Do y'all really have any idea how devastating it is for LGBT Democrats to see Cardinal Dolan

[Zorra]

so honored by the Democratic Party, in allowing him to say the closing prayer at the Democratic National Convention?

Plainly speaking, Cardinal Dolan is a bigot, and a sexist. He is a homophobe, and an anti-choice misogynist. No amount of duplicitous doublespeak can ever obscure these facts made crystal clear by his own words.

He opposes equality for LGBT persons, equality for women, and is anti-choice.

He would be banned from DU in a split second if he were to post his previously stated homophobic and misogynistic opinions here. MIRT would run him out of here on a rail faster than you could say freeper, and the overwhelming majority of DUers would be celebrating and rejoicing over this just action by MIRT.

And it is not "just a prayer", like some are so insensitively and thoughtlessly proclaiming.

Honoring this outspoken anti-LGBT bigot (and anti-choice sexist) at the DNC is an implicit validation of the idea that there is no bigotry in opposing equal human rights for LGBT persons.

Personally, I am feeling seriously insulted, betrayed, and hurt beyond words, and I'm quite sure the majority of my Democratic LGBT sisters and brothers are as well. I have voted for every Democrat on my ballot in every election since I became of age to be able to legally vote. There have been more than a few issues that I have not agreed with my Dem legislators on, but when it came down to my support and vote, my loyalty to them, and the Democratic party has been unswerving, despite my disagreements.

I am writing this from my heart, and have tears in my eyes as I write it. I sincerely want everyone to have equal rights. It would never, in a trillion years, even cross my mind to advocate for Catholics, or members of any other religious group, to be legally denied equal human rights for no logical reason whatsoever. And truth be told, the astounding number of vicious, brutal atrocities committed against human beings by the Catholic Church and other religious groups would be a much more logical reason to deny someone their equal rights, than denying equal rights to LGBT persons simply because of who we are and who we love.

We, really, really don't deserve to be disrespected and insulted like this. The LGBT community has been overwhelmingly supportive of the Democratic Party for many years.

If Cardinal Dolan speaks out, directly, or indirectly, against equal rights for LGBT persons as he closes the Democratic National Convention, do you have any idea how our LGBT community, and even most of y'all, would feel at that moment?

*sigh*

[Cleita]

1. I am shaking my head about that.

It's so in your face. You'd think the DNC would be more sensitive.

[Zorra]

2. Thank you, Cleita.

[Doctor_J]

8. The DNC IS sensitive

to moderates and big-money donors. To the base - meh.

[_Liann_]

51. Obama NEEDS the Pennsylvania & Ohio white male catholic votes if he can get any.

Obama did more for LGBTs than they ever thought he would get done. Now relax for two more months while he secures a 2nd term by the skin of his teeth in a close election.

[Bjorn Against]

74. And exactly how many PA and OH voters have demanded this?

Seriously, how many people would only vote for Obama if Dolan speaks? Do you know of anyone who will only vote for Obama if a homophobe delivers the closing prayer? We are far more likely to lose LGBT votes from this than we are to gain Catholic votes, this is a stupid decision both morally and politically.

[cherokeeprogressive]

97. Pandering to bigots in order to get elected.

Fuck I need a shower every time I read that kind of bullshit.

[npk]

146. Yep. Pandering to bigots to get elected

is what Republicans do. Never thought I would see the day that Democrats would do the same.

[randome]

148. 'Pandering' implies promising or giving something for his cooperation.

He's saying a prayer. I doubt that Obama has promised to turn against gay rights or women's rights in return.

I doubt Dolan asked to be allowed to say a prayer. There is some thinking behind having him there, I would bet on it and I wish someone could find out what it is.

[obamanut2012]

214. .....

He needs the redneck racist vote in NC, too, so maybe he should have had a Klansman speak.

[Rectangle]

65. Couldn't we get the "Nuns on the bus" to do the prayer?? n/t

[Cleita]

70. That would have been better. n/t

[nanabugg]

83. Our tent is big enough for bigots and racists...it always has been...but we don't support them!!! n

[GodlessBiker]

3. If he does speak out against LGBT people or LGBT rights, he should be booed.

I don't think he will, as it will cause him to be invited in the future to nothing but the most radical right-wing events, but he might.

[Bluenorthwest]

44. Thus far, his vitriol gets him elevated in his organization and at the DNC....

We rewarded all his hate speech up until now, but somehow he knows that this time he'd best watch his words? Why?

[former9thward]

55. He is giving a prayer not a speech.

He is not going to say anything about social issues one way or the other.

[Zorra]

67. "he prays daily that President Obama will work to limit marriage to unions of one man and one woman.

Posted Aug 28, 2012 1:19pm EDT

The Catholic leader giving the closing prayer at next week's Democratic National Convention said earlier this year that he prays daily that President Obama will work to limit marriage to unions of one man and one woman.

[randome]

68. Skip it. They're on a roll.

[riderinthestorm]

177. What the hell does that mean?

[QC]

190. Telling the ungrateful queers to sit down and shut the fuck up is a cherished DU tradition.

For some people here, it never gets old.

Hell, it's probably one of the very best things about election season.

I don't really have time to discuss it right now, though--I need to get out and look for my pony.

[obamanut2012]

216. Who is "they"?

[obamanut2012]

215. He did that very thing in his prayer last night

He condemned LGBT and women's rights in his so-called prayer.

[AlbertCat]

75. If he does speak out against LGBT people or LGBT rights, he should be booed.

Instead he'll just invoke a magic spell to some invisible sky spirit and everyone will show respect for that for some unknown reason.

[obamanut2012]

213. His "prayer" DID speak out against LGBT and women's rights

It was very in your face. He didn't hide it at all.

[riderinthestorm]

4. You'd think Obama learned from the Rick Warren fiasco at the inauguration

and the backlash he suffered from the GLBT community.

These kinds of gestures matter. "Its just a prayer"! was said 4 years ago and was just as insulting then.

The Obama campaign is being very, very tone deaf on this (or worse).

So sorry Zorra

[RKP5637]

80. I would have thought that too. I was amazed when I heard earlier he had been selected. n/t

[DefenseLawyer]

5. I shake my head at the necessity of a Christian prayer

at a political event at all. But I realize that it means something to some, perhaps most, and it is probably good politics. It would probably be difficult to find a preacher who wasn't fucked up on at least some issues, but you would think that they could have tried to get someone a little less toxic.

[treestar]

18. Yeah exactly

Leave religion in the churches already. They are only doing it because if they don't, they will get slammed for how they had no Christians with probably suggestions they did allow Muslims (in fact already there is right wing whining about a Muslim event).

Then what the preacher here actually says will probably be quite milquetoast.

[matt819]

19. I'm with you on this one

There's no place for this at a secular, political event.

In fact, I'd like to see some action taken - removing tax exempt status - for churches engaging in political speech. And I'm not talking individual congregations, but the entire denomination.

[Poll_Blind]

210. Indeed! nt

PB

[4th law of robotics]

98. Without appeasing the gods we run the risk of a bad harvest

republican/democrat it doesn't matter who wins really so long as the Great Old Ones are appeased.

Bring forth the virgins!

[Warpy]

6. I'm a woman, so yes I do

Obama's choices in god botherers has been appalling.

There are plenty of open, liberal, and Christlike Christian preachers out there. Why does he keep choosing patriarchal assholes?

[laundry_queen]

112. +1 nt

[eridani]

179. Not to mention nuns!! n/t

[Doctor_J]

7. You need to face the fact that the prez

is a conservative Dem. Unions, teachers, public schools, progressive tax advocates, gun control advocates, and other liberal groups have all taken lumps over the last 4 years. While the Dolan thing is especially galling, ANYONE who still thinks he's the next coming of FDR or even JFK needs to give it up. He is what he is. He's far better than Willard, but he's not very liberal or progressive.

[SunSeeker]

21. Get a grip. Obama is not a conservadem. He advocates for marriage equality.

He is liberal. He is progressive. He is no Ben Nelson. The fact that the DNC for strategic reasons (i.e. to get the catholic vote) chose to let the leader of the Catholic Church in America do the closing prayer does not make Obama any less a liberal or a progressive. He got us healthcare reform and the right claimed he was a socialist. Now you claim he's a conservative because he's not blocking the Cardinal from doing the closing prayer. Both claims have no basis in fact.

All you're doing is needlessly depressing the vote of those on the left. Stop it. You are doing the work of Willard.

