A self-driving truck delivered butter from California to Pennsylvania in three days

[redqueen]

...

How long will it be before self-driving trucks are delivering goods regularly across the nation’s highways? Kerrigan thinks it’s “a few years out.”

Dan Ives, managing director of equity research for Wedbush Securities, predicts there will be quite a few autonomous freight-delivery pilots in 2020 and 2021, with the beginning of a commercial rollout in 2022. Like other experts, he believes the trucking industry will be the first to adopt autonomous technology on a mass scale.

The timeline will depend on regulations, which vary state to state, he said.

About 10 to 15 companies nationwide are working on autonomous freight delivery, Ives said. That includes San Francisco-based self-driving truck startup Embark Trucks, which last year completed a five-day, 2,400-mile cross-country trip. But that truck carried no freight.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/12/10/a-self-driving-truck-delivered-butter-from-california-to-pennsylvania-in-three-days/amp/

[ecstatic]

1. I don't like that.

I guess I'm regressive on this topic. I don't want unmanned 3 ton vehicles next to me on the highway.

[redqueen]

8. During this cross-country trip there were no disengagements.

No issues at all which required the intervention of a human. The technology is getting extremely good, extremely fast.

[Baitball Blogger]

113. What happens when someone writes a "save the load" override in the software?

It will happen some day.

[cwydro]

17. I agree.

What could possibly go wrong?

[Sapient Donkey]

22. What could go wrong is a reasonable question to ask, and it's one that

the engineers working on these constantly ask themselves. In addition to asking what could go wrong with self-driving vehicles, it's also a good idea to ask what will not go wrong that could go wrong with non-automated vehicles. So, really it's just asking what are the pro and cons of each, and with the cons how can we take steps to mitigate or eliminate them

,',;

[redqueen]

28. They're actually aiming to make these safer than a human driver.

Part of their motivation is reducing accidents.

[Demonaut]

47. as long as a human rides along, losing jobs at the expense of progress is a losing battle

[Recursion]

57. I was just saying that to my blacksmith the other day

He was fixing my scythe so I could go thresh wheat.

[Vinnie From Indy]

76. LOL

Cheers!

[Demonaut]

136. I think there's an app for that

[A HERETIC I AM]

154. Just shows how out of touch you are!

A scythe isn't used to thresh wheat, it is used to reap.

See if your blacksmith has one of these handy;




Or you can do your threshing by hand, and follow that up by winnowing.

All kidding aside, there were farm worker riots in England over the introduction of mechanical threshers;


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swing_Riots

[redqueen]

63. True, they wouldn't invest so much $ development if that were the case

The goal is remote emergency operators who can take over if required when signalled by the AI about an issue. They handle the issue then the AI takes over again after.

[Ohiogal]

77. Those jobs won't be good paying union trucker jobs, though

[A HERETIC I AM]

155. Most trucking jobs ARE NOT "good paying union trucker jobs" though.

The idea that most truckers are union is a myth. Only 2% of the 3.5 million tractor trailer drivers in this country belong to a union.

[Ohiogal]

158. Sorry, that wasn't what I meant!

I do realize most trucking jobs nowadays are non union.

[A HERETIC I AM]

159. Fair enough.

[cbdo2007]

84. Progress creates new jobs in new industries.

Tens of millions of Americans work in jobs right now in industries that weren't around 20-30 years ago, yet nobody here is complaining about progress there, lol.

[Demonaut]

85. sure, no one complains about driving for uber, or amazon warehouse workers, or grubhub delivery

Last edited Wed Dec 11, 2019, 12:05 PM - Edit history (1)

drivers...no one is complaining..get a grip

[cbdo2007]

89. Wow, that is a pretty short sighted view of progress...truck drivers to delivery drivers

In just my office here there are hundreds of people in new roles and careers that didn't exist 20 years ago. Business Intelligence is a completely new industry that is still in its infancy and employs hundreds of thousands of people even WITH a growing amount of AI and Machine Learning. Project Management, Product Management, Marketing have all gone through major shifts and specializations in the past 20 years. Even Human Resources has evolved into multiple roles that used to just be handled by one person until about 10 years ago.

Outside of corporate America, even without a degree there are MILLIONS of growing roles in pharmacy, doctors offices, billing and coding.

There are many, many more in all areas of the workforce....construction, planning, yes warehouses, etc.

Workforce evolution has been happening since the beginning of jobs and will happen well off into the future, yet for some reason you seem to be the only person who is thinking it is a surprise development.

[Demonaut]

92. I'm not arguing that progress is a bad thing but some innovations have negative consequences

would you agree that Amazon had a significant impact on brick and mortar stores, especially when consumers were not taxed for their purchases, they are now but for most of Amazon's history they did not charge tax.

[cbdo2007]

107. Yes, they definitely did have an impact, and now many b&m stores have evolved to compete...

by offering grocery delivery, pick-up services, and more services, which Amazon can't compete with. Our local Target has added many jobs for their new pick-up service, which is available in minutes and they bring stuff right out to your car. Even Amazon is just using regular people in their cars now to deliver their products rather than relying on the big delivery companies.

