Is everyone prepared for an election day where power grids go down...?

[Eliot Rosewater]

Let me do it this way:

Does anyone here believe putin and the GOP are NOT working together to see to it the GOP stays in power?

Does anyone here think our government is NOT being forced to "look the other way" while the KGB, called something else now, works day and night to infiltrate our system?

Does anyone here think putin would NOT do ANYTHING to keep his puppet in power?

Does anyone here think rump would NOT do ANYTHING including murder to stay in power?


I have not been wrong yet overestimating the lack of patriotism from righty, are we ready? If it is not power grids, it will be something else, any ideas what else?

Hopefully we are past the "chicken little" comment days...Hopefully NOW people realize these kind of warnings from myself and others have been RIGHT ON all along!

edit

I am glad to see most people here realize my CONCERN about what MIGHT happen given what we have seen so far was ridiculed by only a few, most of them I am not surprised by. Good to know the VAST majority of people are now aware of just how bad shit can get.

[applegrove]

1. DU went down in 2016. Did we ever find out who did it?

[Eliot Rosewater]

2. Good question.

In one way you wouldnt think the KGB/GOP machine would target relatively small boards like this but I see people on small youtube chats who are clearly KGB operatives, promoting their agenda.

Not bots either. Posters who speak the KGB line who clearly do it all day long.

[AllaN01Bear]

33. was on du when it went down. i was like huh?

also from what i understand also the discussionist was taken out as well.

[applegrove]

45. I think the discussionist had to be taken down as they cleaned up the DU.

Russians were all over the Discussionist so i doubt they would attack it. They were thriving there.

[tinrobot]

3. One more reason we need to go back to paper ballots

[BigmanPigman]

5. Hell yes!

[samnsara]

4. wash state is all mail in so my paper pre stamped ballot will be mailed in early

[marlakay]

18. Same in Oregon

But we really need the purple states to be all mail.

Its my 20th anniversary next October so I plan to turn in ballot early then we are going out of the country for a few weeks I have no wish to be near the mad house it will be, i wish i could stay till after the election.

[summer_in_TX]

39. Wait!

In purple states with voter ID restrictions, there are ways to disqualify mail-in ballots.

The biggest way is over the voter's signature on the ballot. Maybe in Oregon and some other blue states it's safe enough, especially in blue jurisdictions. I don't think it is all that safe in purple states myself.

Signatures change – I write my name two different ways, depending.

Plus, occasionally we hear stories of the mail getting lost. Heck, a Fed-Ex truck caught fire last week and packages were burned.

Young people have a lot of signature variation over time. A mail-in ballot might have a higher rate of rejection with that age group, I'd think.

[marlakay]

43. Ugh! If its not one fear its another

The machines will be hacked or changed, they will disqualify thousands more voters. Change voting places, not have your name on list even if you voted in last election making you get provisional ballot. My daughter had that happen to her last year luckily she lives in blue state.

Lies on FB and other media.

Feels overwhelming but we can’t give up!

[AlexSFCA]

78. my ballot got rejected once in CA cause signature

did not match DL. And that’s in SF, doesn’t get bluer than that. For some reason I signed my full name on DL vs. the signature I use everywhere else. Besides we renew our DLs once every 10 years or so. I voted early by mail but the rejection letter was sent weeks after the election was over. Needless to say, I never made that mistake again. More public education is needed on this. I consider myself a very informed voter and yet this had happened to me.

I would also add that even blue states matter a lot cause of local elections, house of reps, state races, etc. No state is 100% blue. CA has almost 5M of registered repubs.

[pangaia]

6. no doubt at all...

speaking of power grids..

living in western NY, how easy it would be to take down any of the power lines running from niagara falls eastward....

i suspect a child could do it....

[George II]

12. Don't know if you remember it or was old enough, but that huge blackout of 1965.....

.....in the northeast, probably the most disruptive in history, was triggered by a single relay in Ontario near Niagara Falls, and began a chain reaction starting in Southern Ontario into Western New York and eventually east across most of New England.

It wound up affecting Ontario and seven states, NY, VT, NH, MA, CT, RI, and NJ.

It began at 5:27 PM and lasted into the next day. Tens of millions of people were affected.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_blackout_of_1965

[pangaia]

13. In 1965 I was 22 living in Ithaca NY

But I don;t remember it....

But then, there is a lot I don't remember... like where are t he damn xmas tree ornaments??

[JDC]

20. I've gotten high in Stewart Park a time or two.

I remember going to get ice cream afterwards. Does that count?

