Facebook meme: 'If you can afford beer...you don't need food stamps or welfare'

[alp227]

It's from a Facebook conservative page "100 percent FED up" whose mission is: "We will not fall victim to the liberal message of the main stream media, Hollywood and its subversive messaging, divisive liberal activists and politicians. They have an agenda...and it doesn't include Life, Liberty or the Pursuit of your Happiness!" Friend just shared this graphic.

What would be a rational response to this nonsense, besides "So you're just going to let them starve to death?"

[jaysunb]

1. Friend ??? n/t

[LeftyMom]

2. I bet I know your FB friend's DU name.

[alp227]

4. Oh yeah I've seen even DUers state this POV.

Like in this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002863937

[enough]

3. May they all achieve the state they are projecting here. (nt)

[MotherPetrie]

5. Seriously, how can you argue with it?

I'm a firm believer in providing for the poor and I believe no one should go to bed hungry because they can't afford to buy food.

But if my tax dollars are helping to feed your hungry mouth, it better NOT be because you are blowing what money you do have that you could use to buy your own food on unnecessary luxuries like booze, cigarettes, manicures, and tattoos.

I'm as liberal as they come and I do object to that.

[GaYellowDawg]

9. I second this.

It's a good point. The other side isn't going to be wrong 100% of the time.

[Mmm_Bacon]

39. Agreed...

... buy what you like but don't do it with public (yours and mine and other taxpayer) funds.

[nobodyspecial]

70. You can't buy cigarettes or booze with your food stamp card

Manicure and tattoo parlors don't accept food stamp cards either so I guess this really isn't an issue.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

115. very nice job of missing the point... n/t

[Green_Lantern]

175. you can easily get around that ....

Buy food using the card, sell the food for a cheaper price, then pocket the money.

[Ellipsis]

87. No bacon for you then because bacon is unhealthy.... unhealthier then beer

and get rid of those M&M's while your at it.

[Mmm_Bacon]

121. It's ok...

I have a job. I can buy all the bacon I like.

[Ellipsis]

163. Why not both?

[Mmm_Bacon]

170. Breakfast of champions

[Number_9]

201. Delicious...

[mercuryblues]

138. Well If they can't have beer

what do 99.6% of poor people need refrigerators for?

[Curtland1015]

11. If you're poor, you don't deserve even a moment of pleasure.

Got it.

[tjdee]

20. I hate that kind of thinking (I know you do too)

I got into a heated argument with two of my friends who are voting for Obama. I just do not understand why people are really upset when the poor have a frickin beer!

God forbid they take time out of their miserable life to get their nails done or have something that others have. If all they have in their lives is a manicure, JESUS...... people can be so cruel.

[Honeycombe8]

34. I agree with the other posters above, except an occasional beer is okay. But manicures...

and tattoos, that's pretty frivolous stuff. I make a decent living, but I've always done my nails myself. A manicure is just too expensive and unnecessary, since it's so easy to do it yourself.

But having a beer now and then, I totally think that's fine. Some people have a drinking problem, though, and will blow all their money on booze, if they have food stamps for food. I don't think that's common, though. And no reason to prevent others from getting food stamps because SOME choose to squander their $ on foolish things.

Just like some people will blow their whole paycheck at the racetrack. Some people have problems with addiction. That's their business. But when you ask someone else to pay for it, the thing is, it then becomes their business.

[tjdee]

73. Thing is, people assume poor people are alcoholics who spent their welfare money on iPhones.

Instead of realizing that someone may have bought their iPhone when they had a paying job, and that they get a six-pack every weekend.

I have a number of friends who all happen to know people on welfare who cheat the system (they ALL live in the suburbs sighhhhh) and they are forever irritated about the cell phones. Poor people should NOT HAVE MEANS TO COMMUNICATE WITH OTHERS!

Sigh.

[Honeycombe8]

78. As a practical matter, I don't think it's possible to police what people spend their own $ on.

You just have to accept that some people do stupid things, and some don't.

I'm okay with some beer and definitely a cell phone. But first thing I'd do if I lost my job is cancel any contract phone and get a pre-paid. Costs waaaaaay less and the phone quality is the same or better (sound quality and phone reception). But I'm frugal, anyway. I make a decent living, as I said, and I've only ever had a prepaid cell phone. I won't do the contract thing or get a so-called smart phone. And definitely not any Apple product!

[tjdee]

161. But you'd be thinking you'd get another job right?

I got a lot of attitude from everyone for not selling/trading in my new car when I got laid off. But I figured I'd be working again soon and it was hard enough to get the car in the first place. Four years later I'm still not paid off on the car, but I'm also not driving a used car that would have cost me thousands in repairs.

Already have a prepaid cellphone Clearly a cellphone is different, but if you lose your job, you are optimistic that you'll get another one--not that you have to sell all your belongings and live like a bum in case you don't work for 4 years. People try to hang on to what they have. I've never heard a person get laid off, come home that night and say 'well, we have to sell the house and the car and cancel the cable".

But I do think you're right (and have gone way off point), it's just not possible to police people.

[Honeycombe8]

169. Yes, I would live like a bum, in case I didn't find new employment.

But I don't think of it as living like a bum. Maybe that's the difference between my viewpoint and others. I live frugally, anyway, and would become super frugal, if unemployed.

I'd need reliable transportation, a reliable cell phone (for calls from prospective employers, and for emergencies), health insurance, bare minimum of healthy food, dog food and treats (not expensive brands), haircut at Supercuts ($18), hair color (I do it myself). That's about it. Coupons, sales become very important.

But when I was unemployed I had three plans: Plan A - I'd get a job fairly quickly; Plan B - if I didn't get a job in a few months, I'd move on to temp work (I planned out years ago to live in a place with robust temp work); Plan C - If the temp work didn't pan out, I'd live on my 401k while fixing up my house, sell my house, and move to a cheeeeep nearby small city where I could get low wage employment (leaving my vocation behind) and live more cheaply than here (altho the cost of living here is lower than the nat'l avg), where I would live the rest of my life pinching pennies and gardening.

I got a job fairly quickly, so I was lucky. And I was glad that I had not spent more money than absolutely necessary while unemployed, because my new salary was nowhere near what I had before. But that's okay. I'm pretty happy. I won't need to be there THAT long before I move on to ...well, something else.

[lumberjack_jeff]

164. It is very possible to police how much "of their own money" they get in public assistance.

I don't like treating people like kids, but many grown ups have a very juvenile approach to money.

If the public can't dictate that the assistance they give is spent consistently with the intent, the obvious solution is to give less. I don't agree that public assistance is too generous, but I do agree that it's often spent badly, and that merchants exploit poor money skills.

[avebury]

144. I don't assume that just because a woman has

nice looking nails that she paid for a manicure. If is possible that a woman can actually do her own nails or that friends do each others nails. Nice looking nails is part of good grooming that might help a woman give a better impression in a job interview.

[reformist2]

76. It is cruel - especially when there are no jobs. Why do people want to punish them?

[Skittles]

114. that is how I read it

essentially, you're just garbage that should be happy to simply exist

[lumberjack_jeff]

162. It isn't that.

I want my government to provide proper nutrition, adequate housing and good education to the poor. A casual look around suggests that it's not doing the job.

I'm with the poster who thinks it's counterproductive to argue this point. It isn't a matter of being cheap, it's a matter of public policy that doesn't achieve the goals.

[progressivebydesign]

177. I'd get more pleasure out of having more food and things for my child..

than drinking, and smoking, and spending money on tatts.

[MotherPetrie]

189. Obviously, you don't get it. I'm not poor, but i have priorities for how I spend my money.

I provide for my NECESSITIES first. If I have money left over, I splurge.

Booze, cigarettes, tattoos and manicures are SPLURGES, not necessities. You don't spend food money on them. If you do, get your own damn food money.

[Terra Alta]

15. so poor people can't have a few luxuries every now and then?

Poor people deserve to have fun, too. I'm a tax-paying citizen and it doesn't bother me at all if people receiving government assistance use their money for beer, cigarette, etc. Also, without knowing a person's situation, you shouldn't judge them.

[Honeycombe8]

36. Manicures and tattoos? Hmmmmm. I give myself my own manicures...they're too expensive

and unnecessary to have done. But I can't imagine there's a problem with food stamp recipients getting manicures.

[Terra Alta]

53. If they want a tattoo or a manicure

and they have a little extra money to get it, why not? I can't tell people how to spend their money. As long as children's needs aren't being neglected, it's really none of my business.

[Honeycombe8]

79. I wouldn't like it, because I'm paying for their food, and I think manicures are a stupid way to

spend money, even if you have it. They're expensive, unnecessary, and incredibly easy to do yourself. Tattoos are even worse.

But I don't see how you stop that...we don't want to start following food stamp recipients around.

And like I said, I think this is a made up "problem." I seriously doubt there's a line of food stamp recipients down at the local nail shop.

