How much would giving up meat help the environment?

[demmiblue]

IT IS NO secret that steaks and chops are delicious. But guzzling them incurs high costs for both carnivorous humans and the planet. Over half of adults in both America and Britain say they want to reduce their meat consumption, according to Mintel, a market-research firm. Whether they will is a different matter. The amount of meat that Americans and Britons consume per day has risen by 10% since 1970, according to figures from the UN’s Food and Agriculture Organisation.

People who want to eat less livestock—but who can’t quite bring themselves to exchange burgers for beans—might take inspiration from two recent academic papers. A study published this week by scientists at Oxford University and the University of Minnesota estimates both the medical and environmental burdens of having an extra serving per day of various food types. The health findings were sobering. Compared with a typical Western adult of the same age who eats an average diet, a person who guzzles an additional 50g of processed red meat (about two rashers of bacon) per day has a 41% higher chance of dying in a given year.

Meat has an even starker impact on the environment. Compared with a 100g portion of vegetables—the standard serving size considered in academic papers—a 50g chunk of red meat is associated with at least 20 times as much greenhouse-gas emitted and 100 times as much land use. Averaged across all the ecological indicators the authors used, red meat was about 35 times as damaging as a bowl of greens.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2019/11/15/how-much-would-giving-up-meat-help-the-environment?fsrc=scn/tw/te/bl/ed/howmuchwouldgivingupmeathelptheenvironmentdailychart

[demmiblue]

4. Lol!

I think vegans are behind this aggressive pushing of a meatless diet (just my opinion). Besides, I'm too old to be penalized by being forced to eat what I don't like.

OMG... there are just no words! Dog help us all when the right AND some on the left ignore the science.

[Doodley]

11. Yes, every time science disagrees with personal belief systems, it's a conspiracy.

[Doodley]

10. Maybe you could be sensitive to the planet and future generations.

[Codeine]

86. They have zero fucks to give

if it means they can’t blithely continue to cram double handfuls of meat down their swollen gullets all day long. “Muh Bacon” trumps all.

[Maraya1969]

16. Buy meat that is, "Humane Farming" or "Humanely Farmed"

They opened a Whole Foods here and one of the workers said that they make sure their meat comes from good sources. Besides I always check to make sure the meat is grass fed from pastures and eggs from a humane source, (I read recently that just buying, "cage free" doesn't always help as some farmers will stuff so many chickens in a pen that they still can barely move. Humane eggs come from chickens who are brought outside and given a certain amount of space to live.

I haven't done chicken or pork yet because I don't cook that.

[Doremus]

51. That's better than nothing but it still takes 10 calories of energy to get 1 calorie from beef

Raising livestock is a very inefficient use of both food and energy. We could end most of the hunger in the world simply by feeding people the corn and other grains we feed to cattle every year.

[Maraya1969]

63. Grass fed beef is actually good for the environment. If you see my other post

I talked about this movie called "the Magic pill" about the Keto diet. They talked about how many years ago there were millions of buffalo roaming around and methane was not a problem. It is the grains that they feed the livestock now that cause the methane problems. Also they showed how beef that is grass fed actually helps the environment because the grass grows faster once they eat just the top portion. This is a link to it.

https://blog.daveasprey.com/environmental-impact-grass-fed-meat/

[Doremus]

70. Uh, no.

https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/504985/grass-fed-beef-actually-worse-planet-report-finds

And it seems that even if the vegetation does sequester carbon, grass-fed beef is still an outsized source of greenhouse gasses.

To begin with, all cattle are a huge drain on the environment, no matter how you feed them. The report estimates that the livestock supply chain generates around 14.5 percent of global greenhouse gas emissions, and cattle create 65 percent of those livestock emissions. But even compared to cattle in general, grass-fed animals are heavy polluters. Within the global protein supply, grass-fed beef makes up around 1 gram of protein per person, per day, compared to 13 grams from all ruminants (cattle, sheep, goats, etc.). But these grazed cattle generate up to a third of all global greenhouse emissions from ruminants. In other words, grass-eating cattle create an outsized cost—emissions-wise—compared to the meat they provide.

And the carbon sequestration doesn't help enough to offset that. The report estimates that the carbon sequestration that might occur from grazing practices would only offset emissions by 20 percent.

[Maraya1969]

71. What that movie spoke about was how many billions of buffalo roamed around the US

many years ago. Maybe the same number of cattle that are around today.

