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Sat Sep 21, 2019, 11:31 AM

California can win the war Trump just started

Heard EPA head Scott Pruitt on NPR last night saying California never had good cause to impose higher mileage standards or regulate CO2.

He also conceded California can regulate pollution, just not COO.

So here's my idea - listen up Senators and Assembly Members and Governor Newsome - ban the internal combustion engine in California. Install charging stations everywhere and let all new cars be electric, or hydrogen powered.

Fossil fuel pushers are always crying that people love their I.C.E. cars. I, for one, don't. Electric cars are faster, cleaner, and simpler to maintain. I'd love one if only I had a place to charge it.

And those Toyota Murai hydrogen fuel cell (i.e., electric) cars are fast, too. And fillable at a station - very little wait.

These things are already here. All we need is a little infrastructure investment.

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Arrow 13 replies Author Time Post
Reply California can win the war Trump just started (Original post)
ArcticFox Sep 2019 OP
PoindexterOglethorpe Sep 2019 #1
ArcticFox Sep 2019 #2
PoindexterOglethorpe Sep 2019 #4
ArcticFox Sep 2019 #10
PoindexterOglethorpe Sep 2019 #11
Initech Sep 2019 #3
ArcticFox Sep 2019 #8
lame54 Sep 2019 #5
ArcticFox Sep 2019 #6
lame54 Sep 2019 #7
ArcticFox Sep 2019 #9
meow2u3 Sep 2019 #12
ArcticFox Sep 2019 #13

Response to ArcticFox (Original post)

Sat Sep 21, 2019, 11:56 AM

1. And what would be the time frame

for the switchover of cars?

I know that electric cars are the future, but right now they're far more expensive than I can afford, and I recently paid cash for a two year old Honda Fit, so I'm hardly the poorest person out there.

Plus, how quickly do any of them recharge? Anything longer than 15 minutes (and I believe several hours is common) and my two times a year trip to Kansas would take four days.

This is an interesting idea, just not feasible.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #1)

Sat Sep 21, 2019, 01:39 PM

2. All new cars

Immediately. Folks could still drive used cars, but over time they'd fade away

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Response to ArcticFox (Reply #2)

Sat Sep 21, 2019, 02:42 PM

4. So you think they should require all new cars to be only electric cars, right?

I'm guessing then that about 95% of Californians would be unable to purchase a new car, given that electric cars are currently about 4% of the market in that state, which is a higher percentage than anywhere else. That's clearly a good idea.

Or maybe enterprising car dealers would set up lots just across the border in Arizona, Oregon, and Nevada so as to sell new gas engine cars to Californians. Or they'd figure out some kind of scheme to make a new car a used car.

Given how small a percentage of the market electric cars currently are, your suggestion is supremely impractical.

Yes, as I said above, electric cars are the future, and if I ever purchase another car (a bit iffy, given that I'm 71 and bought a car last year) it may well be electric. Or at least a hybrid. But fixing it so that most people can't possibly buy a new car in that state? Not a good idea.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #4)

Sat Sep 21, 2019, 03:36 PM

10. The are ways to help people out

Financial aid, e.g. And with economy of scale and tech advances, by the time the fuel burning cars became unavailable on the used market, electric cars would be far cheaper.

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Response to ArcticFox (Reply #10)

Sat Sep 21, 2019, 07:51 PM

11. But if California made a law in the very near future

forbidding the sale of new gas powered cars, it would impose a huge burden on a lot of people.

Every time I read happy posts saying everyone needs to buy an electric car now, I find myself listing the drawbacks. Most of them are very expensive. The cheapest Tesla is currently $70,000, and even though they're touting that a new model is going to come in at $39k (and that's probably the base price. To include a steering wheel and four tires will probably add another 20%) which is a great deal more than I have ever paid for a car.

Plus, the range limit. Until they figure out how to recharge an electric car as quickly as a gas car can be refilled, that's a no go for anyone who takes long drives. As I may have mentioned, I drive from Santa Fe to Kansas City a couple of times a year, also to Tucson, to Denver, maybe a couple of other drives that are well beyond the range of the best so far of the electric cars. Even the fastest recharge is 30 minutes. Most recharges are several hours, up to 8 or more hours. I'm thinking that would make my trip to Kansas take three or four days each way. Really?

Don't get me wrong. I'm quite eager for electric cars that realistically replace gas cars. I even got solar panels on my roof installed back in June. I don't drive gas-guzzlers, never have. My current car is a Fit. I've driven Honda Civics, VW bugs, a couple of Subarus and one Infiniti G20. All pretty fuel efficient. In fact, every time I see something that says when the price of gas pulls back a bit Americans buy more SUVs I'm driven crazy. The vast majority of SUV owners have no need for a vehicle like that.

Perhaps to address your comment more directly, it will be 30 years or so before gas cars are no longer available on the secondary market, even if only electric cars are sold starting next year. And since electric cars are currently such a tiny fraction of the market, it will probably be a decade or more before even 50% of new cars are electric.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe there will be a huge leap in the technology within five years or so, in which case my next car might possibly be an electric. If and only if I can take my long drives in as short a time as I currently do, meaning the re-charging has to get down to gas-refilling time.

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Response to ArcticFox (Original post)

Sat Sep 21, 2019, 01:44 PM

3. I'd love to see alternative fuel cars become a thing.

But from what I've seen and what actual auto dealers have said is that it looks like electric and hybrid electric is ultimately going to win over hydrogen fuel cell. The station network just isn't there and there's not a lot of reason to heavily invest in it. Whereas electric is renewable and they can be charged just about anywhere.

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Response to Initech (Reply #3)

Sat Sep 21, 2019, 03:18 PM

8. There are a few hydrogen stations around LA and OC,

But I'm not sure how difficult it would be to put one on every corner. On the other hand, all it takes to make hydrogen is water and electricity. Maybe using innovation, we could get home fueling systems.

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Response to ArcticFox (Original post)

Sat Sep 21, 2019, 03:03 PM

5. Can i trade my new car in for a freebie or...

Do i have to scrap it

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Response to lame54 (Reply #5)

Sat Sep 21, 2019, 03:14 PM

6. Nah, you could keep it as long as you want

Then sell it used to someone that can't afford or doesn't want electric or hydrogen

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Response to ArcticFox (Reply #6)

Sat Sep 21, 2019, 03:16 PM

7. As gas stations close around me...

I guess it has to start somewhere

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Response to lame54 (Reply #7)

Sat Sep 21, 2019, 03:20 PM

9. If it doesn't start soon

Then we're all goners. We need to stop burning fossil fuels, and yesterday

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Response to ArcticFox (Original post)

Sat Sep 21, 2019, 08:49 PM

12. There are no charging or hydrogen stations where I live

Nor is there reliable public transportation, so I'm stuck driving a 17 year old car where I need to go.

Besides, electric cars are far beyond my means.

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Response to meow2u3 (Reply #12)

Sat Sep 21, 2019, 11:25 PM

13. So, how do we stop dumping co2 into the atmosphere?

I mean, if we can't even imagine changing things, do we just give up and let the world fo to hell? Literally burning hell? Because that's where we're going with burning all the ancient forests

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