[Whisp]

155. it upsets me much more that the Rmoneys of the world fuck us over by stealing billions

I laugh at the ridiculousness of 'I'm paying for their food and I think....'

This just shows that some people are hardwired to fuck everyone else over, even if it's about a food stamp. Got to be in the power chair wagging fingers at people 'less' than you think you are. Same dam shit as Ann does.

jezus cripes.

[Terra Alta]

165. I work and pay taxes too

so I'm paying for their food, as well -- and I won't begrudge them if they want to splurge a little with what little money they have. I do agree with you though, that very few of them actually do.

[BarackTheVote]

174. Tattoo artists and mannicurists

need to make money, too!

[DBoon]

81. and poor people are supposed to look bad

no manicure, heck they would probably begrudge them a haircut.

And if you bath, make sure you use really cheap soap. Shampoo is a luxury, just use soap to wash your hair as well. You don't want to look nice or smell too clean - someone might think you are wasting your welfare check on luxuries.

Buy all your clothes used, make sure they don't fit too well and look ragged - someone might accuse you of mis-using welfare money. And don't ever think of buying that designer article you found at the thrift shop - you wouldn't want some surly right-winger thinking you abused taxpayer money.

[Honeycombe8]

137. I do most of those things you seem to think are hardships.

No manicure? Absolutely not. They're ridiculously expensive, while you sit on your butt having someone do something that is ridiculously easy for you to do yourself. I can afford but would NEVER pay for such a service any more than I'd pay for someone to wash my feet.

Cheap soap? Absolutely. None of that soap in a bottle stuff. Too expensive. Bars of Dial or glycerin soap for pennies each. One bar of soap will last me at least a year.

Used clothes? I buy mainly new clothes (usu. on sale or from cheap places...a lot of my work pants and tops come from Target; my yoga pants came from WalMart), but there are clothing resale shops that are GREAT. I have a quality navy cord jacket, a cashmere navy sweater, two Ralph Lauren tops, and other clothes I got from resale shops. I have really old casual pants I love, Ralph Lauren, I got on clearance sale a couple of decades ago. This IS the way to shop for clothes, if you're not rich.

My new coat...I researched online a LOT. I tried on many coats at stores. I ordered, then returned, cashmere/wool coats from Penney's. I found THE coat...Anne Klein, maxi length, black, with a hood...retail several hundred dollars...I found it on Overstock.com, but hate to order something like that online...then I found it at Burlington for $100. GREAT DEAL! AWESOME WINTER COAT that will last me the rest of my life.

Food? I don't buy expensive food, usually. I buy food at Target, WalMart food store, and I have a membership at Sams so I can buy apples and a few things like that in large bags. Expensive face creams - Sams happens to carry the ROC brand, so that's where I get it. It's pricey, but less than other places.

Frugality is a way of life for some, whether you have money or not. Premium channels? No way. Pay a monthly fee for a DVR? No way. But I splurged and did buy a DVR from WalMart. No monthly fee. And I bought a DVD recorder years ago. So I can record anything on my 2 tvs.

Just bought my first laptop last holiday season. My desktop is 9 years old, not wireless, so it took me awhile before I decided a laptop was worthwhile. Still have my old desktop.

Cell phone - no contracts for me. They're ripoffs. I have had a prepaid Tracfone for years. It's excellent.

Apple products - they're expensive and have proprietary apps and stuff. So I refuse to buy them. But I DID buy the stock, since I believe that others will continue to buy those products. My stock is up 17%.

And on and on. Being frugal is something to be PROUD of, not something to be ashamed of. The goal: to spend as little money as possible while still living a good life.

[forthemiddle]

166. beer, tattoos, and even manicures are not every day purchases for most

I do have a little problem with the cigarettes though.
I quit smoking last year, after a 30 year, pack a day habit, because it became way too expensive. I make a decent salary, and would never (at this point in my life) qualify for food stamps, so I am not trying to preach, but I bet the average smoker is spending $50.00 a week like I was on cigs.
I quit because it was becoming more and more expensive. And I don't think asking those on food stamps to quit (Medicaid should pay for cessation tools) is too much.
This does not pertain to the occasional beer, a manicure every 4-6 weeks (usually only about $30.00 in my area), and tattoos I have no idea, so I won't comment either way.
I don't think it is too much to ask people that are accepting government help (for whatever reason) to follow some rules, and I personally (from past experience) think that an ongoing smoking habit is too expensive to justify.

[MotherPetrie]

190. If they're getting money from me, damn right I'm going to judge them.

[Terra Alta]

204. wow, what a compassionate post.

Until you become poor enough to use food stamps, you have no room to judge those who do.

[Marrah_G]

224. Yuck

off to ignore you go. I find your point of view just awful.

[LeftyMom]

17. God forbid somebody with a difficult life do something for themselves, ever.

Relaxing is for their betters.

[Missycim]

126. I relax doing free things

I dont need to spend money to do it.

[LeftyMom]

159. That's nice, do you want a cookie?

Oh wait, cookies cost money.

[Missycim]

168. If you go to the dark side

they have free cookies or so I'm told.

[MotherPetrie]

191. They are called FOOD STAMPS. Not booze stamps, not cigarette stamps, not tatoo or manicure stamps.

[Terra Alta]

203. Food stamps can't be used to buy booze, or cigarettes, or anything else

but FOOD. And not even all food, they can't buy prepared food with EBT cards.

[LeftyMom]

219. That's why THEY CAN'T BUY ANY OF THOSE THINGS.

Buy a damned clue.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

22. How about this?

Since you have no IDEA when this person got the tats, you really have no IDEA if he/she didn't get them before losing their job.

Cigarettes are an addiction fueled by government subsidies. Some medical research indicates it's just as difficult to quit heroin as it is to quit nicotine. Expecting someone to go "cold turkey" because they lost a job is a little unreasonable. And for all you know, that person was a two-pack-a-day smoker who HAS, in fact, whittled down to 3-4 smokes per day.

Manicures? If you're job hunting, depending on the type of job you're trying to land, a manicure and a decent haircut are probably essential.

For Christ's sake, these people are long-term unemployed. They don't need your judgement shit.

[Honeycombe8]

37. I agree on the cigarettes (as a former smoker). But they will probably cut down to the minimum...

and maybe change to chewing tobacco, which is cheaper.

[Habibi]

54. +1

Thank you. The number of people who think they know the situations of a number of other people and are therefore qualified to judge just boggles the mind.

[gollygee]

23. It's incredibly simplistic

Tattoos are a one-time expense. You can get them and THEN need food stamps or welfare later.

Cigarettes are addictive. How nice it would be if addictions didn't work the way they do. Someone having an addiction does not mean they don't still have to eat. Hopefully they would work on getting off cigarettes to save money, and most poor people I know do at least work on that if they smoke.

Beer is not a continual expense, unless you have an addiction. People on food stamps or welfare might watch a sport and drink a beer every so often without it being a big enough expense to cut them off all government help.

For cigarettes and lots of alcohol, what would make more sense is help overcoming addiction.

I don't know how many people on welfare get expensive manicures. I think that's a total fabrication, honestly. Maybe if they were getting married or going on a job interview or something.

The whole argument is a way to create and perpetuate a stereotype of people on foodstamps, that they're sitting back wasting money. The fact is, they aren't getting much. And poverty isn't always a think where you constantly have absolutely nothing. Poor people often have a little bit of money, then have none and are really struggling, then have a little bit, then have none. They'll only be able to find part-time work and somtimes get a decent amount of hours, and then at other times get very few. But people expect them to be finance wizards and do better than anyone else on the planet at budgeting their small amount of money, or they supposedly don't really need it.

[eShirl]

49. They have to get manicures to match their fur coats and the limosines

they ride to go buy expensive cuts of steak with their food stamps.

[GoCubsGo]

51. One can give oneself a manicure for next to nothing.

A nail file costs about a buck. I have seen nail polish and fake nails on the clearance rack in drugstores and at Target for under a buck. And I know plenty of people whose nails are strong enough that they can grow them into little daggers, so they don't even need the fake nails. I suppose that people who are well off enough to afford regular manicures don't understand that one doesn't have to pay someone else to do that.

I agree that this is a bullshit meme. The best way I can reply to crap like that is to say that I can't get bent out of shape over some poor sap on welfare (often military families, BTW) enjoying a beer and cigarettes, when the likes of General Electric, Boeing, Caterpillar , and corporate agribusiness receive billions of dollars in tax subsidies every year, while paying back little and often NOTHING back in taxes on their record profits. Walmart receives hundreds of millions of dollars in various tax breaks and subsidies, their owners are among the richest people on the planet, yet they pay their employees so little that many of them need food stamps. Fuck this shit about bashing welfare recipients.

[hfojvt]

99. "addictions didn't work the way they do"

You mean that it is impossible to quit, so we just need to make excuses for every one who keeps indulging?