[Doremus]

72. 50-60 million bison. There are more than 30 million cattle slaughtered each YEAR

And another 9 million are used for milk production.

[Codeine]

84. Add to that another 9 BILLION chickens

in the US alone, and 120 million pigs. And then all the animals on the rest of the planet, where there weren’t bison historically.

Herds of buffalo my ass. No fucking comparison.

[Doodley]

96. There are around 55 million turkeys slaughtered, just for Thanksgiving.

[demosincebirth]

80. Non union - will never shop there

[Maraya1969]

88. Nothing in FL is union.

[demosincebirth]

95. Must be something union - railroads, airports, container yards, etc, etc.

[Maraya1969]

100. I have a friend that worked at the airport, fueling the planes and he was paid crap wages.

I'm sure that wasn't Union. I don't know about the other ones you mention. But I know Florida is terrible when it comes to paying employees. Actually $15/hour is considered good. The minimum wage is less than $9.

[Codeine]

83. Trying to imagine how industrial killing

can be called “humane” but all I’m coming up with is mass self-delusion. The person selling you the flesh is going to tell you whatever you want to hear but the truth is far less savory.

[pwb]

2. The manure is a problem.

I have cut back on all meats.

[meow2u3]

8. The manure can be used for fertilizer

Especially for organic farming.

[Maraya1969]

18. In that special on the Keto diet they talked about how there were million of buffalos roaming

around and how they were not a problem. The problem comes from feeding the cows grains. If you allow them to eat in a pasture the grass actually grows faster and.....somehow it is all better, (I'm not a damn scientist but I understood what they were saying when they were saying it)

I don't eat much meat either but when I do I try hard to make sure the animal lived a good life first.

[Johnny2X2X]

47. This is the best post here

Grain friend cows are the problem. Grass fed beef is a totally different conversation.

[Takket]

3. Even just reducing beef (as opposed to other meats) would have a huge impact

We expend an INCREDIBLE amount of resources to raising cattle.

5) Cows are environmentally hazardous.

Cows both consume a lot of resources, and emit lots of dangerous greenhouse gases. In the US, 47% of land is dedicated to food production. Seventy percent of this land is used to grow feed for cattle. Conversely, 1% of that land is used to grow crops for humans.

Cows continuously emit methane, a greenhouse gas 23 times more potent than carbon, as they go about their days.

Source: https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/content/9-takeaways-from-leos-climate-change-doc/

[Maraya1969]

19. Here is a link that speaks to grass fed beef.

https://blog.daveasprey.com/environmental-impact-grass-fed-meat/

[Doremus]

53. Most (70-85%) of grass fed beef is imported from Australia.

But the jury is out on the benefits to the environment wherever they come from.

https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/504985/grass-fed-beef-actually-worse-planet-report-finds

[roamer65]

77. Not for much longer.

Australia has about 20-30 years left before it is agriculturally dead. Climate change is hitting the Southern Hemisphere harder first. With the Southern Hemisphere 2.5 million miles closer to the Sun during its summer is going make a larger difference as the climate changes.

[Doremus]

90. Yep, if it doesn't burn up first. :(

[SterlingPound]

5. making humans Vegan is the U.N. evil plan to curb global warming

https://www.peta.org/blog/un-climate-report-go-vegan/


but the math checks out

[Newest Reality]

6. I have been a vegetarian...

I also know a plant-based couple, (they prefer that label) who have had great benefits health-wise from a diet change. There is more and more medical evidence, (and doctors) showing a direct correlation between diet and chronic diseases to the point now that we are seeing there is nothing normal or natural or merely age-based about the prevalence of them. They are preventable for MOST people MOST of the time. There are other variables.

We learn a lot from what are called Blue Zones; certain places on the globe that have strikingly low incidences of chronic diseases, cancer, etc., and better longevity. It is a multivalent effect that includes diet, environment and behaviors. Anybody who has a chronic disease or who has been going down the ramp of heart disease where you go from intervention to intervention would be smart to do some serious looking into this because it can turn things around quickly.

Now, the reason I bring that up is that I am of the opinion that humans are ominvores, though I know there is debate about that. There are certain nutrients that we tend to obtain easily from a carnivore diet that are essential to health. If people, individually, or in in masses, are going to give up red meat, for instance, then there really has to be some solid, grounded knowledge about those nutrients and how to obtain them alternatively. We are talking about B-12, the kind of iron available, etc.