I'm not arguing that all innovations are positive...just that innovation is always going to happen and keep moving forward and the earlier people can adapt to that the better off they will be. If you are a truck driver right now, you can either complain about things changing and wait to lose your job, or you can start looking around out there at some of the new options available and update your 5 year plan. I have had to completely change industries/careers about every 10 years in my professional life, and probably will again in the next 8-10 years again to stay relevant in the work force.

[redqueen]

94. Are you sure about this?

"Outside of corporate America, even without a degree there are MILLIONS of growing roles in pharmacy, doctors offices, billing and coding."

I know people who have pharmacy certifications and can't find work.

Not sure about doctor office jobs but I doubt there are enough to make up for all the jobs that are being automated.

[Hangingon]

194. As Each new job area grows, it becomes a new target for AI.

Are all workers so easily retrained to the new jobs. I would hate to be close to retirement and hear that I had been obsoleted. My father was let go in a plant closing 4 years before retirement. It made a huge difference in retirement income.

[Nature Man]

105. Newt Gingrich's '90s premonition of

a nation of subcontractors instead of employees.

[Recursion]

56. Probably less than currently goes wrong with human drivers

1.2 million road deaths on the year, nearly all of them caused by a human driver.

[soryang]

121. An OTR standard limit is 40 tons gross weight

it's a lot easier to drive with an unloaded trailer. braking, acceleration, and turning limits are much different.

[lame54]

2. Wait a minute...

That is a lot of states

Did they get legal authorization from all of them?

[redqueen]

5. Yes of course - this has been going on for a while now.

These are getting more and more common. The profit possibilities are immense.

[walkingman]

3. I'll be glad when we get these in Texas. We have some of the worst drivers in the nation. It has got

to be safer in the long run.

[redqueen]

7. We've had similar tests going on in Texas.

In a few years we'll start seeing trucks chaining together on the freeway. Thank goodness cause when you've got one or two going slow and some marginally faster ones trying to get around them it causes everyone else to deal with the backups.

[Adsos Letter]

34. You have described practically every trip I've made on I-5

I drive practically the length of California on a regular basis. The behavior you describe is a major pita considering I-5 carries a huge amount of traffic, but is only two lanes in each direction.

[redqueen]

40. The AI driven trucks will chain together

To maximize fuel efficiency. So at least that's one upside

[pangaia]

54. what does chain together mean?

[Recursion]

62. One truck leads and the several others follow in its draft

It decreases the total fuel burned considerably. Human drivers do it now, but it can be dangerous.

[doc03]

153. How can you pass them on a secondary road o r make a left hand turn? Are they programmed to yield to

emergency vehicles?

[A HERETIC I AM]

157. "Human drivers do it now, but it can be dangerous."

Ummmm...no....no they don't. Not human truck drivers, anyway.

With all due respect, that just doesn't happen. When you see two or more tractor trailers running nose to tail, and I mean close enough to take actual advantage of the slipstream created by the first one, it is a fluke, it isn't planned, and not something that lasts for very long. Also, it is not something that virtually ANY Highway Patrol officer will tolerate.

Run like that for a long ways and you are going to get a ticket for Following Too Closely.

It's tailgating, plain and simple and it is illegal.

It USED to be common where a number of trucks would run together in close proximity (the old "convoy" idea) but even that has actively been discouraged since the 70's.

[Nature Man]

192. If you monitor CB radio

drivers will call someone who follows too closely a "non-driving motherfucker" or something similar.

Usually Schneider, JB Hunt, or other carriers that rely heavily on driving school graduate drivers make mistakes like these.

[A HERETIC I AM]

200. I haven't listened to a CB radio in 6 years

I found it had become utterly useless back then and I'm sure it hasn't improved!

There was a time when it was useful, and I had it on virtually constantly, but those days are long gone.

As far as the "non-driving motherfucker" is concerned, they're also known as "Steering Wheel Holders".

[Nature Man]

206. 10-4

back

[Hangingon]

193. I don't think it is unusual.

Multi truck convoys with lead and trail vehicles are more common than I would like. These trucks frequently carry wind generator blades and tower sections or precast concrete bridge/overpass beams. On secondary roads they create long trails of cars. They are dangerous to pass.

[A HERETIC I AM]

201. The circumstance that the Poster Recursion mentioned above is different ...

from what you are talking about.

Multi truck convoys with lead and trail vehicles are more common than I would like. These trucks frequently carry wind generator blades and tower sections or precast concrete bridge/overpass beams.

Sure, but that sort of "convoy" is not running in such a way as to take advantage of the slipstream created by the lead truck.

THAT is the concept to which I responded and to which Recursion made mention.

So called "Convoys" of large items like turbine blades and the like are typically formed to minimize traffic interruption, requiring fewer police escort vehicles and other pilot cars. Not to mention the desire to have all that equipment show up at the jobsite together.

[Hangingon]

203. However you describe them, they are a problem for other drivers

[DiverDave]

50. Right, it's

The truck drivers fault . It always is.
I-5 in California is 55 for trucks. And you can go 70?
Have you ever bought products in a store? Online?
A truck brought it.
You think stuff gets there by magic?
This is not safe, and people will die, all so trucking companies can make more profits.
You okay with that?

