General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBREAKING: Pelosi, Hoyer and Schumer walk out of White House meeting because Trump "melted down"
Peter Baker reporting on MSNBC that Trump insulted Pelosi to her face and clearly had a meltdown, so the Democrats walked out.
Link to tweet
highplainsdem
(48,906 posts)StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Never mind.
Cartoonist
(7,309 posts)They were actually present.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Volaris
(10,266 posts)But internally she was laughing her goddamm skinny ASS OFF!
'she will cut your goddamn head off, and you wont even know you're bleeding.'
Nancy, impeach the both of them and be done with this.
At this point, do it just because YOU CAN.
DENVERPOPS
(8,789 posts)When I was a kid, they didn't call it dementia or Alzheimers, they called it "their second childhood" because of their actions......
Sound familiar????????
The lard ass is a fucking bully and a pussy, and wouldn't dare get in a guy's face...........chicken shit....
WiffenPoof
(2,404 posts)... called her a "third grade" politician. He might have meant third rate.
Paladin
(28,243 posts)madaboutharry
(40,187 posts)and that she would be "sympathetic to communists."
woodsprite
(11,904 posts)lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Putin is the last communist in Russia.
erronis
(15,181 posts)JonLP24
(29,322 posts)They sold out to private corporations and oligarchs a long time ago. They have a two tier system. Rubles for the poor, dollar or euros for the rich.
OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)State corporations are established by the Russian government to boost industrial sectors. Rosstat figures show that 529,300 enterprises are partly or wholly owned by the state, of which between 30,000 and 31,000 are commercial companies (generating revenue). The 54 largest enterprises account for over two-thirds of the total revenues generated by state-owned organizations. SOEs account for 40% of the capitalization on the Russian stock market, one of the highest shares in the world.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-owned_enterprises_of_Russia
Putin has likely increased the government's ownership of enterprise, though estimates vary dramatically.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)But read this. Anything but communist.
https://www.quora.com/Is-Russia-a-democratic-or-communist-country
A superpower can be bad no matter what their ideology is though don't know if Russia counts as a super power anymore.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)Having significant amounts of capital in state hands simply means that it has a lot of state capital. Not advocating for or against but simply noting that everything doesn't neatly fall into being either capitalist or socialist. I have lived in countries that were very capitalist and had state enterprises.
OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)C'mon.
Yes, Russia is a mixed-economy, including oligarchs and kleptocrats. However, there is no western nation that is even remotely comparable to Russia in respect to state ownership of enterprise. Including, BTW, profit-making industries.
Russia is still predominantly a socialist nation. Not sure why anyone would attempt to argue otherwise.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)And the amount of state enterprises in an economy wouldn't be counted in the top 30.
You have a very 2 dimensional understanding of both socialism and state enterprises.
Apparently you are mot aware that the most highly developed fascist states of the 20th century had very prominent use of state enterprises.
Being a socialist country also means that state apparatus and access to power is widely held and accessible to the people.
Russia is the world's most concentrated plutocracy with the political, economic and legal power highly concentrated into the hands of a small group headed by Putin who has made a mockery of constitutional rule by not respecting limits to power and never leaving power despite term limits.
Having state owned enterprises have nothing to do whether a country is socialist or not because state owned enterprises in Russia are not run by independent non partisan boards with strong representation by state employee unions but instead are extensions of power by plutocrats.
This in fact exactly what the controversy in Ukraine about the State owned natural gas state enterprise is about, whether it will be operated under a board that is under the control of Putin or under the control of the new reform government.
Giuliani is part of a scheme to appoint new board members that would continue to require per cubic payments to Putin's hand picked representative as he has done in the past.
Putin uses state enterprises to siphon off billions to his crime operation his personal wealth. The state enterprises in Russia may be state owned on paper but they operate to enrich the plutocracy and not the citizenry and to call them socialist is naive.
England with its high tax rate, socialized medicine and a political/legal system that is accessible to the average citizen is 100 times more socialist than Putin's plutocracy which is run for the benefit of ruling elites.
OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)Neither of my replies suggested that Russia is a socialist state. Rather, they were in response to the assertion that "Russia is now less socialist than the West". It's an absurd argument that attaches to your contention that socialism is not, in fact, easily definable. You're welcome to establish an infinite number of dimensions to your definition, but it's just as ridiculous as all of the recent attempts by the left to re-define socialism according to the constructs of right-wing propagandists.
This board is replete with juvenile assertions that the West is socialist because we have public roads, education, military and welfare programs, including, laughably, Medicare and Social Security. Your English example is especially embarrassing, as England is arguably more democratic than, for example, the U.S., with its highly representative parliamentary system, myriad of voting systems, and national referenda.
