Amazon caving - they're going to NY - AOC chills, knowing she won...

[Dennis Donovan]

Link to tweet

[50 Shades Of Blue]

1. Win-win!

[StClone]

30. She is the future of our party win-win for us

Biden as an old white guy (like me) doesn't get it (but I think I do).

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

84. AOC is why the Democratic Party's future is bright indeed!! A true leader in the making!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[dalton99a]

2. Kudos to her.

[gratuitous]

3. I know she knows better than to hold her breath waiting for that apology

But yeah; like a boss.

[Volaris]

27. 'Like a boss'. In 10 years, i really want her to be Madame Speaker...

Her 'pimp hand' is strong like Nancy's lol!

[Phoenix61]

4. Of course they did.

Governments need to stop paying companies to do business in their area. It’s a suckers move.

[MarcA]

34. +1,000 n/t

[JoeOtterbein]

5. Bingo!

AOC is making America fair again!

[Autumn]

6. There is no reason, none, for any business to be given tax breaks and subsidies to grow

and expand their business. Look at her sitting there. Like a boss.

[Coventina]

7. Reading the thread title, I thought it was about caving in the Amazon basin.

I was confused about the rest of it.

AOC was going to go caving in the Amazon?

I've been grading papers all day and I'm mentally exhausted....

[Blue_true]

21. Well.

You have the weekend to grade papers. I suggest that tonight, you treat yourself to a nice restaurant meal, or eat a pint of your favorite ice cream and drink a glass of your favorite wine. Then take the rest of the night off. That is what I do when mentally exhausted, and I always start the next day sharp as a tack and finish what I started.

[wnylib]

41. A Kahlua sundae.

[Blue_true]

42. Anything, as long as it satisfy the heart.

Sometime we can push ourselves too hard and end up working at 20% efficiency when just taking a reinvigorating break would allow us to solve work related demands with ease.

[Wellstone ruled]

8. Corporations will move to were ever

they find the Talent necessary to function and where the Infrastructure suit their bottom line. This spending billions to attract companies is a pure farce.

[BeyondGeography]

9. Primary her!

[BlueWI]

15. No kidding.

Haters have to take a coffee break.

Congrats to all of us!

[Maven]

10. Well, not exactly.

The deal that Amazon backed out of was a redevelopment of a huge portion of Long Island City in Queens. It would have housed upwards of 25,000 employees on a giant new campus.

This deal is Amazon renting space for about 2,000 employees in a building at an existing development in Manhattan, Hudson Yards. Hudson Yards is owned by Related Companies, which is controlled by Stephen Ross, a Trumper.

Not exactly the victory this article and tweet make it out to be.

P.S. I live in Long Island City and am still glad the Amazon deal didn't happen.

[Crabby Appleton]

32. indeed

[highmindedhavi]

48. 23,000 fewer good paying jobs, no victory

Link said it was actually 1500 jobs, it was originally 25000 jobs.

[Crowman2009]

11. She'll be Speaker of the House someday!

Can't wait!

[brooklynite]

26. Name something she's actually done in Congress...

[Gore1FL]

29. Here are some things

From her first month

https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/03/politics/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-aoc-first-month-in-congress/index.html

Here is a list of Bills she cosponsored:

https://projects.propublica.org/represent/members/O000172-alexandria-ocasio-cortez/bills-sponsored/116

And certainly you've heard of this:

https://www.gp.org/green_new_deal

[brooklynite]

46. The Green New Deal is a phantom piece of aspirational legislation...

As for the other Bills, where are her skills twisting arms and convincing Committee Chairs and fellow members to move them along?

[Gore1FL]

47. You asked someone to name things she has done in congress. I provided a list.

I am not interested in chasing goal posts.

Goodnight.

[greenjar_01]

49. Perfect answer

Well done.

[phylny]

56. Bingo.

[brooklynite]

58. Bernie Sanders is also great at introducing Bills that don't go anywhere...

...again, we're discussing in this subthread the merits of AOC as SPEAKER. I'm looking for some examples of leadership that would merit that consideration.

[Gore1FL]

66. Again, I answered your question.

I am looking for a discussion where the argument isn't tweaked every post in the hopes of still eeking out a point.

Obviously, that isn't here.

[NurseJackie]

74. I think that many fail to understand that there's an important difference...

I think that many fail to understand that there's an important difference between legislative accomplishments and failed or unrealized attempts.

It's quite fair to ask for examples of actual leadership, or dealmaking/negotiating/compromising, or anything at all that would show evidence of success in shepherding any bills through.

Tweeting is not leadership. She's really accomplished nothing that would make me want to give her any sort of serious consideration for being elected Speaker. She has a lot to learn and needs to mature and grow. She's not there yet.

