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Fri Dec 13, 2019, 05:33 PM

BREAKING: Supreme Court will hear Trump financial records case

The Supreme Court announced Friday that it will take up President Trumpís broad claims of protection from investigation, raising the prospect of a landmark election-year ruling on the limits of presidential power.

A New York prosecutor and three Democratic-led congressional committees have won lower-court decisions granting them access to a broad range of Trumpís financial records relating to him personally, his family and his businesses.

Unlike other modern presidents and presidential candidates, Trump has not released his tax returns. He and his personal lawyers have mounted a vigorous effort to keep that information private and defeat attempts to obtain the records from financial institutions and his accounting firm.

The Supreme Courtís decision to get involved represents a historic moment that will test the justices and the Constitutionís separation-of-powers design. It is the first time the presidentís personal conduct has come before the court, and marks a new phase in the investigations that have dogged his presidency.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/supreme-court-will-take-up-trumps-broad-claims-of-protection-from-investigation/2019/12/13/1de84cd6-1d19-11ea-8d58-5ac3600967a1_story.html

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Reply BREAKING: Supreme Court will hear Trump financial records case (Original post)
StarfishSaver Dec 2019 OP
pbmus Dec 2019 #1
TheBlackAdder Dec 2019 #59
Poiuyt Dec 2019 #2
Goodheart Dec 2019 #5
The_Counsel Dec 2019 #28
StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #31
The_Counsel Dec 2019 #36
StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #38
The_Counsel Dec 2019 #42
StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #44
The_Counsel Dec 2019 #49
Bettie Dec 2019 #3
StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #6
Bettie Dec 2019 #11
StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #30
Quixote1818 Dec 2019 #45
SlogginThroughIt Dec 2019 #65
pbmus Dec 2019 #8
spanone Dec 2019 #9
Bettie Dec 2019 #12
Generic Brad Dec 2019 #62
Bettie Dec 2019 #63
triron Dec 2019 #64
StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #67
Bettie Dec 2019 #68
BKDem Dec 2019 #21
LastDemocratInSC Dec 2019 #23
VMA131Marine Dec 2019 #32
bucolic_frolic Dec 2019 #4
pbmus Dec 2019 #14
at140 Dec 2019 #29
bucolic_frolic Dec 2019 #37
at140 Dec 2019 #41
bucolic_frolic Dec 2019 #43
applegrove Dec 2019 #7
Bettie Dec 2019 #16
pbmus Dec 2019 #26
triron Dec 2019 #18
uponit7771 Dec 2019 #60
onecaliberal Dec 2019 #10
pwb Dec 2019 #13
StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #17
Buckeyeblue Dec 2019 #15
StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #19
Buckeyeblue Dec 2019 #24
StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #33
Fiendish Thingy Dec 2019 #20
StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #22
Fiendish Thingy Dec 2019 #56
StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #58
Fiendish Thingy Dec 2019 #61
budkin Dec 2019 #25
StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #34
budkin Dec 2019 #47
StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #48
mnmoderatedem Dec 2019 #52
StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #54
LenaBaby61 Dec 2019 #51
cureautismnow Dec 2019 #27
StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #35
cbdo2007 Dec 2019 #39
StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #40
bucolic_frolic Dec 2019 #46
Awsi Dooger Dec 2019 #50
honest.abe Dec 2019 #53
Poiuyt Dec 2019 #55
renate Dec 2019 #57
Name removed Dec 2019 #66

Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 05:36 PM

1. Show your colors Supremes...Fascism or Democratic Republic

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Response to pbmus (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 09:17 PM

59. Boofo for the Trump Win!

.

Boofo the Supreme Court Judge (Kinko the "Kid-Loving" Clown song parody--remember Dr. Demento?)

Kick ass lyrics posted on the video about Justice Boofo.



.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 05:37 PM

2. I'm a little surprised they agreed to hear this case

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Response to Poiuyt (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 05:38 PM

5. Obviously the dipshits (Alito, Kavanaugh, Gorsuch, Thomas) want to side with trump.

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Response to Goodheart (Reply #5)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 05:54 PM

28. In a Perfect World, Gorsuch and Kavanaugh Would Recuse...

...but then again, in a perfect world neither would even be on the bench.

Instead, we live in the United States, where anything goes.