It does not take a financial wizard to take a couple simple steps. If you are in a tight spot - 1) don't buy stuff you don't NEED, 2) don't buy expensive stuff, 3) save a little bit.

I think it is kinda simplistic to expect taxpayers to have bottomless pockets and to not care where their money is going.

Sure the whole argument is about cutting funds for assistance, but I don't think you win the argument by digging in your heels and saying "so what if they are buying beer and cigarettes".

I think it is an unfortunate fact that there are too many in our society who want to grab all they can without consideration for anybody else and that it is impossible to create a system that some people will not take advantage of. But if you are helping 7 people who really need it for every 3 people who take some advantage of it, isn't it worthwhile to help those 7?

Further, what is the bigger outrage? A few million going to people who don't really need food stamps? Or $18.35 billion in tax cuts going to the richest 400 people in America? http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/123

[Drahthaardogs]

24. Ah come on, it is all relative.

My parents were school teachers and used to wince when some kid would buy a candy bar but everyone knew he was on free lunch. They winced because they would inevitably hear "Well, he gets free lunch but he can AFFORD a candy bar?".

One day my dad said, "I was a coal miner's son. There were six of us. No one was poorer. Every Tuesday my mother bought us ALL a candy bar. It was one of the few things that they COULD afford to do for US!"

To that end, of course I do not want to see tax dollars paying for someone's alcohol problem, but if a guy wants to buy a couple of beers Friday after work....I do not give a shit.

[SheilaT]

29. I was also one of six.

Fifty years ago this month, my mother packed up the five children still living at home (oldest brother was off in the army by then) and moved us from upstate NY to Tucson, AZ, to get us away from an abusive alcoholic father/husband. It was the best thing she could ever have done for us.

Back then, welfare didn't really exist. But I did get dental work through a local Catholic charity, and I once got a baby-sitting job because my high school knew how much I needed the money.

We had few luxuries or treats, but those few we had were precious.

[Honeycombe8]

38. I agree 'bout the beer. Kick back, forget your troubles, and have a couple of beers with the guys.nt

[Brickbat]

27. Seriously, how can you give a shit?

The issue this graphic describes is so miniscule compared with the misguided spending our government does, it's laughable. It's a meme guaranteed to get the lower classes fighting over crumbs while the bosses eat at the table. And you're falling for it.

But I suspect you know that.

[snappyturtle]

59. E.X.A.C.T.L.Y ! TPTB love pitting the populace against itself because

it distracts attention from engorged defense/pentagon spending.

[anneboleyn]

227. Exactly. Best post in the thread. One can trust that the proletariat will turn on each other

over scraps dropped from the tables of the rich. This urge to punish the poor disgusts me.

[Chemisse]

30. Years ago, when I was a single mom, I was on Welfare

I would buy a 6-pack of beer once a month, on the first when I got my check. It was a special splurge that I could not afford again for a full month.

Perhaps they should have reduced my check by the two or three dollars that beer cost then?

[Skittles]

112. I remember reading about a lawmaker who lived with his family on minimum wage, as a "test"

he acknowledged that of course, he could never know the real fear of lving in poverty but that he did learn something - by cutting back on things, they survived - but he said a lot of what they had to give up was what made life worth living - the little splurges and treats. They never had anything to look forward to.

[Hutzpa]

33. You're not a liberal

you just think you are, my assessment is based on your statement which in my opinion exposes your selfishness. I can't
think of any liberal who will make such a selfish statement.

This is what happens when people buys into the BS sold by the right.

I'm as liberal as they come and I do object to that.

I think you need to revisit what it means to be a liberal.

[Honeycombe8]

43. I think you need to look up the definition of the word. You are out of touch.

Just because someone has a different take on things doesn't make him/her not a liberal.

The issue is not what poor people do or not do...the issue is whether it should be required that others pay for it.

I accept that those two posters agree in concept with it. I do, too, except about the beer. I can see why someone on food stamps would need to kick back and have a couple of beers. But manicures and tattoos are frivolous and unnecessary, and are actually things that most people don't get done. I get paid decently, but I never get manicures. It's easy to do it yourself, and manicures are expensive.

However, I think this is a made up "issue." I doubt there's a problem with hordes of food stamp recipients getting tattoos and manicures.

Drinking, yes. There are a lot of alcoholics in the country. But you can't police what people buy with their own money.

[Hutzpa]

44. Since when did we start monitoring what others do with their money?

where is this all going, when will it end? Why aren't you asking the same question of the military, why aren't you asking
the same question of Wall St? But it is okay to take on the poor and homeless whom you know cannot fight back.

And you have the nerve to tell me I'm out of touch.

[Mmm_Bacon]

122. Out of curiosity...

Are you equating military paychecks to welfare?

You may not be but I was wondering...

[Hutzpa]

200. Since you know I'm not

why ask the question? The military is funded by tax payers money, just as the police. As far as I know I've not
seen any private sponsored military yet. People that claim welfare and the military are on tax payers dime, aren't
they, why should one set be vilified while the other is neglected.

[chloes1]

50. Look, I'll worry

about what poor people do with their TANF and Foodstamps when the military holds a bake sale to buy bombs!

Until then, I refuse to worry about it...

[Care Acutely]

68. BINGO.

excellent answer.

[progressivebydesign]

180. don't lecture people on what it means to be a liberal.

I seriously agree with that commenter. I've been liberal all my life, and I've been on public assistance as a child. And I think that America does have a problem with how it's handled. I'm sick of seeing people spending hundreds a month on cigarettes and booze, then their kids get shortchanged, and the taxpayers pay for the food.

[MotherPetrie]

192. Bullfuckingshit

[Hutzpa]

205. Exactly my point

which is your point is bullfuckingshit.

[WooWooWoo]

46. well, as to your point

I think people should have some small luxury once a month to keep them sane, whether that's a beer or a smoke or whatever. People on welfare deserve to enjoy life's small pleasures too.

But a tattoo or manicure is kinda ridiculous, I agree.

[GoCubsGo]

145. How do you know they didn't give themselves that manicure?

Not everyone goes to nail salons. Most people do their own nails.

[WooWooWoo]

197. i don't think that was the point

the point was you shouldn't spend a welfare check on a manicure at a salon, not that you can't do it yourself.

[unblock]

66. absolutely! i agree, anyone on welfare should be locked up and force-fed nutritious food only!

their entire family should be forced to live a completely virtuous, spartan, and minimalist life under police-state supervision lest one penny of previous tax dollar go towards funding anything which the privileged class deems non-essential.

[Mojorabbit]

94. Hell I got an email from a friend that said

all people on welfare should be drug tested and lose their right to vote among many other punishments. I told her to take me off her email list. I don't want that poison in my inbox.

[cynatnite]

75. I can fucking argue with it quite a bit...

It's none of your business for one thing. For another, how do you know they didn't borrow the money or maybe it was a gift. Maybe it's their fucking birthday. Maybe they cleaned a house and got paid 40 bucks so they splurged.

I'm so sick and fucking tired of this judgmental attitude about how poor people decide to spend money. Assholes want to nickel and dime them and deny them one moment of pleasure. They want to get in their private business and tell them how to live their lives. That's what repukes do and I'm no goddamn repuke.

If someone wants to take a few bucks for a six-pack, a bottle of vodka, or tattoo their boyfriend's name on their ass, it's not my business nor is it yours.

It's bad enough being poor is demonized to the ninth degree, but some people want to push the humiliation further. People like you will never be satisfied until you are telling them what they are allowed to spend their food stamps on.

It fucking sickens me.

[jaded_old_cynic]

217. Thank you.

I am currently on food stamps and I have two degrees! On top of that I am diabetic, and the paltry sum I get from food stamps certainly isn't conducive to my eating very healthily. I am tired of people judging me and my circumstance by the contents of my shopping cart. It is especially hurtful when I hear such rhetoric coming from fellow liberals. No one knows the circumstances behind another's misfortune. As human beings, the only thing we should be concerned about is how we can help one another.

[smokey nj]

221. Well said!

[Marrah_G]

222. +1

[anneboleyn]

229. +1,000,000,000. Brilliantly put! Exactly.

[Ellipsis]

83. Beer is food -- soda on the other hand not so much

Regular Beer

Water 327.4g*
Calories 153*
Alcohol 13.9g*
Protein 1.6g*
Carbohydrate 12.6g*
Fat 0.0g
Cholestrol 0.0g
Calcium 14mg
Magnesium 21mg
Phosphorous 50mg
Potassium 96mg
14mg 11mg
Niacin 2mg
Folate 21mcg

Soda

Sodium 22mg
Potassium 4mg
Total Carbohydrate 36.05g
Sugars 33.76g
Protein 0.26g
Vitamin A 0% Vitamin C 0%
Calcium 0% Iron 0%

[juajen]

120. You cannot buy cigarettes or alcohol with food stamps.

Sure, some people might trade food stamps, but I know a couple of homeless people, and they buy the cheapest cigarettes available, the ones that look like a small cigar, and most of them donate plasma to have money to add to their slim budget. Actually, I believe you can't buy soda either. I'm sure someone knows if the soda is allowable?

