The Gaslighting Has Started

[orangecrush]

My clock radio woke me up to NPR telling me all about how Mike Pence found Jesus and how it was so great for his political career. So I jumped out of bed and turned the radio to the oldies station...

Yesterday it was a Hill poll saying that support for impeachment has "dropped sharply* among independent voters.

It reminds me of the Tom Tomorrow comic mocking corporate media outlets, "BUT THE REAL QUESTION ABOUT IMPEACHING TRUMP IS, HOW BAD WILL IT BE FOR DEMOCRATS?" 😂

The Gaslighting has started. They are already priming us for "President Pence", and expect a flood of dubious "good news for Trump" and "bad news for Democrats" bullshit to appear out of nowhere, a sure sign that Trump is in reality getting closer every day to being removed from office.

Don't fall for it. The goal of disinformation is to demoralize and dishearten.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

1. If Impeachment support is dropping

We won't need to worry about President Pence

But I understand where you're coming from.

[kimbutgar]

48. I still think that poll was slanted repuke to give a narrative.

[olegramps]

49. The gas lighting is not starting but intensifying.

[soldierant]

111. Exactly.

[atreides1]

2. He found Jesus, alright

The man was standing outside a Home Depot, when Pence drove up looking for day laborers...

[Beakybird]

4. Lol!

[orangecrush]

12. ...

[Iggo]

39. Only 'cause Jesus didn't see him coming.

[mjvpi]

68. I've always liked

"I didn’t know he was lost"

[orangecrush]

77. ...

[at140]

3. Sorry, but I prefer to have a president who is not

a Jesus freak, or any other religion zealot for that matter.
Separation of state and religion is best.

[RussBLib]

5. A Jesus freak president is the last thing we need

Well, next to a murderous president, I guess.

[orangecrush]

13. Agree 100%

[redstatebluegirl]

31. You know I'm a Unitarian, not a Jesus freak but I respect President Carter.

I always think of him as someone who is a true Christian, lives by the Bible, unlike many of the so called Christians who do not live a life Jesus would be proud of.

He is one of the few people I have seen that put Christianity in a good light these days.

A little off topic, I know we are talking about Pence here, but just wanted to point out one President I believe walks the walk.

[jberryhill]

41. "lives by the Bible"

Well, you must mean "lives by the good parts of the Bible, instead of the bad parts of the Bible."

If I had to pick a person who lived their life by the teachings of any particular book, I'd have to say that the one which served me best in my life was the Chilton's mid-1970's edition Toyota Corolla repair manual. It did me more practical good than anything in the Bible ever did.

[snort]

54. What was the dwell in the house of the Lord?

[jberryhill]

56. Oddly enough, as I recall it was 52 degrees

However, there are no Toyotas in the Bible. Only GM and Honda products. Jesus used a Colt to ride into Jerusalem, and Acts 2:1 says the Apostles were all with one Accord.

There were some really good aftermarket electronic ignition systems though, which I would have bought if I had the money at the time.

[snort]

63. A Colt, built by Mitsubishi,

the diamond star in the east. Mind blown.

[jberryhill]

65. Yeah, it was towed by a Caravan the three wise guys had

[The Mouth]

96. I thought they all were in (an) Accord

[jberryhill]

100. Those were the Apostles

The wise guys came in a Caravan, because they didn't want to walk a mile for a Camel.

[wnylib]

105. Best line of the bunch.

1

[Beartracks]

106. Aftermarket ignition! LOL

That joke was an epiphany!

=========

[at140]

45. I respect president Carter's Christianity, so long as he or others

do not push it on me in speeches. I don't think Carter does.
But Pence might.

[Still In Wisconsin]

35. Yeah, I could see Jesus freak Pence deciding it was time for the Rapture and nuking everybody.

He, of course, would be kept safe along with Mother, because someone would need to continue to represent 'Murica, you know, until Jeez actually makes his appearance.

[geardaddy]

60. + a brazillion

[maxsolomon]

64. I'd be willing to roll the dice on a Buddhist.

Forced mindfulness training!

[rockfordfile]

86. That's what trump is.

[Joe941]

6. I believe the polls are right and support is dropping.

We need to redouble our efforts and get the evidence out in a more digestible format. Technical details dont work with the disengaged voters. They just dont have time to take it in.

[orangecrush]

14. ...