The reason I say that is that studies I have read have shown that there are most certainly huge benefits to health from a vegan diet, but there were also corresponding health problems associated with certain kinds of malnutrition. This can be rectified by using some knowledge and common sense.

So, while agreeing with the obvious impacts on the climate and a shift towards a sustainable, plant-based diet, we also have to have more nutrition information available during the transition or there can be negative effects.

[safeinOhio]

7. I've given up factory farm meat.

No factory pork, beef or chicken. I do eat lamb, goat and wild game. Range fed local.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

9. A vegetarian diet is not necessarily the unmitigated good

that its supporters want you to think.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/02/06/health/vegetarian-diet-conversation/index.html

https://graziadaily.co.uk/life/real-life/science-says-vegetarian-worse-environment-eating-meat/

Plus, isn't it interesting that meat eaters don't go out of their way to persuade others they really ought to be eating meat, while the vegans and vegetarians let you know, usually within the first five minutes, that they are not eating meat.

[Doodley]

13. I'm a vegetarian and have never sought to convert anyone. My wife is a carnivore, and

I have never once expressed a problem with that. What I do find is mockery from many that I choose not to eat meat. I am frequently told that I "don't know what I am missing," or that I should try the high-fat, meaty southern cooking my wife's family enjoy.

[0rganism]

35. excuse me? meat eaters don't go out of their way to persuade others?

"meat eaters don't go out of their way to persuade others they really ought to be eating meat"
to the extent it's true, it's because it's the fucking DEFAULT. y'all assume that everyone around you eats meat, so why talk about it? it's everywhere in the ambient culture too, especially commercials, a high percentage of which are for restaurants which specialize in hastily-prepared meat at heavily subsidized low low prices.

what's been really funny to see is how the carnivores are having conniptions now that vegetarian diets are becoming mainstream. what a bunch of bloody snowflakes the meat eaters turned out to be. maybe when you can't blindly believe everyone in your society is okay with eating meat, doing so gets a lot less fun.

"isn't it interesting?" yeah, cool story bro.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

39. So sorry about the commercials. Since I don't have a TV I tend to be

oblivious to all advertising.

And no, we're not snowflakes. If you're vegetarian and I accept a dinner invitation to your house, I am not going to demand you fix me meat. But if you accept a dinner to my house, I will try to have a few more veggies available than I might normally. Probably neither one of us is going to eat at the other's home.

[0rganism]

42. fair enough, but it's not just TV

like i said earlier, it's in the ambient culture. it permeates the places we work, play, shop, and sell. it's in the holidays we celebrate.

meat and dairy consumption are generally assumed. when i go to dinner with friends or co-workers, i often hear (unprompted, by the way -- not like i'm talking up my diet) "you're not eating the meat? i could never do that, i have to eat meat!" and it's not just me, my wife and other vegans share similar experiences. we don't invite carnivores over to our house for meals anymore, since they'll likely be disappointed (where's the beef? what, you don't eat meat? not even cheese?!?). we avoid going to other peoples' homes for meals, since it really is too much to suppose there will be a vegan option and we don't want to cause undue concern to the host/ess.

so yeah, we probably won't eat at the other's home, and that's okay. peace out and happy holidays to you and yours.

[flibbitygiblets]

65. "meat eaters don't go out of their way to persuade others they really ought to be eating meat"

Oprah might disagree with that https://www.texastribune.org/2018/01/10/time-oprah-winfrey-beefed-texas-cattle-industry/

Winfrey’s Texas beef began in April 1996, when her talk show aired an episode on food safety. A segment included discussion of bovine spongiform encephalopathy, commonly known as mad cow disease, which had recently killed cattle in England. Howard Lyman, a vegetarian and animal rights activist, predicted on the show that the disease would eventually plague the U.S. beef industry. Winfrey declared that the discussion “has just stopped me cold from eating another burger. I'm stopped."

That public statement earned Winfrey a $10M lawsuit from Big Beef (she prevailed).

Thirteen states (all red with the possible exception of CO) have "veggie libel laws" that prohibit people from saying anything negative about the meat industry. Critics believe these laws are actually meant to shut up whistleblowers and keep people ill-informed of the dangers of eating so much livestock.