If the state owns substantial industry, it doesn't matter "who" the state is. They are in competition with private enterprise or, more likely, have monopolized enterprises, thereby eliminating private competition altogether. That's true even if the "state" is corrupted. More socialist nations show more state ownership of the economy. It really is that simple.
Forget about England for a second. What does the U.S. government own? More specifically, what profit-making enterprises does the U.S. government own? Should be simple, as Russia is now less socialist than the West, right?
grantcart
(53,061 posts)state ownership of a state enterprise as some kind of a metric for how socialistic a country is. Clearly I overshot it by one dimension.
As I referenced above the nationalization of private companies was a key factor in the formation of the Nazification of the German economy in the 1930s
Nationalization was particularly important in the early 1930s in Germany. The state took over a large industrial concern, large commercial banks, and other minor firms.
In doing so, they went against the mainstream trends in western capitalistic countries, none of which systematically reprivatized firms during the 1930s. It was used as a political tool to enhance support for the government and for the Nazi Party. In addition, growing financial restrictions because of the cost of the rearmament programme provided additional motivations for privatization.
Does this mean that state enterprises are inherently fascist? No but by the same token they are not inherently socialist either.
The existence of state enterprises, by itself, has zero to do with whether a country is more or less socialistic and it is easily provable. I have lived in many countries, including a communist country, that have large use of state enterprises. I have in laws that work for those state enterprises.
In some cases a state enterprise will work for the benefit of the people and in other it serves as a conduit to skim off funds from the people for thieves in power. In Thailand the crooks in the previous regime stole money from one of the state enterprise banks and laundered the money through a Buddhist temple.
In Ukraine Putin insisted that a percentage of the pipeline profits from RosUkrEnergo' go to Semion Mogilevich.
Mogilevich is at the center of the Russian Mafia.
You can read more about him here
Mogilevich's nicknames include "Don Semyon" and "The Brainy Don" (because of his business acumen).[7] According to US diplomatic cables, he is said to control RosUkrEnergo, a company actively involved in RussiaUkraine gas disputes, and a partner of Raiffeisen Bank.[8]
He now lives freely in Moscow, and has three children. He is most closely associated with the Solntsevskaya Bratva crime group. Political figures he has close alliances with include Yury Luzhkov, the former Mayor of Moscow, Dmytro Firtash and Leonid Derkach, former head of the Security Service of Ukraine.[9][10] Oleksandr Turchynov, who was designated as acting President of Ukraine in February 2014, appeared in court in 2010 for allegedly destroying files pertaining to Mogilevich.[11] Defector Alexander Litvinenko, shortly before his assassination, claimed that Mogilevich had a "good relationship" with Vladimir Putin since the 1990s.[12]
When you take a state enterprise and force it to pay a percentage of its revenues to mafia organizations and those profits are shared with the political elite, as has been happening with Russian state enterprises those enterprises simple become a conduit of corruption for the plutocracy.
In the United States we have lots of corporations who function as state enterprises but we don't use that terminology.
A few examples, Public Utilities, Airports, Community College Systems and Professional Sports Arenas and Stadiums.
Clearly community colleges are operated more for the benefit of the citizenry and don't benefit any particular contractor or group so would be more "socialist" than not.
City and community owned airports operate for the benefit of the public and the corporations that run the airlines that use the airport. They are really neutral in terms of serving a particular constituency and aren't intended to return profits to the government agency that runs them.
Professional Sports Arenas and Stadiums which are owned mostly by cities offer their facilities to professional teams whose owners are almost all billionaires. With the exception of the Green Bay Packers whose stock is owned by the community these state enterprises are subsidizing the cost of the business for a class of billionaires whose investment has a much higher ROI than any other industry average. These state enterprises are the antithesis of "socialism" but the assets are owned by the community.
The term "State Enterprise" covers a wide range of varying type of organizations and is used in all kinds of governments from Nazi Germany to Stalinist USSR and even in mixed systems like ours. Anyone who thinks that the number of state enterprises indicates how the basic capital formation or market forces in a particular country operate simply doesn't understand the nature of state enterprises or the fundamentals of economics.
It is clear that you think that the statistics showing how many state enterprises there are somehow correlates to "state ownership of the economy"
There is no such correlation. Singapore has very few state corporations, much less on a per capita basis than other developed countries. The government of Singapore owns 76.2% of land in Singapore. There simply is no correlation between the number of state enterprises that operate in that country and as has been pointed out in detail above simply having government ownership doesn't mean that the enterprise operates for the benefit of the people. In a very large percent of the cases state enterprises operate to advance the wealth of the plutocracy and while that is true even here Russia (along with North Korea and Myanmar) is where the plutocracy operates a monopoly on the benefit of state enterprises.