[Ilsa]

50. People are easily bored and distracted.

They turn to their smartphones for the next bit of titillating news. If trump had raped a troup of webelos in the Lincoln bedroom, it might get their attention back to his criminal nature.

[Joe941]

78. Yup that was basically what I was thinking.

[rockfordfile]

89. I don't agree with that. The people are getting that trump is a crook and traitor.

The impeachment hearings are backing that up. Millions of Americans are watching .

[rockfordfile]

87. No they are not. The people are getting that Trump has broken the law and is a traitor.

[Joe941]

88. Ok. Since you say so that changes everything.

[rockfordfile]

91. Folks in neighborhoods are talking

[NRaleighLiberal]

7. The gaslighting began a long time ago.

[orangecrush]

15. Expect a crescendo.

[NRaleighLiberal]

16. Under trump it has been deafening. Yes, it will go to 11 now.

[orangecrush]

21. You might need...

[rzemanfl]

30. It ain't just the holidays that is bringing out all the socks.

It's all in the sheet music.

[KPN]

32. Yep. 24/7 since 2015 actually. We only really started paying attention after November 8, 2016,

perhaps some of us a bit before.

Comey's play made all of this and it's effects -- since then and into future -- possible. We all need to remember that.

[YOHABLO]

8. I would say most people are still tuned out.

I guess it's up to those who ACTUALLY VOTE!

[orangecrush]

17. Of course we need to vote

But the impeachment is real.

Anything can happen now.

[YOHABLO]

20. Impeachment will happen. We'll have the votes.

But the RW narrative is that the Dems are doing this to sway the public against another 4 years of Trump. True we want him out but we are impeaching because of malfeasance in office.

[orangecrush]

23. After Hill's testimony

If Democrats can't get the truth to the public, they are in the wrong business.

I firmly believe they will bring the truth into the spotlight.

They have been nothing short of magnificent.

[YOHABLO]

33. Do you really think the average Joe could keep up with Hill?

Yes the woman was brilliant and very articulate. I suffer from a little ADD so I found it tough holding on to every word in her English accent. (excuse the 'Joe' remark no pun intended) I hope people were watching, and I hope they have a better understanding of Trump's malfeasance.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

36. I'd say yes. She could have been straight out of central casting for a patriot.

The image she projected: speech, words, demeanor, responses, the respect she showed, really everything about her was pretty easy to follow. She definitely was the patriot. In the world of good/bad guys, she could easily be picked out as the good guy.

[Still In Wisconsin]

37. Nobody persuadable will care.

At this point, if you haven't made your mind up about Trump you're hopeless.

All of this will end up helping Trump with the idiot middle 10% of "independents."

[AnotherMother4Peace]

43. Wrong. Many people are sort of apolitical, & go along to get along w/GOP family, friends, community

The more the truth they are exposed to, the more likely they are to not vote GOP, or vote for a Democrat. I very much doubt my friend's rabid Trump family realize she has no respect for him, because she used to be one of them.

[rockfordfile]

94. Of course they would. The Republican party is corrupt.

[KPN]

46. THIS

[AnotherMother4Peace]

53. Who are these "most people" you speak of? Link? nt

[YOHABLO]

61. Every day average workers who don't have the time to watch.

[evilhime]

10. Great point

about being disheartened and defeated . . .it is how they win and how authoritarian types have always won throughout history. And now with the Lindsey patsy opening an investigation into Biden it'll screw up any chances he had because of the taint they will throw on it no matter what they find true or otherwise.

[orangecrush]

18. Anyone with a bullshit filter

Will see through Lindsey.

[YOHABLO]

24. When you have multiple investigations it's just chaotic and

meant to be that way. Graham knows this. It becomes a cacophony of information were by no one knows what to focus on. No one knows what to believe.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

51. Having a hard time understanding your "no one knows what to believe" posts. nt

[YOHABLO]

55. People other than DUers are not so astute.

[rockfordfile]

93. Bring it on

[ancianita]

11. Exactly. There's good and bad sampling. Until there's a major poll like Gallup, this is bullshit.

Trump SEEMS to promote Pence The Pardoner, but he's not serious, either. He's trying to keep cult votes, is all.

[orangecrush]

19. Exactly.

[colorado_ufo]

22. Tokyo Rose, again.

Look it up, Young Folks!

[orangecrush]

25. Yes

And thank you.