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Response to The_Counsel (Reply #28)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 05:57 PM

31. No

Justices don't recuse because a case involves the president that appointed them.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #31)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 06:01 PM

36. Like I Said: "In a Prefect World..."

Sadly, the U. S. of A. is far from perfect--especially these days.

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Response to The_Counsel (Reply #36)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 06:03 PM

38. That wouldn't be "perfect." It would be a mess.

Since most federal cases involve the president of his administration to some degree, justices would essentially be disqualified from most cases until a new president is elected.

As I said, it would be a mess.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #38)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 06:15 PM

42. In This Instance, Only 2 of 9 Would Recuse, Though.

That would leave 7 Justices, still enough to get something done.

When was the last time even a two-term President had more than three Justices appointed and active at the same time while he was in office? FDR?

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Response to The_Counsel (Reply #42)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 06:18 PM

44. Fortunately, your proposal is a non-starter

Because it would be a mess ...

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #44)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 06:30 PM

49. I Guess It's a Good Thing I'm Not Proposing That, Then.

First of all, it would probably take a Constitutional amendment--not that very many on the right even give a damn about that document these days. Let's hope that Roberts is one who actually still does....

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 05:37 PM

3. This very likely means that they

have five votes to say that congress isn't a thing.

If they rule that congress has no oversight power, we really are done, they've made him King.

ETA: Also, does this kick the can down the road to next Summer?

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Response to Bettie (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 05:39 PM

6. Not necessarily

It could be just the opposite.

If they let the lower court case stand that ruling will apply only in the DC Circuit and Trump could still try to defy Congress in other courts. It's possible the Supreme Court wants to decide this once and for all and tell all courts in the country that Trump he's full of it.

We can't necessarily read anything into the fact that they accepted cert

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #6)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 05:41 PM

11. I have no trust in the five

conservatives on the court.

It would be nice if they did that, but I've no faith that they are anything but a bunch of hacks doing Agent Orange's bidding.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #11)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 05:56 PM

30. We don't need 5. We just need 1

And I think Roberts is in play

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #30)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 06:19 PM

45. This is a pretty cut and dry case so I agree Roberts will probably go by the Constitution

He was appointed by Bush who hates Trump and he seems willing to give the other conservative judges cover by being the swing vote.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Reply #45)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 01:42 AM

65. That seems optimistic.

I donít believe for a second it will go down that we. I think we are completely fucked.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 05:40 PM

8. FUBAR...

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Response to Bettie (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 05:40 PM

9. Don't forget every Republican Senator is about to Vote that Congress has no Oversight.

If trump didn't Obstruct Congress....it can't be obstructed.

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Response to spanone (Reply #9)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 05:44 PM

12. On the other hand

just the idea that the SCOTUS is on his side will cause him to go full Hitler right away! He's directing the impeachment "trial" with the Turtle, so he knows he's getting away with it all, so he'll double down on the criminal behavior.

I'm thinking it is time to step away from news for a bit. I feel utterly hopeless at this moment.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #12)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 11:59 PM

62. There's no Avengers or Guardians of the Galaxy to help us

I sensed we were moving to dictatorship when Bush II was wrongly appointed. I became more worried about it when Citizens United passed. When Trump stole his office I felt my fears were justified. McConnell has confirmed all this and my anxiety is amped up.

We are now in a fight for our lives and most of us donít realize the severity of it. All week i have had a horrible feeling in the pit of my stomachs over this. I believe I feel as stressed as you do.

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Response to Generic Brad (Reply #62)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 12:56 AM

63. And people keep telling us to trust

the system of checks and balances....but those are no longer in place.

Checks and balances, rule of law only work when both sides agree to follow them.

Only one side follows them and we're losing ground daily...and if the SCOTUS rules as I fear they will, congressional oversight won't even be a 'thing' anymore.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #63)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 01:39 AM

64. Just them taking the case delays anyone getting Trump's tax returns. Their objective is clear.

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Response to triron (Reply #64)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 09:42 AM

67. Taking the case doesn't make it clear they're trying to keep anyone from getting Trump's records

They're the Supreme Court. They take and decide cases. That's what they do. There's nothing inherently nefarious about granting cert in a significant federal case involving the president of the United States and it's certain not proof of any objective to delay the case. If that were there objective, they wouldn't need to grant cert to do it.

Everything's not a grand conspiracy.