[dbackjon]

28. The DNC is doing the work of Willard

Are you married? Is your marriage recognized by the Federal Government?

[SunSeeker]

43. No the DNC is not, but you are doing the work of Willard. nt

[dbackjon]

59. ANSWER THE FUCKING QUESTION

Are you married? Is your marriage recognized by the Federal Government?

[demwing]

79. I'm not married, and you need to chill

because you are surrounded by friendly people here

[dbackjon]

135. I didn't ask you, and no, not everyone is friendly to equality here at DU

Plenty of people here still wish the gays would just shut the hell up about equality.

[demwing]

187. and you are an extremely negative person

I hope that works for you

[dbackjon]

191. When you spend your life being told you are a pervert

A deviant, etc. It tends to put you on defensive.

DU should be a safe place - where EVERYONE is 100% in favor of immediate and total equality, and should be unanimous in the scorn of anyone that is not.

But DU has many, many bigot, and others that can't be bothered with us gays and our petty issues.

[demwing]

203. You KNOW the Democratic Platform includes full support for Gay marriage

so take your "The DNC is doing Willard's work" bullshit somewhere else

[SunSeeker]

110. Direct your venom to Dolan, not me or the DNC. Sheesh.

What is your point? I support marriage equality. The DNC has marriage equality in it's platform--the first time in history for any major party. If you want the federal government to fully recognize marriage equality then we must re-elect President Obama, who supports marriage equality.

If Romney wins we will not get marriage equality. It's as simply as that. So if you are a single-issue voter on the issue of marriage equality, as it sounds like you are, then you should be doing everything you can to get Obama reelected, not depressing the vote by suggesting the DNC shares the same beliefs as Dolan.

Romney got almost no bump from the RNC, EXCEPT he got a 4-point bump from latinos. Latinos are overwhelmingly Catholic. Dolan was at the RNC, and the Republicans made it look like he endorsed them, suggesting it was a sin to vote Democratic. With Dolan doing the closing prayer at the DNC, the DNC neutralizes all that, and hopefully wins back those latino votes. We'll need every single one of them to make up for the white male vote--and all the votes you depress.

[Bluenorthwest]

119. Dolan is another bigot allowed to be there because straight Democrats accept that and expect

that they will not be held accountable. 'Chill'. Uh huh. What's that gotten us? No, this hate mongering will continue as long as the majority community accept and tolerate it. Did you call the WH and say you object? Of course not. Of course not. And that is, to be blunt, why the DNC keeps insulting gay people. When they do it, the rest of you accept it and try to berate gay people into accepting it as well.

[randome]

120. So...hate the haters? Isn't that counter-productive?

[dbackjon]

140. Yes, hate the haters

Should we just accept it and move on?


HELL NO - fight fire with fire.

[randome]

145. "Fight fire with fire" just ensures that everyone gets burned.

I see your point, I really do, but I would want to learn what kind of thinking went into this invitation before casting any stones.

[dbackjon]

147. What kind of thinking?

The kind that doesn't value LGBT voters.

[randome]

150. The Democratic platform says otherwise.

And unlike the Republican platform, ours is a serious one.

[dbackjon]

153. While I was happy with that, it seems that the DNC always finds a way to rain on our parade

I can not accept the Dolan decision as being good for anything.

I will continue to hold their feet to the fire, until equality for all is achieved. Silence accomplishes nothing.

[randome]

155. Can't argue with that.

And I don't blame anyone for making their anger known. I just wanted to point out an alternative view.

[SunSeeker]

130. Dems, straight and gay, reject a LOT of Catholic teachings, as the Dem platform states.

Your claim that "the DNC keeps insulting gay people" is not "blunt." It is simply wrong. The DNC, President Obama, and everyone here at DU, supports the LGBT community. The President ended DADT, and is pushing for marriage equality. THAT's what working together with the Catholic voters to get Obama elected has gotten us.

That does not mean we let the Repukes claim to have the endorsement of the head of the American Catholic Church, when he speaks for millions of Catholics. As I said above, we need the latino vote. We need the Catholic vote. His presence at the RNC needs to be neutralized. He is just doing a closing prayer. He will not be debating marriage equality.

I totally agree that Dolan is a bigot who protects pedophile priests. But, unfortunately, he's also head of the American Catholic Church. He speaks for the church, and we can't ban the Catholic Church. Please, direct your hatred at Dolan/the Catholic Church, not the DNC or Obama.

[dbackjon]

138. So you are ready to blame the gays if Obama loses?

Telling us just to shut the fuck up and accept whatever crumbs are handed to us?

And I know why you won't answer the question - you ARE Married, wiith a federally recognized marriage, so you have NO FUCKING clue what it is like to not be able to legally marry the person you love.

[hedgehog]

9. If it makes you feel any better, he will be reminding

liberal Catholics that he picked a fight with the President and is working to take down Obamacare. At the same time, right wingers will be upset that he isn't threatening the Democrats with fire and brimstone. So it's lose-lose for Dolan!


Catholics are more supportive of legal recognitions of same-sex relationships than members of any other Christian tradition and Americans overall. Nearly three-quarters of Catholics favor either allowing gay and lesbian people to marry (43%) or allowing them to form civil unions (31%). Only 22% of Catholics say there should be no legal recognition of a gay couple’s relationship.

When same-sex marriage is defined explicitly as a civil marriage, support is dramatically higher among Catholics. If marriage for gay couples is defined as a civil marriage “like you get at city hall,” Catholic support for allowing gay couples to marry increases by 28 points, from 43% to 71%. A similar pattern exists in the general population, but the Catholic increase is more pronounced.

Beyond the issue of same-sex marriage, Catholic support for rights for gays and lesbian people is strong and slightly higher than the general public. Nearly three-quarters (73%) of Catholics favor laws that would protect gay and lesbian people against discrimination in the workplace; 63% of Catholics favor allowing gay and lesbian people to serve openly in the military; and 6-in-10 (60%) Catholics favor allowing gay and lesbian couples to adopt children.

Compared to the general church-going public, Catholics are significantly less likely to hear about the issue of homosexuality from their clergy, but those who do are much more likely to hear negative messages. Only about 1-in-4 (27%) Catholics who attend church services regularly say their clergy speak about the issue of homosexuality, but nearly two-thirds (63%) of this group say the messages they hear are negative.

http://publicreligion.org/research/2011/03/for-catholics-open-attitudes-on-gay-issues/

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

25. You could say...

that rank-and-file Catholics are better than their so-called leaders. Maybe one of these days the hierarchy will change, but given the glacial movement of the past two thousand years, I'm really not very hopeful.

[abumbyanyothername]

30. The guy puts the former in my former Catholicism.

And my friend who is not yet former says about him, "I'm embarassed."

So if this guys is supposed to appeal to the Catholic dem vote, he isn't.

As for whether O has done enough for the liberal base . . . no, he hasn't. And we aren't going to shut up about it either. It's our right to demand sound, compassionate government policy. Whether we are talking about rMoney or Obama.

[GObamaGO]

192. I beg to differ with your claim that Catholics are more supportive than other Christian traditions

of same-sex marriage or civil unions.

Have you heard of the United Church of Christ?

ucc.org

[hedgehog]

195. You are correct; I think in polls the UCC gets lumped in with "Protestants" in general!

But - it does show the increasing disconnect between lay Catholics and the higher clergy.

[GObamaGO]

198. Bishops and above (and I would venture to say some priests)

are glaringly out of touch with the rank and file Catholics. I am surprised that the church hierarchy has not completely imploded.

[MineralMan]

10. Dolan is a miserable choice to give the benediction at

the Convention. A mistake.

[pnwmom]

17. It's not "the" benediction, it's one blessing of several from religious leaders.

And I think the Obama administration made a clever decision when they invited him, because the GOP was trying to pretend that his blessing at the RNC constituted an endorsement of their platform. Now he's been neutralized.

[abumbyanyothername]

33. Neutralizing Republican speakers

OK. I get it.

Maybe we should invite Paul Ryan to speak.

[Bluenorthwest]

47. Will they invite those guys who threw peanuts at the minorities as well?

To neutralize their endorsement of the RNC? If not, why not?

[Doctor_J]

57. Save it, bnw

the apologists cannot be reasoned with. Just like all of the president's appeasement to the wing nuts was "13 dimensional chess", this prominent place for a healthcare-hating gay basher is "neutralizing the RNC". They are too KoolAid-sloshed to be reached.