[UpInArms]

28. Or Baghdad Bob

[ancianita]

59. Heh heh then call him Donbass Donnie.

[Nitram]

26. As far as I can tell, the gaslighting never stopped.

[Efilroft Sul]

27. Whether support for impeachment is dropping or not, the Democrats must...

…speak plainly to every voter how Trump's continued lobbying for foreign interference in our elections is unpatriotic, unAmerican, and an intolerable act. And if the Republican Party continues to support this president and not impeach him for his crimes, then they are (as one wise DUer said today) his accomplices and will be called as such by their Democratic opponents.

Call them all crooks! People will understand that.

[CrispyQ]

29. It's as if the media wants the US to go fascist.

They could have a huge impact on the narrative but creating a horse race atmosphere that increases ratings is more important than protecting our representative government.

Everything for profit. It's killing the planet & destroying everything good.

[orangecrush]

76. +1

[wnylib]

107. And ratings will not matter a bit if we do end up

with a fascist dictatorship and state media. Shooting themselves in the foot with shortsightedness.

[Still In Wisconsin]

34. Not trying to be an ass, but I don't think you're right. Trump IS surging in polls.

I'm not just talking about Rasmussen either. Independents are breaking HARD for Trump in poll after poll. It shouldn't be this way, but this is the country we've got. Impeachment will end up being good for Trump, just as it was for Bill Clinton. I still think we HAVE to impeach him. It's bad for us politically and will probably get Trump re-elected, but to NOT do so would be to say that we sanction all of his nefarious deeds...almost literally, not impeaching Trump would be akin to saying, "Go ahead Donald, shoot someone in the middle of Fifth Avenue, we won't do anything about it because it might hurt us politically."

[YOHABLO]

38. I hope you're wrong. I don't know about surging of any kind.

[Still In Wisconsin]

42. Example: one month ago Trump was trailing Joe Biden in Wisconsin by ten points in an A-rated poll

that is considered the "gold standard" here. Now Trump holds a comfortable lead over Biden and every other Democratic contender in the same poll. I can't quote numbers of the top of my head but I know his polling has improved in Michigan, Florida, Minnesota and North Carolina, all considered battleground states as well.

The thing you have to remember is that it's the "persuadable 10%" in the middle that decides elections, and most of those people are idiots. They're the ones that are breaking hard for Trump. People don't like impeachment.

[Cosmocat]

57. Good posts

"The thing you have to remember is that it's the "persuadable 10%" in the middle that decides elections, and most of those people are idiots."

YEP!

[whathehell]

79. Please explain

why you view the "persuadable 10% in the middle" as "idiots".

[kentuck]

40. Do you think he will still win, if they don't impeach?

Or will Democrats win if they don't impeach?

If it doesn't matter, and Trump is going to win either way, why shouldn't Democrats just follow their conscience and vote for what they think is best for the country?

Democrats should do what is right and protect our Constitution.

They should impeach.

[Still In Wisconsin]

47. I agree that they should impeach.

There's really no other option. They're following the constitution in impeaching him. I'm just saying that they (and we) are in an impossible situation in that there really isn't any choice BUT to impeach, but that doing so will in all likelihood result in four more years of Trump. Who knows, maybe not impeaching would make the Democrats look like wimps, and THAT would cause a Trump win just the same. But either way, it looks very likely that we're in for another Trump term... he thrives best in chaos, and what could be more chaotic than where we are now?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

67. Maybe we just have to keep our nose down and

forge forward and see what happens. Speed it up though. I think not protecting the vote is the biggest danger on the horizon that may rig him in.

[orangecrush]

74. We are NOT in for another Trump term.

[Still In Wisconsin]

80. I think we are. I hope Trump can be defeated,

but right now he has ALL of the momentum in the polls, and the country is collectively pretty stupid. We've devolved to the point where people either don't care about politics, or they think of it as blood sport. That's why we got Trump- he's more symptom than cause in my opinion.

[orangecrush]

82. If that's what you think you are on the wrong website

[Still In Wisconsin]

83. Why would you say that? I am a lifelong Democrat and don't plan to change that.

I just don't expect to win the Presidency in 2020. Paradoxically, we could win the Senate because there are so many vulnerable Republicans in places like Maine and Arizona, but still have Trump re-elected.