[True_Blue]

97. Actually they do

I can't begin to tell you how many times I've been lectured about how not eating meat is bad for my health. I like seafood, dairy & eggs, etc... everything except meat. I'm a lacto-pescatarian, but meat eaters always assume that I must be a vegan or vegetarian just because I don't eat meat.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

104. I would never lecture anyone that they must eat meat.

And I'm sorry that anyone ever does that to you, or to anyone who chooses not to eat meat, because at a minimum it's rude.

[Greybnk48]

12. If certain animals don't have monetary value, they will be eradicated.

Pigs, beef cattle and many other animals who would lose their value if not sold for meat would be eradicated and the grazing and farmland would open to development for what? Condos? Water Parks? Subdivisions? Other ugly things.

British Philosopher Richard Hare, Peter Singer's mentor, has argued that animal lovers should practice demi-vegitarianism for the sake of the animals themselves. Not vegetarianism or veganism. Eat meat as a side, a few days a week, to save the animals from losing their value.

I've leaned this way for about 25 years after I met this Philosopher and heard him talk.

[Doodley]

14. That argument is nonsense. To move to an all vegetarian society would save the lives of hundreds

of millions of animal lives each week.

[sarisataka]

15. What would happen

To this new abundance of animals?

[Doodley]

17. There wouldn't be an abundance. They would dwindle to very small numbers.

[sarisataka]

20. I don't believe that farm animals

Last edited Thu Dec 5, 2019, 10:40 PM - Edit history (1)

Would be eradicated but there would be mass euthanasia. Logically it is the only thing that makes sense.

[Doodley]

23. There already is mass euthanasia of animals, every single day.

[sarisataka]

28. The point is mass vegetarianism

would not "save" any animals. Small populations would still be raised for other products derived from animals and the rest would be eliminated.

[Doodley]

43. It would stop the slaughter of hundreds of millions of animals every single day.

What part of "saving" animals don't you get?

[Greybnk48]

78. Again, what value would a pig have if it's not being raised for meat

to sell? They would be "allowed" to go extinct at the very least if profit cannot be made from keeping them. So "saving" the animals, like pigs, would then be allowing the species to go extinct rather than eating them?

For some animal lovers, and philosophers like Hare and others, that argument seems disingenuous.

I believe that the treatment of animals that are raised for mass consumption is horrific and cruel to the point of being evil in some cases. But I also believe that we can do much to end this type of coarse and callous treatment of animals without forcing everyone to go vegetarian. Joel Salatin is someone who has worked diligently to educate people about how it can be done. There are others as well. And it's much healthier food than what we have now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Salatin

[dware]

30. It's your choice to be a vegetarian,

it's my choice to be a meat eater, I will continue to eat meat.

I'm 72 yo and in perfect health, been eating meat all my life, doesn't seem to have affected my health.

[Doremus]

54. Too bad the planet (and the animals) can't say the same. nt

[pintobean]

67. Being at the top of the food chain has it's advantages.

[Doremus]

69. Yeah, we don't have to wait to be picked off by predators, we can take ourselves out. nt

[customerserviceguy]

21. If your animal worship religion/philosophy

makes you feel holy, then go for it.

But I'm not giving up my steak because of your misguided beliefs.

[dware]

31. Well said. nt

[hunter]

32. Well, if that's the way you feel about it...

w

[demmiblue]

33. What are you going on about?

What a strange response. I guess science isn’t your strong suit.

[customerserviceguy]

49. That's the latest "card"

being played. "If you don't agree with me, you are being unscientific."

[Doremus]

55. It's the old "muh bacon" defense. lololo

[yewberry]

68. Can you eat your steak without insulting other people?

Can you try?

Seems that you show up in every thread about this topic and say shitty things about people for no reason other than the fact that you get away with it.

[customerserviceguy]

73. The vegan/vegetarian group

is the safe space provided here for people who want to believe that everyone who disagrees with them is heinously wrong. A few months ago, they couldn't handle my remarks about how they proselytize their beliefs, and that's the reason they get the reactions that they do. So, they banned me from there, everywhere else is where I get to stand up for myself and my fellow omnivores.

[flvegan]

74. LOL that's not why you were banned.

And it's not "they" it's me, snowflake.

[yewberry]

89. DU routinely allows you and others to say shitty and untrue things about us.

Just because it's allowed doesn't make it true or right. As I said before preachy judgmental jerks exist at the far end of every spectra-- that doesn't make them vegan or omnivore, that just makes them preachy judgmental jerks.

