I had to give someone some really bad news today and it was not a pleasant task.

[Fumesucker]

A single mother I know had her 1993 car overheat the other day after the water pump failed. Since I'm a decent shade tree mechanic I volunteered to help her out by putting a new water pump on it. I don't do this lightly because I have developed an allergy to that sort of greasy grime that makes the skin on my hands crack and bleed and this is a twenty year old car with three hundred thousand miles that has a lot of greasy grime build up.

However this was a family friend with a sixteen year old daughter and this poor old car was her only means of transportation so I started this morning as soon as it was daylight and before the humid heat of the day. When I tried to start the car to move it off the gravel and onto the slab where I was going to work on it the engine did not sound good and wouldn't start despite cranking it for a long time. So I got out the compression tester, a simple diagnostic tool for determining engine condition. The engine is toast, it would require a major rebuild to ever run again and the car simply isn't worth the effort, all it had to do was make it until tax time next year, another four months and our friend would have had enough to get another hooptie wagon.

Since my friend had let her cell phone go unpaid due to no money I had to call her at her work and tell her I couldn't fix the car, it nearly broke my heart and I could tell she was holding back tears.

Now there is a woman living in the suburbs with a sixteen year old, not even enough money for groceries and now no way to get to work unless her coworkers pick her up and drop her off each day, which they have been doing for the last few days while she tried to get her car fixed with no money. I had paid the fifty bucks for the water pump with my SS debit card but I just don't have the money to help her get another car, she and I are both at our wits end as to what to do.

There are three hundred plus million stories in America and this is one of them.

[cbayer]

1. That is so sad, and like you say, all too common.

I hope that she is able to find some solution. It is sometimes in situations like these that we find resources in the community which we didn't even know existed.

Kudos to you for trying.

[NYC_SKP]

41. I agree, an all-too-common story of misery, but also one of greatness of our people.

Of, fumesucker, in particular, representing the best of us!

[cbayer]

47. fumesucker is a great guy and one of our heroes.

Like I said, sometimes you don't know what you are surrounded with until things go wrong.

[grantcart]

2. Thank you for trying

[kestrel91316]

3. THIS is why I want to win the lottery. I swear to god I would spend all day every day

trying to make that ONE critical difference in desperate people's lives.

[TahitiNut]

22. Anonymously.

THAT'S my dream. Random Acts of Kindness ... anonymously ... making a difference. I'd giggle my way to sleep every night.

[kestrel91316]

44. Exactly.

[DesertFlower]

61. same here. nt

[Bluerthanblue]

4. how about posting to Wishadoo?

It was started by a DUer I believe-

link here:
http://www.wishadoo.org/

I've participated a few times, not much because I don't have much, but it's worth a try-

We ALL need each other, especially these days.

thank you for your compassion and caring.

[findrskeep]

54. Wishadoo

was indeed started by fellow DU'er OneGrassRoot. Do check it out because to help this type of situation is exactly what it was intended to do.

[Fumesucker]

63. I'm looking at it now, doesn't seem like a great deal of activity there at the moment..

I appreciate your input.

[riderinthestorm]

5. I have no suggestions. Can she bike it? Or her daughter?

Finding a free bike on Wishadoo or Craisglist may be possible. Stories like this make me feel so impotent and helpless...

[Fumesucker]

18. I have an old bike or two and have already offered that..

Haven't really had the time to discuss things with her as she was at work, our roads are really dangerous for biking, high speeds and no shoulders for the most part, also she works evenings until midnight or later sometimes.

The daughter is doing a distance learning thing and only goes to actual class once a week apparently so that's not so much of an issue as it could easily be..

[Liberal_in_LA]

6. heartbreaking. No bus system in your area?

[nobodyspecial]

8. No bus system outside most metro areas

Public trans is often not an option.

[Liberal_in_LA]

13. I see. Los Angeles has buses, trains, subways, all over the place

hard to imagine being at the mercy of only cars.

[Fumesucker]

11. Unfortunately no, we are in a far exurb, the closest bus line is at least ten miles away..

[Liberal_in_LA]

14. wow. check out craigs list for a car pool?

[Fumesucker]

15. My friend works at a pizza restaurant and has hours that just won't accommodate that..

Variable hours and late nights sometimes too.

Thanks for the suggestion though, I hadn't thought of that.