[Doctor_J]

61. Maybe they should invite Wayne LaPierre too

to neutralize the GOP's monopoly on gun nuts.

[Bjorn Against]

77. Let the Republicans have Dolan's endorsement, homophobes will vote for them anyways

I sure as hell don't want a homophobic asshole speaking at the convention, let the Republicans keep the racists, homophobes and misogynysts we don't want them. I don't want to be neutralized, I want to take a firm stand against bigots.

[Zorra]

96. Exactly. Honor a good, liberal, human rights advocating cleric by inviting her/him to pray.

Don't honor some homophobic sexist who desperately wants Romney to be elected.

This is so stupid, and insulting.

[marmar]

11. It is a really, really bad choice. Who's doing the vetting for these things?

nt

[leftynyc]

12. Sigh

Well, I guess he could just insult all the Catholics and uninvite him. Or perhaps the President could point to the nun who is taking on the right and speaking at the convention. Which religious leader would you have found unobjectionable?

[Pab Sungenis]

20. Don't want to insult the few Catholics who agree with him

But the faggots? Sure, piss them off all you want. What are they going to do, stay home?

That you find it acceptable to insult me, now twice by not only welcoming that bigot to our convention, but suggesting that my being offended doesn't matter really says a lot about our party today.

[kelly1mm]

29. He knows he can piss off the LGBT community and get away with it, get their votes and money. In

2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, and part of 2011 he was publicly against marriage equality. Even now he thinks it should be a state by state issue.

[Pab Sungenis]

31. Didn't he learn from 2010?

There was a 15% swing from the Democrats to the GOP among LGBT voters in 2010, which contributed to a lot of Blue Dogs and "moderates" being shown the door.

If they don't see a reason to come home then not only are we likely to lose but we will deserve to.

[kelly1mm]

37. Do you have a source for that stat? Not challenging you, I just never heard that before. nt

[Pab Sungenis]

100. It was fairly widely reported at the time.

I don't have a source at this point, but will look for one.

[Zorra]

42. So it's perfectly fine to insult the LGBT community, but not Catholics?

You may want to think about that.

Anyway, there are many liberal Christian leaders that would be infinitely preferable,and infinitely more deserving, of the honor of saying the closing prayer at the DNC.

Infinitely more deserving.

"The Colbert Report Chaplain"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Martin_%28Jesuit%29#The_Colbert_Report_Chaplain
On September 13, 2007, appeared on Comedy Central's The Colbert Report to discuss Mother Teresa's fifty-year long sense of abandonment by God which had much coverage in the media at the time. During the interview, Stephen Colbert jokingly asked Father Martin if Mother Teresa's "crisis of faith" had earned her, in his words, "a table for one...by the Lake of Fire." [8] Since then, Father Martin has appeared five more times on The Colbert Report, once to discuss Pope Benedict XVI's visit to the U.S. in April, 2008,[9] and again on February 23, 2009 to discuss how poverty (or, at least, reducing the importance one places on material goods) can bring one closer to God.[10] In his introduction of Father Martin on the February 23rd show, Stephen Colbert promoted Martin from "friend of the show" to "The Colbert Report chaplain." On March 18, 2010, Father Martin was invited to the program in the wake of Glenn Beck's suggesting that Catholics run away from priests who preach "social justice."[11] Father Martin noted that "social justice addresses the things that keep people poor" and "asks you why are these people poor." He added that "Christ asked us to work with the poor.... In the Gospel of Matthew he says that the way that we're going to be judged at the end of our lives is not what Church we prayed in or how we prayed but really...how we treated the poor." On August 10th, 2011, Father Martin appeared on The Colbert Report to discuss God's "approval rating" and to promote his book The Jesuit Guide to (Almost) Everything: A Spirituality for Real Life.[12] On November 9th, 2011, he appeared once again to promote his book concerning humor and religion: Between Heaven and Mirth.

CLERGY STAND UP FOR MARRIAGE EQUALITY EVENT

The national conversation about whether same gender loving couples should have the right to be married has blurred what should be two separate and distinct issues:
1) The right of faith communities to choose who may or may not be married by that community of faith, and
2) The right of all citizens to receive equal protection under the law.

For the church, marriage is a sacrament and a rite of the church. The government has no right to tell faith communities who can and cannot receive their rites and sacraments. But faith communities have no right to tell the state who may or may not receive equal protection under the law, based on any community’s religious beliefs. We believe the separation of church and state is good for the church and for the state.

For too long, churches have participated in the denial of civil rights to same gender loving citizens by our willingness to sign marriage licenses for heterosexual couples while gay and lesbian couples were denied this legal right. At First Congregational United Church of Christ we will no longer sign marriage licenses for anyone until we are able to sign marriage licenses for everyone.

We will no longer collaborate with the state of Oregon in a policy of discrimination that grants over 1,140 specific civil rights and benefits to heterosexual couples, while denying those same civil rights and benefits to gay and lesbian couples.

[Bluenorthwest]

49. That's so funny, upthread we are told that Catholics don't care for Dolan...that they all dig

contraception and gay people, it is just the hierarchy that is so messed up. Better pick one.

[leftynyc]

185. I don't have to pick anything

Not everyone feels the same way about any issue - are you unaware of that or do you just like arguing like a right winger where there is only one accepted position.

[fishwax]

52. none of the catholics I know would be offended, except those who are already voting for Romney

Much better would have been not inviting someone who espouses such bigotry in the first place.

[frylock]

117. as a straight person and former catholic i find your premise to be fucking insulting

[leftynyc]

184. Tough

I'd rather have Dolan say his stupid prayer than spending the next 2 months listening to the media claim the President insulted Catholics. That's reality.

[frylock]

204. fuck those thin-skinned shit lumps..

fuck. them. and fuck anyone that would enable them out of fear or political expediency.

[obamanut2012]

218. What Catholics? Kerry? Biden? Sister Simone?

Eva Longoria?

[leftynyc]

225. No - the middle aged ones in WI, MI, PA, VA, IA, NH

I'm beginning to think many on this board really do think those places are merely "fly-over country". And I thought NYers were snobs.

[LanternWaste]

228. In other words, the courage of your convictions are far outweighed by what Fox News would report

" That's reality..."

Or, put just as validly, the courage of your convictions are far outweighed by what Fox News would report.

[leftynyc]

236. Don't put words in my mouth

that's exactly what faux news does every single day to Democrats. The reality is that this issue simply isn't important enough to have to listen to crap about it for the next 60 days. What's important is making sure romney doesn't get near the oval office. My convictions are secondary to that when I am perfectly happy with around 85% of the platform.

[cbayer]

13. Even if he goes nowhere near the subject of GLBT civil rights, he is a terrible choice.

Is the DNC so tone deaf that they missed the outrage?

I am sorry for what you and others are experienced. I share your anger, but can only imagine your pain.

[just1voice]

14. We let torturers walk freely among us and let criminal banks run everything

It's no surprise that a bigoted, fairy tale believer is among those whom perpetuate this era of corruption. So yes, I can fully understand how outrageous it is.

[rbrnmw]

15. It makes me sick

it's a huge step backward

I am so sorry

[pnwmom]

16. I can't stand Dolan but I'm glad he's going to be there doing his little blessing.

It's taken all the Catholic wind out of the GOP's sails, now that Dolan has been neutralized. The GOP can no longer claim that his appearance at their convention constituted an endorsement.

He's just one of many leaders of various denominations giving their little blessings, as they have in conventions past.

[SunSeeker]

22. +10000000000000000000000000000000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

23. It still sucks....

I get why they're doing it, but I really hope that they never do something like this again.

Even if you took one of the more liberal denominations, like Unitarian Universalist, it's still just not right to mix politics and religion like this. And as much as I respect the million of decent human beings who happen to be Catholic, having Dolan at the podium gives the appearance that we're condoning a smorgasbord of odious ideas.

[Doctor_J]

60. Then why not invite one of the hundreds of liberal catholics?

instead of one who hates health care and gays?

Your argument is ridiculous

[Zorra]

63. So, you don't care if the LGBT community is hurt, we are not worthy human beings anyway, in your

estimation, so it is perfectly acceptable, even a good thing, to insult and disrespect us in service of your political agenda, because we are just lowly faggot scum.


Nice.

Four researchers who culled through 50 years of research literature about the psychology of conservatism report that at the core of political conservatism is the resistance to change and a tolerance for inequality

[pnwmom]

114. This action neutered Dolan.

He's stuck being just as nice to the Dems at our convention as he was to the Rethugs at theirs.

