Naked Touching in Mormon Temple Ceremonies...

[defacto7]

Well, That got your attention didn't it?

Here's an excerpt from a site that gives some Temple Details you may think interesting...

The first thing you go through when receiving your endowment for the first time is the washing and anointing. You strip naked and are given what is called a "shield" to wear. It's a big white oval of fabric, worn like a poncho, but open at the sides. It is true that you're not 100% naked, but I think that the difference is splitting hairs. (If you don't believe me, run out into the street with nothing one but a blanket over your head and see if they don't try to charge you with indecent exposure.)

The washing and anointing both consist of various parts of the body being touched by the fingertips of the temple worker performing the ordinance. They use a drop of water or oil on their fingertips, hence washing and anointing. They say a sort of prayer for the good health and function of each of the involved body parts. Unlike other priesthood ordinances, men wash and anoint men and women wash and anoint women.

The parts of the body include the head, each ear, the eyes (I think it was across the brow), nose (bridge), lips, neck (nape), shoulders, back, breast (center of chest if I remember right), arms and hands (touch in one motion along length of each arm), vitals and bowels (point on the side, I think), loins, legs and feet (touch in one motion along length of each leg). The loins are supposed to be done by touching the side of the person parallel to their genitals, but more than one man has reported that perverted temple workers directly rubbed down the front of their penises. They seem to try to get away with it more with first-time missionaries who are young and don't know better.

[Incidentally, I may have forgotten one or more parts.]

The ordinance is performed in a cubicle divided in quarters by sheet-like fabric covering the washing and anointing "rooms". Each space is barely large enough for two people. The first section is an anteroom, the second for washing, the third for anointing, the fourth for being clothed in the temple garments (underwear). In the last one, they have you step into a one-piece temple underwear garment.

There are more trashy details at the original site...

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon366.htm

I suggest you print this and take it with you to for bathroom reading.

[Downwinder]

1. They should not mind airport security.

[pnwmom]

10. LOL. n/t

[tomm2thumbs]

2. no wonder my mormon cousin had orgies at his home!

oh yes he did

[BlueStreak]

33. They were not orgies. They were "group annointing sessions".

[tomm2thumbs]

47. ahhh, that's correct... it was all in a day's worship

muscle worship

[SIDURI]

3. As a Pagan, I recognize a sacred body blessing when I see it

How about the Five-Fold Kiss of the Gardnerian and Alexandrian Wiccans?

The fivefold kiss is an element of Wiccan ritual involving kissing five parts of the body. Each kiss given is accompanied by a blessing:

Blessed be thy feet, that have brought thee in these ways
Blessed be thy knees, that shall kneel at the sacred altar
Blessed be thy [womb/phallus], without which we would not be
Blessed be thy breasts, formed in beauty/breast formed in strength
Blessed be thy lips, that shall utter the Sacred Names.

This is the form of the blessing used by most Gardnerian and Alexandrian covens. The fivefold kiss is sometimes performed during Wiccan rites and ceremonies, such as handfasting. It may be the origin of the term blessed be, a well-known Neopagan greeting, also used as a general expression of blessing during ritual.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fivefold_kiss

DUers, can we just agree that bigotry toward other people's sacred practices is inappropriate?

An it harm none, do what ye will. Blessed be.

Siduri

[LeftyMom]

6. Gardner combined fraternity nonsense and his bondage fetish when dreaming up rituals*.

Mormonism draws on the same fraternity nonsense for most of the temple ritual stuff, thus the similarity.

*Unless you buy the Dorothy Clutterbuck story, in which case I have a lovely old stone bridge out in the English countryside to sell you.

[Moonwalk]

32. Yes, Gardner did. And this makes him different from any other leader(s) of any other religion who...

...dreamed up their fraternity nonsense and bondage fetishes? Catholicism handed out scourges to nuns and priests up through the mid-20th century so they could whip themselves--not to mention all the other stuff like aesthetic living and hairshirts and fasting and crawling on one's knees to a shrine or just lying on the floor with arms outstretched for hours...on and on.

I mean, what's your point?

[riderinthestorm]

34. That harmful religious practices like scourging and molestation shouldn't get a pass

simply because they're "religious" and somehow untouchable.

These kinds of rituals deserve scrutiny (and maybe even shaming or outright outlawing).