[Ellipsis]

158. Soda is... candy is, as well as junk food and coffee.

[backscatter712]

90. I can. Even the poorest among us need recreation.

And yes, I'm advocating that people on public assistance be given some discretionary money explicitly so they can have some fun - buy some beer, go to a movie, get a manicure, whatever.

Do you really think that once a person dares to ask for help that he or she is required to live a highly regimented, monastic assistance, to ensure that snobs like you can look down your nose and be satisfied your tax money isn't "wasted"?

[jeff47]

95. Yes Mr. Reagan. Those welfare queens in their Cadillacs are sure awful. (nt)

[progressivebydesign]

181. I volunteer delivering meals and gifts to welfare families during the holidays.

Sorry to burst your meme, but the majority of apartments have giant flat screen tvs, they have smartphones, and a nice car parked outside. There are always people willing to extend credit at a usurious rate, for welfare recipients to buy nice cars and electronics, instead of food for the kids.

[jeff47]

225. So your issue is you have no idea what things cost then?

Flat screen TV: Used to be pricey. Now they're $70-400 at Wal-Mart depending on size. And that's new. Used are extremely cheap.

Smart Phone: Free with contract, and that contract is cheaper than a land-line. And that's assuming it's a new smart phone. You can buy a used iPhone on ebay cheaply, and a used Android phone very cheaply.

I have no idea what your definition of "nice" car is, so I'm gonna just have to assume that means "not mostly rust". Which leaves a lot of rather inexpensive options, and they'll be much cheaper to operate than the rustbucket you have to fix constantly.

You've also chosen three items that are quite durable. They could have been bought in better times. After all, if they are literal welfare (now TANF) recipients, they can only have become that poor in the last 5 years.

So other than repeating Reagan's Cadillac welfare queen propaganda and slandering people you don't actually know, what was your point?

[limpyhobbler]

100. Cigarettes are no luxury, they are a highly addictive drug.

Some people can stop smoking, but some struggle off and on for a lifetime. I wouldn't deprive a person of food (or worse their kids) on account of them being a drug addict.

[Scootaloo]

102. I just want to educate you about something.

The poor are human beings. Human beings enjoy their leisure time, regardless of economic standing. In fact they are entitled to this. it's a core part of being a fucking human being. Sometimes, leisure involves spending money. Maybe you want a beer. maybe you want to see a concert. Various aid programs realize this and allow their funds to be allotted towards such recreation. And unfortunately, many people are physically or mentally addicted to some substance such as nicotine; and cigarettes are a much cheaper fix than patches, pills, or inhalers.

Now maybe this offends people like you who believe poverty should relegate people to 18-hour days in a workhouse and total abstinence from anything other than beans and rice. This isn't an uncommon outlook, but it is an outlook that serves to distinguish ignorant right-wing fuckwits from the rest of humanity. Maybe you'd like to reconsider.

[fasttense]

103. So where does that kind of thinking end?

I don't approve of eating meat. I say the poor on assistance shouldn't buy meat either. To me eating meat is unnecessary.

How about drinking milk? There are people who think humans should not be drinking the milk of other mammals. To them drinking milk is unnecessary. The poor on assistance should not buy milk either.

What about a candy bar? I think that eating candy is an unnecessary luxury. All poor people on assistance shouldn't be allowed to buy candy either.

Cookies and cakes are an unnecessary luxury. People can survive just fine without eating any cookies or cakes. I think all poor people on assistance should not ever be allowed to buy cookies and cakes. But of course we don't know if those poor people are making their own cookies and cakes? We will have to restrict their purchase of flour, eggs, milk (of course), sugar, baking powder. To make sure those poor people on assistance are NOT making their own cookies and cakes. Can't have the poor on assistance possibly enjoying a bite or two of cookies and cake. It's not fair that my tax dollars goes to poor people who eat cookies and cakes while I have to work to eat cookies and cakes.

I say we assign every poor person on assistance a monitor who walks around with them all day and determines what they can and can NOT buy. Because we can't let those poor people on assistance be thinking they can have pleasure or luxuries. We got to make those poor people on assistance suffer for daring to be poor. They all must be punished because if God really loved them, they would be rich, Or if they really worked hard they would be rich.

[Zoeisright]

108. Well, what a smug little attitude.

How about it's none of your fucking business?

[ZombieHorde]

109. Social benefits are based off income, not extra spending cash.

If someone wants to starve themselves for a while so they can buy something fun, why would you care? People living off welfare are not living high on the hog.

Side note: what does "high on the hog" even mean?

[barbtries]

186. i think it refers to the cuts of meat.

poor people should be living off pig's feet apparently.

[ZombieHorde]

238. Apparently. nt

[a la izquierda]

118. I border on socialism...

and I can give a rat's ass what *some* people on welfare spend their money on. I pay a ton of taxes, too. Here's the thing: I'd rather continue to support welfare- warts and all (if that's how you want to view it)- as opposed to reforming it to the point where people have a very difficult time getting help.

There was a great quote floating around awhile back (and I'd love it if someone could find it). It went something like, "I'd rather a few people abuse the welfare system than one person who needs it not get it." Something like that.

I have a ton of tattoos, by the way. I got most of them when I was much younger, but you wouldn't know when I got them. Because they're permanent. So, as someone upthread said, maybe the person got the ink before they fell on hard times.

[rbrnmw]

129. I am a socialist

[Warren Stupidity]

130. So how exactly do you propose enforcing your welfare police state?

[progressivebydesign]

176. Lifelong Democrat and agree with you.

I grew up with nothing... we had periods of income from my father, but often had welfare and food stamps. My parents struggled, they did not spend money on things like that because we were just trying to keep our rented apartment and eat regularly. We lived in a hotel for a while, we lived on oatmeal for days at a time.

I'm sorry but I DO see welfare recipients (I volunteer a few times a year delivering holiday meals and such,) who have new tattoos, piercing, smokes, etc, and I'm delivering toys for their children that other people bought for them. Cigarettes are now like $5.00 a pack in some areas, and higher... do the math. Two packs a day? That's enough for groceries for a few weeks. Tatts? Also, those are expensive. Alcohol? Same.

You would think that if someone truly cared about their kids (because most welfare/food stamps go to families,) they'd clean up their act and use the money they did get, for the priorities, which is their family.

Does this make me a bad liberal??? I'm also frustrated when I volunteer to do things like clean up a shelter, or deliver and package food, for people that are able bodied and not working, and never pitch in. We're doing it wrong in many ways.

[barbtries]

185. liberal as they come, i don't think so.

how dare a poor person want to actually LIVE a life. poor people should suffer through the days. i bet you don't want any poor people on food stamps going to the movies either, or having a party with presents in nice wrapping, or going to disneyland or even the local carnival. not on YOUR dime!
liberal, no. buying into the right wing meme that people who use these benefits are lazy slackers, yes.

[Politicalboi]

6. They left out cell phone

LOL!

Tell them fine, but when they can no longer get birth control, the Fed Up Party will be forking over more money to feed those unexpected children.

[backscatter712]

91. How dare a person on food stamps take measures to be able to communicate like a civilized person.

Before we know it, he might want money for Internet so he can have an email address for job-hunting.

[jeff47]

96. That's because a cell phone is now cheaper than a landline.

And the people posting such drivel are only marginally stupid, instead of completely stupid.

[CJCRANE]

7. If your friend thinks those things represent a life of luxury...

I'm not sure what to say.

[MotherPetrie]

193. Why draw the line there, then? Let's just buy poor people EVERYTHING they want!

Then, we can really call ourselves liberals!

[CJCRANE]

198. We let bankers buy everything they want with our taxpayers' money

so letting poor people buy a few beers and smokes isn't much of a big deal IMO.

[BlueStreak]

8. I would agree with most of it, but point out that

most people receiving assistance are not living high on the hog as this quote implies.

This is essentially Reagan's "Welfare Cadillac" crap all over again.

I would ask him to provide data to support his contention that this is typical of those receiving assistance.

[rbrnmw]

10. Gawd how do these morons live without brains??

We must find the host and destroy it

[2pooped2pop]

12. and if you can afford a yacht, you don't need my taxes

to pay for corporate welfare like we give to Bank of America, GE, Exxon and how ever many other mega corporations. But even though some of those companies pay les than we do in taxes, and many many more pay a smaller percentage than we do, (while they make BILLIONS in profits) They still subsidize them with our tax money. They redistribute the wealth from you to the most richest of the rich? He doesn't have a problem with that right?

That seems a whole lot worse than feeding a family with my tax money.