All I'm trying to say is that the Speaker is a position for someone who's earned his/her stripes, who has the battle scars to prove it, who has demonstrable successes, who knows how to unite, who understands the risks of pride and vanity, who is humble and modest, who takes no joy in acting coy and provocative or divisive, who has the knowledge and maturity and wisdom and experience and temperament that the job requires.

[emmaverybo]

79. +10000

[PufPuf23]

37. Why don't you attempt to see AOC in a positive light?

The jabbing at new talent in the Democratic Party by incumbent "moderates" and their base supporters grows old and harms the Party as a whole moving into the future. The Party is better off once the Baby Bombers move into their sunset (and I say that as a voting life long Democrat born in 1953).

[brooklynite]

44. I see people in a positive light when they deserve it...

I responded to someone who suggested that AOC should become Speaker based on 1) something she didn't actually do, and 2) if she had done it might warrant election as Mayor but would say nothing about her abilities in the House. What critical legislation has she produced? What coalition has she formed to win a critical vote? As with Anthony Wiener and Alan Grayson, AOC seems to get plaudits for making fiery speeches that progressives like, but not much else.

[PufPuf23]

53. You do not appear fair then to AOC in your posts at DU

while other pols you defend their every action.

You would find more positive in AOC and spend less time typing in defense of others that occasionally you would question.

What do Weiner and Grayson have to do with AOC? We are better off without them prominent in the party and nation.

AOC has many years to grow into her talent and we are fortunate. Certainly she is not ready yet for a Speakership and in reality talk of that today is weak speculation.

[Big Chief]

75. She said "someday"

Not today... or even next cycle.

AOC is a refreshing change. Name a freshman congressperson whose done more.

[sheshe2]

50. "The Party is better off once the Baby Bombers move into their sunset"

"Baby Bombers"? What the hell is a baby Bomber? So anyone between the age of 55 (pretty young) and 75 is old and in the way and we should just shuffle ourselves out of the way so the youngin's can take over?

So you want Nancy Pelosi 79 to stumble away as she does a stellar job in advancing impeachment of a dictator or Schiff 59 to back off because he is to old and doing an amazing job indicting a terrorist administration. Those that stood and died on Edmond Pettus Bridge fighting for their civil rights should just sit down and shut up. The women that fought and died for their equal rights and a right to their own bodies gave you what you have today. Harvey Milk and Moscone were assassinated for LGBTQ rights. Their right to choose.

Fact is the youngin's would not be where they are today without their elders. They need to learn from the past if they want to make headway into the future.

[PufPuf23]

52. Obviously I typoed Boomers.

You are so frigging superior.

Too bad people that you find so far beneath part of the Democratic Party (and in my case have zero tendency to leave).

If not for the boomer generation of Democratic leadership starting in the 1990, the nation would not be in the mess it is today.

That said I have been a member of the Democratic Party since I could vote and with the exception of a tactical vote for John Anderson in the 1980 GOP POTUS primary in California, have never voted for anyone not a Democrat and I vote.

I was in Berkeley and politically active when Milk and Moscone came to office and were assassinated by Dan White. I was at the street vigil in San Francisco after the murders. You have no right to judge others not knowing their own walk and history.

I am quite impressed with Schiff.

[Locrian]

57. +1,000,000,000 truest statement I've seen on DU in a long while

>>If not for the boomer generation of Democratic leadership starting in the 1990, the nation would not be in the mess it is today.

[brooklynite]

59. If someone here suggested that Bernie Sanders "head off into the sunset", imagine the reaction.

[UniteFightBack]

72. You need to stop bashing Democrats and how dare you blame Dem's of the 90's 'for the mess

we are in TODAY'. Just UGH and I'll stop there since I don't wish to get banned.

[emmaverybo]

80. Bravo.

[sheshe2]

81. Thanks, emmaverybo.

[RandiFan1290]

55. Thank you so much

I agree 100%

[hack89]

60. So Bernie and Biden need to get out of the way for the betterment of the party

Or just certain boomers?

[UniteFightBack]

70. The same could be said about the 'new talent' jabbing at moderates. We need EVERYBODY...got

it...and your comment about boomers moving into the sunset is appalling.

[left-of-center2012]

38. agreed

But she must not be attacked,
or the wrath of god will descend.

[Dennis Donovan]

54. She's only been there 11 months, give her time. n/t

[dhol82]

12. Wonder if they are still going to the same location?

That my big beef with them. The size of their operation at that location is going to make life very difficult for all the people around there. Not even talking about the transportation nightmare that will happen.

[dhol82]

13. Oops, just noticed they are going to Hudson Yards.

It will be a massively scaled down operation. No room there for more.
Transit will still be a nightmare.