Siduri seemed to be trying to minimize these "rituals", asking us to leave them alone!!111!!!

No way.

[tanyev]

15. I believe I read somewhere that Joseph Smith borrowed freely from Masonic ritual to create Mormonism

My problem is not so much what they believe, but their bait and switch method of practicing it. They proclaim to the world that they are just like any mainline Christian church, but then there is all this secrecy surrounding their deepest beliefs and practices. How many devout Mormons would openly talk about a sacred body blessing like you just did? Not many, I'll wager.

[Moonwalk]

27. But isn't there just as much secrecy among certain "mainline" Christian religions...

...like, say, Catholicism? When was the last time you were allowed in to watch the Bishops pick a pope? Pretty secretive....

[SIDURI]

43. A lot of religions keep certain sacred rites secret except from initiates

A lot of world religions keep certain sacred rites secret except from initiates. And unless they are breaking secular laws, that's their own business. However, depending on the era and location, some secular laws can be incredibly unfriendly to anything secret -- totalitarian regimes especially. Tends to drive it deeper.

Forgot to add: 19th Century America was a rich field for the creation of both sacred and secular rituals. Fraternal organizations sometimes held competitions for the creation of rituals for their members. It's not surprising that Mormonism is an American creation from that time.

Siduri

[Marrah_G]

31. Or the Great Rite Actual in certain traditions

[Posteritatis]

39. Yeah, this sounds like a case of "it's bad because we don't like the people doing it."

Kinda like the "OMG orgies" stigma slapped onto various pagan and neopagan groups, and the cannibalism rap the early Christians got.

[ZombieHorde]

4. So what? nt

[DRoseDARs]

5. So what? So the sexual molestation in the 3rd paragraph of the excerpt is a-okay with you?

"...but more than one man has reported that perverted temple workers directly rubbed down the front of their penises. They seem to try to get away with it more with first-time missionaries who are young and don't know better."

Do you have the same reaction to reports of sexual assault by priests? Or did you read just the title and dismiss the entire matter out-of-hand thinking it was something as innocent as strip poker, but with less beer? Trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here...

[penndragon69]

7. There is a difference.

In Pagan groups that practice the 5 fold kiss, any touching is
EXPECTED / ACCEPTED as part of the ritual.

In the Mormon right, they are getting GROUPED by a sexual PREDATOR
because genital contact is NOT, part of the ritual !

[ZombieHorde]

18. I wasn't thinking about the penis touching when I wrote my reply. nt

[riderinthestorm]

20. Really?? You had to be the only one who wasn't then...

I'm guessing you also never pee in the shower or masturbate - evah!

That's sexual molestation - probably another "technique" to bind one to secrecy within the cult at the least....

[ZombieHorde]

22. Well, not at the same time. nt

[riderinthestorm]

24. Heh.

[Moonwalk]

30. Sexual molestation can happen in any religion and any religious leader can give...

...a religious reason for it happening--or use a religious ritual to get away with it. Now if the sexual molestation is part of the ritual, that's one thing. In that case, we can very much question the religion as we do all cults where the leader sexually abuses his followers and it's condoned rather than objected to because it's considered part of the religion.

But from the description, it looks like sexual molestation is not supposed to be part of the ritual, and therefore it is "so what?" So what if there is a ritual for this religion that involves a blessing where women touch non-sexual parts of women and men touch non-sexual parts of men and "bless" them.

[B Calm]

8. Wondering what a temple worker gets paid per hr. .

[Skittles]

9. wondering if the rooms are rented by the hour

[B Calm]

11. I would imagine so. The (cult) church has to make a profit!

[central scrutinizer]

12. wonder where they fit in this Venn Diagram

[link:http://sporkinthedrawer.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451c23269e20148c71ed568970c-500wi|

[jsr]

13. "your eyes, that you may see clearly and discern between truth and error"

as defined by the church, evidently.

[UTUSN]

14. R#12 & K for, *more* trashy details, MORE!1 n/t

[rug]

16. As long as you end up well endowed.

[defacto7]

17. I don't give a damn what anyone does...

I do care if a presidential candidate is irrational or has a religious bent that he can't separate from the reality of the office.

He can do whatever he wants as long as he is sane and able. Romney is neither if he really goes along with all the Mormon craziness.

There's the point.

Siduri, be what you be! I'm not voting for you for president.