[obamanut2012]

219. Except he wasn;t, he spewed anti gaya nd women rhetoric

[pnwmom]

235. I didn't listen to him drone on. Do you have a link to the objectionable quotes?

[DURHAM D]

237. Here is a link to a good summary and a link is provided -

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021293447#post106

[pnwmom]

240. Thank you! When I hear this part:

"empower us with your grace so that we might resist the temptation to replace the moral law with idols of our own making"

I hear him saying that we should resist the temptation to replace the moral law with the worship of MONEY.



(I agree that he does make some veiled comments that are appear to be related to abortion and gay marriage.)

[Chorophyll]

71. They could have found a more progressive Catholic.

Really. They are out there.

[sabrina 1]

82. A better way to take the wind out of their sails, would have been to refuse to join

the party of Bigotry and instead, invite one of the many Catholics who better represent the majority of Catholics on the issue of Gay Rights today.

Here is a partial list of the ever-growing gay-friendly Catholic parishes and faith communities.

http://newwaysministry.org/GFP.html

There are also many Catholic Nuns and Priests who work with the LGBT community every day and who are actually far better representatives of the Catholic faith, than Dolan could ever hope to be.

What is the purpose of inviting someone who, supposedly, is in no way representative of the Democratic Party? Do they think they will get votes by having him there? What votes, the minority of Catholics who oppose equal rights for the LGBT community are never, ever going to vote for a Democrat.

By giving someone who opposes everything this party claims to be about, all they are doing is giving in the bullies, and once again turning their backs on the bullied.

[SomethingFishy]

85. Yeah and there wasn't one other Catholic they could have used...

This is insulting to an entire community. Whether or not it is to you is not the issue.

I for one think this is a bad time to be alienating voters.

[bigwillq]

92. Couldn't they have found someone other than a bigot???????

to your post.

[randome]

94. There are very few non-bigots in the ultra-religious camp.

[bigwillq]

95. IMO, they could've found a better choice (nt)

[sabrina 1]

137. There are plenty of non-bigots who are Catholics and who better represent the majority

of Catholics today. And what is having him there supposed to accomplish? What is the strategy behind this? Those Catholics who support his views will never vote for a Democrat no matter how many speeches or prayers he gives at a Dem Convention. So why did they invite him?

[randome]

142. Someone needs to find out before making assumptions.

He is our enemy. What better place to have him than to invite him to give a prayer in what he thinks is a den of sin?

It makes him look toothless and perhaps foolish.

That's my take on it, anyways. I don't presume to know what kind of thinking went into this but I doubt it happened without a LOT of discussion.

[sabrina 1]

151. No, it makes it look like Democrats are afraid to stand up for their own principles.

Afraid to have a speaker who supports equality for all human beings. To his followers this is a huge victory. He has now been given a platform by both major political parties.

This, for them, shows that the 'sinners' on the Left have been shamed into allowing him to have a place at their Convention. And best of all, to show those Gays that he is so powerful that even their own party puts him ahead of their interests, which in their view, is how it ought to be.

Clearly you do not know how fundamentalists think. If we could only get the Repubs to allow a Liberal Pastor to say the prayer at their Convention. But that will never happen, because they would never give us such a high profile platform because they know what the message would be.

The message is, 'Dems are open to your views now'. And they are happy about that. But those whose rights he would deny don't matter, insulting them is just fine apparently.

[randome]

154. The number of speakers at the DNC who DO believe in equal rights far outnumber Dolan.

The Democratic Platform is something to believe in, unlike the Republican Platform that even Romney -according to his wife- will not necessarily follow.

We are different from Republicans so I don't see why we should try to emulate them.

We are better.

[riderinthestorm]

178. Clearly you are just one of those who hate causing waves "its just a prayer"!!

It doesn't matter right? Because the number of speakers who outnumber Dolan makes him "insignificant"?

Dolan needs to be condemned outright.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

108. Yeah, Bishop Gene Robinson comes to mind.

Stunts like this are why I no longer donate to the DNC.

[bigwillq]

127. They will not get a dime from me

Neither will Obama.

Or any other politician.

They seem to be doing just fine without my dimes.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

166. I still donate to individual candidates...

but haven't been too impressed with the DNC since Dean's departure.

[bigwillq]

170. That's fine with me.

It's your money. I have no right to tell you what to do with it.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

107. Any one of the Nuns on the Bus would have been...

a better choice to give a "little" blessing. Marriage Equality is part of the Democratic platform -- Dolan being there is hypocritical.

[pnwmom]

115. Sr. Simone Campbell has a much larger role, as an actual speaker.

I'd rather she do that than give a little blessing.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

165. Good. Still, Dolan should not be anywhere near the DNC...

giving a "little" blessing. Find someone who actually believes in the Democratic Party platform.

[pnwmom]

167. Dolan believes in social welfare , which is part of the platform. n/t

[WorseBeforeBetter]

168. Then find a religious figure who believes in social welfare, LGBT equality,

AND equality for women. We're a nation of over 308,000,000 -- surely it's not THAT difficult.

[pnwmom]

171. There are several leaders giving blessings, and I'm sure they include

people who would meet your specs.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

173. My specs are the Democratic Party's specs,

but keep polishing that turd.

[Rex]

24. I have to admit I do not and never will.

I can only feel sympathy for the LGBT community; the choice of letting a known bigot onstage to tell everyone who to hate makes me sick to my stomach.


We are better then this.

[wryter2000]

26. They have to stop doing this crap

There are plenty of pro-justice clergy people. They could have the Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church, Katharine Jefferts-Schori. Why do they keep giving credibility to the bigots?

[eridani]

180. She would be great

She's married to one of my second cousins--biggest success story on my mother's side of the family.

[wryter2000]

206. No kidding?

Wow. I would love to meet her. I so wish she'd visit us in Oakland.

[eridani]

211. I'm going to have to go about re-establishing those social connections--

--that my mother always took care of before she died.

[HockeyMom]

27. As a former catholic (if I even CAN be), of course

I understand. I also understand Dolan's, and Rome's, anti-woman stance. If they keep their religion to themselves, I don't care. However, when they try to IMPOSE their religion on CIVIL America, I will fight them, especially as an EX-CATHOLIC. Keep your religion to yourselves, and leave everybody else ALONE. They are treading on very dangerous grounds trying to LEGISLATE THEIR "morality".

[Aerows]

32. It bugs the hell out of me

But at least Obama is in support of us getting married. I know we have to accept people with horrible messages sometimes, and it doesn't get any easier, but at least we know who is in our corner and who would be just as glad to see us purged from the earth - it isn't Democrats.

[Chorophyll]

34. I totally get it.

I can't understand why they chose him. There are so many progressive clergy people out there. (Seriously, there are.)

[unionthug]

35. All of us are with you on this Zorra

You properly state, "Personally, I am feeling seriously insulted, betrayed, and hurt beyond words, and I'm quite sure the majority of my Democratic LGBT sisters and brothers are as well."

As are all of your allies.

[Zorra]

66. Thanks, unionthug, and welcome to DU!

[_Liann_]

36. Dolan member of 3 organized crime sex rape-gangs with 180 known felony offender close associates

There aren't even three NAMBLA chapters who have a total combined 180 pedophile members, but Dolan belongs to three organized crime gangs with at least 180 known sex offenders.

Timothy M. Dolan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_M._Dolan

Dolan is the tenth and current Archbishop of New York.

On June 19, 2001, Dolan was appointed Auxiliary Bishop of St. Louis

On June 25, 2002, Dolan was named the tenth Archbishop of Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

http://www.bishop-accountability.org/
Database of Publicly Accused Priests in the United States http://bishop-accountability.org/member/index.jsp

http://bishop-accountability.org/priestdb/PriestDBbydiocese.html

http://bishop-accountability.org/priestdb/PriestDBbydiocese.html#NY
Viewed by Diocese: New York, NY
Total Individuals: 63

http://bishop-accountability.org/priestdb/PriestDBbydiocese.html#MO
Viewed by Diocese: St. Louis, MO
Total Individuals: 52

http://bishop-accountability.org/priestdb/PriestDBbydiocese.html#WI
Viewed by Diocese: Milwaukee, WI
Total Individuals: 65

63 + 52 + 65 = 180 Sex offender members of these organized crime sex rape-gangs.

