates a woman and a priest being roughed up standing up for THEIR own rights
Fri Aug 31, 2012, 08:23 PM
Aug 2012

and you are, no offense, a white guy co-opting them as 'leftists' while your own leftist while male peers keep sending women and ministers to the front lines only to be lectured later on what should have happened by those who stayed home?
I reject your notion that responding to violence in kind is wise. Goading others to do that shit is wrong, and I reject that as well.

 

Zalatix

(8,994 posts)
15. I'm not white, thank you.
Sat Sep 1, 2012, 02:51 PM
Sep 2012

And I protested in Oakland with Occupy. This protest is across the country from me. I don't send people out to the front lines for me, either.

joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
61. I feel like had they "fought back" they'd be slandered as hooligans...
Sat Sep 1, 2012, 07:14 PM
Sep 2012

...or worse "PSYOPS" / "false flag" / provocateurs.

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
8. Indicative of the problem I've seen since I was a child.
Fri Aug 31, 2012, 08:45 PM
Aug 2012

To advocate for the underdog seems to require having, at one time or another, been an underdog and that experience seems to set up an ingrained reaction to unthinkingly submit to aggression. Submission and obedience have been the primary, foundational responses taught to us since birth and almost all of us react accordingly at (almost?) an instinctual level. I've found this to be very useful in my professional life even as it depresses me.

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
9. Because they're not assholes
Fri Aug 31, 2012, 08:45 PM
Aug 2012

edited to add: it's not being an asshole to push back, it's being an asshole to push in the first place

 

Comrade_McKenzie

(2,526 posts)
12. If somebody strikes you, you hit them back...
Fri Aug 31, 2012, 10:57 PM
Aug 2012

I'm 6'4" and weigh 300 pounds. If one of these pukes come after me, I will rip them to shreds.

 

Zalatix

(8,994 posts)
19. You let people get away with shoving you, you'll only get hurt worse.
Sat Sep 1, 2012, 03:12 PM
Sep 2012

And please, explain why the Right Wingers' image isn't harmed when they initiate the shoving, but somehow the leftists' image is tarnished if they shove back? Why is that? I've asked this question in similar situations before... why is it okay for one group to initiate physical aggression but the other is forbidden to do so?

That's bullshit. Someone shoves you, you shove back. Cindy Sheehan proved that.

 

Zalatix

(8,994 posts)
34. Depends on whether you caught the incident on video.
Sat Sep 1, 2012, 03:52 PM
Sep 2012

Sheehan's people didn't get arrested for pushing that big bully back for slapping away a megaphone.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
33. No, but it also means
Sat Sep 1, 2012, 03:52 PM
Sep 2012

You have to recognize when you're being baited into something and stay above it...

In my younger days I had a rep as someone who was very easy to dupe into fights, and people were able to push my buttons for the hell of it...And trust me, when the dust settles, no one is gonna give a shit who supposedly started what first...

 

Zalatix

(8,994 posts)
35. I'm not sure your logic makes sense here.
Sat Sep 1, 2012, 03:53 PM
Sep 2012

He shoves you and it's okay, but if you shove back, how does that magically become wrong, yet the first shoving wasn't?

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
48. No, it's code for think about it before you shove back.
Sat Sep 1, 2012, 06:30 PM
Sep 2012

You are welcome to follow your instincts, I prefer to think first.

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
32. There was that incident in the temple with the money-changers.
Sat Sep 1, 2012, 03:51 PM
Sep 2012

Jesus opened up a can of whoop-ass on them!

 

Tom Ripley

(4,945 posts)
37. Absolutely! He also gave his brother a black eye when they were kids
Sat Sep 1, 2012, 03:58 PM
Sep 2012

"Mom thinks you can do wrong!"
"Why you..."
POW!

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
20. Why weren't the Perpetrators arrested? If anyone from OWS did anything like that, they
Sat Sep 1, 2012, 03:16 PM
Sep 2012

would be in jail and accused of terrorism.