[Trillo]

7. Engine overheated due to water pump going out?

That probably caused a cascade failure like a blown head gasket, possibly between cylinders, which would show as bad compression reading on one or more cylinders.

Overheating often causes head gaskets to fail. Even if the rings are okay (unlikely at 300K), taking the heads off and replacing just the top end, with a valve job, is a bit more work than a simpler water pump replacement. With 300K miles, your judgment is probably correct. Rings likely don't have much wear left, even if the compression readings could be improved with a top-end job and head gasket replacement.

I used to see advertisements for rebuilt engines in the $600 dollar range, but that was more than 10 years ago, so probably more now, and it's still a lot of labor to install, plus you need a hoist. At 300K miles, the rest of the car is probably falling apart.

[Fumesucker]

10. It's an Altima so the water pump comes out of the right front wheel well..

I couldn't do a head job on it anyway, just testing the compression made my back hurt and that only took about fifteen minutes, the water pump didn't demand I lean over the car while a head job will take a lot of that, more than I can realistically do.

The compression rings have overheated and lost their tension I believe, 75 lbs on one cylinder, 30 on two more and 10 on the last one, it could well have a blown gasket too.

I could get her a decent running beater for a grand on Craigslist, I've already looked and found a couple of possible candidates not too far away but no one has any money..

The car is worth about $200 to $250 at the scrap yard but there's no way to get it there.

[hedgehog]

39. Around here, people will buy the car and tow it to the scrap yard themselves.

You won't get full price, but you'll get something.

Thinking outside the box - would someone take $100 to drive here to work a few weeks?

[Fumesucker]

59. Yeah, they do that here too..

I've been doing a little local networking since I posted and may have come up with a way to get the car to the scrap yard so she can get full price.

She's already got co workers driving her, I'm sure she's offering gas money but that's not really a long term option because of shopping and other things she needs transportation for.

[Trillo]

48. You can squirt motor oil in the cylinder

Last edited Mon Sep 3, 2012, 07:52 PM - Edit history (1)

not sure how much, maybe a teaspoon or so, I always favor a thicker motor oil, and repeat the cranking pressure test. If it's 'Only' bad rings, that will increase the cylinder cranking pressure values.

Another test is to pressurize the cylinder with 100 PSI or so, but you need special tools like a compressor and the right spark-plug hole fitting to do this, and it's more dangerous as the piston always finds Bottom Dead Center real quick, so you have to manually place it close to BDC, by rotating the crankshaft. You have to make sure the valves on all the cylinders are closed, which often means removing the cam followers. If there's a hole between cylinders, such as a burned head gasket might create, air will exit an adjoining cylinder. On one occasion when performing this test, I observed bubbles coming up and out the valve stem, indicating burned valves and/or valve seats (in this case, it was burned valve seats).

I was just curious about the cost of a crate engine, it looks like they're commonly $1000-$2000 now. Maybe that $600 was more than 10 years ago. Time goes faster now . Another possibility is a wrecking-yard engine, with some kind of guarantee that it's still in reasonably good running shape. Much depends upon what is available in your local area, and whether the rest of the body is worth investing that much time and effort.

But your back isn't up to it, and neither is mine. I despise working on cars now.

Your friend is lucky to have you helping. Thanks for paying helpfulness forward.

[glacierbay]

68. And if you do just a top end rebuild

the added compression from a valve job will completely blow out the compression rings and oil rings. 3000+ miles? Yeah, the engine is pretty well toast.

[Hissyspit]

37. I burned out an engine when the water-pump quit about twenty years ago.

Honda Civic, I believe. I kept driving for some reason when I heard the noise, desperate to get home or thinking it was something else, or something like that.

The engine was trashed and my father had to buy me a new one. It cost about $1,000, but he happened to be buying a new car, and he or my Mom had thrown a coupon for $1,000 off from the dealer my dad bought the car from. I found it in the trash and gave it to my Mom. They went back to the dealer and he honored it. So it evened out.

[Trillo]

60. One of the most valuable aftermarket "upgrades" is

an engine temperature gauge. When the engine starts running hotter than normal, shut down the engine and try to figure out why. Often it's something simple like a stuck thermostat, or an aged radiator, or a coolant leak. However, even these gauges can fail when all the coolant leaks out, they get too hot and fail themselves (release their gas inside a capillary tube). Redundancy is good in regards to engine temperature. Towing charges are often the less expensive route.