[pangaia]

36. Of course it does.... :)

[Hestia]

26. Even a movie about it - Where Were You When the Lights Went Out? Population Boom too

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

51. Nope. The supposed birth boom nine months later is a myth.

[luvtheGWN]

35. I remember it. Scary times,

and I was reminded of it during the August 2003 blackout. Interestingly, Hubby and I were travelling from Toronto down to our weekend abode just north of N'Falls. Fortunately, a fellow in the N'Falls power station saw what was about to happen and flipped a switch which kept the power on in the Niagara Peninsula. Kind of ironic! Our trip from Toronto took more than twice as long as all the stoplights were out -- took forever to get out of the city.

Paper ballots would be "de rigueur" if only you folks had an effective, workable, totally non-partisan FEC.

[JustAnotherGen]

40. I'm a graduate of NU

I used to jog around that you thing . . .

[csziggy]

69. The actual lines don't have to be taken down

There have been reports of hacking the computers that control the power grid.

It’s not just elections: Russia hacked the US electric grid

And it may be just the first phase of a bigger attack.
By Kelsey Atherton Mar 28, 2018, 8:00am EDT

A huge story about Russian hacking got lost amid all the Trump administration staffing drama and Stormy Daniels news over the past week: On March 15, the US government released a report describing a massive Russian hacking campaign to infiltrate America’s “critical infrastructure” — things like power plants, nuclear generators, and water facilities.

The joint report from the FBI and Department of Homeland Security claims that Russian hackers gained access to computers across the targeted industries and collected sensitive data including passwords, logins, and information about energy generation. While the report doesn’t specify any identifiable sabotage, the intrusion could set up future attacks that do more than just record observations.

The day after the report was released, Energy Secretary Rick Perry told lawmakers at an appropriations hearing that cyberattacks are “literally happening hundreds of thousands of times a day,” and warned that the Department of Energy needs an “office of cybersecurity and emergency response” in order to be prepared for threats like this in the future.

This report is a big deal: It’s the first time the US government has publicly blamed Russia’s government for attacks on energy infrastructure. Explicitly pinning the attack on the Kremlin means that rather than targeting the hackers as individuals, the United States can now respond against Russia as a whole.

More: https://www.vox.com/world/2018/3/28/17170612/russia-hacking-us-power-grid-nuclear-plants

[rzemanfl]

7. I think taking the power grid down would be too obvious for Putin

unless all else failed. People would die, not that he'd care, but it wouldn't suit his purpose.

[Buckeyeblue]

11. Bringing down the power grid would cut us off from each other.

It would turn us into a third world country. There would be mass panic. Disinformation would spread like wildfire.

Fortunately there are many power grids. I don't think they could all be taken down

[Maru Kitteh]

30. He doesn't have to take them all down, does he. Just like he cherry-picked, targeted

very small, very specific but extremely strategic districts in 2016 - a similar effort could produce precisely the results he desires in 2020.

[Haggis for Breakfast]

24. And do it without firing a bullet, launching a bomb or killing anyone.

[rzemanfl]

28. It would kill people who rely on electricity for life support, folks at intersections when

the power went out, that sort of thing.

[Golden Raisin]

8. Highly recommended book on this subject:

"Lights Out" by Ted Koppel. All about our vulnerability and unpreparedness to cyber/electrical/grid/infrastructure attack (and not just in time or specifically for an election, but anytime as an act of cyber warfare.) Meticulously researched and scary as Hell.

[erronis]

22. Thanks for the reference - I'll give it a read online if I can find it.

https://ottawa.bibliocommons.com/item/show/922810026

Imagine a blackout lasting not days, but weeks or months. Tens of millions of people over several states are affected. For those without access to a generator, there is no running water, no sewage, no refrigeration or light. Food and medical supplies are dwindling. Devices we rely on have gone dark. Banks no longer function, looting is widespread, and law and order are being tested as never before. It isn't just a scenario. A well-designed attack on just one of the nation's three electric power grids could cripple much of our infrastructure--and in the age of cyberwarfare, a laptop has become the only necessary weapon. Several nations hostile to the United States could launch such an assault at any time. In fact, as a former chief scientist of the NSA reveals, China and Russia have already penetrated the grid. And a cybersecurity advisor to President Obama believes that independent actors--from "hacktivists" to terrorists--have the capability as well. It's not a question of if, it's a question of when. And yet, as Koppel makes clear, the federal government, while well prepared for natural disasters, has no plan for the aftermath of an attack on the power grid. In the absence of a government plan, some individuals and communities have taken matters into their own hands. But how, Koppel asks, will ordinary civilians survive? One of our most renowned journalists examines a threat unique to our time and evaluates potential ways to prepare for a catastrophe that is all but inevitable.--Adapted from book jacket.

[Lock him up.]

79. If doing that for a long period would not risk destroying their own economy...

... further down... they would have done it a long time ago...

Today's worldwide markets are too dependent on each other in so many ways that it's too risky to paralize a big chunk of the totality of all of them.