Your opinion is that we accuse you of being "heinously wrong" and proselytize, but I've never done either of those things. I don't think I'm "holy" and I don't "worship" animals in some weird religious fashion. You have opined about how you believe we are somehow plotting to take meat away from you. You're the outlier with bizarre beliefs, not us.

And you were banned from VVAR because you were insulting us in a closed forum, not because we can't "handle" your remarks.

[Codeine]

105. I don't believe people who eat meat

are “heinously wrong” if for no other reason than my wife and kids eat meat.

And the notion that someone needs to “stand up” for meat eaters is quite similar to the notion that people need to defend white people from racism — the overwhelmingly vast majority of humans are meat eaters, nobody needs to defend them. They’re doing just fine.

And you got banned because that’s how groups work, not because somebody couldn’t handle your special truths.

[MrsCoffee]

22. Eating meat is how we evolved.

It’s entirely possible that without an early diet that included generous amounts of animal protein, we wouldn’t even have become human—at least not the modern, verbal, intelligent humans we are.

Not sure if that means anything going forward or not, but there's that.

[Doodley]

25. How is that relevant to making choices now that are less damaging to the environment?

[brooklynite]

24. Would you miss the cows?

I think some vegans imagine that farm animals would return to a wild existence that they haven't lived in thousands of years.

[demmiblue]

34. ...

[Doremus]

56. Things that crack me up:

Carnivores who worry about :
1) the well-being of animals that aren't going to slaughter
2) that there might be millions of animals left over when the "vegan light switch" is pushed

[brooklynite]

61. Not troubled at all, but I DO enjoy a good "Holier than Thou" thread...

[MLAA]

26. I've been off animal products for years. Save your health, save animals and save planet 🙂

If you have Netflix or iTunes check out The Game Changers. Great movie about professional athletes improving their performance on plant based diet. Runners, football players, mixed martial art champion, Olympic athletes and more. Also discusses sexual performance improvement and heart disease reversal and prevention.

Very entertaining movie, doesn’t feel like a documentary.

[Johnny2X2X]

48. The Game Changers has been thoroughly debunked

Some good info in it for sure, but it’s been exposed as stretching the truth and being very selective with data.

[Doremus]

57. Really? I hadn't heard that. Got any links to reputable sources?

[MLAA]

59. The meat industry has certainly been vocal against the movie 🙂

[democratisphere]

27. Great for the environments.

Better for the animal populations.

[Kali]

29. these studies and stats rarely take into account the vastly different types of husbandry that exists

nor the incredible BENEFITS large grazing animals can provide to the environment. the way animals are raised and fed affects the nutrition of the meat, as well.

[The_jackalope]

36. Not as much as giving up children.

The climate mitigation gap: education and government recommendations miss the most effective individual actions

We recommend four widely applicable high-impact (i.e. low emissions) actions with the potential to contribute to systemic change and substantially reduce annual personal emissions:

* having one fewer child (an average for developed countries of 58.6?tonnes CO2-equivalent (tCO2e) emission reductions per year),
*living car-free (2.4 tCO2e saved per year),
*avoiding airplane travel (1.6 tCO2e saved per roundtrip transatlantic flight) and
*eating a plant-based diet (0.8 tCO2e saved per year)

Having one less child has the same impact as 73 people switching from being meat-eating omnivores to vegetarian.

There are many ways to reduce your impact on the planet. Do as many of tghem as you can, but for the planet's sake, STOP HAVING CHILDREN!

[roamer65]

75. I've told two nieces not to have children.

Do you want to be well off like your uncle? Don’t have children.

3 steps for effective population reduction.

1st step...remove all government incentives for having children.
2nd step...free birth control and abortions on demand.
3rd step...cash payments for vasectomies, birth control implants and abortions.

[gulliver]

37. This argument is counterproductive and, therefore, ironically, anti-environment.

If we want to continue doing nothing about climate change on a global scale, there is no better way to ensure that than to tell people they have to trade meat for a stable climate. We are much, much better off talking about clean energy, carbon capture, and the growing yumminess of meat alternatives.

Time is on the side of the vegetarian. If we manage to save the planet from the Republicanists, people will end up eating vegetables and meat substitutes more and more imo. But we can't save the planet by acting like we want to take away people's favorite foods. That's just asking for them to ignore us and the truth of climate change in the bargain.