[FM123]

4. Andrew Yang is spot on when he says that

self-driving truck technology is rapidly becoming sophisticated enough to replace these drivers, and the economy is not prepared to absorb the loss of so many jobs.

[Sherman A1]

12. Precisely

he is way ahead of the curve on this and many other topics.

[SterlingPound]

23. He is pro UBI isn' He?

i think i remember he is.

[Sherman A1]

29. Yes, and here is a link to his policy proposal on the topic of UBI

https://www.yang2020.com/policies/the-freedom-dividend/

[lunasun]

15. +All the "robot" jobs . People don't see it . Although I do have to say at my kids' high school they

had to for career choice counseling look at forecasts on if the career they were picking was going to be impacted by AI and what percentage of job loss due to all new technology was predicted for the next X years so at least they can face reality

[redqueen]

16. I agree of course.

I'd like for us to be proactive on this.

[USALiberal]

69. ATMs, Self service gas pumps, etc. You can't stop technology. Nt

[Jose Garcia]

120. There used to be 100,000 telephone operators in the US

In 2012, there were less than 14,000.

[redqueen]

126. You may want to check out the article in the post linked below

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=12770427

[JonLP24]

142. I heard from a truck driver there are more immediate problems

In the trucking industry than automation. I can't remember the details but the difference between non union & union was mentioned.

[ripcord]

162. Trucking is having a hard year

Companies are failing like crazy, Celadon just went under stranding 4000 drivers around the country. Most were given orders to park their trucks and then they were on their own, of course no more funds, including pay were coming from the company. Luckily other trucking companies stepped up, offering the former Celadon drivers rides, bus tickets and job offers, this is a hard thing right before the holidays.

[Anon-C]

202. +1000

[A HERETIC I AM]

163. As someone who has been a truck driver for most of my adult life, allow me to fill in the blanks....

or at least a couple of them.

As a group, truck drivers have not had a raise outside of inflation in over 30 years. In fact, pay has gone backwards, on average.

When I first started driving OTR in 1987, the going rate for an experienced driver was $0.25 per mile. Plug that into an inflation calculator and that twenty five cents is worth around $0.52 today. How many OTR companies are starting experienced drivers at fifty two cents a mile? Not very many.

The industry is not attracting enough younger people to fill the void being left by an aging workforce. I'm 60 and I head to work in about 45 minutes to do my 10 hour shift at a yard with about 200 drivers on the board. The number of those 200 who are younger than 35 is tiny. So if nothing else, self driving trucks will fill that void, but I hope I'm dead before they tell me I'm being replaced by automation.

I have to work more than 55 hours a week in order to take home $1000. Trucking in one of the few professions where working a 60 hour week is not only commonplace, but expected.

[zaj]

6. Big #MAGA Suprise....All truck driving jobs will die in 10 years

This time it's not Trump's fault, it's just normal innovation.

But can you imagine the social hate that will follow the death of the largest employment sector for non-college educated white men.

[Doremus]

9. Another social upheaval we need a strong leader to prepare for NOW, not wait for it to happen. nt

[Sherman A1]

13. Agreed

and I believe that leader is Andrew Yang who seems to be about 3 steps ahead of everyone else on this and many other topics.

[Newest Reality]

14. Agreed!

No more too little too late. We dangle by threads already.

[Kaleva]

93. Trucking companies are having a hard time finding drivers.

[redqueen]

95. It's a hard job. Many don't realize how hard.

This is another factor that's pushing companies to automate.

[lame54]

99. How do they refuel?

[zaj]

111. They will build a network of refiling stations

That are staffed at first, then automated. Ultimately they will all be electric vehicles, with fast charging stations and/or swappable batteries.

[soryang]

123. right, how do they...

hook, unhook, lower the gear, drop the trailer, open and close the doors, etc.

There is an infrastructure that can accommodate these limitations, it is mostly available at major railheads and ports. It is not available at the standard warehouses operated by the distribution giants like Walmart, Amazon, UPS, etc. All of these would have to be modified in some ways. Of course yard jockeys could do a lot of this at the terminal or warehouse if the trailer rig is not modular, that is a container on a bed. At these typical warehouse or distribution center destinations the yard jockeys would have to take over.

At the retail level this seems unlikely currently.

[KentuckyWoman]

10. I feel for Truck drivers.

They are being told they are unnecessary. Which is flat out not true. Professional truck drivers do a hell of a lot more than just get the trailer from point A to point B.

One more half decent paying job that does not require college is being killed off by the profits over people crowd.
Double bonus. Many truckers are union members - they get to weaken another union too.

[redqueen]

24. Have you seen the Frontline episode called In the age of AI?

It is a must-see.

They talk to some truckers about this.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212700903

[Yavin4]

11. How is this tech any different from previous job killing tech?

Word Processing software killed millions of secretary jobs. Spreadsheets and Databases killed bookeeping jobs. Travel websites killed travel agency jobs. Yes, there was a time when you went to a travel agency to book your trips.