[msongs]

13. if you can afford a fire extinguisher you dont need fire departments....wait, there's more!

if you can afford a gun you don't need a police department.
if you can afford a 4 wheel drive vehicle you don't need streets and highways.
if you can afford an aspirin you don't need a hospital

etc

[CJCRANE]

14. How much did taxpayers pay to bailout the banks?

If we can afford to keep the bankers in their opulent lifestyles then we shouldn't begrudge welfare recipients a couple of beers or smokes now and again.

[Terra Alta]

16. food stamps can't be used to buy beer or cigarettes

at least not in NC.

And why should only the wealthy and well-off have luxuries? Poor people should be allowed to have some fun, too.

[Canuckistanian]

19. I find this crap to be the most unsettling

Appealing to the sin of ENVY, even when the facts say otherwise.

Mere pennies per day go to welfare recipients, whereas the military takes DOLLARS per day, if you make a decent wage (lucky you).

And the ones who do the most bitching seem to be the ones who are just one medical bankruptcy away from being on welfare themselves.

Not to mention the whole "Strawman" aspect. The vast number of welfare recipients are NOT into drugs, tattoos or manicures (WTF?)

AND... most people on welfare are WHITE, not the supposed "lazy blacks"

[Igel]

26. And you raise a lot of problems.

A lot of the complaints are about a very small minority. Some defend the minority--they have a right to scant luxuries at public expense. But often those luxuries come at the cost to those that the money is supposed to help.

So the high school I was at had a student who saved some sort of government money in order to get her hair and nails done--perhaps selling her food stamps, I forget the details--but the person who suffered was her baby, for whom the day care folk had to spring for food and diapers.

One woman showed up nicely coiffed when her kid got in trouble. Her family was on government assistance. Kids got free/reduced breakfasts/lunches and showed up in the morning truly hungry some times because the mother didn't feed them the night before. They didn't have $2 for their lab notebooks and pens. But their mother could have a nice hairdo. She deserved her luxuries.

It's a small number, to be sure. But defending them doesn't help, esp. when they're indefensible.

And in a number of places and for many people race isn't in the "code." Most welfare recipients are white and a lot of people know it. But a disproportionate percentage are black, and that's also not something to be overlooked because it has a lot of implications and allows even more inferences.

[Habibi]

58. "But their mother could have a nice hairdo."

Why focus on the hairdo? Do you know for a fact she paid a lot of money for it? Lots of women get their hair "done" from friends/family members who know how to do that stuff. Maybe she did it herself, yah?

[laundry_queen]

206. NO kidding. That is such bs.

I get my hair done once to twice a year. That's all I can afford - and, in addition to that, normally I get it for a deep discount via groupon or my mom will give me a gift card (that she gets from rich ladies at her work) to help partially cover the costs. I can only imagine what people think when I show up with MY hair nicely done and I mention I'm a broke single mother. I'm certain they talk. They also don't understand that being in school, and with the field I'm going in to, and attending many meet and greets I have to look the part if I'm going to network effectively enough to get a good job when I get out. People love to judge.

[Canuckistanian]

65. I'm sorry

But I want my tax dollars going to give people a decent life, not merely to keep their corpses from littering the streets.

So I'm not going to begrudge a hairdo for single mom. And I seriously DOUBT her baby suffered from any form of malnutrition because of it.

Thanks, I'll save my indignation for the REAL thieves of this world. The corporations and politicians.

[jeff47]

98. So you don't know what you're talking about, but we should take your anecdote as proof?

So the high school I was at had a student who saved some sort of government money in order to get her hair and nails done

So Mr. Reagan, you gonna do something about those Cadillac-driving welfare queens?

[gollygee]

173. This is the exact problem with making assumptions

Your first example is obviously based on gossip since you don't know all the details. If you don't know what happened, you don't know the baby suffered, or how much if anything was spent. You said high school - was this for prom night? A one-time expense isn't the same as a regular expense either.

But your second example is the one that bothers me the most. You see a mother with nice hair, and you assume that she's spent a lot of money on it. That is such a huge assumption. Do people on food stamps have to look horrible for you to believe they aren't wasting money on themselves? Maybe she's going to beauty school and they students style each other's hair for practice. Maybe she has an arrangement with a hair stylist where she watches their kids every so often and they do her hair. Maybe she does her own hair and is really good at it. Maybe she has family members and they enjoy doing each other's hair. You have absolutely no idea why her hair looks nice. Should poor people all have bad hair just to make sure nobody jumps to assumptions, or should people be careful not to make assumptions?

[laundry_queen]

207. +1

BTW, for all the people who 'ass'ume. There are a zillion tutorials on you tube for how to do your hair so it look like you just stepped out of a salon. There are also that many make up tutorials. You can look like a million bucks with donated products. My mother makes good money, and loves to spend it on herself. She often buys expensive hair products she decides she doesn't like and face creams where she gets free make-up 'bonuses' that she doesn't use, so she gives both of them to me. Pretty much the only thing I have to buy is mascara - and far less often than what is 'recommended'.

People also forget that a big barrier to people GETTING good jobs can be their looks. Wasn't there a study recently about people with poor oral health being at a huge disadvantage when it came to being hired? I don't doubt there is a same (more subtle) discrimination with regards to hair/make-up. Don't disparage people for trying to look good - it may lead to a good job.

[Bluerthanblue]

21. the people who have posted this on my FB feed, are all

people who decry the idea of a "nanny state" and HATE the notion of the government infringing on people's individual freedom. They are the same people who bitch about Michelle Obama suggesting that we encourage our children to eat healthier meals, and who moan and groan about the fazing out of incandescent light bulbs, because the 'government' shouldn't tell people what they can and cannot buy.

I've pointed this out to them, and it does work to a degree. A few complain about it being "their tax dollars" being spent, but it is important to note that the people in the Military are paid with "our tax dollars" as are politicians, and federal employees- are they going to dictate what THEY can and cannot purchase with their benefits? Talk about micro-managing peoples lives.

Where is the "liberty or pursuit of happiness for ALL people?" Or is that something reserved for the "conservative elite"?

[rucky]

25. Who is this imaginary person they're all yelling at?

[Brickbat]

28. I think he made an appearance at the RNC the other night...

%3Fw%3D558%26h%3D9999%26crop%3D0

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

31. The poor are not allowed to have any pleasure at all.

Not even a bottle of cold beer on a hot day.

No. They must live on gruel and water. They must not have televisions or cell phones. OK, maybe a refrigerator to keep their gruel in, as long as it's not a big one and doesn't have an ice maker.

Their car, if any, must be old and rusty. Their clothes must be thin and cheap and frayed and purchased at Wal-Mart or a church rummage sale.

They are not allowed to have anything nice at all. If they want nice things they must not be allowed to be poor.

I hope this isn't necessary:

[Habibi]

61. Yes. And if they are elderly/disabled and poor, and on assistance,

they must engage a friend/family member to do their shopping for them, and said person should not either have a nice hairdo/tat/cell phone/manicure, lest it reflect badly on the entire program.

For fuck's sake, people.

[SheilaT]

32. I myself am sometimes guilty of looking at women

who are supposed to be quite poor, and they have fancy nails. For a brief time I had my nails done, and I know how expensive that is. So I wonder, how can they afford it?

However, I do absolutely believe that there needs to be a basic, bottom line level of income. How you choose to spend your money is your own business, although you shouldn't let your kids go hungry.

I choose to spend my somewhat limited money on things (like books and yarn) that others would consider luxuries. Someone who spends the same limited money on cigarettes is making different choices. I might be an anti-smoking nazi, but again, if others aren't directly suffering, meaning the kids in the household are still getting all that they need, who am I to judge?

[treestar]

35. Wonder why they care so much

They don't give a shit how much gets pissed away on wars, bailouts, but they care whether a down and out person can have a beer. Hateful people.

[LaydeeBug]

67. **THAT** is a great response,

I've seen this going 'round. I get into enough Facebook battles that I have ignored this one. It's too convoluted for a rightie to 'get' because once they start to sniff spite, they become blinded.

Until I read this.

Perfect.

[LuvLoogie]

40. And yet,

oil companies need billion dollar subsidies.

[HughBeaumont]

41. Highly hilarious when "temporarily embarrassed millionaires" are jealous of people who have nothing.

And people who have everything and continue to buy toys like home climbing walls and LED wine cellars with glass ceilings and . . . the government . . . are jealous of people who would be more than ecstatic with a secure job and a decent retirement.

"Every Man/Woman For Themselves" nations will result in one person owning everyone and everything else.

[BlueJazz]

42. As a nation, we give money to the rich and well-to-do (that they don't deserve). They buy...

tickets (First Class)..to lavish vacations around the world, buy diamonds for their dog, buy expensive boats and I'm suppose to get upset about some poor bastard who wants to use part of his/her food stamps to buy a carton of ice cream for $3.99 or a pack of cigarettes????

GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK

[eqfan592]

52. That's pretty much my response as well.

The graphic in the OP is just a means of perpetuating a negative stereotype. The morons that go along with it are apparently incapable of any complex thought processes, otherwise they'd realize how ridiculous it is to be worrying about what a dirt poor person is doing with their welfare check when corporations are running away with taxpayer money, turning in record profits, and raping this country blind.

Pisses. Me. Off.

[NYC_SKP]

45. spacer

see next comment

[NYC_SKP]

47. IF YOU CAN AFFORD VACATION HOMES AND THREE PLUS CARS, YOU DON'T NEED TAX BREAKS.

ahem.

[DBoon]

82. damn right

You own a mercedes, you should pay taxes at the same rate as us working stiffs.

And I bet the money you'd pay would completely eclipse any spent by people on welfare for bee and cigarettes

[JoePhilly]

48. Respond ... "I wish many of the rural whites folks I know would take your advice."

They'll flip out.

[Speck Tater]

55. As Americans we should all strive to make poverty...

... more miserable so that poor people will suffer they way they're supposed to.

[ejpoeta]

220. well why would they ever want to leave it if they aren't properly suffering.

it is such the life i am telling you. i remember when we were really poor and needed assistance.... now that was the life! /sarcasm

[NOLALady]

56. Did they forget Cadillacs?

[GoCubsGo]

62. They now drive BMWs and Mercedes.

Of course, that's not counting the wife of the corporate tax cheat who's running for President. She drives a "couple" of Cadillacs.

[klook]

57. If you can afford a dressage horse, you don't need tax shelters in Switzerland & the Cayman Islands

How's about that?

[anneboleyn]

235. AMEN!

[jberryhill]

63. Beer is the signature beverage of human civilization

Moreso than wine. You can ferment all kinds of fruit on the go, and seasonally. The infrastructure required for making beer - namely, the cultivation of grain - is the basis of human civilization.

[Bjorn Against]

64. Does that meme only apply to poor welfare recipients or does it apply to corporate welfare as well?

If poor welfare recipients can not have a beer then I would think the billionaire government contractors should also have to stop drinking their $400 bottles of wine. Why do we hold the poor who receive small amounts of government aide to a higher standard than corporate CEOs who receive billions in government aide?

[unblock]

69. here's the point of view in a nutshell: not a penny more than what you need to minimally survive.

the minute you have one single discretionary penny, then you've been given too much.

perhaps it's a pithy snark with momentary appeal, but is it really wise public policy?

how exactly is someone supposed to wean themselves off public assistance if the idea is to fund them only to the point of barely surviving? this is a recipe for an ability to handle zero emergencies, zero contingencies, zero problems. in short, it's a recipe for KEEPING people on welfare.

if you don't need assistance the minute you can afford a beer, then you'll never be able to afford a suit or a cab ride to a job interview.

[DBoon]

85. I like the way the Dead Kennedies put it

"You'll work harder with a gun in your back for a bowl of rice a day"

[unblock]

124. thanks! i was scratching my head for a reference like that!

[zuzu98]

237. thank you for stating this as clearly as you have

I've been excoriated in another thread for posing questions about whether those receiving public assistance should be expected to spend their funds in any particular way. You have made one of the best arguments for why we should be giving people more assistance and more freedom with the funds they get.

[Akoto]

71. This prompted me to make a video, which I never do ...

Terrible quality, awkward delivery, but I'm a disabled shut-in. What do I know about socializing? I just felt the need to comment with my own voice ...

&feature=youtu.be

[barbtries]

194. thank you for posting this.

some of us knew that already but i hope others will listen to what you have to say. and i hope your situation improves.

[Bigmack]

72. Food aid... even if the recipients buy beer...

..or whatever.. functions at other levels.

SNAP circulates money and gives $1.73 in stimulus to the economy for every dollar in food aid given.

Emotionally, I don't like the idea of somebody buying beer and then using food aid... (usually a munificent sum like $400 a month for a family of 4... about a buck per person per meal).. but the reasoning part of me says.. Hey, it's a stimulus. Beer companies are part of the economy, too, you know.

Let's remember that the Bush tax cuts stimulate the economy 27 cents for every dollar given in tax breaks.

[kestrel91316]

74. While I might balk at seeing someone spend on ALL those things while

receiving public assistance, I am willing to allow for some small pleasures in life. I just don't see a way to enforce any rules in this regard. Food stamps can only be used on certain things.

And by "welfare", what exactly do they mean? AFDC? Social Security? Disability? With these freaks I don't know anymore.

[Smilo]

77. Oh for fuck's sake

I can't believe some here are saying that anyone receiving welfare should basically live in cave and only have bread and water.

So these people buy the odd beer, treat themselves to oh my God a manicure - maybe every week they save a dollar - a measly stinking dollar so they can treat themselves and believe that they matter - that they are not the downtrodden , unimportant and despised people that so many believe they are.

Everyone and I mean everyone could be in their position tomorrow - you would, of course, be quite happy to sit and write application after stinking application, go from interview to interview and not want to look nice, or may be drown your sorrows.

I am so fed up of people being "mightier than thou" because they can look down on others - never thinking there for the Grace of God go I.

[etherealtruth]

156. + infinity

[anneboleyn]

231. Yes! I am so tired of the appalling demonization of the poor. It is sickening, and it is irrelevant.

The real money issues involve corporate welfare, etc., not the "evil poor" getting some assistance.

[unblock]

80. and, hey, if you can minimally survive after taxes, you can afford a top 90% marginal tax rate.

remember, being able to afford even one damn beer isn't a consideration, so quite whining about high taxes, just as long as you can afford food.

[DBoon]

84. This boils down to "People on welfare do things I don't like. Therefore welfare should be abolished

now what about my tax break for sending my kids to private schools

[Initech]

86. Actually it more boils down to "I've got mine so fuck you!!!"

That's pretty much the conservative mentality when they want to enact their dangerous policies of screwing the poor and eliminating health care.

[chknltl]

88. Stop it!

Interesting choice of typeface used for that Facebook meme. Is it fractur?
http://german.about.com/od/readinggerman/a/fraktur.htm

The Nazi party eventually banned fractur. Perhaps not all of their followers got the memo.

But I digress from what I wanted to post here.

Stopping welfare in order to stop welfare abuse.

Stopping Acorn in order to stop voter fraud.

Stopping Iran before Iran has a bomb.

Stopping the terrorists so we won't have to fight them over here.

Stopping government regulations on corporations because it hurts the job creators.

Stopping 'Obamacare' because it is unconstitutional.

Stopping a woman's right to choose because life begins at conception.

Seems to me that there is a group of people out there working hard to stop stuff.

Trouble is their given reasons for doing so are based on flat out lies.

Isn't it time We The People stopped the liars?

[backscatter712]

89. Recreation is a psychological need.

Sorry, but that's the truth. If you're poor, assuming you've met survival needs such as food, water, shelter, etc., you still need to be able to find some time to relax, have fun, socialize, indulge in a hobby or a game, or hell, have a drink.

The poor-haters (including some here on DU) think that if you're poor and you dare to ask your government for assistance so you don't starve, die of some disease or end up living in a cardboard box, that means that you're morally obligated to live a monastic existence - no fun allowed. No drinking, no TV, no Internet, no games, no smokes, no nothing!

And I'm sorry, that's fucking shitty. I can understand if you're wasting money, but telling a person he's not allowed to have a beer? Fuck off!

People need to engage in recreation - if they don't, they go crazy.

I'm not saying that taxpayers should pay for huge extravagance, but yes, they should pay for people needing public assistance to have some fun once in a while.

[NuttyFluffers]

92. exactly. so why are we paying corporate welfare then?

saving money by using jam jars for drinking glasses while still supporting your gambling spouse's addiction.

yelling at the kids to clean their room while your home is being robbed.

scrounging for pennies on the floor while dollar bills are drifting away on the wind.

this is nothing but the politics of vindictive envy. it's pathetic because it only hurts the weakest among us, not the truly powerful hurting all of us.

[bluestateguy]

93. When the Pentagon stops flushing money down the toilet

and when we stop wasting money on the war on drugs and warehousing people away for petty crimes.

Then I will think about caring about this.

[Dragonfli]

97. They know little it appears about what one gets from assistance

I only know my own local county (Erie, NY) and my understanding is that it differs somewhat from area to area.

Here, you get AT MOST 335 Dollars a month for rent, Gas, Electric, Clothing, soap and any other bills you may have (in an area where a studio apt without utilities included will cost you between 200 - 250 per month in one of our less beautiful areas of town) You have to prove you live there, prove no one else does, and submit to a physical inspection of your apt and your belongings, if you refuse to sign the paper giving them this right to invade your privacy you may, but will not receive benefits.

The fun doesn't stop there, you are required to work 40 hours a week for that huge sum, not quite slave labor, but close.
After rent, you will find that you can not hope to pay your utilities after paying rent, only partially pay them, the utility bills grow, eventually something gets shut off, probably everything.