The people were victims of an assault. If they had fought back, THEY would be arrested. The police are supposed to protect people exercising their 1st Amendment rights. Isn't that one of the reasons for the army of heavily-armed robo cops, tanks, National Guard etc? To protect law-abiding citizens?

Or maybe not!

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
22. Um, do you really think it's wise for people to attack a pack of raging mutant hyenas
Sat Sep 1, 2012, 03:21 PM
Sep 2012

that greatly outnumber them if there is a possibility that they may escape with their lives by not attacking them?

And don't forget, the zookeepers are on the side of the hyenas in this particular zoo.

It's a total lose-lose for the homo sapiens team.

Discretion is often the better part of valor.

socialist_n_TN

(11,481 posts)
26. This leftist/communist WILL shove back.........
Sat Sep 1, 2012, 03:30 PM
Sep 2012

Whether it's political or personal doesn't matter. I'm not a pacifist. And yes I've been out there a lot.

Bluerthanblue

(13,669 posts)
28. for the same reason MLKjr didn't endorse
Sat Sep 1, 2012, 03:41 PM
Sep 2012

or use violence in response to the violence targeted at him.

Non violent protest works. It requires a lot out of those who employ it, but it IS the answer in the end.

The spiral of meeting violence with violence only brings us farther away from where we need to be.

Bluerthanblue

(13,669 posts)
36. yes he did-
Sat Sep 1, 2012, 03:56 PM
Sep 2012

but he and his movement and ideas live on.

You can 'shove back' and get yourself killed just as quickly if not more so than Rev.King did Zalatix.
Violence is never a good 'answer' to anything. It requires a deep commitment and willingness to risk everything for what you believe, but that doesn't mean it isn't the answer.

What does it say about your beliefs if you are willing to kill for them, but not die for them???

 

Zalatix

(8,994 posts)
43. I'd rather die free than live as someone's prey or slave.
Sat Sep 1, 2012, 05:12 PM
Sep 2012

I'm not going to spend my life being shoved around with impunity. You're going to die anyway.

Dr. King's death set back the African American fight for equality permanently; they have yet to recover from that.

Bluerthanblue

(13,669 posts)
49. I would rather die free as well-
Sat Sep 1, 2012, 06:32 PM
Sep 2012

and for me that means not allowing someone else to dictate my actions.

I believe violence is counterproductive and not a means of positive change.

I disagree with you on the impact of Dr. King's death. You see it as 'them winning'- but they didn't. They may have killed his body, but they didn't kill the movement, the ideal or the truth that the best way to change the system is NOT by bullying, force or mindless violence, but by non-violent civil disobedience and being willing to stand together and stand true to your beliefs.

Violence has been the way our society has tried to handle everything for so long, and where has it gotten us?

You are absolutely right, we are all going to die someday anyway. I don't think dying for a cause is the worst way to leave this earth.

 

Zalatix

(8,994 posts)
50. People who let themselves get pushed around, never win.
Sat Sep 1, 2012, 06:39 PM
Sep 2012

Inescapable law of nature.

Dr. King's death did kill the black movement.

Non-violent civil disobedience? That hardly even works against the police, they throw you in jail anyway and the media STILL crucifies you. It most CERTAINLY will not work against violent ruffians who will simply come back and hurt you worse later.

You have a right to defend yourself.

 

mick063

(2,424 posts)
39. The R complex
Sat Sep 1, 2012, 04:14 PM
Sep 2012
link

Reptilian complex

The reptilian complex, also known as the R-complex or "reptilian brain" was the name MacLean gave to the basal ganglia, structures derived from the floor of the forebrain during development. The term derives from the fact that comparative neuroanatomists once believed that the forebrains of reptiles and birds were dominated by these structures. MacLean proposed that the reptilian complex was responsible for species typical instinctual behaviors involved in aggression, dominance, territoriality, and ritual displays.


R just doesn't stand for Republican.

I actually believe this and am not joking. If the R complex dominates your behavior, you will readily identify with the GOP agenda.