Why the panic about self-driving trucks when we've seen tech already destroy hundreds of industries and millions of jobs?

[ecstatic]

19. Probably because this only benefits corporations? At least the other tech makes

all of our lives easier. How will self-driving trucks help regular consumers? Will the cost of products delivered by these trucks go down? Will wages go up for the handful of humans who will be working in stores? I think we know the answer to both of those questions.

Once again, we're watching in real time as a major change is being forced through that will harm a lot of the middle class.

[Recursion]

58. If you have it, a truck brought it to you

If trucks are cheaper, more fuel efficient, and safer, that has multiple benefits for everybody except people who drive trucks.

[Bettie]

78. What benefit will it have to consumers?

Will prices go down? Will workers be paid more?

Nope and nope.

The prices will continue to increase and the rich will have larger investment accounts.

Meanwhile, there will be fewer jobs available for people.

[Recursion]

80. Yes to both

Food and clothing -- goods in general -- are much, much cheaper than they were 30 years ago, and that trend is going to continue.

Workers make more than they did 30 years ago, and that trend is going to continue.

[redqueen]

90. I disagree - the trend shows more low wage jobs.

And fewer high wage jobs, and no middle class jobs.

[appalachiablue]

166. +1 True

[ecstatic]

82. We don't live in a vacuum. My job has been secure

for many, many years, but when everyone else lost their jobs and homes, guess whose home value plummeted alongside everyone else's?

This is also the reason I don't support a dramatic, overnight shift in healthcare. Too many people will be unemployed.

[redqueen]

20. The jobs being created are fewer and either high or low pay.

Which means fewer middle class jobs.

More details in the article linked here.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212764383

[DiverDave]

49. Panic?

When that road train of computer driven missiles runs over YOU or your loved ones, what will you say then?
Acceptable losses, look it up. All for profits.
You are delusional if you think this is safe.

[Yavin4]

67. I'd rather take my chances with computer driven cars and trucks than

sleepy or distracted human drivers.

[Johnny2X2X]

204. This is the truth of it

If human drivers driving a 10 millions miles cause 10 accidents and automated driven trucks cause 5 accidents, it will be twice as safe. Doesn't mean there still won't be fatal accidents, just less of them. And where it will get bad press is when an automated truck causes and accident that a human wouldn't have, which will happen too.

[Yavin4]

205. Human beings cannot stop texting.

I bump into people all of the time just walking down the street. I cannot imagine these same people behind the wheel.

[Mariana]

98. I don't have to imagine what it feels like

to have a loved one killed in a road accident.

[DiverDave]

147. I am very sorry to hear

That.
That is my nightmare. I have driven a truck since 93.
And not one ticket or accident.
I am a cautious, careful driver. I know that isn't
Always the case.

[Revanchist]

137. Opposed to a truck driven by a human?

My MIL was rear ended by a big rig totaled her car but she was okay. I'd bet dollars to donuts that an AI vehicle would have avoided that type of accident.

[DiverDave]

148. Sorry to hear that.

Are you aware that we can't stop on a dime?
I cannot count the times cars have rushed up to
cut in front of me to slam on the brakes to turn.
You think a computer will change the laws of physics?
And btw, people will hack the systems, causing more deaths.
It is not a safe option. People will be injured and killed for profits.
I'm not okay with that.

[Revanchist]

180. She was driving straight on the highway

So either the trucker wasn't having long blinks or had his face in his phone.

[lame54]

102. Zombie cars scare people

[tonedevil]

134. I'm more afraid of...

cars being driven by Zombies.

[New Breed Leader]

171. I'm more afraid of

The loss of jobs leading to a tumbling economy and mass unemployment and homelessness.

But, progress or whatever

[Nature Man]

18. That'll be cool when the computer controlled driving software and hardware

stops to help a stranded motorist or flash signal lights to let you know when it's safe to pass.

[redqueen]

26. The world is changing, and the speed of those chances is going to increase.

Constantly, and increasingly.

It's called the knee of the curve. The next ten years will be something to see.

[Nature Man]

103. the world has always been changing

change is a constant. New doesn't mean better though.

[redqueen]

108. What I am pointing out is the speed at which things change.

AI is revolutionizing analytical processes. As the application for this technology spreads, the rate of change is going to increase dramatically.

[Blue_true]

145. My guess is special lanes will be built for self driving trucks over interstates and

State highways. If a passenger vehicle is in those lanes, the motorist would be at fault and should be at fault if anything happens.

[safeinOhio]

21. Local Walmart will close

for 8 hrs on Christmas Day so both cashiers can spend time with family.

[redqueen]

25. *rueful laugh*

[doc03]

156. One thing about self checkout I never had the computer have to call

the manager to figure out how to give change. A couple weeks ago the cashier at McDonald's owed me 20 cents, she discovers she is out of dimes. Honestly she picks up a handful of nickles and studies them for like 15 seconds trying to figure how many of them makes 20 cents. I thought she was going to have to call for help.