I don't think any of us are ABLE to buy the items mentioned without facing homelessness for not paying the rent, even spending all our money on bills THINGS STILL GET SHUT OFF.

One thing may help give comfort to those that take such umbrage at the thought of some recipient's friend buying him or her a beer thus ruining their day - After 24 months, even that 300 dollars is cut off, there is a monthly countdown to benefits that ends at 24.

I suppose the 40 bucks a week in food stamps must be responsible for all the lavish excess of the modern welfare royalty, they simply eat lint and spend the food stamps at the nail boutique, don't ask me how the nail girls accept it tho, THEY JUST MUST!

I say if someone in this situation, a situation I know about personally is
enjoying something.. ANYTHING, Goddess bless them, I hope they get even more!

[KansDem]

101. Anyone else notice the font?

It's resembles "fraktur"--



Fraktur: the printed version of German text used before WW1 and also 1933-1935.

And what was going on in Germany during that time?

[Systematic Chaos]

104. Damn right people on very low incomes should still have fun in their lives.

I have no objection to people on assistance spending small amounts of their limited income on hobbies, games or a drink here and there.

But those people out there who are both poor and degenerate need their survival but they also need help which the vast majority of them aren't getting.

So then, in my mind, the answer to the problem is to take a little bit away from the endless fucking war budget and maybe spend some more money on training mental health experts and giving those in dire straits more resources and ways to socialize safely, so they don't lock themselves up and drink, smoke or otherwise waste their lives away.

I say what I do as someone who is now disabled due to my own food addiction (the weight loss I've achieved has helped, but not enough and I have no way to see doctors), and who was raised by a mother who was one skinny little ball of OCD and self-destructive behaviors and who went a lifetime without somebody to break down the walls and help her with whatever unknown indicent(s) may have set her on the path to ruin at a very young age.

[forthemiddle]

199. Wow, congratulations on your weight loss so far

I see your ticker, and I am impressed. As someone who has just lost 40 lbs, I know how difficult it is each and every day. You should be so proud of yourself.
Have you used myfitnesspal.com? It has an excellent calorie counting program, and there forums, which I have just started reading are fantastic areas of support. It is a completely free website.

Keep up the excellent work, and remember the most effective form of weight loss (walking) doesn't cost a penny!!! Good luck!

[krispos42]

105. Or a 15% unearned-income tax rate n/t

[Drunken Irishman]

106. Straw man argument...

How many people who are on food stamps really go out and get manicures and tattoos? I guess it's possible, but it's just a quote to diminish those who aren't as well off as some in this country.

A person who has a tattoo might've gotten that tattoo a year ago and wasn't on food stamps back then. Someone who buys beer, might've just splurged one night because, you know, they had an extra $10 lying around and decided they wanted something nice. What I do know is that you can't buy any of what is listed with food stamps - from drugs to cigarettes, manicures and tattoos.

Let's be honest, it's easy to demean the poor. We do it all the time. We stereotype the poor as ingrates who are lazy and useless. Forget that there are far more honest people on food stamps than those who abuse 'em, it's easier to clump 'em all together as a certain group because, you know, if you're poor, you're only poor because you choose to be poor.

When I was a kid, there was a time when my parents were on food stamps ... and this was right before they shifted to the card, so, I actually had to pay with obvious food stamp currency. I hated it and I'm sure my parents hated it too.

But we were going through a rough time. The 90s economic boom hadn't hit my neighborhood and because of it, we were, for a period of time, working poor. The food stamps afforded my mom a chance to spend money on clothes and other daily luxuries like shampoo, bills, rent and other things that kept us from freezing or living on the street. So sue 'em.

And I'm sure there was a time when my dad bought a 12 pack of beer. So sue him.

I hate this shit because it's demeaning and it demeans a segment of the population that already feels demeaned in the first place.

[etherealtruth]

209. Thank you

Threads like this disillusion me ... responses like yours reassure me

[MercutioATC]

107. I usually use the personal ethical standard to evaluate questions like this.

I make it personal.

If people who could use the money to make their lives better gave me their money because I needed it, would "X" be something I could justify to myself?


If I was getting money from somebody else because I needed it, no, I don't think I could justify buying luxury items.

[dkf]

110. Maybe food stamps should be done differently. Instead of giving a dollar amount, give them

Specific healthy foods much more oriented towards vegetables.

We need for people who can't take care of themselves to eat better so that we don't have to pay for health costs caused by poor decision making.

If they want to eat unhealthy food, they can do so with their own funds.

We don't provide for others so that they enjoy things. We do so to prevent starvation because we are humane.

We feed poor kids a specific supposedly healthy breakfast and lunch in school. We don't give them a card that allows them to buy candy bars and soda for breakfast so that they can have some enjoyment in life.

[RandiFan1290]

116. Bad week in Tampa, eh?

I can see the desperation starting to build as November approaches. 4 years and all you guys could come up with is Willard. I would be in panic mode as well if that was my candidate.

Good Luck!

[dkf]

142. People complain that healthy food is too expensive.

Why not simply give people on food stamps only healthy food? Seriously.

[rbrnmw]

117. How arrogantly offensive

[dkf]

143. Better to help supply people with foods that are bad for them?

Where is the humanity in that?

[Mmm_Bacon]

123. Makes sense...

50 pound bags of staple foods and the like... along with some veggies and some basic directions printed on the bags.

Distribution would be an issue but the concept is sound.

[DLevine]

127. I have an even better idea.

Let's allow poor people to make their own food choices. Meanwhile, we'll focus on what's really destroying this country (hint- it's not poor people on food stamps).

[dkf]

141. Part of it is a country that eats very unhealthily incurring outsized health care costs.

[gollygee]

154. And then let's hope they don't work too many hours so they have time

to cook from scratch.

I don't think people know how difficult the world is for the working poor. These are people with physically demanding jobs, who sometimes work at odd hours. They don't eat convenience foods because they don't care about money or because they're lazy. They do it because they come home hungry and don't have time to cook.

[laundry_queen]

211. or they don't have the proper storage facilities for unprocessed food

what if they have had their power turned off? What are they supposed to do with milk? How are they going to cook?

I cannot believe what I'm hearing on a Democratic board. For shame.

[davidpdx]

111. I haven't checked the person's feed lately

But I know one person on Facebook who is a Paul supporter probably posted that one. The group name looks very familiar from some of the other crap she's posted. I might have to go check. I finally had to change the settings so I don't view as much of that crap.

[Skittles]

113. demonization of the poor

heaven forbid they would go after thieving bankers or war profiteers

[quaker bill]

119. I would counter

and if you have more than 2 homes, or an off-shore bank account, you don't need a tax cut.

[ProSense]

125. How long does it take you to earn enough money to pay for a gallon of milk?

– How long does it take you to earn enough money to pay for a gallon of milk? 99 Uniting broke down the numbers in this infographic:



http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/07/09/512672/morning-briefing-president-obama-to-call-for-tax-fairness/

[ibegurpard]

195. skipping the beer isn't going to make the difference between self-sufficiency and welfare

we have enough checks and balances in place to safeguard against egregious abuse. I'm more worried about the trillions of dollars being scammed by corporate hucksters.

[sendero]

128. Whenever I see someone claim..

... that there is a "liberal media", I mean ANY "liberal media" in the US I know without reservation or any further consideration that I am dealing with, and I mean this literally, a cretin.

[Livluvgrow]

131. Funny Thing

The people they describe the cigarette smoking daily bud light drinking tattooed people are probably republican

[99Forever]

132. A rational response to a Teabagger?

Why bother? They don't deal in rational thinking.

My response? Delete the idiot.

[Taitertots]

133. Those are all really bad purchase decisions for someone who is impoverished to make

The people who are impoverished due to their own continuing self destructive behavior only give the opponents of social safety nets a just grievance.

[madville]

134. Used to see it all the time at the store I worked at

I was a clerk at a store, it was common for people to come in and use their EBT card for food then break out the cash for lottery tickets, smokes, alcohol, etc.

[Courtesy Flush]

135. My response to my nephew's wife when she pulled this

I said "your husband was raised on food stamps as a child, and trust me, his mother DESERVED a beer now and then."

[SDjack]

136. My son-in-law was raised in extreme poverty. His mother and her two

young children lived in Ohio in a car for 2 years. Damn near froze in winter and eaten alive by insects in summer. He and his sister worked their way into the middle class. One day we were walking in Washington, DC, and he gave $10 to a beggar. That drew this comment from an on-looker: "He just going to spend that on alcohol or drugs." My son-in-law said "Good -- I hope it buys a little comfort and joy. He sure as hell has nothing else." That's a message from someone who didn't have shoes during the winter.