[_Liann_]

38. He's also complaining about Obama's "war on Religion" and suing Obamacare over birth control.

[randome]

69. And he loses on all of those. And everyone knows it.

[Raster]

194. Is NOM’s Brian Brown Standing With Cardinal Dolan Against Church Child Rape Victims?

http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/is-noms-brian-brown-standing-with-cardinal-dolan-against-church-child-rape-victims/legislation/2012/08/29/47448

by Scott Rose on August 29, 2012

Among the many motives that the Catholic Church of Rome has for scapegoating LGBTers worldwide is that of attempting to distract world attention from the Church’s seemingly endless child rape scandals.

In the United States, nobody fights harder than the Catholic Church against proposed laws to lift the statutes of limitations for prosecution of child rape. And the Republican Party is the Church’s political ally in its war against such proposed legislation.


New York State Senator Thomas Duane, a Democrat, proposed Senate Bill S3333. The proposed legislation seeks to extend “the statute of limitations in criminal and civil actions for certain sex offenses committed against a child less than eighteen years of age.”

A Duane staffer told this reporter: “If you think Cardinal Dolan fights hard against marriage for same-sex couples, you should know that that is nothing, compared to how fiercely Dolan fights against laws designed better to hold child rapists accountable for their crimes.” The staffer added that Republican state legislators — not Democrats — lead the charge against the proposed legislation.

<snip>
-----------------
above bold emphasis mine.

Posted previously in another thread.

[_Liann_]

205. GOP is the RAPE-Party: RepublicansForRape.org

Below is the list of thirty legislators who were brave enough to stand up in defense of rape and vote against Senator Al Franken's anti-rape amendment to the 2010 Defense Appropriations bill.
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=111&session=1&vote=00308

Jeff Sessions (R-AL)

Richard Shelby (R-AL)

Jon Kyl (R-AZ)

John McCain (R-AZ)

Saxby Chambliss (R-GA)

Johnny Isakson (R-GA)

Mike Crapo (R-ID)

James Risch (R-ID)

Sam Brownback (R-KS)

Pat Roberts (R-KS)

Jim Bunning (R-KY)

Mitch McConnell (R-KY)

David Vitter (R-LA)

Thad Cochran (R-MS)

Roger Wicker (R-MS)

Kit Bond (R-MO)

Mike Johanns (R-NE)

John Ensign (R-NV)

Judd Gregg (R-NH)

Richard Burr (R-NC)

Tom Coburn (R-OK)

Jim Inhofe (R-OK)

Jim DeMint (R-SC)

Lindsey Graham (R-SC)

John Thune (R-SD)

Lamar Alexander (R-TN)

Bob Corker (R-TN)

John Cornyn (R-TX)

John Barrasso (R-WY)

Mike Enzi (R-WY)

[okieinpain]

39. CNN article

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/03/first-on-cnn-whos-delivering-prayers-at-the-dnc/

[citizen blues]

40. WTF?!?!? Sick, sick, sick, sick!!!!!

Let's hear what he has to say about all those damn pedophiles working for him! Just caught a another one in my area. A Catholic priest in his underwear chasing a 12 year old boy down the street at midnight after the kid escaped from being molested. This boy had been allowed to spend the night at the priest's house.

I don't care how sweet, nice, or holy your parish priest seems; here's the 11th commandment for Catholic parents:

THOU SHALT NOT EVER, EVER, EVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES LEAVE YOUR CHILD WITH A PRIEST UNSUPERVISED!!!!!!

You can be as Catholic as you want, but for your kid's sake and safety:
GET A FUCKING CLUE!!!!!

[zeemike]

41. Aw yes let's find as many ways as possible to divide us.

It works so well for the GOP.
Piss off the gay people because someone they don't like spreads some little nothing at the convention....make it about religion so that the religious people will feel properly chastened for their believing in fairy tales...
...this can kill two birds with one stone...gays/strait and religious/atheist...perhaps the next one is men/woman...we could complain about a speaker that does not support the equal rights amendment and say we should ban him or the women will be mad.
People are easily manipulated like that....and frankly I am tired of it.

[leftstreet]

45. Politicians are good at it. Can't let us discuss our common interests

Like jobs, wages, healthcare, housing, energy, etc

[Doctor_J]

58. It's the folks who put the gay-bashing priest on the bill that are dividing us

not those who mention it.

[zeemike]

118. You mean the Catholic democrats?...like Biden?

Who probably did it to counter the right wing attempt to divide us with the catholic thing?....well we cant let that happen.

[Doctor_J]

123. Why choose one who is outspokenly anti-gay and anti-poor?

I thought Obama and Biden are proud of ACA. So are lots of Catholic clergy. And many of them are not anti-gay bigots. But they chose one who has spoken hatefully about gays and ACA. Do you really think that some undecided's are going to vote for Obama because he put a gay-hating priest in the convention??? It is beyond me how you KoolAid drinkers can cheer for this. when gays don't show up on November 4, remember this, and blame the people who chose this particular catholic to speak.

[zeemike]

169. Well then go ahead don;t show up...that will show them.

then you can get one 10 times worse and really have something to complain about.
What would you say if some Catholics said the same thing...threatened not to show up unless the man could say his prayer?....well good riddance to them?....we only want those who pass the purity test in our party.

You don't see the GOP do that shit....they may not agree with the radicals in their party but they don't put them down ether and they don't try to exclude anyone who might even think like that....and in November they all go out and vote....none of them feel so hurt by some thing the party did that they will stay home with an ice pack on their bobo to show their displeasure with some innocent....that is how they win and we lose.

And yes I am a kool aid drinker and a party stinker
I cheer on the evil ones and fail to show my outrage at the least offence and probably hate puppies.....cause I don't agree with your assessment and trip all over myself to show how gay friendly I am by agreeing with you.

[Zorra]

88. Oh, bullshit. Trivializing this by implying that I posted this to divide Democrats is juvenile.

We have every right to be upset that an enemy of equal human rights is being honored by being invited to speak at our Democratic National Convention.

But it's just "teh lowly gays" being shit on, so what's the fuss, right?

It's not you being insulted, it doesn't affect you, so you totally can't understand why anyone would genuinely be upset about this.

Wrong is wrong, and this is totally fucking wrong, and if you don't get it, I really feel sorry for you.

[zeemike]

113. No I am sure you did not post it for that reason.

But I only am looking at the results.
And it is trivial...the man said a prayer as I understand it...I don't have TV so I don't know....and you think it is a good idea to piss and moan about it and want to ban all such things because they are so despicable....so horrible.
It is a response way out of line with it's importance....but you want to make it into a loyalty test.
Well believe it or not there are Catholic dems and dems that have faith and you don't care if they are offended...it serves them right because they are bigots too....kiss them good by....we don't need your kind in our party.
Fuck that shit...it is whey we lose because we just must obsess over the little things and try to make this party not just gay friendly but purged of all other thought on the subject.

Yes wrong is wrong...and it is wrong to try to censure people and shut them up with intimidation....and that wrong will never make a right.

[Bluenorthwest]

129. Do you think we should also have various 'thoughts on the subject

of racial equality in our Party? I mean, it's just 'thoughts on the subject'. Is that your concept? Should we invite some Holocaust deniers as well? They have different thoughts on a subject from past history, should we shut them up with intimidation?
How much hate speech would you be comfortable with? Calls for death to minorities? Is that just 'other thoughts on the subject' as well? If opposing our basic human rights is 'other thoughts' then perhaps so is genocide. Would you say pro genocide folks just have 'other thoughts on gays'? How far does this go? It's your concept, you set the metrics.

[Zorra]

159. Yes. The hypocrisy of this rampant double standard is absolutely maddening. Some individuals

cannot seem to get it through the culturally induced homophobia that is cemented into their brains that LGBT persons really, really are equal human beings 100% as deserving of equal human rights as any straight person is.

"Well, so what if you don't have equal rights? You're gay, for god's sake! What do you expect? And tell me, how can you be so selfish as to want equal human rights for yourself when there are starving mongooses in Outer Mongolia1!!!1 So many things take priority over your selfish insistence that you be treated like a human being, like those of us who already have our equal rights are treated! Just who do you think you are, anyway? So just STFU, and get to the back of the bus where you belong."

It's just insane. Literally. Totally eyond reason.

[zeemike]

163. What basic human rights did that bishop deny you?

What basic human rights did he say he wanted to deny you?
You do know that Senator Byrd of Virginia was a member of the KKK don't you?....did MLK and the civil rights movement raise hell if Byrd tried to speak at a convention?....How about Lester Maddox?.
Well no they did not...and for good reason....and that reason you don't seem to comprehend...keep your eyes on the prize is what states it.

