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Thu Oct 24, 2019, 01:14 AM

I tire of the excuses and blame for the last selection

Last election and now Facebook is repeatedly being singled out as THE flashpoint for election disinformation. The primary accusers are the Republican-owned broadcast media—who do nothing if not disinform and echo the Republican agenda regularly.

It’s not that I’m pro-Facebook. Instead, I see social media as the greatest asset there is to people and to democracy world wide—and an asset to democracy is a threat to oligarchs.

So why are too many willing to accept the spin of the oligarchs regarding their biggest competitor(s)? There's no better way to destroy a threat than by tainting it with doubt and conspiracy—which is exactly what they are doing.

I need to develop my thinking further around this issue but I think I got my primary point across. Your thoughts?



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Arrow 19 replies Author Time Post
Reply I tire of the excuses and blame for the last selection (Original post)
live love laugh Oct 2019 OP
PSPS Oct 2019 #1
radical noodle Oct 2019 #2
PSPS Oct 2019 #12
radical noodle Oct 2019 #17
live love laugh Oct 2019 #13
stopdiggin Oct 2019 #3
live love laugh Oct 2019 #14
stopdiggin Oct 2019 #18
stopdiggin Oct 2019 #4
Celerity Oct 2019 #5
herding cats Oct 2019 #6
Celerity Oct 2019 #9
herding cats Oct 2019 #10
Celerity Oct 2019 #11
live love laugh Oct 2019 #16
live love laugh Oct 2019 #15
herding cats Oct 2019 #7
Wounded Bear Oct 2019 #8
Sugar Smack Oct 2019 #19

Response to live love laugh (Original post)

Thu Oct 24, 2019, 01:21 AM

1. "the greatest asset there is to people and to democracy world wide"

It could be if the owners of the platforms shared that philosophy. Unfortunately, Zuckerberg and his ilk see it as merely something to "monetize" and, thus, will manage it to encourage discord, divisiveness and outrage. It's part of the "outrage industry." Just today, Zuckerberg as much as stated that facebook will now let politicians promote outright lies on facebook as long as they (or their russian sponsors and proxies) pay to do it.

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Response to PSPS (Reply #1)

Thu Oct 24, 2019, 01:34 AM

2. Fox does that...

Politicians promote outright lies on Fox. Why do we expect Facebook to monitor them when Fox intentionally does it?

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Response to radical noodle (Reply #2)

Thu Oct 24, 2019, 08:19 AM

12. That's a whataboutism worthy of zuckerburg

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Response to PSPS (Reply #12)

Thu Oct 24, 2019, 10:00 AM

17. No it isn't

It's a valid point. Where are the hearings about the lies on Fox? I'm not necessarily defending Facebook, I'm saying that no one else seems to monitor the ads of politicians or political pacs.

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Response to radical noodle (Reply #2)

Thu Oct 24, 2019, 08:30 AM

13. There's a media monopoly but nobody's going after that

Cable, television and radio are right wing tools and the right wing media never questions that—which would mean questioning themselves. The conversation should not focus on a single competitor. Break all of them up.

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Response to live love laugh (Original post)

Thu Oct 24, 2019, 02:49 AM

3. I don't know. It seems to be a bit more complex than that.

10 years ago we were probably comfortable advancing the argument that the solution to lies and disinformation was .. more information .. more discourse. With what we've learned over the intervening .. it appears like it doesn't exactly work that way. At at least not reliably. I don't think there's any doubt at all that social media has given a powerful boost to all sorts of nasties, both in this country, around the globe. Confirmation bias seems to be the equal or better of truth in real world situations. Very sadly.

I don't know what the answer is .. but I think it's time we discarded our naivety. We need to look closely, and critically, at what we're creating. And as a last thought .. Mark Zuckerberg is NO kind of leader .. morally, ethically, financially, or in any other way that matters.

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Response to stopdiggin (Reply #3)

Thu Oct 24, 2019, 08:42 AM

14. I agree Zuckerberg is not a leader but Roger Ailes

isn’t either. Nobody talks about breaking up Faux. And if all social media is being used why are the rest being given a pass? The disparity is akin to a crime being committed and police only investigating one suspect when many are available.

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Response to live love laugh (Reply #14)

Thu Oct 24, 2019, 02:26 PM

18. on the same page there

And I'm not sure if there IS such a thing as "policing" the media, when you get down to brass tacks. (is a "state approved" media really anything other than the state?) I haven't really signed on, or even taken a position, on the idea of breaking up FB (which I think remains just an idea at this point). As I said before, I don't have any really good answers .. but I do see a huge problem.

And Zuckerberg's cavalier, "give-a-sh*t", attitude toward his impact on the elections and democracy in general .. frankly pisses me off! Big time. So I wouldn't mind too much if somebody slapped the sh*t out of the smarmy little pr*ck .. even while recognizing that it might not represent justice or good policy in the truest sense.