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Response to triron (Reply #64)

Sat Dec 14, 2019, 10:20 AM

68. I will never again make the mistake of thinking

that any Republican has the good of the country at heart.

They have shown us who they are. We need to believe them and react accordingly.

I'm tired of calls for "civility" when it only goes one way, they expect our side to play by rules they have no intention of following.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 05:46 PM

21. If they let him get away with this...

...we really are finished. No exaggeration.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 05:48 PM

23. The right ringers complain about "overturning the 2016 election

If the Supreme Court rules that the financial document requests are out-of-bounds they will have gone a long way toward overturning the American Revolution.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 05:58 PM

32. Pretty sure it only takes four votes of the justices to hear a case.

However, if they eventually overrule the lower court rulings then you can pretty well throw out the emoluments clause because there will be no way to investigate if the president has broken it.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 05:38 PM

4. If SCOTUS rules with Trump, there is no Constitution

because to have separation of powers, you need enforcement. If you have no information, you have no enforcement. It would be a Constitution composed solely of the holes in swiss cheese.

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Response to bucolic_frolic (Reply #4)


Response to bucolic_frolic (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 05:55 PM

29. All 3 branches are co-equal according to constitution

which I interpret as when disputes arise between executive and legislative branches, one can't over-rule the other, and have to seek help from judiciary branch to resolve the issue.

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Response to at140 (Reply #29)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 06:02 PM

37. But that makes judicial superior to the other 2 overturning Marbury v. Madison

maybe that's what they're up to. It would be like starting all over again.

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Response to bucolic_frolic (Reply #37)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 06:09 PM

41. I always wondered about that

as to why judges have so much power over elected politicians.
But if you examine history of SCOTUS, all their decisions have been accepted as the final outcome.

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Response to at140 (Reply #41)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 06:18 PM

43. well i'm no legal scholar, but it's judicial review i think

and was established in Marbury v. Madison, or so intro polic sci courses taught

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 05:40 PM

7. They will hear appeal and other cases in March and rule in June. CNN

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Response to applegrove (Reply #7)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 05:45 PM

16. So, no one will ever see any of it

and he is protected.

Checks and balances? Nah, not anymore.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #16)


Response to applegrove (Reply #7)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 05:45 PM

18. Delaying that long is just what Trump wants. They are already doing his bidding.

Constitution is now garbage.

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Response to applegrove (Reply #7)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 09:42 PM

60. The biggest flaw in the system in the timeliness of US Courts regarding government matters. If there

... was more meditate threats the courts would still be waiting

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 05:41 PM

10. Of course, they have to protect their king.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 05:44 PM

13. He lost up til now?

Chief Justice Roberts cares about The Constitution , I don't think he will protect trump. Especially because they put such controversial people on his court.

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Response to pwb (Reply #13)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 05:45 PM

17. I tend to lean that way.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 05:45 PM

15. What's the difference between this and whitewater?

The Clinton's had their financial records subpoenaed during that investigation. Granted, they had nothing to hide.

I don't see how they can say the constitution prevents this.

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Response to Buckeyeblue (Reply #15)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 05:46 PM

19. The Clintons didn't fight the subpoenas

So this wasn't an issue.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #19)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 05:50 PM

24. I get that but they didn't fight it because either

1. They didn't feel like they had legal standing

2. They didn't want to give the appearance of having something to hide

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Response to Buckeyeblue (Reply #24)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 05:59 PM

33. 3. They're not crooks who spit on the law and Constitution

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 05:46 PM

20. Any idea when they will rule on the case? Nt

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #20)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 05:47 PM

22. June

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #22)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 08:10 PM

56. ...great...maybe we can convince Nancy to convene a second impeachment inquiry

Just before the convention.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #56)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 09:08 PM

58. I'm not sure there's anything impeachable in the financial records

My understanding is that these are records related to his activities before becoming president. While it's possible they could be the basis for impeachment for high crimes and misdemeanors, it would be a tough row to hoe. I think that's why Pelosi and team kept that part of the investigations separate from the impeachment, which focuses on is wrongdoing while in office.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #58)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 10:56 PM

61. I thought it was for records from the past 10 years?

Or am I confusing this with another case?

If it does include his records while president, then there certainly could be evidence for impeachment, but in any case, it will be good ammunition for the fall election, especially if he doesn't pay any taxes, and isn't really a billionaire, and especially if he is deep in debt to Russians...