[RT Atlanta]

27. they'd never make Smokey and Bandit with driverless trucks....

just sayin'

[csziggy]

35. May be it will be Cars 10 - Smokey and the Bandit

Pixar Robocopcars versus Pixar Mac Trucks

[DUar17]

30. I wonder if Amazon is investing into this?

because if/when they switch to it then will the USPS be the next job killer?

[Hermit-The-Prog]

31. I'm avoiding highways more and more

The same egotistical asswipes who promise secure computers, secure smart phones, secure smart tvs, secure smart appliances, secure data storage, and secure government networks are the same ones writing the software for self-driving vehicles.

See also, 737 Max.

[USALiberal]

70. Lol, so you want no software, but your on the DU? Nt

[Hermit-The-Prog]

87. Lol, so you think driving and chatting are the same?

[USALiberal]

91. I think software is everywhere, you can't avoid it. Nt

[Hermit-The-Prog]

97. IOW, let us welcome our new buggy overlords on the highway

[USALiberal]

100. 40,000 traffic deaths in 2018. So that seems ok I guess. Nt

[Hermit-The-Prog]

125. your false dichotomy is noted

[tonedevil]

122. Is there a reason...

you prefer to have a human at the wheel when you get struck by a vehicle? Or had vehicular accidents caused by human error escaped your attention?

[Hermit-The-Prog]

127. when the software can be proven safe as truckers, get back to me

Driving the highway with humans is not a simple matter.

[tonedevil]

129. As this article illustrates...

there are already autonomous trucks on the road proving exactly that. I may miss you with the proof since I'm not producing any of it and autonomous vehicles are going to be driving around with or without your permission.

[Nature Man]

116. Where did that person say or imply they "want no software?"

[madinmaryland]

144. Uhm. Having a 30 ton truck plow into a car is just slightly differen

Than DU getting hacked. Just sayin. Why do u think they still keep two HUMANS in the cockpit on airlines, even though they are almost completely automated.

[USALiberal]

146. Well, 40,000 die EVERY YEAR with humans at the wheel! Get it yet? nt

[radius777]

79. +1. People have a false sense of what computers are,

which is glorified calculators that merely process a program that can have millions of lines of code that is often riddled with bugs and design flaws. The tech industry is also ruled by corrupt and monopolistic forces.

[USALiberal]

101. Lol, ok! Nt

[redqueen]

124. You may want to check out the linked episode of Frontline

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=12770427

[Captain Zero]

32. They are not worried about butter getting high jacked?

I wouldn't put iMacs and IPads on that truck.

[awesomerwb1]

189. Robocops

[trof]

33. Someone said they don't have to be perfect drivers...

just better than humans.
And they already are.
They don't text, or talk, or drink (booze), or get angry, or become distracted.
And they work 24/7.
No rest time.

Welcome to The Brave New World.
Next: Airplanes.
Not in my lifetime. I'm 78.
But if you're in your 40s I bet you'll see it.

[redqueen]

41. I'm 50 and I expect to see it. I give it 10 years max for trucks.

Planes I dunno.

[pangaia]

55. many commercial aircraft can already take off, land and come to a stop basically unaided

[Recursion]

59. I was just coming here to say that

40 years ago a 747 had a cabin crew of 3. Now it's 2, because the flight engineer ended up not actually doing anything. The 787 and the A380 can both take off and land without a human doing anything.

[trof]

139. Been there, done that.

I was flying a TWA Lockheed L-1011.

"

Landed mid 1980s (35 YEARS AGO!) at London Heathrow, zero ceiling, zero visibility.
Autopilot all the way.
It's the only way the aircraft was FAA authorized to land zero-zero.
Nosewheel tracked the centerline of the runway until we came to a complete stop.
Had to get a 'Follow Me' truck to lead us to the gate.
We were the only aircraft to land at Heathrow that morning.
You can be sure I told my passengers that.

[pangaia]

140. Wonderful story.....

[The Figment]

36. Only if they build "Autonomous Only Highways"

The AI Trucks may be better than human driven trucks but are they taking into account all of the 4-wheelers that are out there...it will take 15-20 years at least for all of the current human driven vehicles to run thru their lifespan and in that time I see lots of "human driven car/AI Truck crashes.
Do these AI vehicles drive well in Fog/Snow/Heavy Rain? How about mechanical failure, blown tires,brakes going out,(like the recent truck crash in Denver)?

As one who has held licenses for NHRA 6.50 Sec or slower/SCCA class 1 /CLASS A with hazmat all I can say is...

OH HELL NO!

[redqueen]

42. The only weather condition they have an issue with is snow.

For hazards, there will be a call center type setup with remote drivers. If a truck has an issue, it signals the controllers, they take over till the issue is resolved and then the AI resumes control.

This documentary is a must watch.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212700903

[Mariana]

43. "...in that time I see lots of "human driven car/AI Truck crashes."

Do you envision the AI being at fault for most of those crashes, or the human drivers?

[The Figment]

44. The humans

Most car/truck crashes (80 percent)are the automobile drivers fault...brake checking,(not allowing enough distance for the truck to stop or change lanes) improper lane changes,crowding (cutting the truck off), speeding, inattention ( using the phone/texting) or going too fast for road conditions.