You had a stroke of luck with that coupon!

[localroger]

9. A little off your message, but worth pressing:

If your car overheats, SHUT IT DOWN. Modern car engines are quickly destroyed by overheating. Many people try to bull it through until the car just won't go forward any more, not realizing that they are turning a $100 problem into a new car problem.

My wife destroyed one of our cars this way, a Geo Metro that had been quite the trooper for us until it overheated on her and she just kept going. When I told her I had sold the car to the tow shop for $250 she was aghast and complained that she'd done the same thing to our classic '66 Fleetwood Cadillac and it had been fine. I explained to her that that car had a steel engine, not aluminum, the engine was far oversized for her very flat Louisiana drive home, and she'd done that in mid-winter when the temperature was about freezing and she'd still been lucky.

If you see steam coming out from beneath the hood, STOP DRIVING. Modern cars are wonderful in all kinds of ways compared to older ones but this is not one of those ways. You will quickly destroy your car if you drive it when it's overheating.

[Fumesucker]

12. Good point, thanks for sharing.. n/t

[Chorophyll]

46. Thanks, localroger. I've made a note of it.

Also, here's a kick for Fumesucker and friend. Maybe someone more creative than me will come up with a workable plan.

[graywarrior]

16. Sometimes Goodwill and other non profits sell donated cars

Mechanics can usually tell what is wrong with the car and fix it easily. See if there is a place around that accepts donated cars to find something that you can fix for her. Sometimes, you can buy a car for $100.

[physioex]

17. Thank your posting.....

What you did was wonderful. I am sorry for this situation.

[liberalhistorian]

19. I'm very sorry for your friend; I've been there in the past and,

had it not been for my wonderful parents, things could and would have been a lot worse. Bless you for doing your best to try to use your skills to help out, it's people like you who make a difference.

I almost hate to suggest this because it really isn't a perfect solution, but I had to resort to it when I was nearly the same situation about ten years ago and it really did help. I went to one of those car dealerships that specialize in cars and lending for low-income people with less-than-great credit. I was able to get a really good, reliable car at a monthly payment I could afford, given my income and expenses/bills. You give them detailed income information (they will generally ask for pay stubs as well) and they go through your credit and see what monthly payments you have each month; they then use this information to determine what kind of payments you can make and, therefore, what kind of car you will be offered.

Now, I won't lie, the interest rate I paid was horrendous. But that was the price I had to pay if I wanted the car, and I really had no choice because I had to have one for work and transporting my son where he needed to go. I could make the payments and made them religiously over the next four years, never missing one, even shuffling other things around if I had to.

Again, I won't lie, if you can't make the payments, they can and will repossess the car and you're even more screwed, but they tried to avoid that by figuring out what you could afford each month based on your income and expenses anyway. But it was the only way and it really did work out for me. The car was five years old and I had it for eight more years. I would still have it if an oil change outfit last fall hadn't ruined it by draining the oil, but not putting new oil in before declaring it "done" (they said their "procedures broke down"-ya, no shit!!!). It was one of the most reliable, dependable cars I've ever had, and I put a TON of miles on it. I realize that's not the best solution, of course. But for her, it may be the only possibility. I do recognize, though, that a lot of places have really tightened up credit in the past four years, so it might not be as simple as it was for me ten years ago.

[Sherman A1]

21. I think that is good advice

granted it is not ideal, but the situation these folks find themselves in, is likewise not ideal.

And my wife hard a good car destroyed by one of those oil change places, except it damn near killed her and wrecked the engine. We found that there was nothing we could do to prove it was them, traded the car and avoid all of them like the plague. I always go to my neighborhood mechanic who takes care of our family vehicles.

[liberalhistorian]

49. I'm sorry to hear that you couldn't get

the oil change place to accept responsibility. We thought there'd be much more of a fight, but we were lucky in that respect; they immediately accepted responsibility, made a decent offer that was even more than what the car was worth at that point, and we had the check in just a few days. Perhaps the fact that we were less than a mile from the place when the car stopped (fortunately right by an auto shop) and that there was no oil in the engine at all, with no sign of any leak, may have just persuaded them, as well as the fact that hubby's an attorney. The cynical part of us thinks that they may deal with that all the time, so just consider it a cost of business. But that's the only time that that has ever happened to me in all the times and places I've had it done, so I can't complain too much.