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 05:51 PM

25. We all know how this is going to end

5-4 in favor of Trump. He owns SCOTUS now.

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Response to budkin (Reply #25)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 06:00 PM

34. No, we don't know tbat

People need to take a breath.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #34)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 06:23 PM

47. It's become so predictable at this point

They shouldn't even be taking the case.

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Response to budkin (Reply #47)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 06:26 PM

48. It's not predictable at all

And they have very good reason to take the case.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #34)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 06:36 PM

52. Roberts is our hope

I know W appointed him, but he's capable of making reasonable judgements, unlike the other conservative appointments

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Response to mnmoderatedem (Reply #52)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 06:46 PM

54. True - but I actually wouldn't be surprised if more came on board

If the liberals and Roberts can draft the opinion just right - maybe not going as far as we want but still strong - they might be able to cobble together a super majority or maybe even a unanimous decision.

Often - especially in major cases like this - there's a lot of horse trading between the justices who go back and forth over language and outcomes. The Chief Justice has a lot of influence over this. If he feels strongly that the Court needs to send a message, he and the other justices work out all sorts of compromises and adjustments to get to a unanimous decision, if possible.

One example of this is Brown v. Board of Education where Chief Justice Warren and the liberal wing felt the decision had to be unanimous and that a split decision would do more harm than good.

This is going to be interesting

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Response to budkin (Reply #25)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 06:33 PM

51. 5-4 in favor of Trump. He owns SCOTUS now.

WORSE CASE SCENARIO which is possible with a Fascist Fatso Supreme Court judgement:

We more than likely WON'T be seeing a Democratic presidency maybe ever again.putin wouldn't want that.
It'll be thuglican presidents, trumputinthuglican Senates and NO Congress because remember, since a thuglican president can't be reigned in and do anything he wants to, and Congress won't have any oversight power, then thuglicans can rig, gerrymander and fix elections with foreign and domestic help forever until the end of time.

Hell, why even have elections since trumputinthuglicans can stay in power forever since they may not even want to be bothered with voting

The Banana Republic of the USA.

2020-

RIP USA as we knew it pre the 2020 GE.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 05:52 PM

27. Gorsucks and Buffo should recuse.

But they won't of course since you couldn't find their integrity with a microscope.

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Response to cureautismnow (Reply #27)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 06:01 PM

35. Justices don't recuse just because a case involves the president who appointed them.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 06:04 PM

39. I'm guessing Roberts wants shut Trump down for good.

If they let the lower court decision stand Trump will keep fighting it some way or another. This way the decision will be final and I bet dollars to doughnuts Roberts wants to teach Trump a lesson about the law.

Roberts has never wanted to be a hero for the crazy conservatives, he wants to be king of his own court legacy.

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Response to cbdo2007 (Reply #39)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 06:08 PM

40. DING DING DING! We have a winner!

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Response to cbdo2007 (Reply #39)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 06:22 PM

46. I agree with that, Roberts is no lightweight

and I'm also wondering, do we have any stats on cases that have been ruled dozens of times by lower courts that ultimately were decided at SCOTUS level? How many times did they flip so many judges' rulings all in one direction? I would not think it very many. Ultimately they all read the same legal codes and same Constitution, and there can't be a lot of reverence for DOJ rulings that have never been tested.

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Response to cbdo2007 (Reply #39)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 06:33 PM

50. Depending on one person in the world

Not my idea of an ideal scenario. The other four will be like the Republican congress...looking away and rubber stamping everything, equipped with some absurd rationalization like Scalia in 2000.

I would make Roberts the favorite to side with the conservatives. It has to be favored that way, because that's his overall tendency. The notion that he wants an independent legacy, or to rely on the Obamacare example, is not weighty enough to overcome the big picture reality of his typical slant.

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Response to cbdo2007 (Reply #39)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 06:41 PM

53. Yes, I believe you are correct.

Roberts is not going to go out of his way to protect Trump. Recall Trump's insults back when Roberts sided with Obamacare.

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Response to cbdo2007 (Reply #39)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 06:47 PM

55. I think Roberts is very sensitive about his Court being seen as political

He wants the Roberts Court to be thought of as legitimate so he will be very conscientious in making his decisions.

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Response to cbdo2007 (Reply #39)

Fri Dec 13, 2019, 09:04 PM

57. I like this... thank you

It makes a lot of sense and I feel better now.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Original post)

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