Time is limited and there has to be a basic minimum of grey matter to justify the time spent and that metric also doesn't apply here. You can own the sub thread with any further irrelevancies you wish to deposit, I won't bother to read it but anyone who has made it this far can judge where the facts and reason lay for themselves.
sarge43
(28,940 posts)If they're accusing anyone of anything, nine out of ten they're doing it.
SergeStorms
(19,186 posts)99 out of 100 with Clown-Shoes-Trump in charge.
sarge43
(28,940 posts)OMGWTF
(3,940 posts)William Seger
(10,775 posts)Like Narcissus, who fell in love with his reflection, Trump only wants to see the beautiful image of Donnie -- the one he attempts to project -- reflected in everyone around him. When he instead sees the real Donnie and his faults, which he is well aware of, it sends him into a narcissistic rage, and the only way he can sooth his damaged ego is to accuse others of having those faults.
ThoughtCriminal
(14,046 posts)I would guess that there are probably more actual Communists in Wyoming.
bdamomma
(63,799 posts)look in the fucking mirror
This is all for money, you need to hear Randi Rhodes. It's all about money.
BeyondGeography
(39,345 posts)Maybe hes not feeling well.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,164 posts)The same Putin who was head of the KGB in the old communist Soviet Union. Who regularly went after American spies, and for the evangelicals enlightenment shut down "illegal" evangelical churches, and tortured and imprisoned Bible smugglers.
Rebl2
(13,461 posts)goes again projecting!
soldierant
(6,791 posts)I'm sympathetic to some ... like Paul Robeson.
I'm sure that the Mango Maggot is sympathetic to some ... like Josef Stalin.
But I don't believe Vlad is a Communist, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't call himself one. He's certainly happy with his stranglehold on the Orthodox Church there. I think he's a combination of a dictator and a plutocrat.
JonLP24
(29,322 posts)Miles Archer
(18,837 posts)Fucking CHILD. JESUS.
shockey80
(4,379 posts)His brain will not be able to handle it.
SergeStorms
(19,186 posts)he'll have a law passed, or buy Merriam Webster's, and change the meaning of 'impeached' to - "King of all Humans". He'd do it if he could, believe me. His sub-atomic sized brain won't be able to handle the truth about himself.
Lonestarblue
(9,958 posts)Im sure he can live well in Saudi Arabia, though they may not have much use for him once hes out of power and cant grant them favors. Why would they even follow up on their likely promises for billions to be invested in his real estate.
Marcuse
(7,446 posts)bluestarone
(16,859 posts)Throw some water on him, he could melt! Kinda neat to see him self destruct!
NJCher
(35,619 posts)"3rd rate politician" = "you're getting to me" in Trump-speak
Vinnie From Indy
(10,820 posts)He is not right!
MuseRider
(34,095 posts)until he totally falls apart. It is the only way to be sure we get rid of him. The rest of them are no picnic but this man is completely unstable and getting worse.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)just needs to look at him and he spirals out of control.
My grandmother could do that ...
MFGsunny
(2,356 posts)This one is on your behalf, Madame Speaker ::
"I am rubber you are glue, whatever you say bounces off of me, and sticks to you!"
H2O Man
(73,506 posts)I hope he's not okay!
Recommended. And thank you for this!
trueblue2007
(17,193 posts)Instant Liberal
(66 posts)Mike 03
(16,616 posts)This sounds really important. Trying to find out more. Will Nancy and Chuck say more about what happened?
intrepidity
(7,275 posts)Well done!
tblue37
(65,218 posts)JHB
(37,154 posts)Just right-click, save, and use it to update your DU avatar.
nolabear
(41,932 posts)That asshole. He's disgusting.
Gothmog
(144,919 posts)Turin_C3PO
(13,909 posts)Simple as that.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Turin_C3PO
(13,909 posts)It does make me happy that Nancy continues to rent so much space in his head.
DinahMoeHum
(21,774 posts)Last edited Wed Oct 16, 2019, 08:23 PM - Edit history (1)
Baby! Baby!! Waaah!!! WAAAH!!!
But if anyone knows how to potty-train his kind, it's Pelosi.
gordianot
(15,233 posts)Trump has no good moments and most definitely not cute.
LiberalBrooke
(527 posts)They are so cute most of the times and I can even appreciate their meltdowns because they are trying to understand. I remember one of my grandchildren saying grandma, Im crying when I was ignoring her. Of course she had to stop crying to say it. I had a hard time keeping a straight face.