[USALiberal]

71. Technology happens and you cannot stop it! Nt

[aidbo]

37. they probably could have gotten butter from somewhere a lot closer than California

[rickford66]

39. Are they vulnerable to hijacking ?

edit:

How do they gas up ?

[Buns_of_Fire]

48. Gassing up? That's where humans become useful again...

[eppur_se_muova]

45. First self-driving truck fatality in 3 ... 2 ...

First massive lawsuit over whether or not the software is to blame -- about a millilsecond after that. Programmers vs lawyers ? Should be a real circus, and last for years.

[Recursion]

60. 1.2 million road deaths every year

I'm less interested in the first autonomous vehicle death than I am in the last non-autonomous vehicle death.

[USALiberal]

72. +1000, amazing how people don't get this! Nt

[lame54]

104. Apparently you are...

Because it's already happened

[Recursion]

106. Not from a long-haul truck

There have been deaths from

1. Drivers slamming into autonomous cars, and
2. Pedestrians leaping out in front of autonomous cars

We haven't had an actual honest-to-God traffic accident from an autonomous vehicle yet, nor anything from a long-haul truck.

[lame54]

110. False...

A car killed a civilian then the company darkened the video to try to make it look like the person was too dark to see

Those 1.2 mil were not just from trucks

[Recursion]

114. You mean the woman who dived out in front of the car? (nt)

[lame54]

117. No...

Dont know that story

[Recursion]

118. I think it's the one you're talking about. (nt)

[lame54]

119. It's definitely not...

Besides
That would not excuse the company falsifying evidence

[JonLP24]

143. That one is on Arizona

The reason why there are self driving cars here because the GOP governor & legislature deregulated the industry to attract self driving cars.

I hope other states learn from Arizona's example.

[Mariana]

133. Link to that story, please? nt.

[lame54]

135. Actually...

Can't find it

I definitely saw the report with the side by side vids
1 light 1 darkened

Now im thinking it was a bs report

Lots of articles on uber/arizona death
But no mention of tampering

But I 100% saw it when the story was current

So many damn lies it's hard to keep up

[greyl]

46. Great, but I think they can make butter in damn Pennsylvania. nt

[democratisphere]

51. WTF will happen when there are no jobs left because of automation,

robotics and artificial intelligence. That day is coming much sooner than you think!

[Sherman A1]

52. Precisely

This is why we need to take seriously the points made by Andrew Yang https://www.yang2020.com/policies/the-freedom-dividend/

[Recursion]

61. What will all those people who thresh wheat every fall do?

The answer turned out to be, they moved to the cities, got higher paying jobs, and fundamentally changed civilization.

[redqueen]

66. True, but anyone expecting that is going to happen again is not paying attention.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=12770427

[democratisphere]

68. The people that live in the cities will now be replaced by the

previously mentioned devices. The remaining human jobs are very soon going to be eliminated.

[Recursion]

74. Plumber-bot is a long way off. Home-health-aide-bot even farther

We will still pay each other to do things. A social dividend just makes that an easier transition than the one off the farms was.

[Doremus]

88. Key word is "transition." It can be a smooth one or, with corporatists in charge,

it will be tumultuous, chaotic and painful for most all of us.

People don't always realize how connected and dependent we are on each other. When workers have less discretionary income they consume less, stores sell less, manufacturers make less and all of the jobs along the way, and the jobs connected to THOSE jobs, are reduced or eliminated. I have a mom and pop shop in the rust belt. We've been living this dynamic for years. I can't imagine it getting worse but I know it's going to.

[redqueen]

96. Here's my favorite take on this.

[Recursion]

109. Bingo

The post-scarcity society can be a utopia or absolute hell. It depends on decisions we make now.

[Doremus]

131. Well, we can't depend on them to share it willingly.

At some point we're going to have to hit the streets. Question is when?

[redqueen]

132. I disagree that protests are the best method.

I prefer the route Yang js proposing.

[Doremus]

177. I'd like to learn more about Yang and his platform.

He seems to be the only candidate who's addressing this particular issue.

[redqueen]

179. He is, yes. Obama did talk about it though! (video below)

[redqueen]

64. Not sure if you saw these -

In The Age of AI
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212700903

The End of the World as We Know It for Average Person
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212764383

[USALiberal]

73. You realize throughout history this has happened? Nt

[democratisphere]

75. Not like THIS!

EVERYTHING humans have done is being/has been/will be replaced. THIS is the REAL game changer for the human species. Interesting how it is happening as we continue forward with this planet's sixth mass extinction.

[Hoyt]

86. Then, we better hope there are a lot of big, profit generating companies in USA to tax.

[Nature Man]

112. The sooner you realize everything is a scam

it will calm you down.

[redqueen]

128. What does that mean?

The company I work for is currently automating our own call centers away. We had one team of 100 here 4 years ago. There are 30 now.

[democratisphere]

130. Sure. Let's just ignore THIS as all of the jobs dwindle away.

[Nature Man]

138. It's a big club

and we ain't in it.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

53. And how long would it have taken

to deliver the butter otherwise?