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Response to live love laugh (Original post)

Thu Oct 24, 2019, 03:00 AM

4. "THE flashpoint for election disinformation"

It not only WAS the flashpoint (according to all reliable sources) .. but then they also managed to LOSE a lot of user data in the direction of the lovely Cambridge Analytica (and who knows who else) .. which ALSO help throw a thumb on the scales. Stop making excuses for these clowns! They were utterly irresponsible in every sense .. and Zuckerberg flat out doesn't CARE.

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Response to live love laugh (Original post)

Thu Oct 24, 2019, 03:30 AM

5. Decades of RW talk radio and Fux Newz have done a lot more damage than FB and Twitter have done

IMHO

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Response to Celerity (Reply #5)

Thu Oct 24, 2019, 04:19 AM

6. That's history.

Social media is the now, IMO.

Who listens to radio? Aging people are pretty much their market. Even my UPS driver is now listening to podcasts. Evolution, it's real.

I (sadly) know millennials who use Facebook, twitter and Instagram to spread RW smears to a modern market. It's where many more people are now being indoctrinated.

Edit to add: 1% of the population is now watching FOX, and they're by and large not young. Social media is where this rot is spreading with younger people.

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Response to herding cats (Reply #6)

Thu Oct 24, 2019, 04:43 AM

9. I am on the border of Gen and a Millennial, and in terms of shaping the current situation, without

the foundation of RW hate radio and Fux and other RW media, FB and Twitter would be far less effective. That will, probably change soon, say in 5, 10, 20 years MAX (hopefully less) as the RW Boomers and Silent Gen (very few 'Greatest Gen' left, and BTW, WHAT a fucking arrogant name! Sure was NOT the greatest gen for people like me (mixed race lesbian) die off and hopefully do not leave such an impact on the Gen Xers (maybe too late for many of them) but especially on us Gen Z/Millenials.

RW hate radio and Fux and RW media (and their general messages of hate and manipulations) are spread on the net too, btw, far more than you seem to be taking into account, IMHO. Same for another huge hate factor, fundie religion.

I think we are both on the same overall page btw, regardless of some minor differences.

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Response to Celerity (Reply #9)

Thu Oct 24, 2019, 05:15 AM

10. I suspect we're on basically the same page.

We recognize the origins and see the transition.

I just think we might be disagreeing (albeit slightly) on the current impact of both.

Like I say about my allies in arms elsewhere, we're more alike than we are different and working toward the same goal.

Hate radio and all cable news (streaming which is expensive now) are dying a faster death than some expected. Podcast and social media are the new now for media.

GenZ and Milllenials seldom do cable (unless they're logging in and sharing parent's accounts) and never do radio. Even Sirius radio is failing in their demographic. It's dead to them. Hate radio will morph into hate podcast soon. Watch and see if I'm not correct.. It'd easier to miss a podcast due to life - we've all been there - than it is to blindly hear radio while driving.

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Response to herding cats (Reply #10)

Thu Oct 24, 2019, 05:57 AM

11. I watch MSNBC on the net from here in the EU (I am 23). I have not listened to the radio

ever in years, other than if it was on in the background at a business or a friend's parent house. I hate most social media (especially FB), but love podcasts and YouTube vids and live streams. I also read.. A LOT, real books, I like the tactile feel, lolol.

When I was living in the US (Los Angeles mostly, but have been to many States), I saw Fux and heard the radio on at so so many places (and I can but imagine what it must be like in Red Sate and rural America.) I so hope it (RW US hate radio and Fux, and other RW media) does truly start to really die out!

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Response to herding cats (Reply #10)

Thu Oct 24, 2019, 08:53 AM

16. herding cats the dying right wing media is part of

what I’m talking about—they are being eclipsed by forces they never anticipated when Reagan enabled their takeover of the airwaves. They attack their biggest competitors—just like they constantly attack Tesla another threat.

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Response to Celerity (Reply #5)

Thu Oct 24, 2019, 08:45 AM

15. Celerity I agree. And too many want to overlook that. nt

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Response to live love laugh (Original post)

Thu Oct 24, 2019, 04:30 AM

7. It wasn't just Facebook

It was, however, a war largely waged on the Internet. At one point even here RT was considered a site allowed as a "trusted" resource. We had many a person spouting their talking points and defending them, and we're a tiny corner of the internet. Just as food for thought.

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Response to live love laugh (Original post)

Thu Oct 24, 2019, 04:35 AM

8. Lot of things went wrong in 2016...

mostly its on the people. Can't have shitty turnout this time.

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Response to live love laugh (Original post)

Thu Oct 24, 2019, 02:43 PM

19. EVERYTHING is 'cause Susan Sarandon.

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