[Tipperary]

9. Oh boy.

[dchill]

31. If you think this is tinfoil...

...you're not paying attention!

[Maru Kitteh]

38. Really? Because you think they haven't effed with our grid?

just curious why you would believe this is some kind of tin-foil scenario.

[USALiberal]

47. Please provide a link! Nt

[Maru Kitteh]

48. Pretty sure you coulda Googled that but

Since you asked nicely:


Russia Hacked US Power Grid
https://www.npr.org/2018/03/23/596044821/russia-hacked-u-s-power-grid-so-what-will-the-trump-administration-do-about-it

(edited because I am tired and cranky. sorry)

[mahina]

10. Turnout

Is the necessary focus so it’s too big to steal.

[pangaia]

14. i fear nothing is too big to steal....

[mahina]

16. Fear is where you lose me.

198 methods of nonviolent resistance

https://www.brandeis.edu/peace-conflict/pdfs/198-methods-non-violent-action.pdf

The Anti-coup

https://www.aeinstein.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/TAC-1.pdf

[klook]

58. Good links - thanks. (nt)

[mahina]

75. You bet.

Gene Sharp was a powerful force for peace. Other great short books of his are at the link too.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

63. Thanks for posting this

So many cool ideas.

[mahina]

76. Definitely. You'll find lots of other good tools for a piece on the side where the anti-coup is list

[triron]

17. Agree

[mahina]

29. First registration

[uponit7771]

55. Digital calculations don't care about turnout humans do, what are we to do about the stolen

... election outside of Congress not certifying it?

[Kurt V.]

15. agree nt

[mcar]

19. I am actively involved in our local Democratic party and Democratic women's club

but I live in a ruby red county. Many of us are talking about how we can take our support and activism to other areas/candidates.

I would go gladly to a place where voters have been purged to help them re-register.

[certainot]

21. except the talk radio stations will have back-up - that is why democrats have to end their

ignorance of talk radio and convince the ad industry that they have to start applying market demand to rw radio advertising - a general total boycott and protests at the universities that support rw radio will convince the ad industry to act preemptively.

when advertisers start heading for the hills the ad industry will have to start screening clients for support for the global warming denial, racism, and lies - and few will

[erronis]

23. The internet is much easier to control and much less obvious. Many won't even notice that their web

searches are bringing up specialized results.

Most don't know that their searches for "fascism" or "trump" or "nazi" are being logged for future actions.

Some may be cut off totally, but it will be much more effective to slowly strangle them - or at least the flow of information (reprocessed.)

[Peacetrain]

25. If I remember correctly I think there are only 11 states that do not have a paper back up of some

type... so not taking care of this is beyond dereliction of duty. and we still have plenty of time to take care of 11 states.. there is no excuse. Granted each state decides how to handle its voting, but we as a nation can demand that some type of paper back up be included. If they want to do it by mail, electronically what ever...that is the states province. But they need to keep a paper back up of the vote. The Russians WILL mess with our system again. They were testing getting into systems in 2016.

[roamer65]

27. If the power grid goes down, then bomb Russia.

[sarisataka]

42. Why else do we have those nukes?

Russia would be the only possible explanation for outages.
If any power goes down let them birds fly

[Jedi Guy]

32. Nah, wouldn't be that blatant. Plausible deniability is still a concern.

Why go loud when he can do it on the down low, like he did before? Much less obvious, much more cost-effective, and it creates long-term chaos and suspicion. Plus, that sort of blatant attack, which would cause pretty severe economic (and other) damage, could very easily be considered an outright act of war, which means now ol' Vlad has NATO breathing down his neck. He's not interested in fighting a war with NATO, methinks.

[AllaN01Bear]

34. i vote by mail. id like all of us to go that way. i have had some rws try to tell me

that my vote by mail dosent count. hogwash.rws put in vote by mail to get around democrats but it blew up in their faces . happy new year du.

[brooklynite]

37. The only thing worse than Conspiracy Theories are lazy ones...

How are power cuts going to affect the election?

[Eliot Rosewater]

41. Really? sigh...I cant think of ONE thing that would work with power grids down.

Nothing.

Nice insult there, calling this a CT...sigh

[brooklynite]

44. An unsupported theory about a conspiracy that MIGHT occur is called a.....

.....In 2008, Hurricane Sandy damaged huge swaths of of the eastern Seaboard, days before the Presidential Election. Care to remind us what happened?

[not_the_one]

46. Wow!

I am truly speechless, which is VERY rare for me...

[greytdemocrat]

50. It is a CT.

I expected more from a DU member
such as yourself.

