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sheshe2

(83,328 posts)
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 09:02 PM Dec 2019

Here is a thought to ponder.

With everything tRump has done, his core stays with him, about 40%. At least that is what the polls keep saying. Fact is, I don't believe them anymore than I believe his twitter feed or FB supporters. We know for a fact that we have bots galore thanks to Russia's interference.

I don't believe his poll numbers due to bots. I do not believe his rallies due to paid trolls, and performance art by lousy actors. I will never believe what a Repuke has to say or the manufactured, choreographed in sync outrage they display.

The Repukes are in lock step with Russia. tRump, at the cost of our Constitutional laws, is being defended by each and everyone of them. If this had been Obama or Hillary they would have been tarred and feathered and locked in prison.

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Here is a thought to ponder. (Original Post) sheshe2 Dec 2019 OP
Right on! Kath2 Dec 2019 #1
hey, Kath2. sheshe2 Dec 2019 #2
Hope so, on the flip side are how many support the vile pile of human dung but wont admit it Eliot Rosewater Dec 2019 #3
...Do you remember the very first hearings of the Trump era? dewsgirl Dec 2019 #10
Could be, who knows, what I know is IF putin can do it, he will. Eliot Rosewater Dec 2019 #30
I know quite a few, a scary amount who support the bastard. Pepsidog Dec 2019 #27
K&R UTUSN Dec 2019 #4
I live in a very red part of NC and Trump signs were EVERYWHERE in 2016. blm Dec 2019 #5
He doesn't have the support his polls say he does. sheshe2 Dec 2019 #6
Millions of young, newly registered voters sure want him gone. blm Dec 2019 #9
I don't believe all those polls. murielm99 Dec 2019 #43
Kudos. sheshe2 Dec 2019 #45
OTOH, I think the real lesson that we should take from the UK elections... Salviati Dec 2019 #11
Always blm Dec 2019 #16
This, people! This right here!! Beartracks Dec 2019 #48
I hope you are right captain queeg Dec 2019 #7
Same here. trof Dec 2019 #8
the trump thing is smoke and mirrors. Abetted by lots of roubles and propagandists. erronis Dec 2019 #12
K&R...👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼 spanone Dec 2019 #13
It's far deeper than that bucolic_frolic Dec 2019 #14
Malcolm Nance is worth listening too. He remains alarmed. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Dec 2019 #18
Fiction is closer to the fact for them. sheshe2 Dec 2019 #19
Malcom Nance said it. nt UniteFightBack Dec 2019 #29
Thanks bucolic_frolic Dec 2019 #32
A brilliant book... pangaia Dec 2019 #31
I am quite sure 2naSalit Dec 2019 #35
Poll numbers are very easily manipulated dlk Dec 2019 #15
+1 2naSalit Dec 2019 #36
I agree Joinfortmill Dec 2019 #17
I believe it ! His poll numbers (approval not at 40, more likely around 45ish) Laura PourMeADrink Dec 2019 #20
My vaguely related family (I'm an only child among 6 halfs) is awash with trump supporters... MerryBlooms Dec 2019 #21
I wish I could join you at the corner for the protest. sheshe2 Dec 2019 #22
I am a homecare person too! MerryBlooms Dec 2019 #24
Love and hugs to you, MerryBlooms. sheshe2 Dec 2019 #28
Take care, hon. MerryBlooms Dec 2019 #39
You as well my friend. sheshe2 Dec 2019 #46
The rural vs urban divide in the US today reminds me of wnylib Dec 2019 #26
I'm thinking the British election was... JoeOtterbein Dec 2019 #23
I wish that I could agree with you. But I don't Tumbulu Dec 2019 #25
Well stated I totally agree. It will be very very hard to beat Trump in doc03 Dec 2019 #40
I agree there are millions of these rotten people living here in the US we can't ignore them dustyscamp Dec 2019 #42
I don't see how bots affect polls eallen Dec 2019 #33
"the manufactured, choreographed in sync outrage they display" KY_EnviroGuy Dec 2019 #34
EnviroGuy.... sheshe2 Dec 2019 #37
They have to breath. czarjak Dec 2019 #49
I live right in the middle of Trumpland and I know zero doc03 Dec 2019 #38
I don't believe it either. Sadly my relatives and friends live love laugh Dec 2019 #41
Again ScratchCat Dec 2019 #44
Agreed. The polls are designed to influence opinion, not reflect it. rec, nt. Mc Mike Dec 2019 #47

Kath2

(3,054 posts)
1. Right on!
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 09:09 PM
Dec 2019

It galls me to death that Hillary Clinton actually won the popular vote by about 3 million.

Eliot Rosewater

(31,097 posts)
3. Hope so, on the flip side are how many support the vile pile of human dung but wont admit it
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 09:13 PM
Dec 2019

to anyone including pollsters?

I believe as sure as I am sitting here it wont matter anyway, putin has a plan for us involving our power grids...

dewsgirl

(14,961 posts)
10. ...Do you remember the very first hearings of the Trump era?
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 09:38 PM
Dec 2019

They where to confirm one of his idiots, anyway there were short power outages in two different chambers on live TV, anytime the power grid comes up I think of this, I believe it was a warning....