Right now we are engaged in probably the most important elections of our lifetime...and if we lose it will be fascism 2.0....but don't worry you will get to marry...they don't give a shit about that...they want power then they can deal with you like they like and you can't say shit....
And right in the middle of this you want to whine about some prayer said by some bishop that said something you did not like....can you see how I am not sympathetic?....did you learn nothing from the chicken sandwich?

[leftstreet]

46. It should be devasting for ANY Democrat to see it

Not just LGBTs

DURec

[MotherPetrie]

48. I agree -- I HATE it. Dolan is a vile POS, period. The only thing Dems should do with him is

Denounce his foul ass.

[jobycom]

50. Shameful that we let any enemy of human rights speak at the convention.

This pig is thug. He not only uses every opportunity to denounce a woman's right to choose abortion and birth control, but he denounces gay marriage and anything else to do with LGBT rights. He has even supported the Church's view that a gay man can't be a priest even if celibate if he has "deep-seated homosexual tendencies" or even supports "the gay culture." Would we let Pat Robertson pray? Would we let the KKK make an appearance if they promised to help the party? The answer to both is so obvious it doesn't need stating. So what does that say about the real opinion of LGBT in the Democratic Party?

Shame on the Dems and anyone rationalizing this. This man's hatred should not be legitimized by the Democrats. It should be denounced. If they feel some need for prayers and the like, they could legitimize the thousands of clergy who do support human rights. Instead, the Dems are snubbing them in favor of this bigot.

And those saying this could be good strategically, what happens when he works his views on abortion and marriage into his prayer, and that overshadows everything else the convention accomplishes. We all laughed when Clint Eastwood helped us more than the Republicans, and some even joked that he was a secret operative. This guy really might be. Even if not, the symbolism is horrible enough to harm the party and its message.

[LadyHawkAZ]

53. Yes, I have the same idea

he hates us. but frankly, there is no one from the RCC hierarchy that would have grated on me any less.

[fishwax]

54. I hear you, Zorra. It's disgraceful.

[Renew Deal]

56. Dolan will be at the convention?

That's ridiculous.

[Poll_Blind]

62. K&R. nt

PB

[Bluenorthwest]

64. Another liar, another ignorant hate monger.

Of course Dolan will speak hate, that's what he does for a living. Sadly, Steven Colbert is promoting Dolan with a tour the two are doing, Colbert frames Dolan as a good, nice guy, very witty and a good friend to Steve and of course, Steven's millions and his wife and all that.
No longer watching Colbert, Steve is a hypocrite who can kiss my ass.

[SomethingFishy]

81. Yeah and Colbert loves O'Reilly too

He says it all the time, even calls him Poppa Bear.

You do fucking realize what Colbert does right?

[Bluenorthwest]

109. Yes, I do 'fucking realize'. Are you aware of Steve's off camera doings this month? Of course not.

'Timothy Cardinal Dolan, the archbishop of New York, will join Stephen Colbert, the popular host of Comedy Central’s The Colbert Report, for a conversation about humor, faith, joy, and the spiritual life, at Fordham University in the Bronx on Sept. 14.

“The Cardinal and Colbert: Humor, Joy, and the Spiritual Life,” will be moderated by James Martin, S.J., a Jesuit priest and author of Between Heaven and Mirth. The multimedia discussion promises to be sincere, substantive, and fun."

Steve doing 'fun time with the Bigot'. Just a crass fact. If this goes well, it will be a road show. Big money for Steven and Dolan. That's the plan.
http://www.fordham.edu/Campus_Resources/eNewsroom/topstories_2489.asp

[Raster]

196. I thought surely this was Onionesque, but nooooooooo.....

Maybe Colbert and Dolan will do a festive little skit about PREDATOR PEDOPHILE PRIESTS. I bet that one will really bring in the laughs.

[Bluenorthwest]

161. I note your silence when faced with what Stevie does for a buck on the side....

I like that courage in a snark merchant...

[WeRQ4U]

72. Just like Donnie McClurkin singing at Obama campaign stops in 2008....

McClurkin is a gospel singer who performed at the 2004 RNC and is a "former gay" man who says prayer helped convert him and believes that prayer can convert others like him.

But instead of turning to religious and/or African American leaders who WEREN'T ridiculously bigoted, Obama used him to appeal to black conservatives/evangelicals in the Carolinas, allthewhile saying he "disagreed" with his HORRID LGBT stance.

I like Obama. I like what he's done so far. But his lack of support for the LGBT community has always been my biggest gripe with him and it continues to disappoint.

[leftyohiolib]

73. and a slap in the face to unions it's being held in a right to work state in a non-union hotel

im wondering if this is the same zorra i sometimes hear on the norman goldman show.

[Bucky]

76. self d'lete

.

[ZombieHorde]

78. I agree with everything you said. Thanks for saying what many of us have been thinking. nt

[Zen Democrat]

84. Dolan did the benediction at the RNC and there was a big flap about taking sides.

So now he's going to Charlotte to even the score.

Who needs him, really? He's a woman-hating jerk.

[awoke_in_2003]

86. Zorra, I am a straight man...

so I do not know fully how this affects the gay community, but I do have an idea. This was as stupid and insensitive as having Rick Warren at the inauguration. If they have a prayer (which I would argue that they need to keep that crap in church) surely they can find someone who isn't such a woman hater and homophobic asshole.

[randome]

87. Dolan and his ilk are LOSING. Big time.

Where do we want him to be when Reality sets in? Do we want him plotting against Democrats until the end of Eternity?

Or do we want to remember he can put aside the hatred and join the winning side?

[Bjorn Against]

99. We don't want him on our side, bigots do not belong anywhere near the Democratic Party

Would it also make you happy if we invited David Duke to speak in the hopes that one day he might change his mind and start loving black people?

[randome]

101. I doubt Obama would do this just to piss off people.

I think he's looking to the long term. It's a prayer, nothing else. Would you stop this man from praying in church because you disagreed with him on something?

Granted, the 'disagreement' is pretty big. And the man himself is contemptible. But it helps to show that we will make changes in the world DESPITE these bigots.

That's the best outlook I can see on it. Maybe it's spin but I don't believe in ensuring your enemy remains your enemy for all time.

[Bjorn Against]

102. I can't stop him from praying in church but I sure as hell ain't going to attend his church

Choosing not to invite someone to speak is nothing remotely like "ensuring your enemy remains your enemy for all time". Don't try and say it is "just a prayer", many people could deliver a prayer there is absolutely no reason that they had to choose a hate group leader to deliver that prayer and make no mistake about it Dolan's church IS a hate group.

[randome]

103. I can't argue with your position. I see it all too clearly.

But the Obama campaign is being run VERY smartly. I think there is some thought going into having Dolan there.

I don't know what it is and I loathe using the words 'trust' or 'faith' as applied to politicians. And I sure as hell wish someone at the DNC would explain why Dolan is there.

[Bjorn Against]

105. The Obama campaign is usually very smart, but they do screw up sometimes

I am sure they are doing it to show they are "reaching out to people from all walks of life", on paper that sounds like an effective strategy but when you alienate your own people it ends up causing more harm than good.

[bigwillq]

89. K and R

Good post.



I didn't know this until just know (about him saying closing prayer)

Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

[stevenleser]

90. I am extremely upset that this was done.

This is politics at its worst and I am ashamed.

[Liberal_in_LA]

91. k&r

[Alduin]

93. It does hurt.

I don't understand why they would allow a homophobe do the closing prayer.

And why the hell do they need to do a closing prayer?

[progressoid]

104. Rec!

[nichomachus]

106. Why not ask someone from the KKK to give the benediction?

After all, it's only a two-minute prayer. Who could object?

[madrchsod]

111. there was`t a liberal catholic priest?

oh shit i forgot...those guys believe politics and religion does`t mix......

[Warren DeMontague]

116. And Durbin was on FOX saying "Democrats are not godless!"

Well, uh, some of us ARE, TYVM.

And sick of the implication that we are somehow deficient (Like, morally, as some even get away with saying on this very board) becuse of it.

I understand what all these placating moves are for, but I find them personally offensive. I agree with your OP.

[progressivebydesign]

121. I'm always relieved when I remember that DU is not real life.

Otherwise I'd be worried about people that are so entrenched in their own special interests, that they're willing to throw the poor, the middle, class, the troops, the environment, the animals, the disabled, the children, the teachers, the firefighters, and the elderly, under the bus, because they didn't get their way on some ideology that they think should be part of a Party of millions of people of all faiths and backgrounds.