[lildreamer316]

64. Credit Acceptance

is the name of the company that financed my SO and I when we were in this situation. Yes, we had a 27% interest rate; BUT they reported to BOTH our credit scores EVERY month. That alone was mostly worth it. My rating is now so good I get card offers in the mail; etc.

[turtlerescue1]

20. I am saddened by this too,

and I'm so near that same situation, scares the poop out of me.

Its always the poor that try to help each other to keep going. Its something that the Fundie repiglicans don't understand.

I'll be praying for her to find a blessing.

My old 21 year old truck died, most vehicles don't last that long with so little problems. I had no idea what would happen. OUT OF NOWHERE, and that's the plain truth. Of course now I can't afford tires for the Cougar, but I don't have a job to go to, have my partial SS, and thankfully decided to get online once again. So I stay home a lot. YET I know there are so many like me younger with kids to take care.

May you be blessed for what you did Fumesucker.

[notadmblnd]

23. Where are you? I have an old truck in the driveway, it aint pretty but it runs.

My sister mistakenly burnt the title, but we are just going to scrap it when she gets a new one.

[Fumesucker]

27. Thanks! PM sent..

[Loudly]

29. You are awesome!

[Johnny Noshoes]

50. You....

are a beautiful person!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

24. In CIVILIZED countries, they have bus service out in the boonies

and poor people aren't so dependent on maintaining a car that they can't really afford.

[loli phabay]

32. yeah but even there its not like a bus every hour or even early or late

Just depends were you are.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

74. Actually, in many countries, there IS a bus every hour, more than once an hour

in some cases.

[loli phabay]

77. not in rural areas. you get spotty coverage with sometimes only a couple of buses a day

It all depends on the individual area and the popularity of the route. If you think everywhere is well served then you havent lived in a rural area.

[RebelOne]

33. I live in Georgia outside of Atlanta in a civilized country.

And there is no bus service in my area. If you so not have a car or bike, you are out of luck.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

75. I'm not so sure we're a civilized country anymore, not when

demonization of the poor and measures to make life more difficult for the poor are socially acceptable. (That's aside from invading other countries and sabre-rattling against others because they're uppity towards us.)

[Flying Squirrel]

25. I don't know if she's done this or not...

(You mentioned tax time so I thought of this)

I used to turn in a W-5 to my employer. By doing so, I got some advance EIC (earned income credit) added to each paycheck. It helped me get by, though it wasn't as nice at tax return time (I still got a refund too though). Might want to suggest it to her.

Good luck!

[shireen]

26. please keep us updated ...

my heart goes out to her. I wish i could do something.

I see so much need around me, and my instinct is to help but even when i do, it never seems to be enough. It's emotionally draining because i get so frustrated and upset. I wonder if someone like Mitt Romney, surrounded by his billions, ever feels that way.

[AnnieK401]

28. Touching story.

And you are an incredible person for trying to help her.

[raccoon]

30. That was so kind of you to work on the car. nt

[Cleita]

31. So sorry for this woman.

Let's hope her co-workers and friends continue to be good samaritans. Maybe if she offers some of the money she would have spent on gas to a co-worker to drive her to work for the foreseeable future, it could help out. I know it won't help when she needs to go to the store or drive her kid somewhere, but at least it might get her to the job.

[patrice]

34. No mass transit? Lots of us are one major auto repair bill away from disaster. It's sad!

[Cleita]

35. Not so much in the suburbs and boonies.

I know I will be in trouble when my car finally fails. The closest bus stop is three miles away. I still can walk it, but it also only runs twice a day to the shopping and medical centers, where I would need to go. We really need a system of public transportation that goes into the suburban areas. People need it.

[patrice]

42. Concurrently with mass transit, if we'd make a commitment to functional co - operative living

environments, both private and public investments in transportation could be optimized.

[Cleita]

45. Remember all those shovel ready projects that were talked about to

put Americans back to work? This could have been one of them. Between building the infrastructure and machines and then hiring the people who would run the transit could have been as big a change for the better as the interstate Hwy system built by Eisenhower. Of course fares would have to have been subsidized to make them affordable to all, but just how much profit do the foreign oil companies make? I'd say that would be a good source of tax revenue.