I think the most likely scenario is we hold the House, come very close to capturing the Senate if not actually getting it, but lose the big prize. Then, in 2022, it would probably be a midterm bloodbath for the Republicans in the Congressional midterms, much like the 2006 ass kicking they took when Bush II was a lame duck. At some point the economy will cycle back down again, and then the Republicans will get the blame.

How does thinking any of that mean that I shouldn't be on DU?

[czarjak]

85. "Rigged"

[Laura PourMeADrink]

66. I think we are hitting headwind because it's been so

long since Mueller report came out April 4. All that time people have been hearing 'will they won't they.' General public sick of hearing about it.

That said, you are 100% right, it's our constitutional and moral duty to impeach. But given the restlessness of the public, should have pared it down and expedited it. Don't think you have to have witnesses on for 8 hrs to get 30 min of pertinent info out of them.

[orangecrush]

75. Agree

And I look askance at those on here suggesting that Trump is undefeatable.

[Still In Wisconsin]

81. Trump isn't undefeatable but he's holding all the cards.

he's got momentum, right wing media, the Russians, and a very stupid American public to play to.

[rockfordfile]

92. He doesn't have any

You wonder why somebody just said you're on the wrong website. You're pushing right-wing propaganda. "he's got momentum"?

[rockfordfile]

95. That's all you have been pushing. Trump will not be reelected. We have to get out work and vote

We have to get out work and vote. We have to do no matter who the Republican is.

[Still In Wisconsin]

99. Everyone can do what they think is best

I don’t think there’s much of a chance of beating Trump, but as I said on other posts we CAN keep the House and with a few breaks get the Senate. The latter would neuter McConnell and stop Trump from appointing more far RW judges.

[Initech]

44. I really wish the Christofascists would go away.

Like for a very long time.

[orangecrush]

72. Same here!

[MontanaMama]

52. Chuckie Toad will be leading

Last edited Fri Nov 22, 2019, 02:45 PM - Edit history (1)

the gaslighting...steer clear of him for your own sanity.

[orangecrush]

71. Will do.

[WhiteTara]

58. NPR National Petroleum Radio

The word public only applies to who pays.

[orangecrush]

70. Weathervane radio.

[WhiteTara]

73. ndeed

[MarcA]

98. Non Pertinent Radio. n/t

[wnylib]

108. What alternative is there? RW hate radio?

Isn't it long past time for us to have left wing radio stations and programming at least as widespread as the hate-mongering disinformation specialists?

[MarcA]

114. Yes. I can't understand how it is there are so many religious

broadcasters on low-power FM stations (left side of the dial), abandoned AM stations
and low-power UHF TV stations, yet it is so difficult to find any left/progressive/liberal
stations. While some may have big money backing, many do not. It can't be a matter
of not enough money. Maybe liberals just don't listen to radio or watch TV that much
anymore.

[wnylib]

115. if that's true about people who watch tv and listen

to radio, then would it be worthwhile to give them alternatives to the RW BS?

[Moe Joe MoFo]

62. The Hill?

FOX Lite!

[orangecrush]

69. Yep.

[Shoonra]

84. About "President Pence" . . .

There's been a spate of anti-Pence articles during the last year or so, telling us about Pence's eccentricities and outright rightwing extremism. I suspect this flood of anti-Pence propaganda was not all done by anti-Trump people, but that a good deal of it was worked up and promoted by Trumpettes in an effort to discourage Democrats and progressives from removing the Stable Genius from office. They hope that by convincing us that Pence would be worse than Trump, we will overlook all of Trump's chicanery and keep Pence from filling a vacancy.

Well, I am not sure that Pence is worse than Trump. I'm willing to give him a chance (at least until Election Day).

[rockfordfile]

90. You have got desperate Trump supporters from the start trying to push the hearing is

You have got desperate Trump supporters from the start trying to push the hearing is boring. Un-American R/W radio and Republican Congressmen started this from the beginning.

They're doing that because they think by telling people propaganda of "it's boring" won't pay attention to the crimes of trump.

Sorry to burst your un-American right-wing bubble. But Americans in the millions are watching. It's a slow burn.

[orangecrush]

104. It's ratings

Far exceed those of "The Apprentice".

[DFW]

97. Unit 74455--working overtime??

I was just having dinner with a colleague who lives in Barcelona who said that concrete evidence of Russia stoking the Catalan separatist movement had just been definitively pinpointed by Spain, and that it would not exactly lead to closer relations between Spain and Russia--not that Spain ever forgot how Stalin stole their gold reserves in 1936.