Blue Owl
(50,256 posts)DinahMoeHum
(21,774 posts). . .with 5 children and 9 grandchildren.
MontanaMama
(23,295 posts)Fucking train wreck.
Raven123
(4,791 posts)Just trying to figure out why Dems are there and the GOP is not. Supposedly, this is a big deal for them
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)The Liberal Lion
(1,414 posts)he just gave the Speaker a compliment.
Hekate
(90,552 posts)I didn't think I could still be this shocked, but I'm kind of dizzy
Danascot
(4,690 posts)bluestarone
(16,859 posts)Every DEM. should be prepared and carry one on their lapel
NJCher
(35,619 posts)little pacifiers pinned to their lapels, right under the American flag pin.
------------
I used to teach a course on how to deal with difficult people. This is what you're supposed to do when someone has a meltdown--say, "I'm sorry you're so angry right now; we can have this discussion at another time." Then leave. Never, ever negotiate with someone who's having either a snit or a meltdown.
I just love it that he's feeling the heat and can't control himself.
Pepsidog
(6,254 posts)SergeStorms
(19,186 posts)Today I learned that shit can melt down. What it melts down into I haven't found out yet, but I'll keep you posted.
Hugin
(33,045 posts)Probably?
Won't someone think about the poor infrastructure!
gademocrat7
(10,644 posts)His tantrums will get worse.
spooky3
(34,403 posts)amb123
(1,580 posts)Just like Hitler.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,249 posts)Vlad's double-headed eagle should be replaced with a chicken.
GoCubsGo
(32,074 posts)GET. HIM. THE. FUCK. OUT. OF. THERE.
ecstatic
(32,648 posts)lpbk2713
(42,736 posts)He's headed for a physical and/or emotional collapse.
My guess is before Christmas.
Cousin Dupree
(1,866 posts)appleannie1
(5,062 posts)He can't hold a candle to Pelosi and knows it so he resorts to a temper tantrum.
Hulk
(6,699 posts)Honest to God, every insulting thing he says about ANYBODY seems to be a honest reflection of himself. I'm not exaggerating. I think the guy is mentally disturbed.
Mc Mike
(9,111 posts)it wouldn't be nearly enough.
ThoughtCriminal
(14,046 posts)and even criticized Pelosi for leaving. They are encouraging this infantile behavior from Trump, and are proving that they too are unfit for the offices they hold.
LuckyLib
(6,817 posts)Mr President, you are OUT OF LINE! Not one? The guy would be a national hero.
irisblue
(32,928 posts)Judd Legum (@JuddLegum) Tweeted:
This is a photo of a powerful woman standing up to the president https://t.co/YGFFm7reQ4
Link to tweet
?s=17
ffr
(22,665 posts)stuffmatters
(2,574 posts)Gothmog
(144,919 posts)jayschool2013
(2,311 posts)Of course, he's a sociopath and a pathological liar, and she's an ethical and accomplished legislator.
So I'm going with "she said."
zentrum
(9,865 posts)...while gross, un-Presidential and childish, doesn't sound like much of a "meltdown" to me.
Pelosi and Schumer will have to say more than that or just look thin-skinned.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Wow.
zentrum
(9,865 posts)Name-calling does not equal melt-down.
I'm not saying he didn't melt-down. I'm saying they need to describe it with more detail.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)And they could be given a treatise and still not get it.
So, no.
zentrum
(9,865 posts)....my comment, we did not have any additional description from her, which we have subsequently received, which is what I was asking for.
Guess Democrats who get our message out to the media agreed that more was needed than just a name-call.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)My apologies.
zentrum
(9,865 posts)Thanks.
obamanut2012
(26,046 posts)zentrum
(9,865 posts)Let's see how it plays out in the media over the next few days.
Update: Ah---I see she is now releasing more details. That's all I wanted.
edbermac
(15,933 posts)Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(107,739 posts)ffr
(22,665 posts)sakabatou
(42,136 posts)how else are you going to talk?
bdamomma
(63,799 posts)it arrest this fucking POS.
Hassler
(3,369 posts)Aussie105
(5,319 posts)Trump needs to go somewhere quiet and secure for detox, and get himself a life coach.
Nancy can run the place until Trump is detoxed, human, and has had an injection of humility and empathy. Followed by a 6 month crash course on 'How to be a US President' with intensive study on the Constitution, the political history of the US, and what the different branches of government actually do.
Throw in some anti-tantrum training, some anti-abuse coaching, and he will be good to go back to his job.
On the proviso of course, that he passes all aspects of his re-education.
empedocles
(15,751 posts)xxqqqzme
(14,887 posts)later corrected Schumer saying king con called her a "third grade politician".