[Buns_of_Fire]

81. Unfortunately, Burt Reynolds and Jerry Reed are no longer available.

But I sense a "John Henry" moment in the not-too-distant future...

[cbdo2007]

83. Yep, if I was a truck driver I would already be looking for a career change...

obviously there will be major infrastructure changes happening over the next 50 years to accomodate not only self driving cars and trucks but drones and other vehicles. Seems like road construction is already ramping up here in the midwest, and things will just keep expanding.

[Starseer]

115. This topic never fails to

inspire my brain to think of either "Maximum Overdrive" or "Solar Crisis," the latter of which postulates reinforced trucks that have a computerized voice that booms out, "CLEAR THE HIGHWAY!" when an obstruction is detected.

[VOX]

141. Mad Max IV, starring...starring...um...uhh...

Someone watching a screen in a bunker 3,000 miles away!

[ElementaryPenguin]

149. Insane!! After the first horrendous accident - The first gigantic lawsuit will stop this!

Just plain idiotic, irresponsible, and fucking stupid!!

What next? Pilot-less commercial flights?

[redqueen]

164. Actually it won't.

This will happen. Is happening.

An informative documentary and article are linked in this post.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=12770427

[yortsed snacilbuper]

150. Lumpers,

what will happen to them?

[DFW]

151. How nice.

I STILL don't want to be on the road with those things, either as a passenger or in another car anywhere within a mile of one of those vehicles.

[USALiberal]

161. But you feel safe with 40,000 human drivers deaths a year! Hmmmm. Nt

[DFW]

167. Nice try

First off, I live in Europe, and seldom drive anyway. The autobahn here resembles a parking lot as often as it resembles Le Mans. Give me public transportation any time. Depending on where you live in North America, you may or may not have heard of it.

When there are 200 million automated vehicles on the streets of North America, THEN toss statistics at me--not when ONE computerized vehicle makes it coast to coast in one piece. That's similar to what smokers here in Europe toss at me to tell me how safe smoking is: "my neighbor's grandfather's third cousin smoked 14000 cigarettes a year for 84 years and lived to be 98!" Big deal. That's like telling me how safe it is to cross the New Jersey Turnpike on foot at rush hour blindfolded, because one person made it unscathed. Never mind that the other 10,000 that tried it got turned into Steak Tartare before they got halfway across.

[redqueen]

170. The thing is, it doesn't matter whether you want to or not.

When automated receptionists were first introduced, most people didn't like them either. But they have not gone anywhere. They are the standard now.

It will be the same with every other action that can be automated.

It can't be stopped, so my goal now is to work toward redistribution of all the profits which will be generated as a result of all this automation.

[New Breed Leader]

174. Bullshit

"It can't be stopped, so my goal now is to work toward redistribution of all the profits which will be generated as a result of all this automation. "

LOL @ you being naive enough to think that redistribution of profits will ACTUALLY happen.

[redqueen]

176. It has to happen. It's just a matter of when. Will we be proactive,

and stave off the worst effects of this transformation? Or will we wait until people are rooting?

[DFW]

178. Some things will be automated. Some will not.

My outfit still uses live receptionists. We like it, the receptionists like it, and the people that call us like it, especially the ones that understand only Cantonese.

I'd LIKE to see my job done by automation. For that matter, I WISH some of it could be done by automation--I could use the help. In addition to the ability to recognize, authenticate and evaluate (in the case of collector value over and above face value) all US and most world currency since 1792 (500 BC in the case of some Mediterranean areas), I also need people skills, getting along with law enforcement agencies, museum directors, central bankers, and being able to pick up the phone to speak to whoever is calling in any one of nine languages, and hop on a plane to the country in question the next morning if need be.

The day you find a machine that can lighten my workload a few days a week, you let me know.

[redqueen]

181. It's not my line of work to do so.

You're obviously in a lucrative industry which doesn't mind splashing out on a human being to sit and answer phones. Most industries do not have huge profit margins, or are simply not seeing a benefit from that type of investment.

As for your job, if there are analytical skills involved, then at some point someone is going to at least consider automating those portions of the work.

[DFW]

187. My job has analytical skills and people skills, and both are equally necessary

Our bottom line is about 1% of turnover. Your call as to whether you call that "splash" or not. And that's "several people" answering the phones. Not everyone speaks Cantonese. We choose to pay good people well. We are small enough to have hands-on people at the top. One time--we ARE in Texas, after all--one of our guys developed mental issues, joined the God Squad, was suddenly trying to convert everyone to Christianity, including his wife, who left him. We had to let him go, but because he had been with us for over ten years, we kept him on our books until he could find another job, so that he would not have an interruption in his health insurance. Not the sort of decision a machine would make--as far as I know, anyway.

[USALiberal]

173. Sure there will be accidents and deaths.....

Like with early commercial flights. But no idiot said to stop flying.
But with advancements in technology it will happen and save 1000s of lifes.
Amazing that anyone thinks this will never happen.

The brothers were somber when they left Kitty Hawk on 22 August 1901. Despite Chanute and company’s admiration, they considered their experiments a failure and doubted they would continue. The problems they had encountered seemed too complex to overcome. Greater minds with greater resources had tried and failed; who were they to think they could have succeeded? Wilbur told Orville on the train ride back to Dayton, "Not within a thousand years would man ever fly."