[etherealtruth]

147. Thank you for posting this

[reflection]

139. What kind of welfare are we talking about, personal or corporate?

Or one of the many other ways people get "free" money? Food stamps and welfare are what, 2% of GDP (someone correct me if they know, I think that is close)? And we pretend food stamp recipients are the ones drying up the well. Please.

[Zalatix]

140. Ask this Facebook idiot what s/he thinks about bankers who get corporate welfare.

Betcha they shut the fuck up and dry up and blow away after that.

[lynne]

146. Sounds logical to me -

- I have no problem with this and agree 100%. If you're able to find the funds for beer, drugs, cigarettes, manicures and tattoo's then you certainly aren't in need of welfare. What you're in need of is a priority check.

[Enrique]

148. you can't argue with slogans

people who post slogans are not looking for a discussion. I wouldn't bother responding to it.

There are conservatives open to discussing things, but they don't post slogans, they post thoughts and questions. These are the ones I engage with, because there is a chance of getting through.

[GoCubsGo]

149. Never mind that the instance of drug use among welfare users is LOWER....

...than it is in the general public: http://www2.tbo.com/news/politics/2011/aug/24/3/welfare-drug-testing-yields-2-percent-positive-res-ar-252458/ .

[ceile]

150. I unfriended someone because of this.

I got the whole "well, I lived in my car and never took gov't help when I was poor". Well bless your heart. He also didn't believe that you couldn't buy beer and smokes with foodstamps....you can't reason with people like that. And I see some of them here on this thread...

[etherealtruth]

153. "They" always come out in these threads

i have decided to pity their impoverished spirits

[AllyCat]

151. So with the $ 5 the person has for a 6er,

He or she should instead rent an apartment for one hour?

[etherealtruth]

152. I work hard

I worked hard for degrees, I work hard to support my family. I pay taxes.

I have been afforded opportunities in life that others less fortunate have not ... I do not begrudge others small joys ... nor do I have the time or energy to notice or worry about how others have the ability to finance small joys or small luxuries.

I pity those that are so "small" that they focus their energy or attention on what the poor do with their meager amounts of money ... you are truly impoverished in spirit and I don't know if there is any way to enrich you!

[tjwash]

157. You can start off by showing them a short list of real "welfare queens"

Companies like:

Steel Dynamics –received $77 million in subsidies

GS Industries–sought $20 million

Sealy–received $600,000

Steam International: received $4.5 million

Alliance Laundry Systems: received $1.81 million

Burger King Corp.–sought $9 million, received $3 million.

And then there are the roughly $4 billion a year in subsidies and tax breaks for oil companies, which the President has attempted to eliminate 3 times now, but has been killed every time by the teabaggers in congress.

They probably won't read all that though. It does not fit on a bumper sticker.

[tjwash]

160. You can play dueling images with them as well:

[laundry_queen]

213. Good one! nt

[hunter]

167. What we need is a generous welfare system that competes directly with crap jobs.

Everybody needs to be in a position where they can tell their boss, "Fuck this shit. I quit," without facing any threat of homelessness or starvation.

There would still be crap jobs, but the pay would be good and the bosses wouldn't be abusive.

[Hugin]

171. You could say...

"I didn't know that you were one of those people who laid around at night worried that somehow somewhere somebody was happy."

It's still a damn sight cheaper than Corporate Welfare.

[Mopar151]

172. Someone I know, who worked with folks on assistance

Told me that only 1 in 4 recipients gets by on what they are supposed to. These may nominally be fraud, but they're strategies for just gettin" by.

That nice car? It may well be borrowed from Mom, or be a rental - the cost of a cheap rental can pay back in the savings on a month's groceries.
Nails? Done by a friend, swapped for a couple hours babysitting, practice set for nail tech class?

Drugs? Dealin' a little weed on the side is the outlaw's Amway - and some folks swap some of their 'scrips for weed.

Cigs, booze, other "cash" vices/habits? Under-the-table babysitting, bartending, shuttling cars for a car lot, illegal boarders...

What I'm trying to say - some are incredibly quick to judge those who they beleive are receiving assistance, have NO clue what living on assistance is like, and are the same fools who think that most of their taxes go for "welfare"

[Green_Lantern]

178. I have to say I know some people will use food cards

To buy food, then sell it and pocket the money.

People on govt. assistance can spend their money on whatever when it isn't based on need or a specific purpose.

[proud2BlibKansan]

179. My sister is on food stamps and has a designer purse and an iPhone.

Gifts from her family. We help her whenever we can. We also bought appliances for her and pay for car repairs.

Any nosey nellies criticizing her can shove it.

[eilen]

182. This entire thread

makes me want to assemble DIY fermenting kits from scavenged parts and hand them out at DSS. Nothing like homemade beer (I believe they call it "artisan" in the gentrified sections of town) and Dandelion wine.

[alp227]

214. Better than Capone?

[barbtries]

183. it's just so mean.

poor people are apparently supposed to subsist in a world of despair without any joy allowed because they don't have money. it may not be a rational response but my impulse would be to tell them to fuck off and they should get off their high horse and walk a mile in a poor person's shoes. maybe then they wouldn't be so goddam judgmental. aargh.

[Posteritatis]

184. Awesome, we haven't had a "the poor should be obligatory ascetics" thread in awhile. (nt)

[MFrohike]

187. My response

Tax credits and deductions are welfare.

[Blue Belle]

188. I always find it ironic...

That the people so concerned with "Freedom" also seem to feel that when it comes to welfare, religious preference, abortion, sexual preference, etc. that there shouldn't be any allowence for choice at all.

[laundry_queen]

218. That gave me an idea

A good retort would be to turn their 'freedumb' crap back on them. "Well, I LOVE the USA! God bless the USA and FREEDOM! People should be free to buy beer, cigarettes and tattoos! I'm glad I live in a country where those things are ALLOWED! If you don't like freedom and the FREE market maybe you should move to COMMUNIST Russia, where people CAN'T buy those things, commie! I'll take my FREEDOM over COMMUNISM anyday!"

You know, turn the argument around, twist every word, leave facts 100 miles back, lie like crazy, bring up a boogeyman, and use 'freedom' a lot...just like they do.

[suffragette]

196. I wonder who is funding this?

In a brief look, found the names of two women behind the website:Leisa Audette and Patty McMurray

They are also affiliated with the Michigan tea party and apparently got co-sponsorship from Americans for Prosperity for a rally.

Fans of Breitbart and O'Keefe - no surprise there.

And just like Breitbart and O'Keefe, the main question have is: "Who is funding them?"

[Herlong]

202. Mitt Romney can be president

and people who vote for him won't ask him about his taxes. They care more about the crumbs the the pizza.

That said, wrong is wrong.

[Glitterati]

208. Wrong!

I will give you a classic example. I have a family member who spent a year in jail. Her 2 kids were living with her sister. The sister qualified for food stamps for the kids.

Did she go have a manicure? Of course she did. She could afford it, and her income had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that she was housing 2 children that were not hers. Was she supposed to deny HER daughter a manicure because she was kind hearted enough to take in 2 orphans?

Did her husband buy beer when they checked out in the line with food stamps? I'm sure he did. Should the husband have denied himself his beer that he paid for, because some ignorant jerk might say something to him in the checkout?

When you use food stamps, only the allowable items are paid for with food stamps. You pull cold, hard cash out of your pocket for anything else. Do you really think there's something WRONG WITH THIS?

You do realize that among the items NOT allowed on food stamps is TOILET PAPER, SOAP, and SHAMPOO? Seriously, why don't you jerks who think they're high and mighty just get off on denying poor people toilet paper, soap and shampoo? Isn't that enough?

[Herlong]

210. Get angry enough.

Express your point of view. And vote. This is what makes us American.

[Glitterati]

212. What makes me crazy

Is reading this garbage on a Democratic board! I had to check to see if I made a wrong turn to freeperville.

[Herlong]

215. Bigger the tent

Stronger the vote

Larger the voice

[CatWoman]

216. I went to that site and posted this

[Marrah_G]

223. There are some nasty responses in this thread

I suspect those responses come from people who have never been truly poor. This is rw, libertarian crap that gives the ignorant someone else to hate while those with the most continue to rob us all blind.

[Bobcat]

226. Please!

If you can afford offshore bank accounts, you don't need anymore tax cuts.........

[riverbendviewgal]

228. Republicans are the party of the rich and the strong and fit

They despise the sick and disabled, the poor and those of a different color...Sound like another political party of the 30s and 40s
doesn't it?

The Republican like to see those people they don't like "taken care"....by putting them on boxcars..

[AzDar]

233. How sad and small a person does one have to be to begrudge someone who qualifies for foodstamps

or welfare anything? I think it says more about those judging others than it does about the aid recipients themselves.

[Raine]

236. My response, anyone who has Swiss & Cayman bank accounts, 3+ mansions, car elevators, dancing horses

several cars including two cadillacs "actually" ... does not need government welfare in the form of tax breaks!