The biggest failing of the Democratic Party has ALWAYS been the refusal of some individuals to recognize the struggle of everyone.. not just their own. Yes, by all means you and your friends shouldn't vote. Because I'm quite certain that Romney will be really great for LBGT issues. Of all the things that have been accomplished in the past -4 years in that regard, you blow a gasket of who gives a prayer. Unreal...

[sabrina 1]

132. The greatest strength of the Democratic Party has been its willingness to pay attention

to the struggles of those whose rights have been denied them. That is WHY most of us are Democrats.

Had the Democratic Party not paid attention to the lack of Civil Rights for African Americans, because it really wasn't all that popular or politically expedient to do so at the time, we would still be living in the '50s and African Americans would be getting this lecture about being selfish today.

I'm sure we can talk about the lack of rights for Gays while at the same time focus on all the other important issues. You seem to be saying that if we talk about Civil Rights right now, that means we can't focus on anything else.

No one ever got their rights by not fighting for them. Can you explain to us when exactly these issues should be discussed because over the past nearly four years here on DU all we've heard is 'NOT NOW'.

I really can't think of a bad time to discuss inequality.

[Zorra]

139. People just like you told Martin Luther King and the black community to STFU back in the 50's

and 60's, just like you are telling the LGBT community and our allies STFU right now.

Most progressives today are very, very glad that black folks refused to be silenced by bigots and racists.

"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter."
Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

[sabrina 1]

158. You said it better than I did, but that is exactly what is happening. Talk about being on

wrong side of history. The lack of civil rights for all people has been seriously delayed by those who insist on rationalizing every step backwards, which is what this is. History wouldn't have been very different if they weren't always there, trying to explain away why bigotry should be tolerated, all in a good cause. They are like road-blocks to progress. It's bad enough we always have to deal with the shameless bigots on the right, who don't even try to hide it, but we always have those on our side who are no less a deterrent to getting equality for all human beings.

We will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends MLK

I guess he had to deal with the same 'why don't be quiet right now, there's an election coming up and you are very, very inconvenient at the moment' from his 'friends' also.

[Skittles]

182. YOU KNOW IT, ZORRA

man the occasional ignorance I see on DU just BURNS

[Starry Messenger]

202. Gay people are a part of all those other groups you list.

Interesting that you would isolate them out as other and "special interest".

[treestar]

222. +1

I'd say focus on the positive. What "hurt" can this guy do? Progress has been made.

[JohnnyLib2]

122. Dump the chump.

I wish someone had said that at the outset of Convention planning.

[Zorra]

124. Thank you all so very much your sincere empathy and support.

I know that, as progressives, you desire, and struggle for, what is right, and for the equality of all people.

I feel I can accurately say that entire progressive LGBT community is well aware that you all, as our allies in our struggle for equal rights, are insulted and upset by this really thoughtless mistake as well. We greatly appreciate the understanding and empathy that you demonstrate towards the LGBT community.

Hopefully, we can prevent stupid, thoughtless things like this from occurring in the future by demanding that our party leaders stop this type of disrespectful behavior, so that none of us have to experience anything like this ever again.

Largely due to your support of our long struggle for equal rights, there is a wonderful new addition to our official 2012 Democratic Party Platform:

Freedom to Marry. We support the right of all families to have equal respect, responsibilities, and protections under the law. We support marriage equality and support the movement to secure equal treatment under law for same-sex couples. We also support the freedom of churches and religious entities to decide how to administer marriage as a religious sacrament without government interference.

We oppose discriminatory federal and state constitutional amendments and other attempts to deny equal protection of the laws to committed same-sex couples who seek the same respect and responsibilities as other married couples. We support the full repeal of the so-called Defense of Marriage Act and the passage of the Respect for Marriage Act.

We could not have gotten here without you.

Again, thank you all, from the bottom of my heart. The 2012 Dem Party Platform is proof that you have really made a huge difference, and you make the world a better place for for everyone, every day.

[randome]

126. It might do some good to find out why this decision was made in the first place.

With all the smart people in the Obama campaign, it's hard to believe that no one objected vociferously to this.

[HockeyMom]

125. As a former NY catholic,

you cannot imagine how this angers me. Good thing I didn't win the trip to the convention. It would have taken every ounce of my strength to not throw something at Dolan. At the very least, I would have walked out during his "PRAYER"

[still_one]

128. The Democratic party has made it very clear by their latform. Dolan is irrelevent

[randome]

131. A passive-aggressive coup!

Bring your enemy inside the gate to show how powerless he is.

[still_one]

144. didn't think of it that way but that is brillant

[Iggo]

133. A few of us do.

[ThatsMyBarack]

134. Square. Peg. Round. Hole.

[RedCappedBandit]

136. Why the hell does a political event require a "closing prayer" anyway?

[Omaha Steve]

141. Somebody really screwed up

K&R!

[sarcasmo]

143. Kick!

[KoKo]

149. I think they had a Greek Orthodox Priest do the Invocation....

and...Zorra you are saying that Cardinal Dolan will do the "Closing Prayer?"

What's with this....

I don't know, anymore. Scratching Head in consternation.......It's all very bizarre.

perhaps Obama is trying to make amends for his Inauguration?

Who knows....

[southernyankeebelle]

152. It's very complicated. I don't like Dolan myself but remember gays aren't the only people Obama

has to reach out to. Just complicated.

[librarylu]

156. Jared's speaking now

Listen to him. Maybe Dolan will.

[xchrom]

157. Every one on DU would be horrified if a KKK type

Preacher was giving any prayer at any time during the convention. Invited & official.

You wouldn't hear the phony 'it's just a prayer' or 'we're/they're not the enemies' or Obama (my personal fav) needs the racist vote
In PA.

Shrug - DU is a pretty LGBTIQ bigoted place.

& there is little to be done for it.

[Odin2005]

160. It is shameless pandering to mythical "Moderate Independents".

It is disgraceful.

[backscatter712]

162. Definitely disappointing.

If it were up to me, I wouldn't give anti-GLBT* preachers the time of day, and I wouldn't give them the stage at any Democratic events.

[ThatsMyBarack]

164. Let's get someone else!

We don't need this HATRED shit!

[bullwinkle428]

172. It's a pathetic choice, Zorra. It's great to see so many DUers stepping up and echoing

that sentiment.

As for the apologists for this stunt, they look utterly ridiculous in their attempts to rationalize. If that earned me a place on some more ignore lists, so be it!

[SpartanDem]

174. You really think the majority of LGBT Dems care about this?

I have more than a dozen close LGBT friends some very politically active, a few of which are coworkers and we discuss politics pretty much daily. Others are less politically active, but all are Democratic voters. I have haven't had a single one bring up the Dolan thing, not in actual conversation or Facebook post, nothing. The last few days of conservation have revolved around the idiocy at the RNC convention I know these results aren't scientific and other mileage may vary. You're certainly entitled to your feelings on this matter, but to extrapolate it to broader LGBT community that it is also feeling "betrayed" is stretching it at best.

[JoeyT]

175. I don't know...

I think it's brilliant. Many people above have pointed out that it's an attempt to pull Catholic voters away from the GOP, and they're absolutely correct.

Not only do I think it's a brilliant decision, I think we need to take it further. We should have invited the Grand Dragon or Wizard or whatever of the Klu Klux Klan to deliver a speech and tried to pull the racists away from the GOP as well. As long as they didn't use racial slurs during their speech, there shouldn't have been any problem with it.

Sarcasm tag goes here.

It's incredibly insensitive and a phenomenally bad idea. It isn't going to help us at all. The bigots, being bigots, aren't going to want anything to do with us no matter how much we nod in their direction. And that's fine, because I don't want to be on their side anyway. All it accomplishes is hurting our own, and for that I'm sorry.

[Marrah_G]

176. I thought that maybe they would have heard us after the innauguration

But here they go, doing the same thing. It's frustrating.

[Ms. Toad]

181. My view on this particular prayer is different than the inaugural prayer.

That one outraged me so much I watched none of it. I knew, from listening closely, that President Obama had deep seated discomfort with the LGBT community. He needed our support to be elecgted, and intellectually he knew he should support us, but his heart wasn't there. The selection of Rick Warren was more than a slap in the face after we (often silently so as not to scare off other supporters) worked our tails off to get him elected - it was a wallop with a 2x4, swung as hard as he could manage. The celebration I had been dreaming of since I was 12 (and I was then over 50) - of a president who was not a white male taking office - had been ripped away from me because of his selection of the spiritual leader to share the stage with him.

