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H2O Man

(73,510 posts)
Thu Jan 16, 2020, 12:09 PM Jan 2020

Dr. Jekyll & Robert Hyde

Definition of mobster: a member of a criminal gang.

Definition of mafia: (a) a secret criminal society of Sicily or Italy; (b) a similarly conceived criminal organization in the U.S. Or elsewhere.
Merriam-Webster Dictionary


I do not think any forum members here were surprised by the news about former ambassador Marie Yovanovitch. I could be wrong, of course, though I doubt it. But I do think that lots of Americans are shocked.

Before I talk about this, I'd like to share a short story. A number of my father's thirteen siblings had careers in law enforcement and intelligence. One, a senior investigator in the NYS BCI, was experienced in investigating the mafia. Being a first-generation Irish-American, his specialty was not the Italian mafia, but the Irish mob that infected numerous large cities in the US. I remember listening, from my bedroom door, as he told my father one episode in particular.

He attended a meeting at the top floor of a high-rise. When everyone had arrived, the top man became very serious, and said that they knew for certain that one man there was a cop, and he thought he knew who. The room became very quiet for a moment, before they grabbed some poor bastard, tied rope around his ankles, and let him hang outside from a window to get him to admit his dishonorable role.

I remember my father saying, “Jesus! You must have been scared to death!” “No,” my uncle said, “I was too busy saying 'drop the son-of-a-bitch' to be nervous.” The immoral of this story is that membership in organized crime is a high-risk life style.

I also remember my uncle saying that organized crime depended upon two things: loyalty and keeping your mouth shut. The most successful mobsters in the days of old knew to keep a low profile. The flamboyant John Gotti was the exception to the rule, at a time when organized crime was undergoing significant changes in America.

Now, you can imagine how frustrating it was for my brothers and I – poor, dumb kids from a small farm in the sticks – when almost every time an urban boxing promoter showed serious interest in us, my father had his brothers come and speak to us. We'd say how nice these guys treated us great. Another uncle who was a BCI senior investigator said, “Off course they are. But that changes once you are indebted to them.” This uncle sent one promoter my brother and I hung out ringside at Madison Square Garden for the second Ali vs Frazier bout, to the federal prison. He told us that once you are in debt to these guys, you rarely get out. That's not how they grow their business.

One of Trump's business relationships that stands out to me was when he partnered with Don King to promote top boxing matches in his Atlantic City Casino. In the early 1950s, he began running a bookmaking operation in Cleveland. King had killed two men, one in 1954 and one in 1967. He shot his first victim in the back, and stomped the second to death over a $600 debt. He went to prison.

Upon Don's release in the early 1970s, he began working to promote boxing in Cleveland. In a really short time, he promoted the “Rumble in the Jungle” fight between George Foreman and Muhammad Ali in Zaire. Within years, he was so powerful a promoter that he was able to get a 1983 pardon from Ohio's republican governor James Rhodes. It's not good to have a murder conviction on one's record, if one seeks a license to manage boxers.

In time, King connected with Trump. Lots of King's champions fought in top fights in Trump's casino. Millions of dollars were made, although in at least seven cases, King would later be sued for hia failure to pay his fighters. You can see why Don and Donald got along so well.

This wasn't a one-time relationship to organized crime. We know that Trump dealt with the mob when he hired construction companies for building projects. They were the only group that he paid in full. That was when Michael Cohen was representing Trump. Cohen was introduced to those representing Russian interests in the US. In his post-bankruptcy days, these interests helped Trump access the only bank loans available to him.

It's also known that the Russians actively interfered in the 2016 presidential election. Trump is the only person who denies this. Those Russian interests supporting Trump is the unholy trinity of government, military intelligence, and the mob. They have, through Putin, exercised power over Trump as needed since he took office. There is a significant amount of evidence about this that isn't made public, largely due to its classification. But another stumbling block has been an unwillingness of republicans to look into Trump's corruption.

And how could they? Take, for example, Devin Nunes. Again, forum members knew Nunes was involved in the Ukraine scandal. We didn't need to see Lev Parnas being interviewed by Rachal Maddow to know – as important as that interview was. But the public needs to see it, and the related information being made public. And we all need to know about Robert Hyde.

Trump has been attempting to create an administration based upon the Putin model. In doing so, he has severely damaged the US government domestically and internationally. By using the mob organizational structure, he was able to avoid responsibility for the Trump-Russian scandal. He became emboldened to try the same gig with Ukraine. Trump did his best impression of a tough guy, an act he literally only drops when he interacts with Putin. For Trump is a loud-mouthed, disloyal, petty mobster, who quivers in fear when he encounters Putin. There is a reason.

Now that the true nature of the administration is being exposed, we are witnessing the biggest mafia melt-down of our times. It involves the impeachment trial of the president, and other things being pulled in by Trump's gravitational pull – such as Parnas's criminal case. We will not see the players remaining silent out of loyalty, for that silence can only come from fear of the Russian mob, not the president's operation. Members of that group of fools will be hung out to dry.