Eliot Rosewater

(31,097 posts)
30. Could be, who knows, what I know is IF putin can do it, he will.
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 11:27 PM
Dec 2019

Yet some will say I am out of my mind...sigh

blm

(112,919 posts)
5. I live in a very red part of NC and Trump signs were EVERYWHERE in 2016.
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 09:18 PM
Dec 2019

Now I rarely see Trump stickers.

sheshe2

(83,328 posts)
6. He doesn't have the support his polls say he does.
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 09:24 PM
Dec 2019

It is bought and paid for fake news.

Propaganda.

blm

(112,919 posts)
9. Millions of young, newly registered voters sure want him gone.
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 09:35 PM
Dec 2019

The idea that a significant number of them would even entertain the thought of voting for Trump is ludicrous.

murielm99

(30,656 posts)
43. I don't believe all those polls.
Mon Dec 16, 2019, 01:44 PM
Dec 2019

They are great examples of bothsiderism.

Dan Rather cautioned against interviewing all those people in rural coffee shops. They don't represent that many voters. I know, because I live in a rural area. My husband goes to those coffee shops and argues with the usual Magats. Sometimes I go, too. My husband has a friend who can argue circles around Magats. Sometimes when they see his truck coming, some of them get up and leave. They can't stand up to his Democratic truth.

Salviati

(6,002 posts)
11. OTOH, I think the real lesson that we should take from the UK elections...
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 09:53 PM
Dec 2019

Is that we should not overestimate the likelihood of someone losing an election just because they are a ridiculous buffoon. I don't care if the polls say that we're up by 90%, we should be fighting like we're 5 points down until the very end.

Don't take anything for granted.

captain queeg

(10,035 posts)
7. I hope you are right
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 09:33 PM
Dec 2019

I think you are actually. The rethugs are masters at Propoganda these days. But there are plenty of trumpers out there

erronis

(14,944 posts)
12. the trump thing is smoke and mirrors. Abetted by lots of roubles and propagandists.
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 09:55 PM
Dec 2019

the same way the "Fart of the Deal" was a best-seller.

All that they've done is learn how to play the polls. Sometimes actually influence the hoi-polloi but usually just spectacles.

bucolic_frolic

(42,663 posts)
14. It's far deeper than that
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 10:02 PM
Dec 2019

Somebody important posted on Twitter today this is now an espionage thing. He thought Rudy is being seeded with Russian manufactured false information which will be presented to Congress as the new facts on Biden.

Reading John le Carre's "Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy" this weekend. (I urge you all to indulge.) Though fiction, lots to be learned. GOP Congress is "inside out" - working for and being run by the other side - Russia. America is no longer in control of its own public discourse. So much propaganda being used to defend Trump's GOP while undermining our Constitution. Our system of laws is melting.

sheshe2

(83,328 posts)
19. Fiction is closer to the fact for them.
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 10:42 PM
Dec 2019

Closer than the facts they present as truth. False narratives everywhere, Fake polls and yes their slights of hand.

2naSalit

(86,048 posts)
35. I am quite sure
Mon Dec 16, 2019, 12:00 AM
Dec 2019

that was rudy's errand as well as the multipurpose lavrov visit. And barr was just over there coordinating. Not only that, Ukraine is a great conduit for passing info and materials so they have been at this for a while. I also suspect a couple of things that our Speaker may have up her sleeves as well as some in the Senate. I can't really articulate what I think about them right now but I have a couple hunches.

But that doesn't mean I'm not scared.




dlk

(11,432 posts)
15. Poll numbers are very easily manipulated
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 10:05 PM
Dec 2019

Much depends on the statistical significance of the sample. In reality, polls can be made to say anything.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
20. I believe it ! His poll numbers (approval not at 40, more likely around 45ish)
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 10:42 PM
Dec 2019

He can absolutely positively win with 45. Out-from-under-a -rockers - (saw plenty at 2016 polls ) an add-in factor. Add 2-3 points or more for them.

Our only hope is that he does something before Nov that is worse than what NP thought was worse than the Mueller findings.

Or, perhaps the House adds in all the horrible, impeachable stuff he did before Ukraine? Too late? Just amazing that we are allowing them to zero in on a specific event ( as horrible and unconstitutional as it was) instead of listing a list of a hundred crimes he's committed since day one. No one is listening anyway...might as well pile it on! JHC - two counts-. He's taking that like a victory.

MerryBlooms

(11,728 posts)
21. My vaguely related family (I'm an only child among 6 halfs) is awash with trump supporters...
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 10:47 PM
Dec 2019

They're all for cutting Obamacare and welfare, even though a lot of them receive OHP, SNAP and WIC... The ignorance is astounding. Hell, some believed until last week that Hillary Clinton was running for president, but I get that, considering some of the shit polls have Clinton in them! Unfortunately, these people are not unique to my state. Like most blue states, metro areas are blue, but rural bright red. Tuesday there are impeachment protests, and I'm going to be on a downtown corner with an impeachment sign, in a very red county.

sheshe2

(83,328 posts)
22. I wish I could join you at the corner for the protest.
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 10:55 PM
Dec 2019

I have one 15 minutes away and I can't even make that one. Homecare for my mom 24/7. I can't go and it hurts me that I cannot.