[The_jackalope]

38. Better to eat Republicans

They may taste a little bitter though.

I agree wholeheartedly with your observation that telling people they have to give up things they enjoy (like driving cars, eating meat or having children) is not going to promote behaviour change.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

64. Ok, two cannibals sitting down for dinner:

Cannibal 1: Man, I really, really hate John Bolton!

Cannibal 2: Ok, then, just eat the noodles.

[Bayard]

40. I've been sick all week

Nothing like a bad case of food poisoning to make you not want to eat meat, or much of anything else!

I think its interesting that Burger King is trying out vege burgers, with people in the ads exclaiming they taste just like a Whopper. Corporate America, testing the waters.

[dware]

44. No, they don't.

just to test Burger King's claim, I tried one of their Impossible Whoppers, to me, it didn't taste anything like a normal Whopper, it left a bad after taste in my mouth.

I'll never again try one. it's real meat for me.

[Bayard]

50. Thanks!

Now I don't have to try one.

[ProfessorGAC]

85. Counterpoint

I eat them and find them a perfectly tasty burger.
You sure the aftertaste wasn't created by a preconception?

[dware]

92. I'm sure.

Hey, different strokes for different folks.

I'm not telling anyone to not eat them, I just don't think they taste anything like real meat.

[xmas74]

106. I tried one.

It wasn't too bad, though I bet it would need to be freshly cooked with no time under a heat lamp. A friend tried a bite, not knowing what it was and liked it. He said he'd consider doing a Meatless Monday if he could find more alternatives like it.

[dware]

108. Maybe it's just me,

maybe I've been eating meat for so long my taste buds can tell the difference between meat and plant based food, IDK, but, hey, if one likes it, then by all means, enjoy it.

Far be it from me to tell anyone not to eat what they prefer.

[Codeine]

109. Meh. I've been a vegan for a long time

and I thought the Impossible Whopper really sucked.

The Beyond Tacos at Taco Bell were very tasty, however, and the Beyond burgers I make at home are fantastic. They do smell a bit strange, tbh.

[dware]

111. I didn't know about the Beyond Tacos at Taco Bell.

Several truck stops have a Taco Bell on their premises, I'll definitely try one.

Thanks for that information.

Unfortunately, being a long haul truck driver limits my culinary choices, but I do try to eat healthy when it's possible, especially when I'm on R&R from the road.

[scheming daemons]

41. Not at all. You can have my bacon when you pry it from my greasy hands.

[MineralMan]

45. I can't remember the last steak I ate.

I suspect that a lot of people aren't consuming steak at the same level they used to. Our diets are changing.

[dware]

46. Unfortunately, in my chosen profession,

it's hard for me to eat as healthy as I would like, truck stops aren't known for healthy eating, but, I do have a refrigerator and hot plate in my sleeper, so I do try to stock up on healthy food before I hit the road.

[evertonfc]

52. I'm on a plant based diet

but not for moral reasons. I just decided to try it 6 months ago. I could never go vegan. I adore real cheese, yogurts, milk products, ect.

[Doremus]

58. Cheese, yogurt, milk products aren't plant-based. nt

[evertonfc]

60. vegetarians

eat avoid meat. Vegans avoid anything that comes from animals. Vegetarians eat eggs, cheese, ect. I get your point

[Doremus]

66. I know.

It was your reference to plant based that threw me. It's all good.

[MFM008]

62. I rarely eat

Red meat.
Unfortunately i tried veganism but im to poor to afford it.
Seriously.

[flvegan]

76. On DU, it largely doesn't matter.

"Progressives" go figure, right? LOL. Something about bacon and being an idiot.

[Codeine]

82. They'll excoriate climate change denial,

but then turn right around and do the same damned thing because Evul Vegans Gonna Take Muh Whopper!!