[Honeycombe8]

19. Now that's weird. It's just weird. And creepy. I wonder who decided you had to be NAKED for that

to work?

[LeftyMom]

21. As a bishop he would have had to give interviews to teenagers, asking about sex and masturbation.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,585397,585397

By comparison feeling up young adults in ponchos and bakers hats is positively benign.

[riderinthestorm]

25. "By comparison feeling up young adults in ponchos and bakers hats is positively benign."

!!!!!!!


DUzy!!!

[FreeState]

37. Young adults do not do the Washing and anointing ceremony

Last edited Tue Sep 4, 2012, 02:35 AM - Edit history (1)

nor the endowment ceremony (the bakers hat is part of that).

That being said the OP is complete sensationalism. I'm a former member who has been though the temple, many many times. I have never once heard anyone touching someones penis in the temple.

[LeftyMom]

40. I was raised Catholic and didn't hear of anybody getting molested.

That's no more evidence for the absence of a widespread problem than your weird denials of the obvious grooming behavior adult men engage in when they ask adolescents about sex and masturbation or the use of religious nudity to cop a feel. Plenty of other credible people report problematic behavior, your not being aware of it doesn't make it untrue.

[FreeState]

44. I'm not sure I'm following you

That's no more evidence for the absence of a widespread problem than your weird denials of the obvious grooming behavior adult men engage in when they ask adolescents about sex and masturbation or the use of religious nudity to cop a feel. Plenty of other credible people report problematic behavior, your not being aware of it doesn't make it untrue.

I'm not sure I follow you. Are you saying that Mormon bishops wear temple clothing when they interview young adults? I didn't say abuse in the church does not happen, it does and it needs to be stopped, just like in every other church and organization. I said I had never heard of anyone ever being the victim of someone coping a feel during the washing and anointing ceremony, which is what the OP is talking about.):

The loins are supposed to be done by touching the side of the person parallel to their genitals, but more than one man has reported that perverted temple workers directly rubbed down the front of their penises. They seem to try to get away with it more with first-time missionaries who are young and don't know better.

This is both homophobic and something as a former member I has never heard of, its sensational BS. "More than a one man" becomes epidemic abuse against people who are barely adults. Its sensational BS.

[Fire Walk With Me]

23. The subject of this thread falls under the category of "Things I didn't want to know

and which cannot be unseen."

[begin_within]

26. Hey, I thought religion was supposed to be about spiritual things, not the body.

[Marrah_G]

29. Sometimes the two intertwine

[begin_within]

48. Seems like they intertwine very snugly in that church

[Marrah_G]

28. Pftttt no big deal

that stuff doesn't bother me in the least. The fact that they use their money to try and control and oppress non mormons pisses me off.

[AzSweet]

35. There have been many changes..

to the temple ceremony. I think,they did away with the naked touching a few years ago. And they got rid of the "death vows -throat slitting and bowel slicing" in 1990. They did away with these, simply because it was becoming to distasteful for modern members, although any Mormon would say it was from prophecy. But Mitt and his lovely wife went through the temple way before 1990, and took these vows. Also, when they were married in the temple, they did not,vow to love each other, they vowed to consecrate everything to the church. A vote for Romney is a vote for the Mormon Church...anyone who thinks otherwise, simply has not done their research. I totally understand and back up 100% that usuallt, religion should not matter in public office, but in this case, it really does.

[defacto7]

41. The article does say that naked touching was removed in 2005.

If you read the original post link you get most of the details. The details are just for a laugh or maybe a cry whichever is appropriate for you.

To me it's still about the ability of a presidential candidate to be able to separate from his indoctrination. I think not, and his indoctrination is sick.

[Alduin]

36. Creepy.

[FreeState]

38. As a former member this is sensational bs

Last edited Tue Sep 4, 2012, 02:21 AM - Edit history (1)

I have been through the temple many many times and never once heard of someone being touched on the penis once.

[defacto7]

42. congratualtions!

You do know you are repeating yourself... see post #37

Reply - see post #40

[CreekDog]

46. why would you hear about something that didn't happen to you?

about something that was apparently meant to be kept secret?

[CreekDog]

45. some hosts are trying to lock this

and I think that's wrong.

this story is NOT about splitting hairs theologically, but about something disturbing that would be troubling if it were or were not part of a religious ceremony.