[orangecrush]

102. Thanks for the Intel!

[pansypoo53219]

101. the GOP is light on jesus tho. old testament thumpers.

[orangecrush]

103. Republican Jesus

[wnylib]

109. Re: NPR and Pence

I heard the same program. If you listened to all of it, they pointed out Pence's hypocrisy on religion and his self-serving view of it as politicalky useful, going as far back as a college paper on Lincoln and religion.

On the polls, NPR said that independent support for impeachment is falling. Is that a result of the hearings in general or of one or two witnesses, eg Sondland?

The most recent polls on the general election show Trump gaining a slight lead over Biden, running even with Warren, and lagging behind Sanders. We need the experience of Biden to straighten out the Trump mess, but it might be that a Sanders/Warren ticket can draw more votes, even in the general. The American people seem to be looking for big change, as in 2016.

Almost guaranteed the House will impeach. Obstruction charges are easier to prove and for people to understand than the bribery charge.

Sondland did more harm than good in his testimony. Fiona was far better but by then fewer people were watching.

Almost guaranteed the Senate will not convict.

We should have a thread on what the Senate trial will look like and get prepared for it.

Trump is beatable. We have to work hard for our victory but it is possible.

[orangecrush]

110. Thank you very much!

A very reasonable and thought out post!

[orangecrush]

112. P.S.

"If you had heard all of it"..
..
If, like me, you had the alarm set to NPR and we're getting ready to leave, you would not have heard "all of it", so there is that.

5 minutes of Pence biography gave me enough motivation to leave my warm bed to change the station.

Thanks, NPR!

[wnylib]

116. Ah well. I understand the motivation perfectly to

get away from Pence discussion.

Also the need to get up and out the door. I can listen longer only because I'm retired now.

[orangecrush]

117. ...

[greymattermom]

113. Can Trump debate?

Any one of our candidates can do better than he can. He only talks about himself. Our candidates will talk about us.

[wnylib]

118. You are absolutely right about his lack of

debate skills. He uses con stories, victim playing, and obfuscation instead. And people buy into it. Much as I despise him, I admit that he is good at the con game.

Hillary was heads above him in every debate. But he does not debate at all. He sidesteps and changes the topic and story line. Slippery as a greased eel.

Whoever his opponent is will need to expose his con style in debates with quick wit, humor and ridicule delivered smoothly, but also straight answers on topic that expose him by contrast, and firm, authoritative calling him out on lies and spin. I can see Harris, Warren, or Sanders doing that. Biden can, too, when he is at his best, but I think others can do it more reliably and consistently.

It's.not about debate skills when facing off against Trump. It's about deflating his style, piercing right through it to humiliate him, using facial expressions and body language as much words. Pelosi does it well with a combination of calm strength, confidence, and maternal authority. But she draws on her own style, knowledge, and experience. Whoever goes against him on stage has to have their own style that shows him up as a shallow, ignorant, self-serving game player while appearing unruffled and likeable.

Yes, substance matters. But the right style is what can defeat him.

[wnylib]

119. I would add that I think the Dem establishment

would prefer a centrist candidate. If they want a centrist to win, though, they have to come up with one who has the style to cut Trump down and the personal appeal to inspire and draw voters to him/her. Pretty late in the game to do that.

[radius777]

120. Dems have a duty to history and the constitution.

Impeaching Trump and getting all the facts on the table is what we should've done against Bush and his illegal wars. By not doing anything we would be complicit with Trumpism - impeachment is the best thing Dems have done in years.

People are talking about some polls favoring Trump - but you can't look at one here or there, but the trendlines. Trump has maintained a very underwater rating of 40% or so that is historically low for an incumbent president with a good (at least on paper) economy. Trump backed candidates have lost in red states recently.

Once we get the facts on the table and the impeachment is over, we need to put it all together and drive a simple and effective narrative.

Everyone is focusing on the Rustbelt/Midwest, but I have feeling the Sunbelt (AZ,GA) may surprise us, as those areas are looking more and more like the Obama coalition and the 2018 blue wave coalition. Realignment is occuring, where white working class in the heartland moving away from Dems, and suburbs/metros/college towns moving more strongly towards us. People of color and women are becoming a stronger force in American politics, as every year passes. The GOP will pay for Trump, in the long run.

[orangecrush]

121. Thanks for the great post.