[hunter]

107. Earthworms are an invasive species.

Invasive species of earthworms from the suborder Lumbricina have been expanding their range in North America. Their introduction can have marked effects on the nutrient cycles in temperate forests. These earthworms increase the cycling and leaching of nutrients by breaking up decaying organic matter and spreading it into the soil. Since plants native to these northern forests are evolutionarily adapted to the presence of thick layers of decaying organic matter, the introduction of worms can lead to loss of biodiversity as young plants face less nutrient-rich conditions. Some species of trees and other plants may be incapable of surviving such changes in available nutrients. This change in the plant diversity in turn affects other organisms and often leads to increased invasions of other exotic species as well as overall forest decline.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasive_earthworms_of_North_America

[Aussie105]

81. Tried the plant based hamburger.

Does it taste like meat? Probably not, haven't had a cow based hamburger for years.
Doesn't matter, as long as it tastes nice.
Except for an overpowering smoky flavour that lingered, it was ok.

I have been looking for meat replacement 'hamburger' patties in supermarkets, not much there and the prices are astronomical.
Keep trying people, make it tasty - not meat like - and cheap.

Wife and I have gone partly vegetarian, still use milk, yoghurt and cheese. But the bulk purchase of dead cow stopped decades ago.
Don't miss it.
Experimenting with salads, local shop sells mixed leaf, add some parmesan cheese and dressing, makes a cheap and filling meal.

[DFW]

87. I used to like beef, but had to give it up decades ago for health reasons

First it was uric acid build-up, and then it was cholesterol issues. I'll occasionally try a bite of someone else's meat if we're at a restaurant, but consume nowhere near a pound of beef a year. I once had half a bison burger, which is supposedly low in cholesterol, but wasn't impressed. We made the transition to fish, poultry and vegetables rather easily.

[Nature Man]

91. ah, the eternal vanity of homo sapiens

the presumption of eternity in the comma space of natural life.

The presumption that we actually matter in the whole scheme of things: our species needs to understand its place in the universe.

None of this shit actually matters.

[GulfCoast66]

93. Now there's a good way to win an election. Run against the hamburger!

Obviously, that’s not what is being proposed here. But there are things we can do from a policy standpoint that improve the situation. Use tax policy to encourage the eating of farm animals that are consume near where they are raised. Although that is becoming more popular everywhere. We can actually get grass fed Florida beef here now which was unheard of 10 years ago. Ruminates evolved on this planet and we evolved eating them. Trying to change that is pissing into the wind. We are hard-wired to eat meat.

Actually, recent research strongly suggests that had our ancient pre-human ancestors not begun to eat meat we would have not had enough calories in our diet for our massive, energy consuming brain to evolve.

Personally I eat a good amount of venison I kill myself, so except for the 600 miles I drive to shoot the deer I am not eating industrial meat. Plus lots of fish I catch in the gulf. But of course, that involves pulling a boat with an internal combustion engine 60 miles using a truck with and 8 cylinder engine.

Rather than tilting at the windmill of trying to eliminate meat consumption I think we should long term focus on policy that encourages better livestock distribution. Most meat eaten in Florida is shipped from Midwest feedlots. The irony is that Florida raises huge numbers of calves which are shipped to the Midwest to be fed out. Then slaughtered and shipped back. Crazy!

[roamer65]

94. Soylent Green time.

[whistler162]

99. NTSA!

[samnsara]

101. what would happen to all the farms animals if we all went all vegan?

[Farmer-Rick]

102. I would probably die or be severely injured from diabetes if I had to go meatless

Each person is different. And some foods work for some people. We don't all have to eat the same way. In fact what is good for one person can be deadly for another. I know there are vegan low carb eaters but each time I've tried that, my glucose levels start going up, especially when soy is substituted for protein.

I went vagan for 2 years and my weight sky rocketed. I was pre-diabetic and feeling really crappy. Seems I am very sensitive (or not so sensitive actually) to carbohydrates in fruits and vegetables. They spike my glucose levels very rapidly and very high. As long as I'm not eating much in the way of grains, starchy vegis and fruits, I can keep it under control.

But the only way I have found to control it is to eat a lot of meat. Not everyone can tolerate a vegan life style.

That said, humane, natural animal husbandry is a no brainer. It is the only way to address the carbon issues to some extent and keep pastures from turning into deserts.

Pastures use to be pleasant areas for picnicking. Not any more. People over graze as a standard method. They especially over graze cattle. Sheep, free range hog and chicken and even rabbit are better on the environment and better for the pasture. Reducing the amount of pasture raised cattle is a good idea. But some of us can not go vegan.

[dware]

103. Execellent post.

[JCMach1]

110. Go veg if you want for your diet, but don't pretend it will have the same impact of alternative

energy for electricity, vehicles, and industry.