[uponit7771]

57. Yeah, no way Trump would do or allow something like that 🙄

[Tipperary]

61. For pete's sake, that is not an insult.

[uponit7771]

56. Only thing worse about being called lazy is being called lazy be a lazier thinker

... the machines throughout the process run on electricity, failure at minimum would mean delays where cheating can more easily occur

[brooklynite]

64. So counting paper ballots, which everyone here says is the gold standard for elections...

...is now an excuse for cheating. Got it.

[uponit7771]

68. ?!?! Distraction, paper ballots not the issue here Trump's willingness to do anything is

[brooklynite]

70. Did Trump "do anything" to win the Election in 2018?

Some people give his abilities far too much credit.

[Retrograde]

49. My county recently announced that it's sending mail-in ballots to everyone

for the California presidential primary. They come with a postage-paid envelope; voters can also drop their ballots off at any city hall in the county, or at special drop-off places that will be open for over a week before the election.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

52. Really? Do you have lots and lots of tinfoil available?

This is the kind of bullshit that we really shouldn't see here on DU.

[Tipperary]

54. Thank you.

This thread is really something. “Bomb Russia?” “Let the nukes fly?” Wow.

[uponit7771]

59. Right !! Trump would never try some bull shit like that

[ecstatic]

53. So what now? My concern is what appears to be the lack of concern

from the people who have the power to change and/or make noise about this. Use your megaphones, dammit, and don't let up until the problems/threats are resolved.

[nitpicker]

60. In Northern VA

My county's election day guide has an entire chapter on emergency guidelines.

This includes a section on power outages.

The tablets used to check in voters still would run on battery power.

Once completed, the paper ballots would go into the emergency slot of the ballot box instead of the scanner side.

[ms liberty]

62. Bless your heart. You do enjoy being the voice of doom, don't you?n/t

[cwydro]

65. Lol.

Spot on.

[Kaleva]

66. Most here are probably not prepared for if the power grid goes down for weeks

[lark]

67. Early Voting!

Get your vote counted before the ratfucking gets fully in gear.

[mopinko]

71. not only that, in 16 there were outages in some city precincts.

iirc, both detroit and milwaukee had high volume polling places that went dark.
chicago had long line due to a dirty trick that called off judges. didnt matter here, he was never getting il.
but yeah, lemme see, what states are those 2 cities in?

they wouldnt do it nationwide, but watch for targeted outages, likely in black areas.

a little prep could freak them out. seems like we could take as good a guess as pootie about what precinct to target. have a few generators on hand, and see whose heads explode.

[Gothmog]

72. Steps are being taken

Link to tweet

[Karma13612]

73. If not the power grid, then it will be the

Internet, or more specifically, social media sites.

That is my biggest worry starting even as early as the primaries.

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

74. HERE IN MADISON - not only did DU go down (ie replaced by that hideous graphic of trump with a gun)

Last edited Sun Dec 29, 2019, 10:18 PM - Edit history (1)

but Madisons progressive talk radio station at the time suddenly switched to Christmas music the evening of the election.... and has been an oldies channel ever since. It's owned by clear channel so they can do that.... even though Madison progressive talk radio was said to be the most profitale in the nation.

At the time all I could think was - someone out there must really not want us progressives to be talking amongst ourselves about how fishy the election results were looking in the state of Wisconsin.

It was SO disconcerting to have not one, but two of my main news sources suddenly not be available. If it was just DU, I would just shrug it off as just a random hack. That it was DU AND Wisconsin's main progressive station - that was really disconcerting.

So naturally my worry now is - what are contingency plans for communications this time around?? How else besides internet will we be able to communicate? Perhaps set up local communication channels, go back to the old fashioned phone tree LOL (people pre 1990s will remember that.)

We now have an independently owned progressive talk station in WI, so I'm sure they'll continue broadcasting.... assuming they can.

And therein is my concern - to what lengths would they go to cut off communications.

Everything Ive read about "when societies shut down" mention that the communications and news channels are the first things to go.

[Kablooie]

77. This time Putin will be playing hard ball.

Last time was an experiment to see how he might influence an election.
It worked extremely well and now he has a potential hand in controlling the United States if he can keep Trump in power.
It’s serious now so he will do anything to prevent the government falling into Democratic control.

[Lock him up.]

81. Why would he have let the Blue Wave that impeached his paid puppet...

... happen last year then?

If he really was that powerful (he isn't...), I think he would not have let 6,000,000 more votes for Dems than Russiablicans be counted, no?

[Lock him up.]

80. Report: US Cyber Command took Russian trolls offline during midterms

Report: US Cyber Command took Russian trolls offline during midterms
Measures against Internet Research Agency apparently went beyond sliding into DMs.

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/02/report-us-cyber-command-took-russian-trolls-offline-during-midterms/

My guess is they will be even more "ready" for November 3, two years after.

[Skidmore]

82. Our county uses paper ballots marked with pen or pencil.

They are counted on machines but are readily available for a recount.