Peace,
H2O Man

14 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Dr. Jekyll & Robert Hyde (Original Post) H2O Man Jan 2020 OP
May want to revise that first sentence good sir :) mr_lebowski Jan 2020 #1
Yikes! H2O Man Jan 2020 #2
There's also 3 minor mistakes in the paragraph starting with 'Now' mr_lebowski Jan 2020 #5
Thanks! H2O Man Jan 2020 #6
Totally your choice mate, not AT ALL trying imply anyone is under obligation to make perfect posts mr_lebowski Jan 2020 #10
I'll look again H2O Man Jan 2020 #13
Great OP malaise Jan 2020 #3
I watched H2O Man Jan 2020 #7
Does that make you think that perhaps this outing is approved rurallib Jan 2020 #11
Ithink that H2O Man Jan 2020 #12
The one thing Trump seems to be good at is putting enough space between himself... Dennis Donovan Jan 2020 #4
Right. H2O Man Jan 2020 #8
Thank you soooooo much, H2O Man Upthevibe Jan 2020 #9
Well, thank you! H2O Man Jan 2020 #14
 

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)
1. May want to revise that first sentence good sir :)
Thu Jan 16, 2020, 12:13 PM
Jan 2020

I haven't got past it yet but always enjoy your stuff and it's always very thoughtful and well written, so ... I'm looking forward to it

 

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)
5. There's also 3 minor mistakes in the paragraph starting with 'Now'
Thu Jan 16, 2020, 12:23 PM
Jan 2020

Normally I don't point this out in people's posts but yours are always minor works of art that I can tell you toil over a bit to get perfect ... great points by the way. Pretty clear Trump is in deep w/the Russian mob ... Agreed.

Thanks for the stories you tell, they're always interesting.

H2O Man

(73,510 posts)
6. Thanks!
Thu Jan 16, 2020, 12:36 PM
Jan 2020

There was a time that I was a pretty fair writer, but those days have gone the way of the dinosaurs. I'd do rough drafts, etc. But these days, not so much -- especially when I leave the key board to watch a clip of the news, have new ideas pop into my thick head, and then return to typing without taking the time to focus on what I'm doing. (grin) Most of the nonsense I post here takes 10-12 minutes to complete, as the increasing number of errors I make indicates .....too many ideas flashing through my mind, I suppose. But from this point onward, I'll take the time to read what I am in a hurry to post!

 

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)
10. Totally your choice mate, not AT ALL trying imply anyone is under obligation to make perfect posts
Thu Jan 16, 2020, 12:56 PM
Jan 2020

It just seems ... out of place to me in YOUR posts, when there's minor mistakes ... cause they're always like 99.9% perfect grammar and spelling and all that. So, I made some assumptions about your intent and concluded you'd probably care enough to make them 100% correct.

But of course, your call, mate!

Again, I look forward to your posts when I see 'em, for real. Thanks again

Also, you're still a much more than 'fair' writer my friend.

H2O Man

(73,510 posts)
13. I'll look again
Thu Jan 16, 2020, 01:12 PM
Jan 2020

when I get home later today. I'm currently distracted, not by the tv, but preparing for my second medical appointment in three days. I can distract most doctors by focusing on politics the moment they come through the door, but the one today doesn't fall for that. She's tough! And her sense of humor is almost as disturbed as my own.

It's been almost two years since the head injury. The specialist for that tells me that it takes a good 24 months to see how much I'll recover. Hence, I'm preparing to undertake a serious writing project soon. I'll task my son with the editing!

H2O Man

(73,510 posts)
7. I watched
Thu Jan 16, 2020, 12:39 PM
Jan 2020

and the re-watched Rachel's intense interview a half-dozen times. Journalism at its finest! I suspect that Lev will rat out any American, but will continue to carefully avoid those fellows in Russia that are taking pleasure in the growing conflict in the USA.

rurallib

(62,387 posts)
11. Does that make you think that perhaps this outing is approved
Thu Jan 16, 2020, 12:57 PM
Jan 2020

perhaps even pushed by Russia and Putin because Trump is no longer useful?

H2O Man

(73,510 posts)
12. Ithink that
Thu Jan 16, 2020, 01:04 PM
Jan 2020

besides disrupting the US elections, the primary Russian goal with Trump was hoping to repeal the Magnitsky Act. And it seems pretty clear that Trump intended to do just that when he first took office. But the FBI investigation made Trump hold off on that, and he hasn't had the juice to do it since -- though he definitely will if he gets a second term.

So I agree with you .....Lev wouldn't make this bold a move if he hadn't run it by his masters. And those masters now recognize that Trump's "value" at this point is only further dividing America -- which, not coincidentally, is the only way he might get that second term, and repeal Magnitsky.

Good call on your part. Very good call.

Dennis Donovan

(18,770 posts)
4. The one thing Trump seems to be good at is putting enough space between himself...
Thu Jan 16, 2020, 12:23 PM
Jan 2020

...and those who do his dirty deeds. With one exception; Rudy, who himself lacks that very skill of cushioning himself from his button men.

Trump trusting Rudy with this Ukraine task will prove to be the biggest blunder of his life (and will make his AC Taj Mahal project look brilliant, by comparison ).

H2O Man

(73,510 posts)
8. Right.
Thu Jan 16, 2020, 12:44 PM
Jan 2020

Trump learned that "skill" from his relationship with Roy Cohn. Michael Cohen testified about how those closest to Trump knew he would not give direct orders to bend or break the law, but that everyone knew exactly what he was saying he wanted done.

It's odd that someone as paranoid as Trump would "hire" Rudy. Speculation on my part, but I think that the two of them try to reinforce the shared delusion that they are still in their primes.

H2O Man

(73,510 posts)
14. Well, thank you!
Thu Jan 16, 2020, 01:17 PM
Jan 2020

I wrote this last night, hoping it might provide a vehicle for understanding some of the dynamics we are watching unfold. Then I went back and forth on deciding if it was worth posting. I delayed that decision until this morning, when I was having a cup of coffee.

Lev reminds me of a boxer my brothers and I knew back in the day. Besides boxing, he worked for a promoter who used muscle to break union strikes. I remember my brother showing me a newspaper article one day, about the police finding the guy's body in a ditch, having been shot numerous times.

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