[Maven]

14. They are not.

This isn't the same type of deal. See my post above.

The article and tweet are misleading.

[Kurt V.]

16. She's a natural.

[happy feet]

67. A natural self-promoter?

She’s smart, feisty but must learn the trade of being an effective politician, Congress person. Takes experience.

[Kurt V.]

87. She's already there.

[Chicago1980]

17. They should have picked Chicago anyway.

Would have been much better off.

[mopinko]

18. yup. we could have absorbed them easily.

[George II]

19. They didn't "cave", these were two entirely different plans for Amazon that they were negotiating...

....simultaneously.

This is an office facility in Manhattan in an existing building. They're merely going to renovated the space and move in like dozens of other businesses do every year. It's going to provide about 2,000 jobs. It was already in the works before they pulled out of the Queens project.

The other one was a large development in a run down area of western Queens near the Queensbridge Houses (you know, the largest public housing development in North America, 60% minority that weren't invited to the big rally a couple of months ago) that would created more than 25,000 jobs, upgraded the area, provided billions of dollars in revenue to the State, City, and local businesses.

A HUGE lost to Queens, the city, and the state. Nothing to brag about or be smug about.

[Crabby Appleton]

36. I agree. nt

[reACTIONary]

76. Thanks for a more exact, accurate characterization. nt

[Blue_true]

20. Can't say that I always agree with her, but I love her spirit and determination. nt

[DanieRains]

22. Amazon Should Be Paying Us To Not Break Them Up And To Help The Small Businesses They Destroy

Like that is gonna happen.

[Captain Zero]

23. Amazon. Ha. Looks like they kept Indiana on the list until.

An OSHA finding for a $27k safety violation resulting in a warehouse death got reduced by our Governor to a stern warning. Oh, and GOP governor Eric Holcomb only got a $1k campaign donation out of it. No grifting skills at all.

Hoosier workers lives go cheap when the GOP AND Amazon team up !!

Any place Amazon has a warehouse, workers need to monitor themselves for a safe work environment and not allow themselves to be assigned to a task for which they have not been trained.

[RelativelyJones]

24. Looking at the tweet you would think Amazon was bringing the 25,000 jobs to LIC anyway, just

without the $3 billion in subsidies. But that is not what is happening at all.

[brooklynite]

25. Before you start celebrating.....

Link to tweet

[Hoyt]

28. One really has to dig for the truth nowadays, even here.

[Crabby Appleton]

31. Actually very typical for "news" around here

[AllyCat]

64. Here in Wisconsin, we paid one company $4B to

Produce few jobs. Foxconn promised 13,000 good paying jobs to make high end flat screens. Now they have produced a couple hundred jobs, hired all the technical minds from China, and are making robotic coffee machines for airports that will take away more jobs.

So when someone complains about giving huge corporations a bunch of money to move into a community, I don’t think it is worth it.

[Captain Stern]

33. I don't understand this post.

First of all, Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez didn't actually do anything to stop Amazon from moving their HQ there. She just spoke out against it, and the stipulations of the deal, and then Amazon pulled out. Maybe what she said had something to do with it, maybe it didn't.

Now, Amazon is locating some stuff there that's not anywhere near what their HQ would have been....and that's an 'I told you so' moment? No. It's not.

This is more like Starbucks's saying they are going to move their HQ to my town, then instead of doing that, they just opened another Starbucks.

[moondust]

35. The new plan

presumably won't completely disrupt a sizable chunk of the city by gentrifying, whacking the cost of living, and displacing many of the current residents. ???

[left-of-center2012]

39. I suspect she will be 'primaried' when she runs for re-election

You know that old saying:
"Most politics is local."

[brooklynite]

45. She already has three Democratic opponents...

I wonder how many people here will remember that they insisted that DCCC not put a finger on the scale to protect incumbents?

[warmfeet]

40. Future POTUS?

She has my vote.

[UniteFightBack]

71. Oh yeah she'll be able to win the swing states with ease.

[lapucelle]

43. Amazon is not building a headquarters in Queens. It's leasing new office space in Manhattan.

So no, Amazon did not cave.

[George II]

62. NYT did an article on this back in March. See my post #61 below.

[greenjar_01]

51. Original Amazon deal was the equivalent of a crooked stadium deal

AOC was completely 100% correct to reject it and advocate rejecting it. It was a straight up theft.

This Amazon commitment is no doubt far smaller than their absurdist promises in Queens, but it shows that Amazon needs a NYC facility more than NYC needs to pay them through the nose to bring phantom jobs. No incentive. No tax breaks. Nothing. You want Hudson Yards? Fine. Play like the local bodega instead of getting paid out by New Yorkers for bullshit.