N Complex

Neomammalian complex

The neomammalian complex consists of the cerebral neocortex, a structure found uniquely in mammals. MacLean regarded its addition as the most recent step in the evolution of the mammilian brain, conferring the ability for language, abstraction, planning, and perception.


I actually believe that folks with a dominant N complex are compassionate and wish to help those in need. I personally believe they tend to be progressive.

By their nature they wish to avoid conflict and use reason and logic to solve problems as opposed to aggressive tactics.

The left vs right is about brain chemistry. I actually do believe this.

ck4829

(34,977 posts)
40. If one of the protesters even breathed on a Romney supporter, it would have been national news
Sat Sep 1, 2012, 04:21 PM
Sep 2012

If Romney supporters used baseball bats, there might have been a mention of it being an "even fight".

People are wising up to the 'liberal media.'

 

HockeyMom

(14,337 posts)
53. I had enough of that when I was around 10
Sat Sep 1, 2012, 06:47 PM
Sep 2012

being not only female, but tiny, I got sick of being picked on, bullied, and even patted on the head. Either taken advantage of, or "isn't she cute?", when she is 30 years old? Oh, the stories I could tell, but I don't bore you.

No, I learned a long time ago to not take it.

joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
58. Nor is the word macho.
Sat Sep 1, 2012, 07:06 PM
Sep 2012

If everyone behaved as you wish then regular gatherings would turn into nasty riots every time one single person got shoved rudely.

 

Zalatix

(8,994 posts)
62. Standing up for yourself when someone shoves you is called 'macho' and leads to riots?
Sat Sep 1, 2012, 08:03 PM
Sep 2012

That's prey logic you're subscribing to. Not to mention totally unrealistic.

If everyone behaved as you wish, the bullies of the world would be living in paradise. The rest of us? Under their thumb. PERPETUALLY.

 

Zalatix

(8,994 posts)
68. Pushing back at bullies is not being a bully. It's called standing up for yourself.
Sat Sep 1, 2012, 08:48 PM
Sep 2012

Know. The. Difference.

joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
71. If you go into a fight with a bully...
Sat Sep 1, 2012, 09:07 PM
Sep 2012

...with the full intention of fighting and then fight that bully, you are no different than the bully.

 

alphafemale

(18,497 posts)
57. I don't. Be at my elbow if shit goes down.
Sat Sep 1, 2012, 07:06 PM
Sep 2012

Nobody near me is getting physically bullied by a shit hole. Not without the attacker regretting lost blood.

Oh...Hell no.

There are ways to avoid a physical confrontation....most of the time.

But even Shaolin Monks know know to snap somebody's neck if it comes to that.

David__77

(23,220 posts)
59. Because they are immersed in "anti-authoritarianism."
Sat Sep 1, 2012, 07:07 PM
Sep 2012

So many shrink from understanding the politics is about the capture and exercise of power. They want consensus where there should be discipline.

joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
60. This is my favorite picture of an anti-authoritarian 'pushover' as the OP terms them:
Sat Sep 1, 2012, 07:12 PM
Sep 2012


I see plenty of discipline there.
 

Zalatix

(8,994 posts)
63. Your picture shows peaceful non-violent protesters getting pepper sprayed.
Sat Sep 1, 2012, 08:05 PM
Sep 2012

You're hurting your case here.

 

Zalatix

(8,994 posts)
67. And they're still getting their asses kicked and they achieved nothing.
Sat Sep 1, 2012, 08:47 PM
Sep 2012

Except, of course, they achieved the status of prey.

Also, my OP was about non-police bullies. Totally different issue. I don't ever have to back down from pushing and shoving by people who aren't law enforcement. When you degrade yourself to doing that, you are prey.

neeksgeek

(1,214 posts)
64. Nobody pushes me around.
Sat Sep 1, 2012, 08:19 PM
Sep 2012

I don't get physical, but I know how to block a punch. And I will cheerfully, aggressively tell them off in no uncertain terms. I learned how to make someone want get far away from me as quickly as possible when I got tired of being bullied in high school.

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