[patrice]

52. There are many solutions in focusing very specifically on how to build authentic communities

many multi-dimensional multi-generational solutions.

Let's. do!! it.

[lillypaddle]

36. Thank you for your kindness

No matter what, I know it meant a lot.

[renate]

38. how sweet of you to help her

I wonder whether she has friends who've been laid off or something and who aren't using their cars as much any more. Isn't it sad that we have to think like that--that layoffs are so common that there's a good chance she knows someone who's been affected?

Or does she know a senior citizen who has a car but can't/shouldn't drive, and offer to run errands etc in return for the use of the car?

[justabob]

53. good ideas

Especially a senior person who might need help. That would be a good thing for both parties.

[Drahthaardogs]

40. We had to total my daughter's car.

Junk for scrap metal is going for about $800. Not a lot of money, but it still has some value to it.

[Jumping John]

43. You are just one of many 99%ers who are the first volunteers who make up an important

part of the safety net for the needy sir. And I thank you for that.

[upi402]

51. Romney would triple the number suffering like this

Fumesucker you did a good thing. And I sincerely hope there is a heaven and a hell. You and she will go to the light, and the False Profits like Bush and Romney will get their murderous, greedy due.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

55. I've no idea if the DNC or her local reps know about this, but something must be done. Too common.

[Warpy]

56. Making and old wreck last until tax refund time,

I know that dance all too well. Now she'll have to hope someone will extend her credit to buy another tuna wagon that's almost as close to disaster as the one she'll have to junk out was and that will leave her even less to live on.

Sometimes I hate this country for what it's done to working people over the last 35 years. Then I realize most of the stinginess was on one side.

[obxhead]

57. Maybe a Craiglist barter?

It's a shitty situation. Maybe there's something they can part with that will get that next hooptie wagon many of us have struggled with for years.

[Th1onein]

58. Where do these people live, Fumesucker?

I know of someone who has an old beater with about 100 thousand miles on it.

[Fumesucker]

62. Thanks! PM sent..

[jimlup]

65. I think what gets me is all the folks who can't imagine being in this situation...

they have always had it handed to them and so they self-righteously explain how they have set themselves up to be protected from such situations. Well the real truth is we'd have done this too if we weren't working at our wits end to survive.

Like the people who say you should have a "years worth of savings to cover unexpected unemployment". Well that's nice but if each paycheck just barely pays the rent how the hell are you suppose to accumulate "a years worth of savings".

I know I'm not alone in dealing with this shit. I think maybe that is what we need is to realize that there are others in similar situations. As many before us have said we need to ORGANIZE!

[WinkyDink]

66. Romney has a car elevator she could use.

[glacierbay]

67. If everyone on DU

could afford to send one or two bucks to you to give to this poor woman, I bet she could then afford a decent car.
Whadda say folks, I'm in, anyone else?
All I need is an address, like maybe a P.O. Box and I'll have a money order on the way by tomorrow or the next day.

[Blanks]

72. I had that same thought.

I could probably spare a couple of bucks.

Maybe a five.

[Odin2005]

69. This is why I consider decent mass transit a human rights issue.

If you don't have a car in this country, either because you can't afford to drive or because you have some issue or disability that makes driving impossible, you are essentially a 2nd class citizen. A lot of places will not hire you and just going to the store to get food and necessities is an ordeal.

This is why I get very angry at Libertarian types who only believe in "negative liberty" while dismissing "positive liberty" as a socialist conspiracy to take their money.

[anneboleyn]

70. Can you keep us updated? Is there anyway a fund could be set up? Do any potential donors live close?

[arikara]

71. Try putting a request out on Craigslist and even your local paper

Sometimes people around here will decide that they'd rather pass their old car on to someone who needs it instead of using it for a trade in. If its publicized properly they can even get a shop to check it out and repair it for nothing. I think there's some charities that take used cars for people who need them too.

I wanted to donate my old car but at 22 years old and 200,000 miles it was past the point of repair. I didn't want to give someone more problems than they had.

[MindPilot]

73. A little late, but are you sure it's not just a timing belt?

Often times they will break or slip concurrently with an overheating problem. That will cause compression to be very low and varied on all cylinders, something that is not going to happen if it is just wear.

[lonestarnot]

76. Damn awful.

Fumesucker you are a star!