[New Breed Leader]

175. No.

But with advancements in technology it will happen and save 1000s of lifes. 

And kill hundreds of thousand jobs

[redqueen]

182. True, which is why we need leaders to start addressing this issue.

[USALiberal]

191. People missed horse and buggy's too, and full service gas stations and I guess ATMs were evil too! n

[New Breed Leader]

197. Nah, you're being disingenous, but that's ok

sigh.

[USALiberal]

199. Nice try! nt

[New Breed Leader]

207. Same to you. nt

[DFW]

185. I'm still waiting for when people are willing to fly in unmanned drone 747s.

Even knowing that except for the first and last three minutes of almost every commercial flight, an automatic pilot takes over most of the piloting, I prefer that a live body be around in order to take over in case something goes wrong. I'm sure the necessary navigation programming can be done. Making subjective decisions during sudden technical failures, calling for help and describing accident scenes to the satisfaction of rescue crews is another matter.

Malicious programming can be done, too. There is a reason most Democrats prefer that we do away with Republican-made electronic vote-tallying machines. I'm sure the technology exists to do the job fairly. I am NOT sure the people willing and able to program that into said machines are the ones that are indeed doing the programming. When the ACIP (see "The Truth Machine" by James Halperin) is invented, THEN we can put a bit more trust into such devices. Not so as long as people with impeachable motives are the ones doing the programming.

[doc03]

152. One thing about a self driving vehicle a computer is not

programmed for road rage. I hope not anyway.

[Joe941]

160. I wonder if truck driver will have jobs in 10 yrs.

This really needs to be stopped.

[redqueen]

165. It wasn't stopped when luddites tried and it won't now either.

There will still be jobs for some, but far fewer.

The post linked below has links to an excellent documentary and article about this latest industrial revolution.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=12770427

[New Breed Leader]

168. "Far fewer " isn't good enough. Nt

[redqueen]

169. Neither are all these gig jobs and part-time jobs.

But here we are.

[TidalWave46]

172. This is going to be a huge and positive change for this country.

There will be very very few downsides.

This has me very excited.

[The Valley Below]

183. I heard a great report on NPR this week about long-haul trucking...

and the number of jobs that trucking currently provides is staggering.

This would be quite a disruption for a whole lot of people.

[matt819]

184. Great

So maybe the driverless vehicle will buy the butter it is transporting, as the actual human driver will not have any money to buy butter. Or anything else. Because he's out of a job. But, hey, bring on the driverless trucks. Maybe the drivers will become driverless truck mechanics and programmers. We are creating some kind of dystopia, aren't we?

[redqueen]

188. No, we are simply undergoing the completely predictable results of technological advancement.

We should be more optimistic, and push for the best possible outcome.

[gulliver]

186. There is zero chance autonomous self-driving trucks or cars will happen, at least before strong AI.

It's essentially impossible to have autonomous self-driving trucks or cars, and telling truck drivers they are going to lose their jobs is, effectively, just telling them a cruel falsehood. Once there is strong AI (beyond human and self-improving), then all humans will be out of jobs. Before that, no, there is no way to implement autonomous self-driving.

It's so difficult (in the ballpark of unscrambling an egg difficult) that you might as well call it impossible. And people are starting to realize that, although admitting it will take some climbing down for some folks. Here's an interesting recent Economist article on the topic. The basic idea is that there are a virtually infinite number of what programmers and designers call "edge cases."

https://www.economist.com/leaders/2019/10/10/driverless-cars-are-stuck-in-a-jam

The autonomous driving bubble is very similar, in my opinion, to the Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI) "fad" in the 1980s. Reagan and a whole bunch of supposedly smart people thought (or pretended) it was possible for there to be a defensive shield against MIRVed, nuclear-armed ballistic missiles. Nope. It's just effectively impossible. It never happened, because of that. David Parnas and others who disassociated themselves from SDI early on were completely right. SDI remains merely a hugely costly, dangerously self-deceptive figment of our imaginations.

Self-driving cars and trucks are cool on the surface, but the idea that they are feasible (before a time when human intelligence itself is obsoleted) is silly.

[redqueen]

190. They will have a human driver able to monitor and link to trucks remotely.

The AI will signal when there's an issue, the human will resolve the issue, and the AI will take over again.

The trip described in the OP had 0 issues.

This is coming a lot sooner than you or that author think.

[gulliver]

195. Zero chance of that.

There are an effectively infinite number of edge cases. We encounter them essentially every time we drive. We haven't even solved airplane and train autonomy yet, and those are much easier. Humans are currently uniquely capable of solving ambiguous problems.

[redqueen]

198. The software is further along than you think.

The truck, which traveled on interstates 15 and 70 right before Thanksgiving, had to take scheduled breaks but drove mostly autonomously. There were zero “disengagements,” or times the self-driving system had to be suspended because of a problem, Kerrigan said.

[USALiberal]

196. It will no doubt happen soon, 5-10 years. nt