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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsGermany expels two Russian diplomats over murder in August.
German prosecutors said evidence suggests Russia or Chechnya may have ordered the murder of a Georgian man in Berlin. Two Russian diplomats have been expelled, with the German government discussing further steps.
German federal prosecutors announced on Wednesday that they are taking over investigations into the murder of a Georgian asylum-seeker in Berlin, confirming earlier reports.
With Berlin's attorney general saying evidence points to Russian state involvement, pressure is likely to mount on German Chancellor Angela Merkel's government to send a strong signal to Moscow.
What we know so far:
Prosecutors said there is "sufficient evidence" to indicate that the man's murder was carried out on the behalf of the Russian state or by Chechnya.The German Foreign Ministry also announced that two employees at the Russian Embassy in Berlin had been designated personae non gratae and were expelled.The names and positions of the diplomats were not given, although the ministry said it took the move after Russian authorities failed to "cooperate sufficiently" in the murder investigation.Russia's Foreign Ministry called the move to expel the diplomats an "unfriendly, groundless step" and vowed to respond. Russia's ambassador to Berlin, Sergey Nechaev, said the expulsions "will not be left unanswered."
https://amp.dw.com/en/germany-expels-russian-diplomats-after-murder-in-berlin/a-51527185?__twitter_impression=true
crickets
(25,950 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)But it depends on why they were after that guy. People in a theater and kids at a school were slaughtered by Chechen extremist. If that guy planned it or had a major operational role in it, I can SE why they wanted him, we have done similar many times. I do think that they should have brought their case to German leaders, presented evidence and had the guy extradited to Russia. To kill him in a park in a country where there is rule of law was wrong.
Ilsa
(61,688 posts)crime in a theater occur!
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)There were something like 3 slaughters of innocent people in Russia during his time with the extremist, the theater and elementary school were by far the bloodiest. In the theater something like 100-200 people died and at the school a similar number of kids died over a week or two week standoff between the extremists and Russian security forces. So, if he had any significant role in either, I can see why they want him, but murdering him was not the right choice in a country like Germany.
greenjar_01
(6,477 posts)Is there evidence that this particular individual was involved in any of the theater attacks? It's strange that the BND would allow him to resettle in Germany if so.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)That war was a brutal war. Russia doesn't have clean hands by any measure, but attacking theater goers and school children is wrong. Russia must feel that they have the goods on him, Putin is a killer, but I am not sure that he has killed someone who was of no threat to him or who had not done what he saw as an unforgivable acts against Russia. The way the guy was taken out makes me believe that some type of vengeance was being done.
greenjar_01
(6,477 posts)He was certainly high up in the Chechen war against the Russians, much of which was conventional and guerilla warfare between armed factions, but that doesn't mean he was involved in the actions you're citing. The fact that the Germans allowed him into Germany actually suggests that he wasn't involved, as the Germans have a) extremely good intelligence on such extremists and b) low tolerance for such extremists.
I agree, in any case, with your previous claim that there is no excuse for extra-judicial assassinations of this kind when extradition can be reasonably requested.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Such a thing happen enough that it should not be of a surprise. The Germans would not know him, but the Russians surely would.
I don't disagree with your conclusion that his killing was flat out murder. If the Russians had something on him, they should have worked through the German system for resolving their complaint.
greenjar_01
(6,477 posts)The BND didn't know he was there until he was gunned down in a public park?
Is that right?
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)That is not something that is new.
greenjar_01
(6,477 posts)Did it happen in this case?
Seems like a stretch, honestly. I've seen nothing to support that claim, in any case. Have you?
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)after his murder. So I have no idea of what he was known as before his murder. I would doubt that Germany would allow a high level person associated with Chechen extremism migrate to Germany under his actual name, but I admits speculating on this point. Both sides (and I hate that term) did some horrible things in that war zone and in places that were not part of the war zone.
greenjar_01
(6,477 posts)I hope we don't stray from such institutional norms of legal conduct.
In any case, the Germans are essentially saying that these two Russian nationals protected under diplomatic immunity were involved in a conspiracy - at the very least - to commit murder. Strikes me as nothing to sneeze at.
gopiscrap
(23,725 posts)coti
(4,612 posts)Or, is it more likely that the guy was a non-violent political enemy who Putin assassinated, as he has done so many times in the past?
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)The guy was a leader at a time when both sides were doing brutal things, like killing innocents.
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)marble falls
(56,975 posts)Corgigal
(9,291 posts)From Russia with blood. If you want to dig further into what Putin is doing all over the world.
I bet he enjoyed it was near Merkels office.
Twentyo
(14 posts)He's not afraid.
DFW
(54,268 posts)Germany does not maintain a standing team of assassins under diplomatic cover. This is not 1939. If Russia wants to expel two German diplomats, it can, obviously, but it will run a very real danger that the German diplomats it expels were exactly who they said they were, as opposed to the Russians being asked to leave.