A lot of folks upthread huffing about the difference between the LIC highway robbery and the Hudson Yards modest buy. But the Hudson Yards modest buy didn't cost New Yorkers anything, and the LIC deal was just gassing your whole head up. I don't always agree with AOC, but she's 100% correct here, and the haters gonna hafta stay mad.

[AllyCat]

65. Hear, hear!

[lapucelle]

68. Amazon is renting office space. They are neither buying nor building.

Had they built the HQ2, there would have been thousands of jobs created and the residents of the largest public housing project in the US would have found themselves living in a much better, revitalized neighborhood.

Manhattan high end real estate dealers reap the benefits of the lease. The people of Queens get nothing.

[Kaiserguy]

69. Maybe they would have gotten a better place to live.

On the other hand when stuff like this happens they don't want the poor in the new upscale neighborhood most of the time. So they start buying up everything that they can and send the poor packing.

[George II]

73. That is simply not true. Other than a normal state grant given to ALL new businesses in NYS....

....they would have gotten nothing. What would have happened is they would have paid their normal city and state taxes and, if they met certain criteria they would get a rebate of some taxes already paid.

Look at it like buying a new car with a $1000 rebate. You pay the full price of the car and then a month or two later the manufacturer gives you $1000 back. You still paid $20000 for the car less $1000.

Amazon would have spent lots of money on upgrading the local subway station, surrounding roadways, and other infrastructure.

Plus, not figured into the benefit to the state and city are payroll taxes paid by the 25,000 new employees, the increase revenue of the stores, restaurants, etc. in the area that would have been frequented by those thousands of new employees, lots of other benefits to the area. Now, if they didn't hire 25,000 people they wouldn't have gotten as much of a rebate. That's how the deal worked, unfortunately people didn't stop to think about that.

That was a HUGE loss to the city and state and the local businesses.

As for the Hudson Yards development, the City and State spent roughly $8 billion to improve the area where it was built, including extending the #7 Flushing Line at a cost of billions.

Finally, Amazon is merely leasing space in Hudson Yards, they can pick up and leave any time they want.

[George II]

61. Amazon didn't "cave", NYS and NYC lost. More on this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/09/nyregion/hudson-yards-new-york-tax-breaks.html

Amazon’s Tax Breaks and Incentives Were Big. Hudson Yards’ Are Bigger.

At Hudson Yards, the expansive real estate development that is about to open in Manhattan, seven floors of retail are occupied by Fendi, Dior, Neiman Marcus and other high-end shops. Major corporations, including WarnerMedia and L’Oreal USA, will have their headquarters there. In the luxury residential buildings, one-bedroom apartments will rent for at least $5,200 a month — or you can buy a two-floor penthouse condo for $32 million.

All thanks to the help of taxpayers.

New York was riveted for weeks by a debate over whether Amazon should receive $3 billion in tax breaks and other incentives in return for setting up a headquarters in Queens and creating 25,000 jobs. But with far less public attention, the city government has for more than a decade been funneling even more aid to Hudson Yards, a 28-acre complex of gleaming office buildings and luxury residential towers that is one of the nation’s biggest real estate projects in recent years.

In all, the tax breaks and other government assistance for Hudson Yards have reached nearly $6 billion, according to public records and a recent analysis by the New School.

The city spent about $2.4 billion to extend the No. 7 subway line to Hudson Yards and set aside $1.2 billion for about four acres of parks and open spaces called Hudson Park and Boulevard. The City Council stepped up to pay $359 million in interest payments on bonds when revenue from the development, which was supposed to cover the tab, fell short of projections.

[Odoreida]

63. A victory for union busting n/t

[marybourg]

77. I was and still am against the Amazon deal, but this post is completely misleading.

They added 1500 employees to the 8000 they already had in N.Y. In leased space. No new headquarters.

Here is the link that was missing in the post:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/06/nyregion/amazon-hudson-yards.html?action=click&module=Well&pgtype=Homepage&section=New%20York

[emmaverybo]

78. Not haters. People who had a different view, your constituents. You still lost lots and

lots of jobs and money existing businesses in the area would have made. The smugness does not help the folks you lost for.

[sheshe2]

83. +1

[NurseJackie]

85. "The smugness does not help the folks you lost for."

The smugness does not help the folks you lost for.

Well said. It was a rather smug thing to say.

Not haters. People who had a different view, your constituents.

While it may have been personally satisfying for her to take that attitude, it certainly did nothing to improve my opinion of her. It was an amateurish and beginner's mistake. It's unclear to me why she'd do that. What good purpose does it serve? How does it promote unity?

[brooklynite]

86. How many people applauding AOC accomplishment know that Hudson Yards is a huge public subsidy site?

All those private towers (including the one Amazon is moving into) we were built on top of our publicly owned rail yards.