The first two years were pretty much what I expected - one slight after another. I was outraged - but not surprised.

Then something did change. The way he spoke about the change was fundamentally different from how he spoke about supporting us during the campaign. I still suspect the timing of some of the actions were political (after all, by then we were coming up on the next election and he again needed our support) - but also I believe there was a real change.

We now have a president who openly calls for my marriage to be recognized, and a party platform that does the same,and I think he truly feels that way in his gut.

While I would not have chosen Dolon for a number of reasons, and it is a slap at my community, I feel very differently about it than I did at Obama's inauguration because the context is very different both in terms of personal and party vocal support - and what I believe is a true change of heart. I don't like the selection of Dolon, but it feels to me less toxic because of the broader context.

And - in case it needs to be said, I am speaking only for myself - not the rest of the LGBT community. Anyone who is just as outraged as they were when Rick Warren was invited to give the inaugural prayer has every right to feel that way. I'm just sharing how I, personally, feel about it.

[Jamastiene]

183. K&R

[Le Taz Hot]

186. More Obama appeasement.

Not surprising, particularly after the Rick Warren fiasco. Disgusting, but not surprising.

[pecwae]

188. '08 redeux

not only at the DNC, but right here. There's always the talk about support for equal civil rights, but they're so easily put aside at election time because "this is the most important election of our lifetime". Every election is important, every person is important, having principles that aren't negotiable because of political expediency is also important.

[QC]

189. kick

[KoKo]

193. K&R...I don't understand their thinking on this except pandering and a sticking in the eye..

It's very disappointing.

Thanks for posting about it..

[AngryOldDem]

197. Just one more slap in the face to the LGBT community.

I don't get it.

[Bluerthanblue]

199. Clint Eastwood being pro-choice, and pro Marriage equality probably

pissed off some republicans too.

I don't mean to minimize or ignore the reality that Dolan is a bigoted jerk, and that his policies and perspective is destructive and hurtful, but I also think that his participation at the DEMOCRATIC convention will piss off and disturb people that share his hate and bigotry.

I am sorry that he is able to cause so much pain, and my heart goes out to to you and to my GLBT brothers and sisters- I sincerely hope he doesn't make the situation worse by saying anything at all about his perspective of equal rights in his closing 'prayer'.

I don't see it as an "honor" for him to speak at the convention, but rather a very real, (and sadly for many) painful example of the fact that Democrats don't just talk about the desire to be tolerant of those we strongly disagree with- and who work against us- something todays republicans can't begin to imagine.

I do understand your perspective. I wish he was not speaking.

[jobycom]

209. And Dolan will probably do the same thing to Obama that Eastwood did to Romney.

Imagine his prayer, when he prays for an end to abortion and for Biblical marriage. Nothing that happened at the convention before that will be remembered by anyone.

It's a stupid risk, and an offensive action.

[The Link]

200. Why isn't there am outspoken racist speaking?

And would there be people defending that if there was?

I don't think there would be.

[Dannyteague]

201. Agree but we need Catholic votes.

Sometimes you have to put up with things for the greater good.

[jobycom]

208. So why not invite the KKK, and get more Southern white votes.

I mean, if we are just going to invite people who are hateful to everything the party stands for, why stop at the Cardinal?

Not to mention, we aren't going to get any votes because of him, anyway. We already carry New York City. Outside of that, conservative Catholics are going to vote conservative, and liberal Catholics are going to vote liberal, and most of them won't even know who the Cardinal is (I come from a Catholic family).

All we are doing is justifying hatred and bigotry as long as the hateful bigot hides behind (a misinterpretation of) the Bible (which condemns neither abortion nor gay marriage, btw). Oh, yeah, and stabbing in the back many Americans who see the Democrats as the only chance this country has of living up to its ideals of equality.

[Smarmie Doofus]

233. There are plenty of ordained RC clergy that are not publicly...

... identified w. rabid anti-lgbt rhetoric.

This is one of the dumbest decisions I have ever witnessed.

[Omaha Steve]

207. Pride at Work is passing along the concerns LGBT have on this!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021278819

[William769]

212. Recommended and kicked.

[Capt. Obvious]

217. Well now, don't you feel silly

All this worry for naught

Cardinal Dolan Uses Prayer To Take Shots At DNC On Gay Marriage, Abortion

New York Cardinal Timothy Dolan used his closing benediction at the Democratic convention on Thursday night to take shots at the party's positions on gay marriage and abortion rights.

"We ask your benediction on those waiting to be born, that they may be welcomed and protected," Dolan, who heads the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, said during the prayer.

"Show us anew that happiness is found only in respecting the laws of nature and of nature’s God. Empower us with your grace so that we might resist the temptation to replace the moral law with idols of our own making, or to remake those institutions you have given us for the nurturing of life and community," Dolan said, in an unmistakable reference to gay marriage.

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/cardinal-dolan-uses-prayer-to-troll-dnc-on

[WorseBeforeBetter]

221. Yep, a disgusting end to an otherwise glorious event. (n/t)

[obamanut2012]

223. A very divisive and upsetting end to a glorious week

All so unnecessary.

[hunter]

220. Thank God Dolan didn't show up at the Republican convention...

The California Proposition 8 alliance between the Catholics and the Mormons was a match consummated in hell.

Still,

[obamanut2012]

224. He was at the RNC

[hunter]

227. Ugh.

[yardwork]

238. "I know you guys are an integral part of this party now, but..."

I got news for you newbie, "we gays" have been an integral part of this party for a very long time, longer than you've been in this world. Gay folks weren't invented yesterday.

But thank you for proving a point that many of us make on DU from time to time, which is that homophobia is still very much alive and well.

Oh, and welcome to DU. Enjoy your stay.

[Navl]

241. I said

you GUYS not you gays. The point is that the Democratic party is VERY diverse, and if it tries to please everybody all the time it will end up splintring into a thousand pieces, none of which by itself will have much of an impact.

[DURHAM D]

239. " If they tried to please everybody all the time they would end up chasing their tails

and never get anywhere." Wow - how astute.

From reading your prior posts I assume you are a Paul supporter. Sorry but he lost.

[DevonRex]

229. Question: Do you believe we can beat Vatican money, Mormon money

AND corporate money? Oh and the money of all those billionaires who are now free to give 100s of millions to buy cabinet posts?

Just asking.

And, on edit, my remote worked just fine. I honored that asshole with a channel switch. Never saw or heard him.

[bigtree]

230. yes

[Le Taz Hot]

231. I'm neither gay nor a Democrat

but as a confirmed leftist, middle-aged straight broad, it pissed me off to no end to see them pandering to bigots and giving this hate priest the podium. Oh, it all got explained away in nice, soft-spoken tones, pinkies up an all, but perfume on shit doesn't make it stink any less.

[polichick]

232. Makes me sick to see ANY catholic official honored...

Here's an organization that makes gays and women second class citizens AND harbors pedophiles.

SICK.

[dogday]

244. Absolutely right

they suck, that simple...

[LanternWaste]

234. Political expediency is one thing

He shouldn't have spoken, he shouldn't have been invited. He stands for intolerance and bigotry, and by speaking, he advertised to the entire world the although the Democratic party may not condone such actions, it will tolerate them if there's a big enough beneficial return on the political investment.


Political expediency is one thing. But lacking the courage of your own conviction because you're afraid of what Fox News may say is something completely different-- and to me illustrates cowardice. (Not "you" as in the author of the OP, but "you" as in everyone who tolerates this...)


That said, no-- I don't know how devastating it feels... and to be honest, I can't even guess.

[bluestate10]

242. Reality escapes you.

Democrats are firmly behind full rights for gay people. If you didn't get the full throated affirmation of that by the party all during it's convention there is nothing that I can write that would inform you. Dolan is a bit player that democrats can't treat badly even as the party pursue sane policy. Dolan is on the losing side of history, that will become obvious in time. Even in the catholic church, voices are speaking out against the views held by Dolan, that is eons better than the past for that church.

[Bolo Boffin]

243. I'm a gay Democrat and an atheist. And I'm not devastated at all.

I flipped Dolan the bird while he prayed and that was it. I wish I could have been there in Charlotte to do it on the convention hall. But it doesn't rule my life.

Clint cussed out an empty chair and Dolan prayed to an empty heaven. Fuck both of them. Forward.