MerryBlooms

(11,728 posts)
24. I am a homecare person too!
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 11:13 PM
Dec 2019

I take care of my 76 y/o sister and three other clients. I didn't know how immense the need for help was, until I became certified.

Love, dignity and safety...

It's so hard some days, because you never know what to expect with the dementia or the varying physical limitations. One of my clients is blind... Some nights I don't sleep because I worry for them.

Take care, and stay strong. You and your mom are in my prayers tonight... If that's okay?

wnylib

(21,146 posts)
26. The rural vs urban divide in the US today reminds me of
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 11:17 PM
Dec 2019

what I learned years ago about Spanish history. The same kind of divide preceded the Spanish Civil War. Families were divided. One side would not socialize with or even speak to the other. Heated verbal arguments in public and private. Conservative monarchists vs progressive supporters of a republic. The Church sided with the monarchists. Fascist nationalism vs democracy.

Unfortunately, the nationalists won. Not until the death of Franco in the 1970's did Spain have a republic under a constitutional monarchy.

Tumbulu

(6,267 posts)
25. I wish that I could agree with you. But I don't
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 11:15 PM
Dec 2019

Because I live and work in red country and these people still love him and the reason that they voted for him was to make “librels” go crazy. And they are done with the federal government. They voted him in to destroy the government. And they are very pleased.

The red states via the Senate and the electoral college have disproportionally greater power.

I am sad to say that I do not see them giving up any of their power. And it appears to me that their goals are being realized.

I knew Trump would win when the Brexit vote occurred, as did my other friends living in red states. It was only those who live in urban areas who have no idea of the power of Rush Limbaugh and friends over the psyche’s of the rural areas and thus the majority in the Senate.

Sorry, just my opinion.

doc03

(35,148 posts)
40. Well stated I totally agree. It will be very very hard to beat Trump in
Mon Dec 16, 2019, 12:49 AM
Dec 2019

the rust belt. Nobody believed us in 2016. I heard about this Blue Wall all the time and the snarky comment your concern is noted.

dustyscamp

(2,221 posts)
42. I agree there are millions of these rotten people living here in the US we can't ignore them
Mon Dec 16, 2019, 07:40 AM
Dec 2019

If we do we will lose.

eallen

(2,951 posts)
33. I don't see how bots affect polls
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 11:43 PM
Dec 2019

First, it would require allocating a significant fraction of phone numbers to bots. I doubt that is the case. Bots can spoof the number for outgoing calls. But not for incoming.

KY_EnviroGuy

(14,483 posts)
34. "the manufactured, choreographed in sync outrage they display"
Sun Dec 15, 2019, 11:53 PM
Dec 2019

Good choice of words, SheShe2. True of every Rethug I've encountered for many years when engaged in almost any conversation.

Much of our nation needs a thorough infusion of American and world history, sociology, political and physical science. Oh, if only we could do that over night!

We must somehow burst that massive, closed right-wing thought bubble/echo chamber to stop its spread......

sheshe2

(83,328 posts)
37. EnviroGuy....
Mon Dec 16, 2019, 12:02 AM
Dec 2019

Here is the display.



"A howler monkey weighs little more than a pug but can roar as loud as a tiger. Researchers at Cambridge University have found a surprising trade-off across howler species: the louder a male’s roar, the smaller his reproductive organs. His testicles, to be specific."



I posted it here and it says a lot..

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212783571

We Need To Vote.

Thank you.

doc03

(35,148 posts)
38. I live right in the middle of Trumpland and I know zero
Mon Dec 16, 2019, 12:39 AM
Dec 2019

Trump supporters that are wavering in the least.

live love laugh

(13,000 posts)
41. I don't believe it either. Sadly my relatives and friends
Mon Dec 16, 2019, 07:08 AM
Dec 2019

do believe it. I despair at the constant disinformation that they unthinkingly spew. And these are Democrats. *sigh*

ScratchCat

(1,957 posts)
44. Again
Mon Dec 16, 2019, 02:02 PM
Dec 2019

Trump's "base" didn't elect him. His "base" isn't large enough to elect anyone nationally. Rank and file Republicans who were brainwashed by two decades of RW talk show bullshit voted for Trump to stop who they believe to be Satan's Spawn from becoming President. While his "base" may be all kinds of happy that he is "pissing off liberals", the rank/file type are embarrassed to the core.

Not one person in Trump's "base" needs to abandon him. Every single one can go vote for him again. If the tens of millions of everyday Republicans who wanted someone else as the nominee in 2016 don't all go vote again, its not even a close election. He wouldn't have won in 2016 if Obama voters in three States would have voted for Clinton instead of staying home or voting for Stein.

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